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If you are Illegal and play lottery shouldn't they learn the rules on collection

Topic closed. 163 replies. Last post 5 years ago by sully16.

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Boney526's avatar - NjlpLogo
New Jersey
United States
Member #99032
October 18, 2010
1439 Posts
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Posted: September 2, 2011, 5:54 pm - IP Logged

The Federal Government has no Constiutional Basis to set prices, and even if it did, it would be the unwise thing to do.

 

People produce things for their own self interest - to sell them at a profit, most of the time.  That's a basic part of economics, that in a capitalist free market companies should try to sell goods for as high of a price as they can.  Competition limits their ability to charge outrageous amounts, and this allows the most effecient use of resources and production of wealth possible, assuming that monopolies don't form, which is why trust busting should be the government's duty.

 

But outside of the realm of the Federal Government we can go on to see what happens when governments (State and Foreign) set prices.  In some states of the US, the states set the prices on goods after a natural disaster, so that it becomes illegal to raise prices more than the average increase over the 6 months before it.  Sounds like a decent idea, but the result is that everybody is worse off.

 

When a disaster is about to happen, or happens, demand for certain goods goes up.  So prices get driven up, as a result of supply/demand.  This rise in price encourages more people and companies to bring goods to the disaster area, which in turn starts to drive prices back down.

 

But what happens in those states, where prices are forbidden, by law to go up?  There are shortages after a natural disaster.  Sure everything's the same price - but there is none of it.  There was a case I watched where somebody drove 19 generators down to a disaster area to sell them for a profit, and was arrested, because he wasn't allowed to sell them for more than what he paid for them.  Those 19 generators were never sold, the Police Department held them as evidence.  What good does that do?

 

It's the same case here - you can call it greed, but without self interest, nothing would get done effeciently.  If you want to have government set prices, get ready for them to set the wrong price, which will result in shortages, or an overproduction of other resources.

 

Look at the USSR - they collapsed largely in part to price setting.  (There were many more reasons, but this was a major one)

    sully16's avatar - sharan
    Ringleader
    Michigan
    United States
    Member #81740
    October 28, 2009
    40346 Posts
    Online
    Posted: September 2, 2011, 5:55 pm - IP Logged

    "If the companies were forced to pay the correct wages, more Americans would be able to work and bring home decent pay. The reason the companies pay low wages is because the illegals are willing to work for cheap wages, thus creating a market for it."

     

    Your absolutely correct.  But I don't mind that their a mutually beneficial relationship between illegal immigrants, who get a higher wage here than in their countries, and the companies, which can pass those prices on to consumers.  If we just took that away, costs would rise.  Contracts about people's pay shouldn't be negotiable by govnerment entities.

     

    On principle - I don't want to provide them amnesty but simply taking them out of the equation would be problematic to American consumers.

    I don't want the government in business at all, we the people can speak loud and clear, we will boycott your company until you treat your workers right, I am also very anti-union, was a teamster once, they didn't do a thing for me when the  machine shop I worked in closed. They kept asking for more and more until the owner said I've had enough, GOODBYE ! fIRST THE SPENDING SPREE IN D.C.,  AKA, DIPSH*TS AND CLOWNS. NEEDS TO COME TO A SCREECHING HALT.

    Did you exchange a walk on part in the war ?

    For a lead role in a cage?

     

                                                From Pink Floyd's " Wish you were here"

      sully16's avatar - sharan
      Ringleader
      Michigan
      United States
      Member #81740
      October 28, 2009
      40346 Posts
      Online
      Posted: September 2, 2011, 6:01 pm - IP Logged

      The Federal Government has no Constiutional Basis to set prices, and even if it did, it would be the unwise thing to do.

       

      People produce things for their own self interest - to sell them at a profit, most of the time.  That's a basic part of economics, that in a capitalist free market companies should try to sell goods for as high of a price as they can.  Competition limits their ability to charge outrageous amounts, and this allows the most effecient use of resources and production of wealth possible, assuming that monopolies don't form, which is why trust busting should be the government's duty.

       

      But outside of the realm of the Federal Government we can go on to see what happens when governments (State and Foreign) set prices.  In some states of the US, the states set the prices on goods after a natural disaster, so that it becomes illegal to raise prices more than the average increase over the 6 months before it.  Sounds like a decent idea, but the result is that everybody is worse off.

       

      When a disaster is about to happen, or happens, demand for certain goods goes up.  So prices get driven up, as a result of supply/demand.  This rise in price encourages more people and companies to bring goods to the disaster area, which in turn starts to drive prices back down.

       

      But what happens in those states, where prices are forbidden, by law to go up?  There are shortages after a natural disaster.  Sure everything's the same price - but there is none of it.  There was a case I watched where somebody drove 19 generators down to a disaster area to sell them for a profit, and was arrested, because he wasn't allowed to sell them for more than what he paid for them.  Those 19 generators were never sold, the Police Department held them as evidence.  What good does that do?

       

      It's the same case here - you can call it greed, but without self interest, nothing would get done effeciently.  If you want to have government set prices, get ready for them to set the wrong price, which will result in shortages, or an overproduction of other resources.

       

      Look at the USSR - they collapsed largely in part to price setting.  (There were many more reasons, but this was a major one)

      well said Boney, How do we get people back to work? Spending our way out of debt sure as heck won't work.

      Did you exchange a walk on part in the war ?

      For a lead role in a cage?

       

                                                  From Pink Floyd's " Wish you were here"

        rdgrnr's avatar - walt
        Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
        United States
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        April 28, 2009
        14903 Posts
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        Posted: September 2, 2011, 6:06 pm - IP Logged

        I don't think many people realize our history on this issue.

        Rounding up illegal aliens in tough economic times has been done 3 times before in this country and it wasn't such a big deal.

        President Hoover did it.

        President Truman did it.

        President Eisenhower did it. (He called it Operation Wetback)

        This is our country and we don't have to put up with people just traipsing in here anytime they want to and demanding rights and overwhelming our social services to the point of collapse and taking badly needed jobs and driving down wages on top of it.

        What other country would put up with this BS?

        I'm all for legal immigration but these lawbreakers who sneak in here and start demanding stuff can kiss my a$$.

        Round em up!


                                                     
                             
                                                 

         

         

         

         

                                                                                                           

        "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                    --Edmund Burke

         

         

          sully16's avatar - sharan
          Ringleader
          Michigan
          United States
          Member #81740
          October 28, 2009
          40346 Posts
          Online
          Posted: September 2, 2011, 6:10 pm - IP Logged

          I don't think many people realize our history on this issue.

          Rounding up illegal aliens in tough economic times has been done 3 times before in this country and it wasn't such a big deal.

          President Hoover did it.

          President Truman did it.

          President Eisenhower did it. (He called it Operation Wetback)

          This is our country and we don't have to put up with people just traipsing in here anytime they want to and demanding rights and overwhelming our social services to the point of collapse and taking badly needed jobs and driving down wages on top of it.

          What other country would put up with this BS?

          I'm all for legal immigration but these lawbreakers who sneak in here and start demanding stuff can kiss my a$$.

          Round em up!

          I fully agree.

          Did you exchange a walk on part in the war ?

          For a lead role in a cage?

           

                                                      From Pink Floyd's " Wish you were here"

            Boney526's avatar - NjlpLogo
            New Jersey
            United States
            Member #99032
            October 18, 2010
            1439 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: September 2, 2011, 6:16 pm - IP Logged

            well said Boney, How do we get people back to work? Spending our way out of debt sure as heck won't work.

            We've got to 1) stop printing money

            2) back our currency by something tangible

            3) allow a competitive currency martket place and get rid of the Federal Reserve.  Central Banking is only necessary to monetize debt after a spending spree, it shouldn't be there to ENABLE a spending spree.  Even then it's not necessary, but helpful.  Now we've got a permanent central bank de-valueing the dollar.

            4) stop regulating the begeezus out of everything there possibly is (almost EVERYTHING is regulated under the commerce clause - which was originally intended to prevent tariffs and trade quarrels between states)

            - speifically we've got to stop regulating Pharma and Health Care to the degree we do, because before ObamaCare government's already spent .50 cents of every health care dollar and hospitals and doctors generally charge more to governments than to people.

            5) ensure strong competition through a stong enforcement of anit-trust laws.  No bailouts.

            6) not just reduce the deficit, but eliminate it.  This would require us to start paying some attention to the Constiution.  Just doing that alone would force the executive branch to get permission to use our armed forces, (which would save a lot of money) start a plan to balance Social Security, Medicare, etc. to balance OR send those programs to the states (where it should be handled in the first place) and stop prohibitions, etc.

            7) Reform the tax code to something simpler.  Get rid of ALL FEDERAL TAXES we currently have and replace it with a Sales Tax.  This ensures illegal immigrants and rourists will have to pay taxes, while allowing small businesses to cope better with the market environment, since they'd be free of the huge corporate tax rate, which the giant companies generally have ways of getting around.  Indiviuals wouldn't be taxed on income so they could save more, and spend more.  (although realistically, the original purpose of the income tax was to tax the mega rich, so even if we eliminated all federal taxes, there'd probably still be a tax on the top few percent of income earners)

            Essentially we've just got to get the government OUT OF THE ECONOMY.  Laizzes Faire is the way to go, because people are more effecient with their capital on the line, with their job on the line, with their lively hood on the line, than the government is, because government's wealth doesn't come from hard work, it comes from stealing it from the middle class.

              sully16's avatar - sharan
              Ringleader
              Michigan
              United States
              Member #81740
              October 28, 2009
              40346 Posts
              Online
              Posted: September 2, 2011, 6:23 pm - IP Logged

              We've got to 1) stop printing money

              2) back our currency by something tangible

              3) allow a competitive currency martket place and get rid of the Federal Reserve.  Central Banking is only necessary to monetize debt after a spending spree, it shouldn't be there to ENABLE a spending spree.  Even then it's not necessary, but helpful.  Now we've got a permanent central bank de-valueing the dollar.

              4) stop regulating the begeezus out of everything there possibly is (almost EVERYTHING is regulated under the commerce clause - which was originally intended to prevent tariffs and trade quarrels between states)

              - speifically we've got to stop regulating Pharma and Health Care to the degree we do, because before ObamaCare government's already spent .50 cents of every health care dollar and hospitals and doctors generally charge more to governments than to people.

              5) ensure strong competition through a stong enforcement of anit-trust laws.  No bailouts.

              6) not just reduce the deficit, but eliminate it.  This would require us to start paying some attention to the Constiution.  Just doing that alone would force the executive branch to get permission to use our armed forces, (which would save a lot of money) start a plan to balance Social Security, Medicare, etc. to balance OR send those programs to the states (where it should be handled in the first place) and stop prohibitions, etc.

              7) Reform the tax code to something simpler.  Get rid of ALL FEDERAL TAXES we currently have and replace it with a Sales Tax.  This ensures illegal immigrants and rourists will have to pay taxes, while allowing small businesses to cope better with the market environment, since they'd be free of the huge corporate tax rate, which the giant companies generally have ways of getting around.  Indiviuals wouldn't be taxed on income so they could save more, and spend more.  (although realistically, the original purpose of the income tax was to tax the mega rich, so even if we eliminated all federal taxes, there'd probably still be a tax on the top few percent of income earners)

              Essentially we've just got to get the government OUT OF THE ECONOMY.  Laizzes Faire is the way to go, because people are more effecient with their capital on the line, with their job on the line, with their lively hood on the line, than the government is, because government's wealth doesn't come from hard work, it comes from stealing it from the middle class.

              Let me do some research on Laizzes Faire, before I comment, You got a good head on your shoulders, I hope you put your education to good use.

              Everything else I agree on.Sun Smiley

              Did you exchange a walk on part in the war ?

              For a lead role in a cage?

               

                                                          From Pink Floyd's " Wish you were here"

                Boney526's avatar - NjlpLogo
                New Jersey
                United States
                Member #99032
                October 18, 2010
                1439 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: September 2, 2011, 6:33 pm - IP Logged

                Let me do some research on Laizzes Faire, before I comment, You got a good head on your shoulders, I hope you put your education to good use.

                Everything else I agree on.Sun Smiley

                Laizzes Faire just means "hands off" - if I remember the translation right.

                 

                There's more specific types of it - I've briefly studied the Austrian School of economics.  I've got a lot more to learn, but Austrian economists have predicted nearly everything that's happened ecnomically, while Keynesian economists have caused massive headaches.

                 

                One example of this is the Housing bubble.  I recently read on article where Paul Krugman, who is going to be Obama's Adviser on Economic Affairs, suggested Alan Greenspan replace the Nasdaq bubble with a Housing Bubble.  Greenspan followed that advice, and the Bubble burst in 2007, while Austrian economists were telling them to let people go bankrupt, let the market liquidate the bad assets on their own - leave the government out and it'd settle itself.

                  rdgrnr's avatar - walt
                  Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
                  United States
                  Member #73904
                  April 28, 2009
                  14903 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: September 2, 2011, 11:13 pm - IP Logged

                  Laizzes Faire just means "hands off" - if I remember the translation right.

                   

                  There's more specific types of it - I've briefly studied the Austrian School of economics.  I've got a lot more to learn, but Austrian economists have predicted nearly everything that's happened ecnomically, while Keynesian economists have caused massive headaches.

                   

                  One example of this is the Housing bubble.  I recently read on article where Paul Krugman, who is going to be Obama's Adviser on Economic Affairs, suggested Alan Greenspan replace the Nasdaq bubble with a Housing Bubble.  Greenspan followed that advice, and the Bubble burst in 2007, while Austrian economists were telling them to let people go bankrupt, let the market liquidate the bad assets on their own - leave the government out and it'd settle itself.

                  Hands off is basically what it means.

                  Laissez faire

                  1. The theory or system of government that upholds the autonomous character of the economic order, believing that government should intervene as little as possible in the direction of economic affairs.

                  2. The practice or doctrine of non-interference in the affairs of others, especially with reference to individual conduct or freedom of action.


                                                               
                                       
                                                           

                   

                   

                   

                   

                                                                                                                     

                  "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                              --Edmund Burke

                   

                   

                    Boney526's avatar - NjlpLogo
                    New Jersey
                    United States
                    Member #99032
                    October 18, 2010
                    1439 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: September 3, 2011, 12:15 am - IP Logged

                    Hands off is basically what it means.

                    Laissez faire

                    1. The theory or system of government that upholds the autonomous character of the economic order, believing that government should intervene as little as possible in the direction of economic affairs.

                    2. The practice or doctrine of non-interference in the affairs of others, especially with reference to individual conduct or freedom of action.

                    Yeah now that I think about it I think the literal translation is "leave it be" or "let it be"

                     

                    I remember learning about it so briefly in High School they made it seem like a joke.  You've got to actually read on your own to get the reality of economics - because schools are so heavily biased towards Keynesian economics, both at a Public School level and University level.

                      pepper1's avatar - batman38
                      hotatlanta
                      United States
                      Member #70664
                      February 8, 2009
                      1446 Posts
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                      Posted: September 3, 2011, 9:46 am - IP Logged

                      Back to the basic question how can you buy a ticket and be ILLegal. I just don't get it. I'm I on the short bus are not? I for one

                       not waiting on the government I buy American are I don't buy at all. If you can't understand me when I call on the phone that

                      a product I don't need. You get hell when you go to these other countries and do something wrong. They make you pay. It's

                      a catch 22 I wonder if you go to other countries a play lottery can yu keep the money? If i won in another country I would

                      find out before I just hand my ticket over that for sure.

                        rdgrnr's avatar - walt
                        Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
                        United States
                        Member #73904
                        April 28, 2009
                        14903 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: September 3, 2011, 1:00 pm - IP Logged

                        Back to the basic question how can you buy a ticket and be ILLegal. I just don't get it. I'm I on the short bus are not? I for one

                         not waiting on the government I buy American are I don't buy at all. If you can't understand me when I call on the phone that

                        a product I don't need. You get hell when you go to these other countries and do something wrong. They make you pay. It's

                        a catch 22 I wonder if you go to other countries a play lottery can yu keep the money? If i won in another country I would

                        find out before I just hand my ticket over that for sure.

                        If you sneak into another country against their laws you will sit and rot in a hell-hole jail til your family bribes someone to get you out.

                        If you sneak into this country, the democrats will reward you with all kinds of benefits and welfare and put your parents on social security so you'll vote for them.

                        That's the difference.

                        An illegal knowing how to collect his winnings should not even be an issue.

                        Screw the illegal and screw his winnings.

                        He's not supposed to be here.

                        He only won the lottery by breaking our laws - he should be put in jail and deported - not rewarded.


                                                                     
                                             
                                                                 

                         

                         

                         

                         

                                                                                                                           

                        "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                                    --Edmund Burke

                         

                         

                          Raven62's avatar - binary
                          New Jersey
                          United States
                          Member #17843
                          June 28, 2005
                          49674 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: September 3, 2011, 1:12 pm - IP Logged

                          The Federal Government has no Constiutional Basis to set prices, and even if it did, it would be the unwise thing to do.

                           

                          People produce things for their own self interest - to sell them at a profit, most of the time.  That's a basic part of economics, that in a capitalist free market companies should try to sell goods for as high of a price as they can.  Competition limits their ability to charge outrageous amounts, and this allows the most effecient use of resources and production of wealth possible, assuming that monopolies don't form, which is why trust busting should be the government's duty.

                           

                          But outside of the realm of the Federal Government we can go on to see what happens when governments (State and Foreign) set prices.  In some states of the US, the states set the prices on goods after a natural disaster, so that it becomes illegal to raise prices more than the average increase over the 6 months before it.  Sounds like a decent idea, but the result is that everybody is worse off.

                           

                          When a disaster is about to happen, or happens, demand for certain goods goes up.  So prices get driven up, as a result of supply/demand.  This rise in price encourages more people and companies to bring goods to the disaster area, which in turn starts to drive prices back down.

                           

                          But what happens in those states, where prices are forbidden, by law to go up?  There are shortages after a natural disaster.  Sure everything's the same price - but there is none of it.  There was a case I watched where somebody drove 19 generators down to a disaster area to sell them for a profit, and was arrested, because he wasn't allowed to sell them for more than what he paid for them.  Those 19 generators were never sold, the Police Department held them as evidence.  What good does that do?

                           

                          It's the same case here - you can call it greed, but without self interest, nothing would get done effeciently.  If you want to have government set prices, get ready for them to set the wrong price, which will result in shortages, or an overproduction of other resources.

                           

                          Look at the USSR - they collapsed largely in part to price setting.  (There were many more reasons, but this was a major one)

                          The Federal Government had no Constiutional Basis to Freeze Wages, but they did it!

                          A mind once stretched by a new idea never returns to its original dimensions!


                            United States
                            Member #75358
                            June 1, 2009
                            5345 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: September 3, 2011, 1:20 pm - IP Logged

                            If you sneak into another country against their laws you will sit and rot in a hell-hole jail til your family bribes someone to get you out.

                            If you sneak into this country, the democrats will reward you with all kinds of benefits and welfare and put your parents on social security so you'll vote for them.

                            That's the difference.

                            An illegal knowing how to collect his winnings should not even be an issue.

                            Screw the illegal and screw his winnings.

                            He's not supposed to be here.

                            He only won the lottery by breaking our laws - he should be put in jail and deported - not rewarded.

                            Not all countries. When I was in the Navy on detachment in San Diego, Miramar base, on leave, me and a bunch of my Navy buddies snuck into Mexico. The first place we went to, had red curtains at the door. When we entered and sat down at the boothed table, a fat mamacita old enough to be my mother sat down next to us and asked If I wanted to buy her a 20 dollar screw driver (vodka and orange juice)...

                            Even though I declined, we were treated like kings....

                             

                             

                                                                      pic

                             

                                                     

                              Raven62's avatar - binary
                              New Jersey
                              United States
                              Member #17843
                              June 28, 2005
                              49674 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: September 3, 2011, 1:30 pm - IP Logged

                              If I read one more story about an illegal getting his lottery ticket taken I'm going to throw up.

                              For people that fight so hard to stay here I just don't understand why you don't know your rights.

                              You can't say they don't speak english everything is in spanish, they have lawyer, friend, family, how

                              can a total strange beat you out of your lottery ticket, unless you don't want to share with your family, and

                              that's why you don't seek help. If you are willing to stand on TV and say were're not leaving, drive a car,

                              work here illegal why can't you learn if it's legal for you to collect your money.

                              They know what the rules are: They don't possess the Documentation in order to Claim a Large Prize Legally: So: They try to Claim the Prize Illegally: And get Cheated!

                              In the mean time they are playing and collecting prizes less that $600 with out any problems.

                              How many Forms of Documentation to You have to Show in order to Renew Your Drivers License? Thanks to All the Illegals!

                              A mind once stretched by a new idea never returns to its original dimensions!

                                 
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