Welcome Guest
Log In | Register )
You last visited December 3, 2016, 6:52 pm
All times shown are
Eastern Time (GMT-5:00)

Does Mathematical Innumeracy foster superstitions and support the belief in them?

Topic closed. 122 replies. Last post 6 years ago by Delta Draw.

Page 7 of 9
52
PrintE-mailLink

Does Mathematical Innumeracy foster superstitions and support the belief in them?

Yes [ 9 ]  [45.00%]
No [ 11 ]  [55.00%]
Total Valid Votes [ 20 ]  
Discarded Votes [ 4 ]  
RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

United States
Member #59354
March 13, 2008
3962 Posts
Offline
Posted: May 25, 2011, 1:35 pm - IP Logged

truecritic

I just ran you above post and it scored a 4.61 just in case you interested and my last post scored a wopping

3.21.  I did not spend much time writing it.

RL


    United States
    Member #93947
    July 10, 2010
    2180 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: May 25, 2011, 2:48 pm - IP Logged

    Just a friendly survey to find out what people think; those who have a grasp on mathematics and statistics.

    DD

    Am I the only one noticing that this Thread has been sidetracked to a discussion of writing skill?  As John Paulos points out in his book on the subject, Innumeracy has little to no correlation with writing grade levels.

      Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
      Zeta Reticuli Star System
      United States
      Member #30470
      January 17, 2006
      10344 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: May 25, 2011, 3:30 pm - IP Logged

      It got hijacked way before that, and by other things.

      Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

      Lep

      There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

        truecritic's avatar - PirateTreasure
        Michigan
        United States
        Member #22395
        September 24, 2005
        1583 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: May 25, 2011, 3:40 pm - IP Logged

        When a thread drifts from the very narrow view of the main purpose, each additional topic brought up within it, is fair game (IMHO).  Especially when the original poster set in motion some form of the other topics.

          Avatar

          United States
          Member #105312
          January 29, 2011
          435 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: May 25, 2011, 6:03 pm - IP Logged

          It got hijacked way before that, and by other things.

          Hi Coin Toss:  Good seeing you posting here.

          This thread was never about math and never belonged on the Math Forum.  The question is about pseudo-psychology, about inept, ill-defined philosophy, about adolescent insecurities, about an attempt at self-elevation resulting from lousy and justified abysmal self-esteem.

          It was never about math. 

          The thread didn't belong on the Math Forum, but there's not a PseudoPsychology, Inept, Ill-defined Philosophy, Adolescent Insecurities,  Attempts at Self-elevation and Justified Abysmal Self-esteem Forum.

          The thread wasn't hijacked.  The thread was sunk by its own torpedo

            RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

            United States
            Member #59354
            March 13, 2008
            3962 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: May 25, 2011, 9:16 pm - IP Logged

            True enough, Pumpi.  Proving doesn't actually happen much in science, contrary to popular belief.  It's almost always as you've said, a wild card in there somewhere, some unanticipated factor, some variable not known to be variable.

            But that's not what I was referring to.  The ones actually testing theories are a microscopic piece of the community calling itself 'science' and themselves 'scientists'.  High school teachers, as an example, call themselves scientists as a rule.  But they are engaged in teaching the work done by others, not anything done by themselves except as lab demonstrations. 

            Cloning efforts could probably be more accurately described as engineering.  Applied science, as opposed to science.

            But overall, I agree with what you've said.

            But I digressed in what I intended to point out:  Treating theory as truth, or an absolute, is superstition.  As fundamentally superstitious as believing a broken mirror brings seven years of bad luck.  If theory was fact theory would be called something besides theory.

            josephus

            But I digressed in what I intended to point out:  Treating theory as truth, or an absolute, is superstition.  As fundamentally superstitious as believing a broken mirror brings seven years of bad luck.  If theory was fact theory would be called something besides theory.

            Many thanks, I have have been moved to update my views on superstition.  I never made the connection but

            this caused me to remember that my main field of study is rooted in theories.  I now confess that I am a very

            superstitious person.  This may take me weeks or maybe even years to fully apply and adjust my thought

            processes.  Thanks also to Pumpi, as I have said in the past, you are one of my favorite posters on LP.

            RL


              United States
              Member #93947
              July 10, 2010
              2180 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: May 25, 2011, 10:02 pm - IP Logged

              Hi Coin Toss:  Good seeing you posting here.

              This thread was never about math and never belonged on the Math Forum.  The question is about pseudo-psychology, about inept, ill-defined philosophy, about adolescent insecurities, about an attempt at self-elevation resulting from lousy and justified abysmal self-esteem.

              It was never about math. 

              The thread didn't belong on the Math Forum, but there's not a PseudoPsychology, Inept, Ill-defined Philosophy, Adolescent Insecurities,  Attempts at Self-elevation and Justified Abysmal Self-esteem Forum.

              The thread wasn't hijacked.  The thread was sunk by its own torpedo

              So says Joey, who apparently believes he stands head and shoulders above John Allen Paulos.  You never got over those Bs, did you?


                United States
                Member #93947
                July 10, 2010
                2180 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: May 25, 2011, 11:03 pm - IP Logged

                Beautifully stated Jimmy.  From a purely mathematical point of view, I believe we are all "nuts" for ever playing P3, P4, etc.

                I love what Albert Einstein said when he was asked how to beat roulette. His reply, "CHEAT!"

                However, some of the folks here on LP do quite well. But, they observe PATTERNS and not math or statistics.

                Sure wish Gauss was still alive. He would have the mother of all systems.

                hennybogan,

                I'm not from Missouri, but I have relatives there, and maybe that's why my response to your claim that "...some of the folks here on LP do quite well," is "Show Me!"

                And the fact that "...they observe PATTERNS and not math or statistics" is probably why they are unwilling or unable to prove their claims.

                "Sure wish Gauss was still alive. He would have the mother of all systems."

                I seriously doubt that! Gauss was devoted to the scientific method and measurable phenomena.  Predicting lotteries?

                http://teacher.pas.rochester.edu/phy122/Lecture_Notes/Chapter24/Chapter24.html

                --Jimmy4164

                  Avatar

                  United States
                  Member #105312
                  January 29, 2011
                  435 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: May 25, 2011, 11:28 pm - IP Logged

                  josephus

                  But I digressed in what I intended to point out:  Treating theory as truth, or an absolute, is superstition.  As fundamentally superstitious as believing a broken mirror brings seven years of bad luck.  If theory was fact theory would be called something besides theory.

                  Many thanks, I have have been moved to update my views on superstition.  I never made the connection but

                  this caused me to remember that my main field of study is rooted in theories.  I now confess that I am a very

                  superstitious person.  This may take me weeks or maybe even years to fully apply and adjust my thought

                  processes.  Thanks also to Pumpi, as I have said in the past, you are one of my favorite posters on LP.

                  RL

                  RL:  Don't do it because of anything I've said.  You do plenty well enough as you are.

                    RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

                    United States
                    Member #59354
                    March 13, 2008
                    3962 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: May 26, 2011, 6:41 am - IP Logged

                    RL:  Don't do it because of anything I've said.  You do plenty well enough as you are.

                    josephus

                    Don't worrie, back in the day I and my skills were much desired by many and I held the respect of those

                    in need of my serivces.   I may be just an old fudy-duddy now but it feels good to get out from under the

                    pressure.  I am now able to act a little foolish without anyone caring much.  Recess time has come around

                    again for me I am making the most out of it.  I have five young'uns out there all trying to make their mark

                    on the world and they turned out to be good investments.  I am very happy with all that I have done in my

                    lifetime and while one cannot know the time of that final nap, I feel blessed and will continue doing whatever

                    I allow.  I am of the mind that one can become so ridgid in what they believe that it becomes a prison, and

                    that which we long for most becomes our taskmaster.   Many of my best ideas came from the results of past

                    failures.  I am sometimes amazed by the sources from which I gain some peice of knowledge I was lacking.

                    Again don't worrie, my statement above was laced with a little something extra.  My bad.

                    RL

                      Avatar

                      United States
                      Member #105312
                      January 29, 2011
                      435 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: May 26, 2011, 6:49 am - IP Logged

                      josephus

                      Don't worrie, back in the day I and my skills were much desired by many and I held the respect of those

                      in need of my serivces.   I may be just an old fudy-duddy now but it feels good to get out from under the

                      pressure.  I am now able to act a little foolish without anyone caring much.  Recess time has come around

                      again for me I am making the most out of it.  I have five young'uns out there all trying to make their mark

                      on the world and they turned out to be good investments.  I am very happy with all that I have done in my

                      lifetime and while one cannot know the time of that final nap, I feel blessed and will continue doing whatever

                      I allow.  I am of the mind that one can become so ridgid in what they believe that it becomes a prison, and

                      that which we long for most becomes our taskmaster.   Many of my best ideas came from the results of past

                      failures.  I am sometimes amazed by the sources from which I gain some peice of knowledge I was lacking.

                      Again don't worrie, my statement above was laced with a little something extra.  My bad.

                      RL

                      RL:  Good to hear you're leaning back and taking a deep breath.  Just about everything I've ever gotten done in this life came out of long serieses of failures [to the extent I've ever done anything in life].  So I can resonate with the concept.

                        CARBOB's avatar - FL LOTTERY_LOGO.png
                        ORLANDO, FLORIDA
                        United States
                        Member #4924
                        June 3, 2004
                        5893 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: May 26, 2011, 8:50 am - IP Logged

                        josephus

                        Don't worrie, back in the day I and my skills were much desired by many and I held the respect of those

                        in need of my serivces.   I may be just an old fudy-duddy now but it feels good to get out from under the

                        pressure.  I am now able to act a little foolish without anyone caring much.  Recess time has come around

                        again for me I am making the most out of it.  I have five young'uns out there all trying to make their mark

                        on the world and they turned out to be good investments.  I am very happy with all that I have done in my

                        lifetime and while one cannot know the time of that final nap, I feel blessed and will continue doing whatever

                        I allow.  I am of the mind that one can become so ridgid in what they believe that it becomes a prison, and

                        that which we long for most becomes our taskmaster.   Many of my best ideas came from the results of past

                        failures.  I am sometimes amazed by the sources from which I gain some peice of knowledge I was lacking.

                        Again don't worrie, my statement above was laced with a little something extra.  My bad.

                        RL

                        RL,

                        I for one still appreciate your skills. The program you created for me works like a charm and really believe it , along with my other software will bring me a winner, I hope.

                        The following quote is from a former USAF teammate, whose son is currently on the ISS. In the quote, he is referring to a LT, who was in charge of our survey team, while tdy at Edwards AFB in 1964.

                        " I miss him and his patience . Few people put up with me as much as Lt and you. You made me feel part of the team ."

                         The statement proves, your actions and words can have lasting results!!!

                          Avatar

                          United States
                          Member #105312
                          January 29, 2011
                          435 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: May 26, 2011, 11:39 am - IP Logged

                          RL,

                          I for one still appreciate your skills. The program you created for me works like a charm and really believe it , along with my other software will bring me a winner, I hope.

                          The following quote is from a former USAF teammate, whose son is currently on the ISS. In the quote, he is referring to a LT, who was in charge of our survey team, while tdy at Edwards AFB in 1964.

                          " I miss him and his patience . Few people put up with me as much as Lt and you. You made me feel part of the team ."

                           The statement proves, your actions and words can have lasting results!!!

                          CARBOB:  I completely agree with you about RL and his contributions to the Math Forum. 

                          Thinking back over the posts and threads here over the past few months I don't believe there's any member who has provided useful input, ideas, helpful comments and/or technical information to the threads on the Math Forum approaching what he's offered.  And that, while under constant personal attacks, denigrations by innuendo and subtle implication, and concentrated attempts to disrupt the continuity of whatever he was posting at the time.  All that harassment probably tends to wear a person down eventually.

                          He keeps coming back despite it all.  Here's hoping he keeps doing it.


                            United States
                            Member #93947
                            July 10, 2010
                            2180 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: May 26, 2011, 12:19 pm - IP Logged

                            Beautifully stated Jimmy.  From a purely mathematical point of view, I believe we are all "nuts" for ever playing P3, P4, etc.

                            I love what Albert Einstein said when he was asked how to beat roulette. His reply, "CHEAT!"

                            However, some of the folks here on LP do quite well. But, they observe PATTERNS and not math or statistics.

                            Sure wish Gauss was still alive. He would have the mother of all systems.

                            hennybogan,

                            I'm not from Missouri, but I have relatives there, and maybe that's why my response to your claim that "...some of the folks here on LP do quite well," is "Show Me!"

                            And the fact that "...they observe PATTERNS and not math or statistics" is probably why they are unwilling or unable to prove their claims.

                            "Sure wish Gauss was still alive. He would have the mother of all systems."

                            I seriously doubt that! Gauss was devoted to the scientific method and measurable phenomena.  Predicting lotteries?

                            http://teacher.pas.rochester.edu/phy122/Lecture_Notes/Chapter24/Chapter24.html

                            --Jimmy4164


                              United States
                              Member #81843
                              October 31, 2009
                              856 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: May 26, 2011, 3:52 pm - IP Logged

                              Hi Coin Toss:  Good seeing you posting here.

                              This thread was never about math and never belonged on the Math Forum.  The question is about pseudo-psychology, about inept, ill-defined philosophy, about adolescent insecurities, about an attempt at self-elevation resulting from lousy and justified abysmal self-esteem.

                              It was never about math. 

                              The thread didn't belong on the Math Forum, but there's not a PseudoPsychology, Inept, Ill-defined Philosophy, Adolescent Insecurities,  Attempts at Self-elevation and Justified Abysmal Self-esteem Forum.

                              The thread wasn't hijacked.  The thread was sunk by its own torpedo

                                  "What I meant in the second statement was you seem to get off by continuesly insisting that people who play the lottery using some sort of system suffer from a fallacy which is rooted in not having the nessary math skills or understanding. Those who do have the math skills then must suffer some
                              sort of psychological disorder by trying to out perform the odds.

                              If a person does come out ahead then they are fooling themselves thinking that they somehow had a possitive effect when it was a nothing but chance. You futher attempt to endorse your beliefs that you are correct by offering a backtest to show that the same results do indeed fall within the expected range of chance. Those who oppose this view are then made to look as though they are self delusional and hardheaded not wanting to admit they were wrong. When I say that you are wrong, I am not saying the math is wrong I am saying your motives are wrong. “ 

                              Well cry me a river,  critique yourelf

                              Is that what you are all about? Proving someone wrong from another thread? You get
                              C’s and D’s in high school and then nearly ace a SAT and claim a 143IQ? Who is
                              self delusional? You feel that you are attacked and you make claims and
                              statements that are opinions. You successfully through argument derail a thread
                              because you wish to put the focus and recognition on yourself. Live up to your
                              IQ.

                              It does not require a 143 IQ to learn about and use a spell checker.

                              There are very literate people who suffer from innumeracy and that seems to be
                              alarming. It is not alarming to discover that some illiterate and poorly literate
                              people suffer even more from innumeracy. Both are learned skills and can be
                              mastered to the degree you push yourself. You can learn to better yourself or
                              you can learn to maintain yourself with excuses for poor performance.

                              I,
                              in my opinion do not believe that a systems player needs to be a mathematical genius
                              or literate to the nth degree, but she/he is aware of the odds and probability
                              to make a smart decision. Gold and Platinum members have resources here that
                              help develop statistical skills and insights. They are priceless. Card counting
                              makes one a cheat in a casino and that is because they are able to estimate the
                              chance of the likely hood of the next card(s) drawn. It gives them an improved advantage
                              to the house odds and history has shown that it works. There are members here
                              that beat the odds all the time.

                              For those who pursue that task it is their entertainment and a personal challenge. They
                              are more likely to not subscribe to the fate of the draw and make their own
                              decisions, right or wrong. Though some may buy Quick Picks they are more
                              inclined to buy Self Picks so they can take control of what gets played and
                              how. Back testing has many merits, but that is not the topic here. You are the
                              topic now.

                              Another reason some members quietly go away is that they have a working system that is
                              reliable to the point of great success. They only need to prove to themselves
                              what works for them. There is no obligation on their part to reveal HOW they do
                              it. They are satisfied with their own performance and have no need to have the
                              world pat them on the back or give them a WTG. A successful systems player is
                              not going to advertise because it can lead to the game being modified to
                              inhibit the advantage. One way to do that is to increase the odds of the chance to win. Since the early days of
                              Gail Howard, all the initial state lotteries have increased the odds for a
                              jackpot win with hardly any disclosure or hoopla. Ever wonder why?

                              Dyslexia is a language problem developed from poor reading skills and can be thwarted by
                              learning a word a day and correctly pronouncing it and spelling it. I know very
                              dyslexic people who learn how to manage a lazy mind and they never make excuses
                              for their performance because they perform quite well. They are self aware to
                              the point of changing their behavior and it works.

                              I don’t think people are drawn to LP because they need help in selecting QP’s.
                              They want to win and explore ways to do it, regardless of the odds. This is not
                              a place for the weak stomached who are dismayed by odds. They want to take
                              control of the chance they hold to win, by their own selection. Whether they
                              use Statistics, common math or some kind of lottery math with or without
                              software, they are advancing themselves in terms of numeracy.

                               The entertainment has educational value. QP’s are a no-brainer. Luck is a no brainer and is as
                              evasive as long odds. People are drawn to systematic methods because systematic
                              play can improve the chance to win, the greater the odds, the greater the challenge.
                              You can call it a superstition and it therefore is as valid as ‘luck’. The key
                              is to not be greedy and win within your means and acceptable odds. For some not
                              winning a jackpot is an acceptable challenge to win lesser amounts frequently.

                              There was nothing to indicate that superstition was a negative product of innumeracy
                              in the poll or leading post. There was nothing offensive. No one was obligated
                              to participate or leave a reply. You will find in the mystical forum the use of
                              numeric systems. The poll was not intended to criticize superstition,
                              innumeracy or illiteracy but since you started to take to task the very
                              definitions and manner of the poll to criticize, you got the same back at you
                              in spades. You are still on a quest to prove how big of a brain you have and
                              that shows throughout this thread. Why go away when you can have so many
                              enablers to stroke your brain and ego for you? Tell us more about you.

                              The only people who could have numerous LP ID’s are allowed to do so and I am not
                              one of them as I was accused of by Joey Minimus. I remember when he showed up
                              and I know why. Talk about the potcalling the kettle black! E tu Cuz?

                              IT guys & Webmasters have all kinds of ways to find if someone has more than
                              one ID. Some forums just list the IP address and that takes care of allot of
                              monkey business in forums. Of course, one’s IP address can disclose information
                              that only the Webmaster can have here at LP and that can prevent stalkers if
                              one should win big. Without the information that the Webmaster has, there is no
                              way one can with 100% certainty  say a member has two ID’s unless they pattern
                              the same way in threads with the same themes, spelling, topics, structure and
                              etcetera including the topic of ‘Luck’.

                              DD