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Does Mathematical Innumeracy foster superstitions and support the belief in them?

Topic closed. 122 replies. Last post 6 years ago by Delta Draw.

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Does Mathematical Innumeracy foster superstitions and support the belief in them?

Yes [ 9 ]  [45.00%]
No [ 11 ]  [55.00%]
Total Valid Votes [ 20 ]  
Discarded Votes [ 4 ]  
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Posted: May 24, 2011, 2:24 pm - IP Logged

also in 1320 nobody knew what a bacteria was...if you was to carry a cell phone to the year 1320 what they will think it was...a car oh my gosh what is that..is that a horse...

you took a laser to the year 1920 what they will think it is...a rod i dont know...

thats why i said that experiments need to be repeted millions of times...in the many repetitions it might lead to an accident that could lead to another breakthrough or invention of a different kind...like it has happened in the past...

there is a lot about the human cell that mankind doesnt know...example, why someone eats healthily as much as they like and someone eats all they like and the person who eats healthy passes away before the other person...it happens all the time...

Pumpi:  You've mentioned on other threads that you've based some of your posts on concepts taken from math textbooks, so I assume you've got a working knowledge of math at one level or another.  And you've said you're also superstitious, though you didn't elaborate on what precise brands of superstition you prefer.

But the fact you are the only one posting on this thread to have confessed to being superstitious, and there's at least a hint you have some understanding or command of the use of math, maybe you can provide an answer to the original question posed by the thread.

From your own experience and self-awareness would you say your background in math has made you more prone to superstition, or less prone?

Do the particular superstitions you subscribe to influence your lottery play insofar as frequency of play, amount played, or whether you buy a quickpick, pick some other way, or try a system you've seen discussed on an LP forum?

Do you think if you acquired an advanced degree in math [assuming you don't already have one] it would cause you to re-think your superstitions of choice?

You're in a unique position to clear up some of these questions because you're the only one who's admitted to having any superstitions.


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    Posted: May 24, 2011, 3:21 pm - IP Logged

    "Mathematical Innumeracy... hmmm...  Is there some other kind?"

    I'll bet you a cold ice tea someone wishes they had said "does innumeracy foster superstition...yadda yadda"!

    Don't you think it's more likely that Delta Draw, observing that most of his detractors have a lot of trouble differentiating between:

    you're        vs  your

    to            vs  too

    then          vs  than

    there         vs  their  vs  they're

    intellegence  vs  intelligence

    ect.          vs  etc.

    and on, and on, and on...

    ...he just assumed the prudent course was to ensure there would be no chance that one of them would confuse innumeracy with innumerable, innumeration(sic), enumeration, or who knows what?  Big Smile

      rdgrnr's avatar - walt
      Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
      United States
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      Posted: May 24, 2011, 4:25 pm - IP Logged

      Don't you think it's more likely that Delta Draw, observing that most of his detractors have a lot of trouble differentiating between:

      you're        vs  your

      to            vs  too

      then          vs  than

      there         vs  their  vs  they're

      intellegence  vs  intelligence

      ect.          vs  etc.

      and on, and on, and on...

      ...he just assumed the prudent course was to ensure there would be no chance that one of them would confuse innumeracy with innumerable, innumeration(sic), enumeration, or who knows what?  Big Smile

      Actually, I think not.

      He/she has his/her own problems with the like.

      In the very same paragraph in which he/she corrects RL's spelling of a word, he/she has two words misspelled.

      One appears to be a typo but the other I've seen him/her misspell on previous occasions.

      He/she is wont to put an "a" in clever, thereby making it a "cleaver" which we all know is a meat cutting tool.

       

      Personally, I don't find this disconcerting at all unless it's in the context of presuming to correct someone else's shortcomings in a personally insulting and condescending manner while guilty of the same. 

       

      Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye...


                                                   
                           
                                               

       

       

       

       

                                                                                                         

      "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                  --Edmund Burke

       

       

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        Honduras
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        Posted: May 24, 2011, 4:35 pm - IP Logged

        Pumpi:  You've mentioned on other threads that you've based some of your posts on concepts taken from math textbooks, so I assume you've got a working knowledge of math at one level or another.  And you've said you're also superstitious, though you didn't elaborate on what precise brands of superstition you prefer.

        But the fact you are the only one posting on this thread to have confessed to being superstitious, and there's at least a hint you have some understanding or command of the use of math, maybe you can provide an answer to the original question posed by the thread.

        From your own experience and self-awareness would you say your background in math has made you more prone to superstition, or less prone?

        Do the particular superstitions you subscribe to influence your lottery play insofar as frequency of play, amount played, or whether you buy a quickpick, pick some other way, or try a system you've seen discussed on an LP forum?

        Do you think if you acquired an advanced degree in math [assuming you don't already have one] it would cause you to re-think your superstitions of choice?

        You're in a unique position to clear up some of these questions because you're the only one who's admitted to having any superstitions.

        i think everyone in the world is superstititious but to what degree should be the question...

        ive heard before on tv that education or a high level of education takes away or should take away your superstitious beliefs, thats to some degree...you see some superstitions are tied to spirits or the after life, others to folklore and history traditions...

        what i dont understand also about superstitions is why they are Globally localized a particular case occurs only in some countries or regions and not in others, why is that i though spirits could travel at will anywhere they want...

        i am superstitious but to a low degree...to talk about superstition is to talk about fashion or the letters of a book there is so many of them, like 100,000 in 1 or 2 continent alone...

        i think science and math should welcome superstitions but only the ones from ghosts...but yeah is a predicament because they also can clutter your mind and disturb in your work...

        also if you look at the sci-fi channel and science fiction books they do have superstitions and a lot...

        Isaac newton you could say he was superstitious for he believe in alchemist and was astrologer and look at what he produce...i will say all of the renaissance and forward up to 1925 mathematician and scientists believe in some superstitions...in a lot of superstitions...

        but you know another reason why scientist should believe in superstitions to some degree because even Einsteins and modern physicists are telling you and have proven mathematically that other dimensions exists NOTTT NECESSARILLY WITH EARTHHHHHH PHYSICS LAWWWSSS....

        modern physicists have also said that in some parts of our universe the laws of physics could be a little different...

        and yes i know why our planet is that special...

        tell mathematicians and scientist that the cell when you look at it through a microscope is hold together by the Earth gravity too [waves] and the laws of gravity it doesnt have GLUE holding it together...

        and the reason why i dont believe in too much superstitions is because if i started they will never end...Have you read your old folklore and urband legendS story of your state/country is a darn huge book and i am sure there are a couple of those in your state...JUSSSST YOUR STATTTE...

        The Forex trades: 1.6 Trillion dollars EVERY day, that´s more than the GDP of the Carribbean Central America, COMBINED. Enough to feed every crook out there for centuries...To all Geniuses & Powers Countries of the World the Planet needs breakthroughs in all Medicine, Veterinary, Biology related fields, Psychology, Population Psychology/Sociology..They need to genetically ingeneer new plants species/types to give more variety of plants and thus have more resources for combating diseases¨


         


         


         

         


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          Kentucky
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          Posted: May 24, 2011, 4:52 pm - IP Logged

          jimmy: "Don't you think it's more likely that Delta Draw, observing that most of his detractors have a lot of trouble differentiating between:"

          It's none of my business if he calls himself Catwoman so I won't ask why you think homophones are important to this discussion.

          You still can't give me a mathematical reason why 10 to 1 odds are generous when a system needs to show a 20,000.02% profit. This is the Mathematics Forum not grammar forum.

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            Honduras
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            Posted: May 24, 2011, 4:58 pm - IP Logged

            i think everyone in the world is superstititious but to what degree should be the question...

            ive heard before on tv that education or a high level of education takes away or should take away your superstitious beliefs, thats to some degree...you see some superstitions are tied to spirits or the after life, others to folklore and history traditions...

            what i dont understand also about superstitions is why they are Globally localized a particular case occurs only in some countries or regions and not in others, why is that i though spirits could travel at will anywhere they want...

            i am superstitious but to a low degree...to talk about superstition is to talk about fashion or the letters of a book there is so many of them, like 100,000 in 1 or 2 continent alone...

            i think science and math should welcome superstitions but only the ones from ghosts...but yeah is a predicament because they also can clutter your mind and disturb in your work...

            also if you look at the sci-fi channel and science fiction books they do have superstitions and a lot...

            Isaac newton you could say he was superstitious for he believe in alchemist and was astrologer and look at what he produce...i will say all of the renaissance and forward up to 1925 mathematician and scientists believe in some superstitions...in a lot of superstitions...

            but you know another reason why scientist should believe in superstitions to some degree because even Einsteins and modern physicists are telling you and have proven mathematically that other dimensions exists NOTTT NECESSARILLY WITH EARTHHHHHH PHYSICS LAWWWSSS....

            modern physicists have also said that in some parts of our universe the laws of physics could be a little different...

            and yes i know why our planet is that special...

            tell mathematicians and scientist that the cell when you look at it through a microscope is hold together by the Earth gravity too [waves] and the laws of gravity it doesnt have GLUE holding it together...

            and the reason why i dont believe in too much superstitions is because if i started they will never end...Have you read your old folklore and urband legendS story of your state/country is a darn huge book and i am sure there are a couple of those in your state...JUSSSST YOUR STATTTE...

            but i am not going to lie to you, this world is so UPSIDED DOWN IS SUCH A JUMBLE such a mess because of the different beliefs people have....is like dividing every county in the world into a different language...

            The Forex trades: 1.6 Trillion dollars EVERY day, that´s more than the GDP of the Carribbean Central America, COMBINED. Enough to feed every crook out there for centuries...To all Geniuses & Powers Countries of the World the Planet needs breakthroughs in all Medicine, Veterinary, Biology related fields, Psychology, Population Psychology/Sociology..They need to genetically ingeneer new plants species/types to give more variety of plants and thus have more resources for combating diseases¨


             


             


             

             



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              Posted: May 24, 2011, 5:14 pm - IP Logged

              Actually, I think not.

              He/she has his/her own problems with the like.

              In the very same paragraph in which he/she corrects RL's spelling of a word, he/she has two words misspelled.

              One appears to be a typo but the other I've seen him/her misspell on previous occasions.

              He/she is wont to put an "a" in clever, thereby making it a "cleaver" which we all know is a meat cutting tool.

               

              Personally, I don't find this disconcerting at all unless it's in the context of presuming to correct someone else's shortcomings in a personally insulting and condescending manner while guilty of the same. 

               

              Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye...

              One of Delta Draw's points you are helping to make here is that serious attempts to focus on math or science here are thwarted through redirection.  You're correct in that Innumeracy is the subject here, not Grammar. 

              Unfortunately, the problems here go deeper than this.  Up until a few minutes ago I was working on a reply to one of RL's posts wherein I made a case that he has recently acquired a "ghost writer."  When I finally hit the "submit" button, I got an error message and soon discovered that RL's post had disappeared!  Fortunately, I saved a copy of his post, which I had spell checked and pointed out that his writing is not indicative of someone with a "condition" that causes "butchering" of grammar.  Maybe I've forgotten how to navigate the site; can you find this recent post of RL's?  If it has been "removed" I wonder if RL will "fess up" to being the author?  Do you recognize it rdgrnr?

              ---------------------------------
              Jimmy
               
              When the subject matter tossed into the arena pretends to contain a genuine element of discovery by collecting information from the feedback of others, turns into an attack when a counter viewpoint is made well in my book their scheme has been exposed.   While I view and read the many post I often gauge the sincerity of those who claim to process knowledge the rest of us may be lacking, it is very easy to spot a phony.  Don't piXX down my back and tell me it's raining.  A good measure of the level of education a person has is grammar.  This is by my own standards is a area which I find myself lacking when writing.
               
              I have a condition which manifests its potential as a butchery of proper structure and form.  This I feel leads others to assume I am just another talking head which I am not.  My posting of scores was factual and may seem tacky to many but was an attempt to validate my point of view.  Does this mean I am perfect and beyond reproach, NO.  Many of the topics which fall into this sort of category are made by people gifted with gab and not much more.  People who love to debate often have little intelligence but are well read.  The opinions they express in general are not their own but a collection of viewpoints they have picked up from others and they often use this solicited knowledge as if it were their own.  Lets examine the topic at hand.  Is the lack of math skills the deciding factor in what one allows? My answer is, "I don't know."  To say yes then I pretend to know how everyone makes their decisions.  If I say no then I must know the same.  If I say sometimes it would be the best answer I could give based on direct knowledge gained from a very small sample.  Because of my personal observations I stated that a third choice was needed which lead to an attack by one of these people who pretends to be smart.  The more I learn the more this leads me to think I don't know anything well enough to give a definitive answer.  However if one asks an opinion then I will give them what I think because they asked.   Again how they treat this exchange exposes their true intent.
               
              Mockery, smears, contempt, belittled, ect... all are true signs of what a person's goal is.  Fighting fire with fire may work for forest fires but has no use in these exchanges which even I have been guilty of.  Those who think math can solve all our problems are wrong in my opinion and those who think all problems are caused by lack of math skills I think the same way. It's just not true.  Most don't want to understand they want to force their understanding on others having judged what the other person understands as being fallacious.  What person who truly understands the odds for a PB jackpot would invest a dollar to win it.  We all have our fallacies.  So I would ask whose fallacies are most fallacious the one who does it blindly or the one who knows but plays anyway.
               
              PS. intelligence cannot be learned from a book, knowledge however can.
               
              RL
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                Posted: May 24, 2011, 5:24 pm - IP Logged

                i think everyone in the world is superstititious but to what degree should be the question...

                ive heard before on tv that education or a high level of education takes away or should take away your superstitious beliefs, thats to some degree...you see some superstitions are tied to spirits or the after life, others to folklore and history traditions...

                what i dont understand also about superstitions is why they are Globally localized a particular case occurs only in some countries or regions and not in others, why is that i though spirits could travel at will anywhere they want...

                i am superstitious but to a low degree...to talk about superstition is to talk about fashion or the letters of a book there is so many of them, like 100,000 in 1 or 2 continent alone...

                i think science and math should welcome superstitions but only the ones from ghosts...but yeah is a predicament because they also can clutter your mind and disturb in your work...

                also if you look at the sci-fi channel and science fiction books they do have superstitions and a lot...

                Isaac newton you could say he was superstitious for he believe in alchemist and was astrologer and look at what he produce...i will say all of the renaissance and forward up to 1925 mathematician and scientists believe in some superstitions...in a lot of superstitions...

                but you know another reason why scientist should believe in superstitions to some degree because even Einsteins and modern physicists are telling you and have proven mathematically that other dimensions exists NOTTT NECESSARILLY WITH EARTHHHHHH PHYSICS LAWWWSSS....

                modern physicists have also said that in some parts of our universe the laws of physics could be a little different...

                and yes i know why our planet is that special...

                tell mathematicians and scientist that the cell when you look at it through a microscope is hold together by the Earth gravity too [waves] and the laws of gravity it doesnt have GLUE holding it together...

                and the reason why i dont believe in too much superstitions is because if i started they will never end...Have you read your old folklore and urband legendS story of your state/country is a darn huge book and i am sure there are a couple of those in your state...JUSSSST YOUR STATTTE...

                Hi Pumpi:  Thanks for the reply.  I suspect a century from now if things remain intact science will be laughing at science and medicine of today much the way the science community jokes about those of earlier centuries.  Practices such as bleeding patients weren't that long ago in passing from the vogue.  And a lot of top scientists, one of them considered the leading scientist of his time, believed heavier than air manned flight was impossible.  One of them made a considerable, smug public and highly publicized pronouncement saying so a few months before the bicycle repairmen made their first flight.  If they'd had a modern FAA copy of "Theory of Flight" they'd have called it superstition, most likely.

                About the same time a consortium of international scientists pronounced that science had it pretty well wrapped up in scientific matters, that all they had to do now was tie up a few loose ends.

                Times have changed and a lot has happened since then, but the general run of scientists [not the ones actually doing science - the ones who study the work of those who do science and say it back and forth to one another as though they'd done it themselves] hasn't changed. 

                Science is still observation, formulation of theory, testing theory, revising theory as a result of testing, re-testing.  It isn't reading books about the accomplishments and discoveries of people [including the Wright brothers] who actually did science, no matter how many, savoring and memorizing it, and saying it to other people under the disguise of being a scientist.

                I'd personally lean to the view that superstition is the concrete belief in the absolute truth of assertions by anyone, scientists, mystics, whomever, in matters outside the range of our own experiences.

                By that definition math is superstition-neutral, as nearly as it can be.

                Thanks for your observations and comments in your reply.

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                  Posted: May 24, 2011, 5:37 pm - IP Logged

                  but i am not going to lie to you, this world is so UPSIDED DOWN IS SUCH A JUMBLE such a mess because of the different beliefs people have....is like dividing every county in the world into a different language...

                  It's been an upside down jumble a long while, Pumpi.  Maybe longer than they've had different beliefs.

                  But as things pertain to math, lotteries, buying lottery tickets, working on lottery systems by various methods and based on countless premises, it is definitely, definitely, definitely

                  surprising to see the level of rancor, venom, poison, condescension, smugness, rudeness, and general acrimony revealing itself within the vessels containing differing viewpoints.

                  The issue of system players and quick pick buyers would appear to any disinterested observer to be a fairly safe subject.

                  Math and superstitions can't compete with religions involving how a person buys tickets for inspiring rhetorical bloodshed.


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                    Posted: May 24, 2011, 5:43 pm - IP Logged

                    It's been an upside down jumble a long while, Pumpi.  Maybe longer than they've had different beliefs.

                    But as things pertain to math, lotteries, buying lottery tickets, working on lottery systems by various methods and based on countless premises, it is definitely, definitely, definitely

                    surprising to see the level of rancor, venom, poison, condescension, smugness, rudeness, and general acrimony revealing itself within the vessels containing differing viewpoints.

                    The issue of system players and quick pick buyers would appear to any disinterested observer to be a fairly safe subject.

                    Math and superstitions can't compete with religions involving how a person buys tickets for inspiring rhetorical bloodshed.

                    It's when the system play proponents have their income stream threatened that the level of rancor, venom, poison, condescension, smugness, rudeness, and general acrimony REALLY gets into gear, doesn't it?

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                      Posted: May 24, 2011, 5:49 pm - IP Logged

                      This thread probably actually belongs in the Mystical Forum.  Probably a lot more people posting there have dual familiarity with math and the range of subjects included in the word, 'superstition' than do the posters on the math forum. 

                      It's been stated repeatedly by the person who began the thread that the people who post on the math forum don't know anything about math.  It hasn't been said, but probably is true also that the people who post here don't know as much about superstition as they probably need to in order to discuss the subject on an intelligent level.

                      A thread about superstitions on the math forum seem to have made an emergency landing at the wrong airfield.


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                        Posted: May 24, 2011, 5:56 pm - IP Logged

                        This thread probably actually belongs in the Mystical Forum.  Probably a lot more people posting there have dual familiarity with math and the range of subjects included in the word, 'superstition' than do the posters on the math forum. 

                        It's been stated repeatedly by the person who began the thread that the people who post on the math forum don't know anything about math.  It hasn't been said, but probably is true also that the people who post here don't know as much about superstition as they probably need to in order to discuss the subject on an intelligent level.

                        A thread about superstitions on the math forum seem to have made an emergency landing at the wrong airfield.

                        "A thread about superstitions on the math forum seem to have made an emergency landing at the wrong airfield."

                        And undoubtedly, the more people you can convince that this is true, the more money you will make...

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                          Honduras
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                          Posted: May 24, 2011, 6:14 pm - IP Logged

                          josephus the part where you said:

                          Times have changed and a lot has happened since then, but the general run of scientists [not the ones actually doing science - the ones who study the work of those who do science and say it back and forth to one another as though they'd done it themselves] hasn't changed.

                          remember that the scientific Method states that an experiment and studies must be conducted many times not just 1 time [it doesnt say how many] as proof and because sometimes times change or the matter been studies experimented might changed like a bug who changed to a superbug [in 5,000 years humans could change internally, the global population could get taller or the globe could turn caucasian, is just some example and the experiments you did before you will have to do them again...

                          so if you began repeating the experiment you might refer to the scientist who did the first experiment or propose the experiment you might referr about him/her several times...

                          when they were cloning the first time they didnt succeed until the 700th and something time....

                          someone said once, there arent experiments but quests...if you proved something and someone else does your experiment 300 times and gets your results or fails then that proves that there is 300 times way of not doing it or 300 times proofs that the other way is wrong/insufficient, ect...is in the scientific Method...

                          dont want to talk more to get off the subject..


                          The Forex trades: 1.6 Trillion dollars EVERY day, that´s more than the GDP of the Carribbean Central America, COMBINED. Enough to feed every crook out there for centuries...To all Geniuses & Powers Countries of the World the Planet needs breakthroughs in all Medicine, Veterinary, Biology related fields, Psychology, Population Psychology/Sociology..They need to genetically ingeneer new plants species/types to give more variety of plants and thus have more resources for combating diseases¨


                           


                           


                           

                           


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                            Honduras
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                            Posted: May 24, 2011, 6:26 pm - IP Logged

                            josephus the part where you said:

                            Times have changed and a lot has happened since then, but the general run of scientists [not the ones actually doing science - the ones who study the work of those who do science and say it back and forth to one another as though they'd done it themselves] hasn't changed.

                            remember that the scientific Method states that an experiment and studies must be conducted many times not just 1 time [it doesnt say how many] as proof and because sometimes times change or the matter been studies experimented might changed like a bug who changed to a superbug [in 5,000 years humans could change internally, the global population could get taller or the globe could turn caucasian, is just some example and the experiments you did before you will have to do them again...

                            so if you began repeating the experiment you might refer to the scientist who did the first experiment or propose the experiment you might referr about him/her several times...

                            when they were cloning the first time they didnt succeed until the 700th and something time....

                            someone said once, there arent experiments but quests...if you proved something and someone else does your experiment 300 times and gets your results or fails then that proves that there is 300 times way of not doing it or 300 times proofs that the other way is wrong/insufficient, ect...is in the scientific Method...

                            dont want to talk more to get off the subject..


                            something else that is in the scientific method is that it tells you that experiments and studies are not about coming on the headlines saying you cure something and now you want everybody to praise you is about: KNOWLEDGE...is in the scientific method...

                            you know one reason why is about knowledge, because something so stupid that you might find in experiment 120th of the same experiment someone else did years ago well that tiny thing that was stupid might serve as something important or in a breakthrough in another experiment half a world away....that´s how the laser was discovered....

                            The Forex trades: 1.6 Trillion dollars EVERY day, that´s more than the GDP of the Carribbean Central America, COMBINED. Enough to feed every crook out there for centuries...To all Geniuses & Powers Countries of the World the Planet needs breakthroughs in all Medicine, Veterinary, Biology related fields, Psychology, Population Psychology/Sociology..They need to genetically ingeneer new plants species/types to give more variety of plants and thus have more resources for combating diseases¨


                             


                             


                             

                             


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                              Posted: May 24, 2011, 6:28 pm - IP Logged

                              josephus the part where you said:

                              Times have changed and a lot has happened since then, but the general run of scientists [not the ones actually doing science - the ones who study the work of those who do science and say it back and forth to one another as though they'd done it themselves] hasn't changed.

                              remember that the scientific Method states that an experiment and studies must be conducted many times not just 1 time [it doesnt say how many] as proof and because sometimes times change or the matter been studies experimented might changed like a bug who changed to a superbug [in 5,000 years humans could change internally, the global population could get taller or the globe could turn caucasian, is just some example and the experiments you did before you will have to do them again...

                              so if you began repeating the experiment you might refer to the scientist who did the first experiment or propose the experiment you might referr about him/her several times...

                              when they were cloning the first time they didnt succeed until the 700th and something time....

                              someone said once, there arent experiments but quests...if you proved something and someone else does your experiment 300 times and gets your results or fails then that proves that there is 300 times way of not doing it or 300 times proofs that the other way is wrong/insufficient, ect...is in the scientific Method...

                              dont want to talk more to get off the subject..


                              True enough, Pumpi.  Proving doesn't actually happen much in science, contrary to popular belief.  It's almost always as you've said, a wild card in there somewhere, some unanticipated factor, some variable not known to be variable.

                              But that's not what I was referring to.  The ones actually testing theories are a microscopic piece of the community calling itself 'science' and themselves 'scientists'.  High school teachers, as an example, call themselves scientists as a rule.  But they are engaged in teaching the work done by others, not anything done by themselves except as lab demonstrations. 

                              Cloning efforts could probably be more accurately described as engineering.  Applied science, as opposed to science.

                              But overall, I agree with what you've said.

                              But I digressed in what I intended to point out:  Treating theory as truth, or an absolute, is superstition.  As fundamentally superstitious as believing a broken mirror brings seven years of bad luck.  If theory was fact theory would be called something besides theory.