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code breaking and the LOtto...

Topic closed. 105 replies. Last post 10 years ago by Rip Snorter.

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bellyache's avatar - 64x64a9wg

United States
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March 18, 2005
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Posted: May 29, 2006, 2:00 pm - IP Logged

You guys are talking about trying crack the lottery?  well its not that hard to do, you have to know some certain things, and have statistics and things of that nature, like for example the machine that mega millions has, most of the time there are 2 numbers that are in numerical order like 23,24 or 14,15 take a look at some of the draws you will see alot of them.

I think it is easier said then done. Like Jack said, take a try a predicting in the jackpot forum. A lot of people have been trying to find a method or system to beat the odds for years.

    BobP's avatar - bobp avatar.png
    Dump Water Florida
    United States
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    Posted: May 30, 2006, 12:08 am - IP Logged

    A code begins with a message, a formula, something that is converted into the code to be deciphered by someone who holds the key at the other end.

    To crack a code, to obtain the key, there has to be an original message or it can't be cracked because there is nothing to be found in the cracking of it. 

    The lottery is random or semi-random number generation.  It isn't like the lottery is sending us hidden messages.  Not that they aren't to be found, the million monkeys banging away at typewriters thing will eventually produce something that reads like a message.  Like the word randomizer some spammers use to make spam look like it includes a message.

    Anyway, trying to determine a seed for the random number generation would be more possible then looking for hidden messages.  Like I said, patterns exist, they aren't messages, but in cracking a code one looks for repeating patterns to test keys against.

    I don't just parrot stuff someone told me, I've given it thought or I don't offer an opinion.  BobP

      Thoth's avatar - binary
      Findlay, Ohio
      United States
      Member #4855
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      Posted: June 1, 2006, 3:05 am - IP Logged

      The problem is lottery numbers don't stand for anything, they are not a measure of anything, so there is no meaning behind their order to be worked out like there is with a code.

      They are pictures that happen to look like numbers.  Because of this we can use some math to deal with their distribution.  It helps to remember a 1 has no more or less value then a 49.

      There are patterns and those patterns can be slid up and down the scale. So even when you identify a pattern, it can begin and end with a different number the next time.  1 up or down, 2 up or down, etc.

      BobP

      Actually, I like to think that the lottery stands for something.  The something being several dozen (or perhaps even hundreds) of different probabilities, all of which are intermixed but at the same time all playing out according to their alloted percentages.

      What I know to be a fact of mathematics is that every idea or concept, whether it be a stand-alone system or improvised strategy, has its own odds and probability of success.  Furthermore, the seperate digits, pairs and entire combinations all have odds associated with them as well.  So, while the individual numbers may not stand for anything in particular, or have any specific meaning rather, each number by itself, or in conjuction with others, directly represents specific odds for the next game.  Over the course of a measured number of games, all numbers and their conjuctions also represent long or short-term probabilities.

      You can calculate the probability for just about any lottery event that you can dream up...and when that chance is correctly figured, the actual performance of every similar game will closely follow it in each state.  Patterns and trends do exist in the lottery, but these are really just the mislabeled effects of the laws of probability.  Anything that is considered hot or cold and due or overdue, has an EXACT probability connected to it.  Over a period of time, each event will occur at a percentage that is very close to its true probability.

      The lottery and all of its components are an extremely measurable mechanism.  In many ways, it's similar to a self-sustaining ecosystem where each organism represents a specific digit and each microscopic community represents a different event that embraces different odds.  All organisms come together to create a balance in the ecosystem.

      I really dont think that there is a true "lotto code" that exists to be broken... or at least in the way that a code breaker would crack an encrypted secret message.  I do, however, like to think that there is some sort of "loophole of probability" that is yet to be discovered.  I have taken the first 3,000 digits of Pi and broken them down into three-digit Pick 3 style numbers.  I must say, the flow of randomness within Pi is almost identical to that of a typical Pick 3 game—only Pi is slightly more perfect.  I am convinced that if anyone ever finds a consistent way to predict three-digit chunks of Pi that they will have found the loophole. 

      ~Probability=Odds in Motion~

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        New Mexico
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        Posted: June 1, 2006, 10:12 am - IP Logged

        The problem is lottery numbers don't stand for anything, they are not a measure of anything, so there is no meaning behind their order to be worked out like there is with a code.

        They are pictures that happen to look like numbers.  Because of this we can use some math to deal with their distribution.  It helps to remember a 1 has no more or less value then a 49.

        There are patterns and those patterns can be slid up and down the scale. So even when you identify a pattern, it can begin and end with a different number the next time.  1 up or down, 2 up or down, etc.

        BobP

        Actually, I like to think that the lottery stands for something.  The something being several dozen (or perhaps even hundreds) of different probabilities, all of which are intermixed but at the same time all playing out according to their alloted percentages.

        What I know to be a fact of mathematics is that every idea or concept, whether it be a stand-alone system or improvised strategy, has its own odds and probability of success.  Furthermore, the seperate digits, pairs and entire combinations all have odds associated with them as well.  So, while the individual numbers may not stand for anything in particular, or have any specific meaning rather, each number by itself, or in conjuction with others, directly represents specific odds for the next game.  Over the course of a measured number of games, all numbers and their conjuctions also represent long or short-term probabilities.

        You can calculate the probability for just about any lottery event that you can dream up...and when that chance is correctly figured, the actual performance of every similar game will closely follow it in each state.  Patterns and trends do exist in the lottery, but these are really just the mislabeled effects of the laws of probability.  Anything that is considered hot or cold and due or overdue, has an EXACT probability connected to it.  Over a period of time, each event will occur at a percentage that is very close to its true probability.

        The lottery and all of its components are an extremely measurable mechanism.  In many ways, it's similar to a self-sustaining ecosystem where each organism represents a specific digit and each microscopic community represents a different event that embraces different odds.  All organisms come together to create a balance in the ecosystem.

        I really dont think that there is a true "lotto code" that exists to be broken... or at least in the way that a code breaker would crack an encrypted secret message.  I do, however, like to think that there is some sort of "loophole of probability" that is yet to be discovered.  I have taken the first 3,000 digits of Pi and broken them down into three-digit Pick 3 style numbers.  I must say, the flow of randomness within Pi is almost identical to that of a typical Pick 3 game—only Pi is slightly more perfect.  I am convinced that if anyone ever finds a consistent way to predict three-digit chunks of Pi that they will have found the loophole. 

        Thoth:

        I admire your approach.

        Those pick 3 and pick 4 draws are a piece of the puzzle I haven't studied, but they seem to me to be a lot more complex than the double digit draws.  The repetitions and patterns within the overall lottery-pool are more compelling in some ways than they are for the larger draws.

        Maybe the million-to-infinite digit sequence to the right of the decimal in Pi is the answer to the puzzle, as you suggest.  I certainly believe you're correct in your premise that examining the entire manifestation of attempts at human-induced randomness in numbers is a more effective starting place than staring fixedly at a particular time-thread of sequences in a few state draws.

        However, those patterns you speak of are, I believe, the pivot-point on which the entire issue of randomness twists.

        Patterns, even in an environment of randomness will inevitably occur.  They'd probably be meaningless, as Bob postulates, supposing the near-identical patterns recur, but if they happen at random intervals.  The argument weighs in favor of randomness if that's what available data suggests.

        On the other hand, recurring patterns manifesting over a given time-intervals concurrent with other observable phenomena, repeated throughout the available history of lottery-draw records suggests another possibility might exist.  If a single seemingly unrelated phenomenon can be demonstrated through existing data to correspond with attempts to generate random numbers the possibility of a relationship between the two gains strength with each recurrence.

        When a sufficient body of evidence is collected (as you're doing with Pi) to compose a theory to explain what the relationship might be, it seems to me to be worth testing if a person's so inclined.  A theory that explains all existing data and can't be disproved by exceptions is as valid as any contrary assumptions based on logic, tradition, or conventional wisdom. 

        I say ‘as valid' to tip my hat to those anchored in logic, conventional wisdom and tradition.  Occams Razor is too anchored in logic, tradition and conventional wisdom to call it an absolute.

        I hope you find what you need to prove or disprove the Pi theory.  You have my respect.

        Jack

         

        Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

        It's about number behavior.

        Egos don't count.

         

        Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

         

          BobP's avatar - bobp avatar.png
          Dump Water Florida
          United States
          Member #380
          June 5, 2002
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          Posted: June 1, 2006, 11:16 pm - IP Logged

          The problem is lottery numbers don't stand for anything, they are not a measure of anything, so there is no meaning behind their order to be worked out like there is with a code.

          They are pictures that happen to look like numbers.  Because of this we can use some math to deal with their distribution.  It helps to remember a 1 has no more or less value then a 49.

          There are patterns and those patterns can be slid up and down the scale. So even when you identify a pattern, it can begin and end with a different number the next time.  1 up or down, 2 up or down, etc.

          BobP

          Actually, I like to think that the lottery stands for something.  The something being several dozen (or perhaps even hundreds) of different probabilities, all of which are intermixed but at the same time all playing out according to their alloted percentages.

          What I know to be a fact of mathematics is that every idea or concept, whether it be a stand-alone system or improvised strategy, has its own odds and probability of success.  Furthermore, the seperate digits, pairs and entire combinations all have odds associated with them as well.  So, while the individual numbers may not stand for anything in particular, or have any specific meaning rather, each number by itself, or in conjuction with others, directly represents specific odds for the next game.  Over the course of a measured number of games, all numbers and their conjuctions also represent long or short-term probabilities.

          You can calculate the probability for just about any lottery event that you can dream up...and when that chance is correctly figured, the actual performance of every similar game will closely follow it in each state.  Patterns and trends do exist in the lottery, but these are really just the mislabeled effects of the laws of probability.  Anything that is considered hot or cold and due or overdue, has an EXACT probability connected to it.  Over a period of time, each event will occur at a percentage that is very close to its true probability.

          The lottery and all of its components are an extremely measurable mechanism.  In many ways, it's similar to a self-sustaining ecosystem where each organism represents a specific digit and each microscopic community represents a different event that embraces different odds.  All organisms come together to create a balance in the ecosystem.

          I really dont think that there is a true "lotto code" that exists to be broken... or at least in the way that a code breaker would crack an encrypted secret message.  I do, however, like to think that there is some sort of "loophole of probability" that is yet to be discovered.  I have taken the first 3,000 digits of Pi and broken them down into three-digit Pick 3 style numbers.  I must say, the flow of randomness within Pi is almost identical to that of a typical Pick 3 game—only Pi is slightly more perfect.  I am convinced that if anyone ever finds a consistent way to predict three-digit chunks of Pi that they will have found the loophole. 

          You might be better off breaking 48 of the 49 or so lottery numbers into 16 groups of 3 numbers.  You could play those off against each other in 120 combinations. Get any two sets of 3 correct there is a 100% guarantee of a jackpot win.  A set of 3 plus 2of3 would guarantee a 5# win, etc. 

           1  2  3  4  5  6
           1  2  3  7  8  9
           1  2  3 10 11 12
           1  2  3 13 14 15
           1  2  3 16 17 18
           1  2  3 19 20 21
           1  2  3 22 23 24
           1  2  3 25 26 27
           1  2  3 28 29 30
           1  2  3 31 32 33
           1  2  3 34 35 36
           1  2  3 37 38 39
           1  2  3 40 41 42
           1  2  3 43 44 45
           1  2  3 46 47 48
           4  5  6  7  8  9
           4  5  6 10 11 12
           4  5  6 13 14 15
           4  5  6 16 17 18
           4  5  6 19 20 21
           4  5  6 22 23 24
           4  5  6 25 26 27
           4  5  6 28 29 30
           4  5  6 31 32 33
           4  5  6 34 35 36
           4  5  6 37 38 39
           4  5  6 40 41 42
           4  5  6 43 44 45
           4  5  6 46 47 48
           7  8  9 10 11 12
           7  8  9 13 14 15
           7  8  9 16 17 18
           7  8  9 19 20 21
           7  8  9 22 23 24
           7  8  9 25 26 27
           7  8  9 28 29 30
           7  8  9 31 32 33
           7  8  9 34 35 36
           7  8  9 37 38 39
           7  8  9 40 41 42
           7  8  9 43 44 45
           7  8  9 46 47 48
          10 11 12 13 14 15
          10 11 12 16 17 18
          10 11 12 19 20 21
          10 11 12 22 23 24
          10 11 12 25 26 27
          10 11 12 28 29 30
          10 11 12 31 32 33
          10 11 12 34 35 36
          10 11 12 37 38 39
          10 11 12 40 41 42
          10 11 12 43 44 45
          10 11 12 46 47 48
          13 14 15 16 17 18
          13 14 15 19 20 21
          13 14 15 22 23 24
          13 14 15 25 26 27
          13 14 15 28 29 30
          13 14 15 31 32 33
          13 14 15 34 35 36
          13 14 15 37 38 39
          13 14 15 40 41 42
          13 14 15 43 44 45
          13 14 15 46 47 48
          16 17 18 19 20 21
          16 17 18 22 23 24
          16 17 18 25 26 27
          16 17 18 28 29 30
          16 17 18 31 32 33
          16 17 18 34 35 36
          16 17 18 37 38 39
          16 17 18 40 41 42
          16 17 18 43 44 45
          16 17 18 46 47 48
          19 20 21 22 23 24
          19 20 21 25 26 27
          19 20 21 28 29 30
          19 20 21 31 32 33
          19 20 21 34 35 36
          19 20 21 37 38 39
          19 20 21 40 41 42
          19 20 21 43 44 45
          19 20 21 46 47 48
          22 23 24 25 26 27
          22 23 24 28 29 30
          22 23 24 31 32 33
          22 23 24 34 35 36
          22 23 24 37 38 39
          22 23 24 40 41 42
          22 23 24 43 44 45
          22 23 24 46 47 48
          25 26 27 28 29 30
          25 26 27 31 32 33
          25 26 27 34 35 36
          25 26 27 37 38 39
          25 26 27 40 41 42
          25 26 27 43 44 45
          25 26 27 46 47 48
          28 29 30 31 32 33
          28 29 30 34 35 36
          28 29 30 37 38 39
          28 29 30 40 41 42
          28 29 30 43 44 45
          28 29 30 46 47 48
          31 32 33 34 35 36
          31 32 33 37 38 39
          31 32 33 40 41 42
          31 32 33 43 44 45
          31 32 33 46 47 48
          34 35 36 37 38 39
          34 35 36 40 41 42
          34 35 36 43 44 45
          34 35 36 46 47 48
          37 38 39 40 41 42
          37 38 39 43 44 45
          37 38 39 46 47 48
          40 41 42 43 44 45
          40 41 42 46 47 48
          43 44 45 46 47 48
          end 120 lines 3+3=JP
          BobP

            psykomo's avatar - animal shark.jpg

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            Posted: June 2, 2006, 12:56 am - IP Logged

             

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            PSYKOMO 

              psykomo's avatar - animal shark.jpg

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              Posted: June 2, 2006, 1:01 am - IP Logged

               

              CAN"TTTTTTTTTTTT BELIEveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

              4/22,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,hit ($4........outta..............5..................LOL}$$$$$$$$$

              PSYKOMO 

               

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              LOL

              PSYKOMO 

                psykomo's avatar - animal shark.jpg

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                Posted: June 2, 2006, 1:35 am - IP Logged

                 

                CAN"TTTTTTTTTTTT BELIEveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                4/22,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,hit ($4........outta..............5..................LOL}$$$$$$$$$

                PSYKOMO 

                 

                (but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,QUICK-PICS.............TAKE a lot lesssssssssssssssss

                TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GOOoooooooFORitttttttttt$$$$

                LOL

                PSYKOMO 

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                  Thoth's avatar - binary
                  Findlay, Ohio
                  United States
                  Member #4855
                  May 28, 2004
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                  Posted: June 2, 2006, 12:48 pm - IP Logged

                  "You might be better off breaking 48 of the 49 or so lottery numbers into 16 groups of 3 numbers.  You could play those off against each other in 120 combinations. Get any two sets of 3 correct there is a 100% guarantee of a jackpot win.  A set of 3 plus 2of3 would guarantee a 5# win, etc"

                   

                  Yea....Ive messed with several strategies and ideas for the bigger lotto games.  Unfortunately, they all require spending too much money in order to have a real a chance of winning—at least when basing them solely on probability.  I've always hated having to add the luck element into the mix of things. 

                  ~Probability=Odds in Motion~

                    CASH3FTW's avatar - Lottery-029.jpg
                    Georgia USA
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                    Posted: June 2, 2006, 1:53 pm - IP Logged

                    I think it is very possible to crack the lottery. 

                     

                    I saw a tv show about Roulette how 3 men designed a system to where it knew the exact number each time the ball fell into the hole.  Now if someone can invent and master that I can think someone can get up a system to pick the numbers 100%.    

                      Avatar
                      New Mexico
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                      Posted: June 3, 2006, 2:22 pm - IP Logged

                      A code begins with a message, a formula, something that is converted into the code to be deciphered by someone who holds the key at the other end.

                      To crack a code, to obtain the key, there has to be an original message or it can't be cracked because there is nothing to be found in the cracking of it. 

                      The lottery is random or semi-random number generation.  It isn't like the lottery is sending us hidden messages.  Not that they aren't to be found, the million monkeys banging away at typewriters thing will eventually produce something that reads like a message.  Like the word randomizer some spammers use to make spam look like it includes a message.

                      Anyway, trying to determine a seed for the random number generation would be more possible then looking for hidden messages.  Like I said, patterns exist, they aren't messages, but in cracking a code one looks for repeating patterns to test keys against.

                      I don't just parrot stuff someone told me, I've given it thought or I don't offer an opinion.  BobP

                      Anyway, trying to determine a seed for the random number generation would be more possible then looking for hidden messages.  Like I said, patterns exist, they aren't messages, but in cracking a code one looks for repeating patterns to test keys against.

                      I don't just parrot stuff someone told me, I've given it thought or I don't offer an opinion.  BobP

                      Bob:

                      I think you've read more into some of my posts in the past than I should have put there. 

                      I don't discount the possibility the number behaviors carry a message.  Occasionally I think they might, other times I believe one particular sequence that appears to carry a message is mere repeated coincidence.

                      I do, however, believe there's sufficient body of hard evidence to be found in the draw histories to support the premise that random number behavior is more nearly a 'fixed' phenomenon than can be accounted for in your analogy about occurance being merely a set of repeated random patterns showing up on pingpong balls with numbers painted on them.

                      Today I've posted two sets of predictions for Washington Keno and Quebec Banco.  Each involves fewer than 50 lines.

                      The Washington Keno set was derived from a bare-bones assumption of a direct relationship between lunar phases and historical (and future) man-made attempts to force numbers to behave randomly.  The method used is a new one (for me) and completely untried.

                      I have no idea how it will fall out.  If it's a bust, I doubt I'll resign myself to believing there's not relationship between the two. 

                      The Quebec Banco set was derived using the same basic methods as the Washington set, but with times of sunrise, sunset, moonrise and moonset thrown into the mix.

                      I've never tried this one before, either.

                      The data, information and methods used are all available to premium LP members, with the exception of moonrise/moonset/sunrise/sunset data, which can be found elsewhere in the web.  The same methods with a bit of tweaking would be easily adaptable to pick 5 and pick 6.

                      Each of these sets of numbers use data available months and years ago.... the two 50 lines sets for June 3, 2006, could have as easily been compiled December, 2005, as any time since. 

                      If these methods as manifested in this +-100 lines of numbers fail to demonstrate any relationship between random number behavior and the external, apparently unrelated phenomena, it's just another bug on the windshield of exploration for me.

                      However, should outcomes of the draws on those two keno games rhyme measurably with the predictions, maybe the paint on those numbers they put on pingpong balls hasn't dried too much to allow you to give it some more thought.

                      Jack


                      Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                      It's about number behavior.

                      Egos don't count.

                       

                      Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                       

                        Avatar

                        Honduras
                        Member #20982
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                        Posted: June 3, 2006, 5:56 pm - IP Logged

                        Just to prove that cracking an encryption is more difficult than the lotto:

                        http://products.secureserver.net/products/ssl_encryptionstrength_linux.htm

                        read the last paragraph where it say that a 128 bit encryption has 2^128 power possible combinations. I speculate the following. They got supercomputers that can make a trillion calculations per second, some do quadrillion. Before code breakers had to do it by hand. Imagine with a supercomputer it will take 1 second to go through all possible combinations or do the computations. Now,let me say this again. I am so confident they can crack the lotto because they got wheels nowadays. And guys, i do believe that there are "wheels" outhere that we haven't heard about; wheels that could do damage, they may take more than 1000 combinations but is possible...Guys if you use ratios, you can "weave" not wheel the numbers so good, that it could be a hot ass wheel...
                        You all think is not possible because you all think of the wheel of closed, but a wheel to be effective doesn't have to be closed, it can be open. Open wheels can do damage just as bad. Think what are the odds that a combination that has all numbers odd will play, in a RnG simulation an all-odd combination comes out once sometimes twice a month, and that's a pick6 playing everyday.? I also believe that there is a very ingenious way of weaving [not wheeling] bonus balls with the rest of the numbers all strategically and compactly[not key wheels either]...Now think about the Fl mega money, it pays 500,000 twice a week?There are patterns that existing technology/lotto-softwares can't tap into all of that with the existance of abbreviated wheels?men! please!..Who would try and crack a code that's more difficult, when they can try and crack a 500,000 twice a week environment?How much do code breakers make: )? Guys, and all you need is to receive that money once or twice, take it all and ingeniously invest it and not to mention the potential...All i have to say is, there are hot wheels outhere we know nothing about...You think lotterywheels.com is going to sell you a 500,000 a month deal? I am sure he don't make that kind of money monthly...Guys when i say cracking the lotto i mean pick5 and up, not pick3 or pick4...

                         

                        "Keno is "el diablo cazador de hombres..."............it kills people and you can't see it.....            ......from movie "Predator"....

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                          New Mexico
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                          March 10, 2005
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                          Posted: June 3, 2006, 7:09 pm - IP Logged

                          Just to prove that cracking an encryption is more difficult than the lotto:

                          http://products.secureserver.net/products/ssl_encryptionstrength_linux.htm

                          read the last paragraph where it say that a 128 bit encryption has 2^128 power possible combinations. I speculate the following. They got supercomputers that can make a trillion calculations per second, some do quadrillion. Before code breakers had to do it by hand. Imagine with a supercomputer it will take 1 second to go through all possible combinations or do the computations. Now,let me say this again. I am so confident they can crack the lotto because they got wheels nowadays. And guys, i do believe that there are "wheels" outhere that we haven't heard about; wheels that could do damage, they may take more than 1000 combinations but is possible...Guys if you use ratios, you can "weave" not wheel the numbers so good, that it could be a hot ass wheel...
                          You all think is not possible because you all think of the wheel of closed, but a wheel to be effective doesn't have to be closed, it can be open. Open wheels can do damage just as bad. Think what are the odds that a combination that has all numbers odd will play, in a RnG simulation an all-odd combination comes out once sometimes twice a month, and that's a pick6 playing everyday.? I also believe that there is a very ingenious way of weaving [not wheeling] bonus balls with the rest of the numbers all strategically and compactly[not key wheels either]...Now think about the Fl mega money, it pays 500,000 twice a week?There are patterns that existing technology/lotto-softwares can't tap into all of that with the existance of abbreviated wheels?men! please!..Who would try and crack a code that's more difficult, when they can try and crack a 500,000 twice a week environment?How much do code breakers make: )? Guys, and all you need is to receive that money once or twice, take it all and ingeniously invest it and not to mention the potential...All i have to say is, there are hot wheels outhere we know nothing about...You think lotterywheels.com is going to sell you a 500,000 a month deal? I am sure he don't make that kind of money monthly...Guys when i say cracking the lotto i mean pick5 and up, not pick3 or pick4...

                           

                          "Keno is "el diablo cazador de hombres..."............it kills people and you can't see it.....            ......from movie "Predator"....

                           "Keno is "el diablo cazador de hombres..."............it kills people and you can't see it.....            ......from movie "Predator"....

                           Pumpi:

                          Keno's just for people who are hard to kill, maybe.  I'm willing to wait until after the draw tonight to see whether it gets a bit of hair and blood, but I'm confident I'll survive whatever happens.

                          Wheels: 

                          I've never bought a wheel, but I've had occasion to buy a few used tires when times were hard.  There are lots of tires out there these days I never heard of, but most of them wouldn't be better off for my having heard of them. 

                          Sounds as though there's a facet of wheels you know about and I don't.  I'll confess to believing until now wheels were just a way of getting numbers onto a slip in as efficient a way as possible.  The need for wheels, I'd supposed until now, was the result of not narrowing down the picks sufficiently to fit them onto a ticket.

                          Jack

                           

                          Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                          It's about number behavior.

                          Egos don't count.

                           

                          Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                           

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                            Honduras
                            Member #20982
                            August 29, 2005
                            4715 Posts
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                            Posted: June 4, 2006, 12:15 am - IP Logged


                            ".....it changes color, like the chameleon....." you can't see it....plus there is no trap to catch it......"

                            I don't know in your state, but in mines, it plays every 4 minutes....and it skins them...

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                              Honduras
                              Member #20982
                              August 29, 2005
                              4715 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: June 4, 2006, 12:38 am - IP Logged

                              "...I don't know in your area, but here its hungry every 4 minutes....."

                               

                              ....there is nothing funny about losing in any Red Planet....