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Does Mathematical Innumeracy foster superstitions and support the belief in them?

Topic closed. 122 replies. Last post 6 years ago by Delta Draw.

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Does Mathematical Innumeracy foster superstitions and support the belief in them?

Yes [ 9 ]  [45.00%]
No [ 11 ]  [55.00%]
Total Valid Votes [ 20 ]  
Discarded Votes [ 4 ]  
RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
mid-Ohio
United States
Member #9
March 24, 2001
19902 Posts
Offline
Posted: May 24, 2011, 6:45 pm - IP Logged

It's when the system play proponents have their income stream threatened that the level of rancor, venom, poison, condescension, smugness, rudeness, and general acrimony REALLY gets into gear, doesn't it?

Where are you getting your ideas about proponents of system play?   How does what others think threaten their income?

 * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
   
             Evil Looking       

    Avatar
    Kentucky
    United States
    Member #32652
    February 14, 2006
    7344 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: May 24, 2011, 7:50 pm - IP Logged

    One of Delta Draw's points you are helping to make here is that serious attempts to focus on math or science here are thwarted through redirection.  You're correct in that Innumeracy is the subject here, not Grammar. 

    Unfortunately, the problems here go deeper than this.  Up until a few minutes ago I was working on a reply to one of RL's posts wherein I made a case that he has recently acquired a "ghost writer."  When I finally hit the "submit" button, I got an error message and soon discovered that RL's post had disappeared!  Fortunately, I saved a copy of his post, which I had spell checked and pointed out that his writing is not indicative of someone with a "condition" that causes "butchering" of grammar.  Maybe I've forgotten how to navigate the site; can you find this recent post of RL's?  If it has been "removed" I wonder if RL will "fess up" to being the author?  Do you recognize it rdgrnr?

    ---------------------------------
    Jimmy
     
    When the subject matter tossed into the arena pretends to contain a genuine element of discovery by collecting information from the feedback of others, turns into an attack when a counter viewpoint is made well in my book their scheme has been exposed.   While I view and read the many post I often gauge the sincerity of those who claim to process knowledge the rest of us may be lacking, it is very easy to spot a phony.  Don't piXX down my back and tell me it's raining.  A good measure of the level of education a person has is grammar.  This is by my own standards is a area which I find myself lacking when writing.
     
    I have a condition which manifests its potential as a butchery of proper structure and form.  This I feel leads others to assume I am just another talking head which I am not.  My posting of scores was factual and may seem tacky to many but was an attempt to validate my point of view.  Does this mean I am perfect and beyond reproach, NO.  Many of the topics which fall into this sort of category are made by people gifted with gab and not much more.  People who love to debate often have little intelligence but are well read.  The opinions they express in general are not their own but a collection of viewpoints they have picked up from others and they often use this solicited knowledge as if it were their own.  Lets examine the topic at hand.  Is the lack of math skills the deciding factor in what one allows? My answer is, "I don't know."  To say yes then I pretend to know how everyone makes their decisions.  If I say no then I must know the same.  If I say sometimes it would be the best answer I could give based on direct knowledge gained from a very small sample.  Because of my personal observations I stated that a third choice was needed which lead to an attack by one of these people who pretends to be smart.  The more I learn the more this leads me to think I don't know anything well enough to give a definitive answer.  However if one asks an opinion then I will give them what I think because they asked.   Again how they treat this exchange exposes their true intent.
     
    Mockery, smears, contempt, belittled, ect... all are true signs of what a person's goal is.  Fighting fire with fire may work for forest fires but has no use in these exchanges which even I have been guilty of.  Those who think math can solve all our problems are wrong in my opinion and those who think all problems are caused by lack of math skills I think the same way. It's just not true.  Most don't want to understand they want to force their understanding on others having judged what the other person understands as being fallacious.  What person who truly understands the odds for a PB jackpot would invest a dollar to win it.  We all have our fallacies.  So I would ask whose fallacies are most fallacious the one who does it blindly or the one who knows but plays anyway.
     
    PS. intelligence cannot be learned from a book, knowledge however can.
     
    RL

    Jimmy: "Up until a few minutes ago I was working on a reply to one of RL's posts wherein I made a case that he has recently acquired a "ghost writer.

    Get a grip; this is a message board forum.

    Jimmy: "When I finally hit the "submit" button, I got an error message and soon discovered that RL's post had disappeared! Fortunately, I saved a copy of his post, which I had spell checked "

    Maybe RL deleted it, a Moderator did, you imagine it existed, or you're pulling a scam. It really doesn't matter what your point was because the post no longer exists. Chalk it up as more of your time wasted on useless information.

    By the way, this might be a forum ethics violation and even though I usually disagree with you, I'd hate to see you banned.

      RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

      United States
      Member #59354
      March 13, 2008
      4091 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: May 24, 2011, 10:48 pm - IP Logged

      Jimmy: "Up until a few minutes ago I was working on a reply to one of RL's posts wherein I made a case that he has recently acquired a "ghost writer.

      Get a grip; this is a message board forum.

      Jimmy: "When I finally hit the "submit" button, I got an error message and soon discovered that RL's post had disappeared! Fortunately, I saved a copy of his post, which I had spell checked "

      Maybe RL deleted it, a Moderator did, you imagine it existed, or you're pulling a scam. It really doesn't matter what your point was because the post no longer exists. Chalk it up as more of your time wasted on useless information.

      By the way, this might be a forum ethics violation and even though I usually disagree with you, I'd hate to see you banned.

      Jimmy

      Thank you for saving a copy for all to read, and no I did not remove it.   In my defence I admitted to having

      dsylexia which it seems to me that those that would like others to consider how correct their understanding of all

      things is, seem to have read over this statement.  I could write my post using another tool, edit them correcting

      errors in grammar before I copy and paste but I don't.  When you see one of my post it has not undergone this

      type of editing, I don't use spellcheck either because I use my mistakes as a learning tool.   I so often feel like a

      race car with a flat tire but I can live with that.  I really wish you would have saved your counterparts quote where

      it was said that "the best part of me ran down my mothers leg."  I may lack the ability to express things in written

      form or express my views in a manner others can easily understand but rest assured my comprehension is intact.

      I also want you to know that I can see through you like a peice of glass. 

      I believe that Thomas Edison was sent home from school becuse he was too stupid to learn.  Albert Einstein

      was called slow by his teachers.  George Patten had to have his wife rewrite his letters.  Charles Schwab has

      trouble reading and writting, these are just a few that are/were dyslexic.  I have in my life overcome many

      obstacles and have accomplished much in many different fields.  So go ahead and laugh, show the rest who

      may be in doubt the depth of character you possess.  I would also like you to make a copy of this just in case

      it gets deleted if for no other reason you can point out my spelling mistakes.

       

      RL

      Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

      I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

      they are not.  Many great discoveries come while searching for something else

      USAF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Base_Engineer_Emergency_Force

        US Flag Trump / 2016 & 2020  


        United States
        Member #93947
        July 10, 2010
        2180 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: May 24, 2011, 11:20 pm - IP Logged

        Hi Pumpi:  Thanks for the reply.  I suspect a century from now if things remain intact science will be laughing at science and medicine of today much the way the science community jokes about those of earlier centuries.  Practices such as bleeding patients weren't that long ago in passing from the vogue.  And a lot of top scientists, one of them considered the leading scientist of his time, believed heavier than air manned flight was impossible.  One of them made a considerable, smug public and highly publicized pronouncement saying so a few months before the bicycle repairmen made their first flight.  If they'd had a modern FAA copy of "Theory of Flight" they'd have called it superstition, most likely.

        About the same time a consortium of international scientists pronounced that science had it pretty well wrapped up in scientific matters, that all they had to do now was tie up a few loose ends.

        Times have changed and a lot has happened since then, but the general run of scientists [not the ones actually doing science - the ones who study the work of those who do science and say it back and forth to one another as though they'd done it themselves] hasn't changed. 

        Science is still observation, formulation of theory, testing theory, revising theory as a result of testing, re-testing.  It isn't reading books about the accomplishments and discoveries of people [including the Wright brothers] who actually did science, no matter how many, savoring and memorizing it, and saying it to other people under the disguise of being a scientist.

        I'd personally lean to the view that superstition is the concrete belief in the absolute truth of assertions by anyone, scientists, mystics, whomever, in matters outside the range of our own experiences.

        By that definition math is superstition-neutral, as nearly as it can be.

        Thanks for your observations and comments in your reply.

        "Times have changed and a lot has happened since then, but the general run of scientists [not the ones actually doing science - the ones who study the work of those who do science and say it back and forth to one another as though they'd done it themselves] hasn't changed."

        This is just one example of your obvious disdain for those of us who work, or have worked, in the sciences.  May I ask just what important contributions you are making, or have made, to the advancement of civilization?  All we know about you is that you recently decided to donate to the members of LotteryPost your far reaching knowledge of LotteryPost from your refuge on an unpaved road in Texas.  Are you doing original scientific research out there in the boondocks, so that some day, the rest of us will have even MORE to pass around to each other?  Or, are you writing a book about the foibles of the posters at LotteryPost?  If you've been taking notes, you surely have sufficient material for at least a term paper.  Ever since you arrived, when you haven't been chastising or trying to discredit people like me, you've been popping up everywhere, acting as a self appointed cheerleader, counseling, encouraging, and inspiring.  There doesn't appear to be a post obtuse, arcane, or silly enough to receive criticism from you - unless of course, it attempts to deliver some of that unoriginal math and science you so abhor to the apparent "protected class" residing here, the system players!

        So, just what is it that you do, Joey?



          United States
          Member #93947
          July 10, 2010
          2180 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: May 24, 2011, 11:40 pm - IP Logged

          RL-RANDOMLOGIC,

          "Thank you for saving a copy for all to read, and no I did not remove it.   In my defence I admitted to having..."

          Would you please post a link; I can't find it!

          BTW, I was not belittling your writing but suggesting that all it needed was spell-checked and if read aloud gave no hint that the author could not "sound out" words or sentences.  My critique is to accuse you of claiming a disability that you show little evidence of having!  Your posting above that I inserted in my reply to rdgnr, if it is NOT the result of collaboration with another member, demonstrates that your English is better than most of what can be found here.  So, what's going on here?

          --Jimmy4164

          "I also want you to know that I can see through you like a peice of glass."

          What is it you think you see?  If it's anything other than what I've told you, then it's wrong.  Seriously, what do you think you see?

            RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

            United States
            Member #59354
            March 13, 2008
            4091 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: May 25, 2011, 12:35 am - IP Logged

            The man in this link was the most intelligent person, I have ever known or work with. Never once did I hear him talk down to someone or belittle someone, due to lack of education or understanding the point, he was addressing.

            http://www.gfy.ku.dk/~iag/newslett/news7606.htm

            CB

            I agree but I would not consider him a mathematician. There are many people who have high math aptitudes

            and I am not refurring to these people.  The mathematicians that I have known had jobs where all they do is

            math.  Many of these people were like hired guns and went from project to project and the ones I knew worked

            in aeronautics and areospace fields.

            They were always stressed out and and to stay totally focused.  Once my uncle had retired he became quite 

            humorous and spent the rest of his life working on projects that had no real value.  He became almost childlike

            and a bit of a prankster.  He built several math based optical illusion devices as a hobby .  I remember a device

            he built that seemed to have many curved surfaces.  I was fine until I picked it up and looked it over, not a single

            curved surface anywhere.   

            RL

            Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

            I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

            they are not.  Many great discoveries come while searching for something else

            USAF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Base_Engineer_Emergency_Force

              US Flag Trump / 2016 & 2020  


              United States
              Member #81843
              October 31, 2009
              856 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: May 25, 2011, 1:18 am - IP Logged

              RL-RANDOMLOGIC,

              "Thank you for saving a copy for all to read, and no I did not remove it.   In my defence I admitted to having..."

              Would you please post a link; I can't find it!

              BTW, I was not belittling your writing but suggesting that all it needed was spell-checked and if read aloud gave no hint that the author could not "sound out" words or sentences.  My critique is to accuse you of claiming a disability that you show little evidence of having!  Your posting above that I inserted in my reply to rdgnr, if it is NOT the result of collaboration with another member, demonstrates that your English is better than most of what can be found here.  So, what's going on here?

              --Jimmy4164

              "I also want you to know that I can see through you like a peice of glass."

              What is it you think you see?  If it's anything other than what I've told you, then it's wrong.  Seriously, what do you think you see?

              Much has been deleted and edited.

              DD

                RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

                United States
                Member #59354
                March 13, 2008
                4091 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: May 25, 2011, 5:15 am - IP Logged

                RL-RANDOMLOGIC,

                "Thank you for saving a copy for all to read, and no I did not remove it.   In my defence I admitted to having..."

                Would you please post a link; I can't find it!

                BTW, I was not belittling your writing but suggesting that all it needed was spell-checked and if read aloud gave no hint that the author could not "sound out" words or sentences.  My critique is to accuse you of claiming a disability that you show little evidence of having!  Your posting above that I inserted in my reply to rdgnr, if it is NOT the result of collaboration with another member, demonstrates that your English is better than most of what can be found here.  So, what's going on here?

                --Jimmy4164

                "I also want you to know that I can see through you like a peice of glass."

                What is it you think you see?  If it's anything other than what I've told you, then it's wrong.  Seriously, what do you think you see?

                Jimmy

                Many of my post take me an hour or more to write.  I have with instruction learned to conceal what I consider

                my biggest weakness which in my eyes places me just above illiteracy.  I was found to be dyslexic upon entry

                into the airforce where I received help.  I went from c's and d's in HS math and english to making the Deans List

                my first semester in college.  Most of the writting skills found here will fall around the 8th to 9th grade level.

                Some may just be being lazy and not care which is fine with me because I don't stick out as bad.  The vocabulary

                a person uses is also a good measure to the level of education.  Here I suffer the most because I have almost

                no ability to connect sounds and letters.  The more uncommon the word and the less I see it used the harder it

                is for me to spell so I avoid using them.  I don't have this problem when reading except when reading aloud.  I

                often use different spellings of the same word hoping that others will think the incorrect one is a typo.  When I

                first tested for dyslexica I fell into the severely dyslexic catagory so your comment above means much to me.

                     

                What I meant in the second statement was you seem to get off by continuesly insisting that people who play

                the lottery using some sort of system suffer from a fallacy which is rooted in not having the nessary math skills

                or understanding.  Those who do have the math skills then must suffer some sort of psychological disorder by

                trying to out perform the odds.  If a person does come out ahead then they are fooling themselves thinking that

                they somehow had a possitive effect when it was a nothing but  chance.  You futher attempt to endorse your

                beliefs that you are correct by offering a backtest to show that the same results do indeed fall within the expected

                range of chance.  Those who oppose this view are then made to look as though they are self delusional and hard

                headed not wanting to admit they were wrong.  When I say that you are wrong, I am not saying the math is wrong

                I am saying your motives are wrong. 

                 

                Lets say Jack player plays $20.00 QP's twice a week for the last 20 years with an ROI of 32%.   Bill player spends the

                same amount on SP's and has a ROI of 55% for the same peroid.  From this some might say that Bill's SP's were much

                better then Jack's QP's but this may not be correct.  What if one of Bill's SP's accounted for 35% of his total meaning that

                Jack's QP's performed better on average.  Both of these should be considered bad investments and both would have

                faired better if they had not played.  You have stated you play a few bucks a week as a form of entertainment with no

                real expectations and that's a good way to play because you never know you might hit the big one in the very next 

                draw.  I could jump all over your choice from the prespective of ROI and you could defend your choice as being money

                spent for fun.  I think to this point we both agree but this is where we part.  Because I believe I can through a analysis

                of the data improve my play you seem to draw a line in the sand and demand a mathematical provable series of steps

                to that show this can be done.  I offered to post scans of my tickets before my post was locked and over the course

                of nine plays, around 130 total tickets I managed to win around $400.00. Several people got copies of these tickets

                which I could have them confirm this and they would do it but you would still not believe.  For much of the time

                between then and now you have continued to trash my system post and belittle me and for what reason?  I offered

                another method for anyone to use any way they wanted, Gave away many copies of my old dos software, built custom

                apps for several others, spent hours each day answering emails.  Tried to help many people with tips and tricks that

                I had found over the years while all the time having to fight off your attacks.  I have met many good people and picked

                up a few dozen friends even if I never meet them in person.  The odds of winning a lottery place it well into the realm

                of fantasy.   With this in mind what is wrong with a few people getting togeather trying to help each other win.  I am

                getting ready to leave LP for good this time and except for comments and attacks of three people I have enjoyed

                my time here. 

                RL

                Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

                I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

                they are not.  Many great discoveries come while searching for something else

                USAF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Base_Engineer_Emergency_Force

                  US Flag Trump / 2016 & 2020  

                  Avatar

                  United States
                  Member #105312
                  January 29, 2011
                  435 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: May 25, 2011, 7:32 am - IP Logged

                  Jimmy

                  Many of my post take me an hour or more to write.  I have with instruction learned to conceal what I consider

                  my biggest weakness which in my eyes places me just above illiteracy.  I was found to be dyslexic upon entry

                  into the airforce where I received help.  I went from c's and d's in HS math and english to making the Deans List

                  my first semester in college.  Most of the writting skills found here will fall around the 8th to 9th grade level.

                  Some may just be being lazy and not care which is fine with me because I don't stick out as bad.  The vocabulary

                  a person uses is also a good measure to the level of education.  Here I suffer the most because I have almost

                  no ability to connect sounds and letters.  The more uncommon the word and the less I see it used the harder it

                  is for me to spell so I avoid using them.  I don't have this problem when reading except when reading aloud.  I

                  often use different spellings of the same word hoping that others will think the incorrect one is a typo.  When I

                  first tested for dyslexica I fell into the severely dyslexic catagory so your comment above means much to me.

                       

                  What I meant in the second statement was you seem to get off by continuesly insisting that people who play

                  the lottery using some sort of system suffer from a fallacy which is rooted in not having the nessary math skills

                  or understanding.  Those who do have the math skills then must suffer some sort of psychological disorder by

                  trying to out perform the odds.  If a person does come out ahead then they are fooling themselves thinking that

                  they somehow had a possitive effect when it was a nothing but  chance.  You futher attempt to endorse your

                  beliefs that you are correct by offering a backtest to show that the same results do indeed fall within the expected

                  range of chance.  Those who oppose this view are then made to look as though they are self delusional and hard

                  headed not wanting to admit they were wrong.  When I say that you are wrong, I am not saying the math is wrong

                  I am saying your motives are wrong. 

                   

                  Lets say Jack player plays $20.00 QP's twice a week for the last 20 years with an ROI of 32%.   Bill player spends the

                  same amount on SP's and has a ROI of 55% for the same peroid.  From this some might say that Bill's SP's were much

                  better then Jack's QP's but this may not be correct.  What if one of Bill's SP's accounted for 35% of his total meaning that

                  Jack's QP's performed better on average.  Both of these should be considered bad investments and both would have

                  faired better if they had not played.  You have stated you play a few bucks a week as a form of entertainment with no

                  real expectations and that's a good way to play because you never know you might hit the big one in the very next 

                  draw.  I could jump all over your choice from the prespective of ROI and you could defend your choice as being money

                  spent for fun.  I think to this point we both agree but this is where we part.  Because I believe I can through a analysis

                  of the data improve my play you seem to draw a line in the sand and demand a mathematical provable series of steps

                  to that show this can be done.  I offered to post scans of my tickets before my post was locked and over the course

                  of nine plays, around 130 total tickets I managed to win around $400.00. Several people got copies of these tickets

                  which I could have them confirm this and they would do it but you would still not believe.  For much of the time

                  between then and now you have continued to trash my system post and belittle me and for what reason?  I offered

                  another method for anyone to use any way they wanted, Gave away many copies of my old dos software, built custom

                  apps for several others, spent hours each day answering emails.  Tried to help many people with tips and tricks that

                  I had found over the years while all the time having to fight off your attacks.  I have met many good people and picked

                  up a few dozen friends even if I never meet them in person.  The odds of winning a lottery place it well into the realm

                  of fantasy.   With this in mind what is wrong with a few people getting togeather trying to help each other win.  I am

                  getting ready to leave LP for good this time and except for comments and attacks of three people I have enjoyed

                  my time here. 

                  RL

                  Sorry to hear you're planning on leaving, RL.  I've enjoyed your posts.  You'll be missed.

                    Avatar

                    United States
                    Member #105312
                    January 29, 2011
                    435 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: May 25, 2011, 8:04 am - IP Logged

                    "Times have changed and a lot has happened since then, but the general run of scientists [not the ones actually doing science - the ones who study the work of those who do science and say it back and forth to one another as though they'd done it themselves] hasn't changed."

                    This is just one example of your obvious disdain for those of us who work, or have worked, in the sciences.  May I ask just what important contributions you are making, or have made, to the advancement of civilization?  All we know about you is that you recently decided to donate to the members of LotteryPost your far reaching knowledge of LotteryPost from your refuge on an unpaved road in Texas.  Are you doing original scientific research out there in the boondocks, so that some day, the rest of us will have even MORE to pass around to each other?  Or, are you writing a book about the foibles of the posters at LotteryPost?  If you've been taking notes, you surely have sufficient material for at least a term paper.  Ever since you arrived, when you haven't been chastising or trying to discredit people like me, you've been popping up everywhere, acting as a self appointed cheerleader, counseling, encouraging, and inspiring.  There doesn't appear to be a post obtuse, arcane, or silly enough to receive criticism from you - unless of course, it attempts to deliver some of that unoriginal math and science you so abhor to the apparent "protected class" residing here, the system players!

                    So, just what is it that you do, Joey?


                    Hi Jimmy: 

                    I'm just an anonymous stranger on the internet who spent several decades working in close proximity to people a lot like yourself.  Enough years to get an intimate knowledge of everything I needed to know about them.  They weren't a majority among similarly educated and similarly employed people, but most of us working in those environments possessed enough of a piece of it to recognize it in ourselves without being glad of it being there.  But a greater percentage than a person might hope incorporated the whole package of what the rest recognized in ourselves and didn't respect, didn't like, didn't value. 

                    As much as possible most of us did the professional/career equivalents of clicking the 'block this member' button on those sorts.

                    As for what I'm doing now, it's none of your affair, none of your business, nothing you need concern yourself with.  I make no claims about my accomplishments, no claims about what I might accomplish.  I can say with the certainty gained from watching ducks walk and watching ducks talk throughout a life time that whatever I might do and whatever I might yet accomplish, it won't be exceeded and it won't be diminished by anything likely to be done by you, nor by any of your intellectual, emotional, philosophical, spiritual, psychological kinfolk.

                      RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

                      United States
                      Member #59354
                      March 13, 2008
                      4091 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: May 25, 2011, 8:55 am - IP Logged

                      josephus

                      I just finished running analysis on the writing skill levels of several LP posters and hope you don't mind.

                      You rock dude,  Your skill level confirmed my suspicions 12.95 to 13.6 which is about double that of the

                      average posters I tested. 

                      RL

                        Avatar

                        United States
                        Member #105312
                        January 29, 2011
                        435 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: May 25, 2011, 11:19 am - IP Logged

                        josephus

                        I just finished running analysis on the writing skill levels of several LP posters and hope you don't mind.

                        You rock dude,  Your skill level confirmed my suspicions 12.95 to 13.6 which is about double that of the

                        average posters I tested. 

                        RL

                        Luck of the draw, RL.  The gene pool scramble gave you traits, aptitudes, abilities in one direction, gave me different ones, gave everyone else theirs.  What comes easy for me comes with a lot more difficulty for others, and what comes easy for them might be a lot more difficult for me.

                        Whatever we were lucky enough to carry into this life doesn't amount to a virtue.  Just luck, pure and simple.  But we're all lucky in different ways.

                          hennybogan's avatar - DiscoBallGlowing
                          McKinney/Texas
                          United States
                          Member #47363
                          November 1, 2006
                          706 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: May 25, 2011, 11:34 am - IP Logged

                          (http://www.math.temple.edu/~paulos/books.html)

                          INNUMERACY - MATHEMATICAL ILLITERACY AND ITS CONSEQUENCES , Farrar, Straus, and Giroux (Hill and Wang division), 1989.

                          -- INNUMERACY is an examination of some of the consequences in everyday life of mathematical illiteracy. These consequences - confused personal decisions, muddled governmental policies, even an increased susceptibility to pseudoscience - are not as visible as are those of illiteracy or general cultural ignorance. Unlike the latter failings, however, innumeracy often afflicts intelligent, well-educated people, the kind of people who can understand the most complicated of legal discussions, the most nuanced of emotional interchanges, but whose eyes glaze over at the mere mention of a number or a probability. Topics addressed include stock scams, parapsychological claims, medical testing, insurance frauds, sports records, sex discrimination, coincidences and chance encounters.

                          "To combat [innumeracy] John Allen Paulos has concocted the perfect vaccine: this book, which is in many ways better than an entire high school math education! Our society would be unimaginably different if the average person truly understood the ideas in this marvelous and important book. It is probably hopelessly optimistic to dream this way, but I hope that Innumeracy might help launch a revolution in math education that would do for innumeracy what Sabin and Salk did for polio." -- Douglas Hofstadter, author of Godel, Escher, and Bach

                          Beautifully stated Jimmy.  From a purely mathematical point of view, I believe we are all "nuts" for ever playing P3, P4, etc.

                          I love what Albert Einstein said when he was asked how to beat roulette. His reply, "CHEAT!"

                          However, some of the folks here on LP do quite well. But, they observe PATTERNS and not math or statistics.

                          Sure wish Gauss was still alive. He would have the mother of all systems.

                            Ephesians 3:20


                            truecritic's avatar - PirateTreasure
                            Michigan
                            United States
                            Member #22395
                            September 24, 2005
                            1583 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: May 25, 2011, 12:53 pm - IP Logged

                            Jimmy

                            Many of my post take me an hour or more to write.  I have with instruction learned to conceal what I consider

                            my biggest weakness which in my eyes places me just above illiteracy.  I was found to be dyslexic upon entry

                            into the airforce where I received help.  I went from c's and d's in HS math and english to making the Deans List

                            my first semester in college.  Most of the writting skills found here will fall around the 8th to 9th grade level.

                            Some may just be being lazy and not care which is fine with me because I don't stick out as bad.  The vocabulary

                            a person uses is also a good measure to the level of education.  Here I suffer the most because I have almost

                            no ability to connect sounds and letters.  The more uncommon the word and the less I see it used the harder it

                            is for me to spell so I avoid using them.  I don't have this problem when reading except when reading aloud.  I

                            often use different spellings of the same word hoping that others will think the incorrect one is a typo.  When I

                            first tested for dyslexica I fell into the severely dyslexic catagory so your comment above means much to me.

                                 

                            What I meant in the second statement was you seem to get off by continuesly insisting that people who play

                            the lottery using some sort of system suffer from a fallacy which is rooted in not having the nessary math skills

                            or understanding.  Those who do have the math skills then must suffer some sort of psychological disorder by

                            trying to out perform the odds.  If a person does come out ahead then they are fooling themselves thinking that

                            they somehow had a possitive effect when it was a nothing but  chance.  You futher attempt to endorse your

                            beliefs that you are correct by offering a backtest to show that the same results do indeed fall within the expected

                            range of chance.  Those who oppose this view are then made to look as though they are self delusional and hard

                            headed not wanting to admit they were wrong.  When I say that you are wrong, I am not saying the math is wrong

                            I am saying your motives are wrong. 

                             

                            Lets say Jack player plays $20.00 QP's twice a week for the last 20 years with an ROI of 32%.   Bill player spends the

                            same amount on SP's and has a ROI of 55% for the same peroid.  From this some might say that Bill's SP's were much

                            better then Jack's QP's but this may not be correct.  What if one of Bill's SP's accounted for 35% of his total meaning that

                            Jack's QP's performed better on average.  Both of these should be considered bad investments and both would have

                            faired better if they had not played.  You have stated you play a few bucks a week as a form of entertainment with no

                            real expectations and that's a good way to play because you never know you might hit the big one in the very next 

                            draw.  I could jump all over your choice from the prespective of ROI and you could defend your choice as being money

                            spent for fun.  I think to this point we both agree but this is where we part.  Because I believe I can through a analysis

                            of the data improve my play you seem to draw a line in the sand and demand a mathematical provable series of steps

                            to that show this can be done.  I offered to post scans of my tickets before my post was locked and over the course

                            of nine plays, around 130 total tickets I managed to win around $400.00. Several people got copies of these tickets

                            which I could have them confirm this and they would do it but you would still not believe.  For much of the time

                            between then and now you have continued to trash my system post and belittle me and for what reason?  I offered

                            another method for anyone to use any way they wanted, Gave away many copies of my old dos software, built custom

                            apps for several others, spent hours each day answering emails.  Tried to help many people with tips and tricks that

                            I had found over the years while all the time having to fight off your attacks.  I have met many good people and picked

                            up a few dozen friends even if I never meet them in person.  The odds of winning a lottery place it well into the realm

                            of fantasy.   With this in mind what is wrong with a few people getting togeather trying to help each other win.  I am

                            getting ready to leave LP for good this time and except for comments and attacks of three people I have enjoyed

                            my time here. 

                            RL

                            By the odd "spacing" of your sentences, it appears you use some editor other than the LP editor.  The LP editor does have spell check (first line of tools->2nd from left.  "ABC with a checkmark").   I would say that is all you need.  Sure you might have a few homophone errors or but otherwise normally acceptable posts. 

                            Nothing wrong with 8th grade level writing.  Joey at 12th probably reaching the upper limits of the average poster here.  Ran a Delta Dawn Draw example, came out 13th, maybe higher.  While admirable in some circles, way out of range for most people at LP.

                            Stick around a little longer - you can always find an extra hour to post something.

                              RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

                              United States
                              Member #59354
                              March 13, 2008
                              4091 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: May 25, 2011, 1:26 pm - IP Logged

                              By the odd "spacing" of your sentences, it appears you use some editor other than the LP editor.  The LP editor does have spell check (first line of tools->2nd from left.  "ABC with a checkmark").   I would say that is all you need.  Sure you might have a few homophone errors or but otherwise normally acceptable posts. 

                              Nothing wrong with 8th grade level writing.  Joey at 12th probably reaching the upper limits of the average poster here.  Ran a Delta Dawn Draw example, came out 13th, maybe higher.  While admirable in some circles, way out of range for most people at LP.

                              Stick around a little longer - you can always find an extra hour to post something.

                              truecritic

                              No, straight lp editor. I don't make any adjustments to the standard settings and what you see is just as 

                              it is typed.  I don't use spell check for a reason.  While I do have special software the uses algrorithms to 

                              score my writting I only use them when practicing.  Spell check is like cheating and I would only be cheating

                              myself.  Josephus, I believe would score at least 3 full points higher if he was trying as I have found that

                              most people in casual writting fall off by this amount.   I would say he has a bachelors degree or very close

                              to it.  I am glad that you too have mentioned that my writting skills are ok.  My bigest problem is that I can

                              never reach the point that I feel I have explained myself so that others can understand clearly what I say.

                              I tested many posters today and they ranged from as low as 1.2 and Josephus had the highest score.

                              I ran three different post that I made and they scored from around 4.5 to 8.3.  Many of the post can't be

                              scored for various reasons including formats so I try to find civil comments that are not heated because 

                              these post drop to the bottom of the scale.   The fewer words one uses to form a sentence the higher the

                              score and 18 to 20 is prime.  Many of the posters seem to have never had any formal trainning for posting

                              sicence related post because these are normally written in a passive manner.  I did a couple DD and they

                              scored around 4.

                              RL