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Agent provacateurs

Topic closed. 133 replies. Last post 11 years ago by LOTTOMIKE.

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New Mexico
United States
Member #12305
March 10, 2005
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Posted: June 19, 2006, 2:56 pm - IP Logged

There's always been a systemic set of posts on LP (since I've been here) hinting, or coming right out and saying the people making the posts believed LP is infiltrated by the other side of the lottery game, the state and multi-state organizations.

Recently those kinds of hints appear to me to have increased.

Certainly there's no doubt the site is visited by members of the lottery organizations.  There's never been any subterfuge, never any secret about that.  It's entirely legitimate and anyone interested in seeing lottery operations succeed ought to wish for more, rather than less perusal of the site and consideration of the views of LP members.

Having said that, I've found myself asking whether there's not a darker side to the issue.  After thinking over something I've found mysterious from my early days here and the Alonzo Wright debacle, I wonder if the explanation for the acrimony, the pillorying of anyone who posts a hint, a claim that he/she has a system to beat the numbers.

I can understand anyone who chooses to believe the lotteries can't be beaten.  It's a legitimate side of the issue.

What I cannot understand is the venom, the calumnies some members choose to indulge in as expression of what they believe, directed at anyone who tosses out the opposing view as something possible.  What's the motive?  No one is slurring a religion.  No one is promoting the downfall of civilization.  No one is naming the ancestors of the disbelievers for what they probably were.

All they're doing is stating one of several beliefs.  They believe the numbers can be beaten.  Or they believe they have a system for beating them.

A reasonable response from a person who shares the interest in beating the lotteries:

"Prove it."

But that is almost never the way it goes.

Why would some LP members seem to believe they have an obligation to throw ice-water on any suggestion that lotteries might be beaten by a system?

Maybe they're here because, in fact, they do have that obligation to their employers.

I'm not saying it's true.  It might well not be.

It's difficult to see why it would be, given what lousy predictors we are.

On the other hand, lottery operations have a lot higher-powered computers and a lot higher paid pointee-headed employee geniuses than any of us are, have.

Maybe they know something we don't.  Maybe they know something they're willing to go to some trouble to try to keep us from finding out.

Or maybe there are just some LP members who are naturally inclined to behave as though that supposition is true, even if it isn't.

Agent provacateurs.  They've been around a long time.  Plenty long enough for the populations to know they exist in many environments.

And, as someone once said of God, if they don't exist, we'll be forced to invent them.

Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

It's about number behavior.

Egos don't count.

 

Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

 

    Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
    Chief Bottle Washer
    New Jersey
    United States
    Member #1
    May 31, 2000
    23351 Posts
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    Posted: June 19, 2006, 7:23 pm - IP Logged

    For those who are not aware of who "Alonzo Wright" is, there was a member called "biglooooser" who posted some messages ending in April 2005, and claimed to have some marvelous system that won most of the time.  (Although I never saw anything that even came close to proving it.)

    He would throw out large sets of numbers, but when you actually tested the numbers, they hit on about the same average as random numbers.  That's MY analysis.  Others may feel differently.

    Jack, I'm not exactly sure why you refer to it as a "debacle" -- maybe because nothing was ever proven?

    For those who are interested, all 93 posts that he ever made are easily and quickly available on the Lottery Post search engine:

    http://www.lotterypost.com/search.asp?q=biglooooser&tab=us&t=all

    BY THE WAY, some people have suggested lately that I delete old messages.  The TRUTH is that I never delete any messages (other than the obvious spam that is occasionally posted).  Also, all posts are automatically locked by the system after 30 days, so there is also no conspiracy that I have in locking threads I "don't like".  I simply picked 30 days when I created Lottery Post more than six years ago because I didn't want the board filled with old threads that people keep artificially bumping.

     

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      New Mexico
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      March 10, 2005
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      Posted: June 19, 2006, 7:31 pm - IP Logged

      Todd:

      Thanks for bumping the thread  the reply.

      I'll have to allow everyone interested who doesn't recall the Alonzo Wright episode to draw individual conclusions about why I referred to it as a debacle.

      Thanks for posting the link.  I was trying to locate it just the other day, but I was putting too few zeroes into his name.

      However, I'll plead innocent to believing, to even suggesting in jest that you deleted old threads.  Or if I did ever suggest it, I confess to being a black hearted liar.  Because I assure you I never believed that.

      Gracias, Todd

      Jack

      Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

      It's about number behavior.

      Egos don't count.

       

      Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

       

        Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
        Chief Bottle Washer
        New Jersey
        United States
        Member #1
        May 31, 2000
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        Posted: June 19, 2006, 7:39 pm - IP Logged

        Jack, sorry if you thought my last paragraph came off as accusatory.  It was actually something unrelated.  Lately a number of people have come to me asking why I deleted old messages they could not find, and it turns out that they were not searching more than the last year, and the messages they were looking for were older than that.

        By default, the Search page looks at the last year of posts.  If you want to search farther back than that, you need to adjust the range on the right side of the search page.

        When I first looked for Alonzo's posts, I noticed they were older than once year, so I added that bit so that people would know how to find them.

        Again, my apologies if you thought it was something negative about your post.

         

        Check the State Lottery Report Card
        What grade did your lottery earn?

         

        Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
        Help eliminate computerized drawings!

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          New Mexico
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          Posted: June 19, 2006, 7:56 pm - IP Logged

          Todd:

          No need to apologize to me ever.  I expect and think the best of you.  Always.

          You're the guy who provides this excellent site.  You are the guy who has every right to do all the things you don't do.

          And you are the guy who provides the best tools on the web for members who believe in themselves enough to try to find ways to beat the lotteries and are willing to help you cover the cost of providing those tools.

          I see this site as a place for people to come, if they wish, to try to discover ways to beat the lotteries.  You provide this site, and these tools, without ever suggesting they'll succeed.

          What the hell more could anyone ask of you?

          Jack

          Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

          It's about number behavior.

          Egos don't count.

           

          Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

           

            Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
            Chief Bottle Washer
            New Jersey
            United States
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            Posted: June 19, 2006, 10:09 pm - IP Logged

            Much appreciated Jack. Cheers

             

            Check the State Lottery Report Card
            What grade did your lottery earn?

             

            Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
            Help eliminate computerized drawings!

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              NASHVILLE, TENN
              United States
              Member #33372
              February 20, 2006
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              Posted: June 19, 2006, 10:36 pm - IP Logged

              Why would some LP members seem to believe they have an obligation to throw ice-water on any suggestion that lotteries might be beaten by a system?

              Rip Snorter

              IMHO, people are inclined to attack any system that does not correspond to their ideas. 

              I know this happens with me quite regularly.  I have read some ideas that I felt were so far out of this solar system that I wondered what color was the sky in their world. 

              Finally I had had enough as was going to make a highly inspired, poignant comment.  While writing such a blistering reply, calling them to task for even daring to propose such an outlandish idea, I came to the realization that not every one sees the lottory as I do.  I quickly deleted the reply and kept my opinions to myself.  (I kept my mouth shut).

              When I came to LP I was out of ideas.  This site and some of the threads to be found here restarted my interest in a system.  I was able to move forward.  I am presently up against a wall right now but, as long as Todd keeps this site up and running, I feel confident that I will reach the "golden shore". 

              I still feel the urge to reply negatively to some posts that pop up here but I manage to move on and not comment. 

               

              "Good luck to all who believe in systems.  We are the smart ones".

               

                Fibonacci's avatar - Lottery-050.jpg
                New York, NY
                United States
                Member #39471
                May 16, 2006
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                Posted: June 19, 2006, 10:44 pm - IP Logged

                Interesting....Bang Head

                $$$

                  four4me's avatar - gate1
                  MD
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                  June 18, 2003
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                  Posted: June 19, 2006, 10:55 pm - IP Logged
                  a system if you will that is created to beat the lottery. how ironic. given the fact the lotteries created odds against anyone doing such a thing. who knows how much statistical analysis they ran before they implemented said games. permutations they ran to see if their lottery matrix could be beaten by some generic code breaker. Knowing that from the moment they went public with the games that hundreds of thousands of people might try and devise a way to win said games. It's not that some creative person might not come up with a winning formula. it's the tremendous odds against anyone coming up with a winning formula that would work more than once. The odds they established for said game should be a clue as to what one would have to do to beat said odds. And one of those out comes is to spend and an amount not likely to be paid for by the average Joe.

                  without going into a three page drift about the fact that the drawing is random and the system is not. the system doesn't know what numbers will be drawn next but the persons intuition comes into play at that point. if one is very fortunate they might just input the correct numbers without even knowing which numbers might be drawn.

                  even if ones system did an analysis before the numbers were input, the system if you will is at the mercy of the drawing.

                  As far as I'm concerned if i were to devise a system i will be happy if it wins just once on that special day when i think it's my turn to win.

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                    New Mexico
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                    Posted: June 19, 2006, 11:35 pm - IP Logged

                    Why would some LP members seem to believe they have an obligation to throw ice-water on any suggestion that lotteries might be beaten by a system?

                     

                    Rip Snorter

                    IMHO, people are inclined to attack any system that does not correspond to their ideas. 

                    I know this happens with me quite regularly.  I have read some ideas that I felt were so far out of this solar system that I wondered what color was the sky in their world. 

                    Finally I had had enough as was going to make a highly inspired, poignant comment.  While writing such a blistering reply, calling them to task for even daring to propose such an outlandish idea, I came to the realization that not every one sees the lottory as I do.  I quickly deleted the reply and kept my opinions to myself.  (I kept my mouth shut).

                    When I came to LP I was out of ideas.  This site and some of the threads to be found here restarted my interest in a system.  I was able to move forward.  I am presently up against a wall right now but, as long as Todd keeps this site up and running, I feel confident that I will reach the "golden shore". 

                    I still feel the urge to reply negatively to some posts that pop up here but I manage to move on and not comment. 

                     

                    "Good luck to all who believe in systems.  We are the smart ones".

                     

                    Gasmeterguy:

                    I tip my hat to your wisdom.

                    I'm not bad about responding negatively to wild ideas.  I have too many of my own.

                    But I've surely been feeling sated reading the posts by all the experts naysaying whether it can be done, or can't.

                    Maybe it can't be done.  You think it can, and I think it can.  I'm betting you and I aren't even a smidgen dumber than those who believe it can't.

                    In fact, I'm betting you are smarter than them, and that I'm equally smart to them, though I drool some and dance for quarters down on the town square.

                    But those are the ones I'm prone to open up a can of verbal whupass on.  Guess I'm going to have to try to absorb some of your quietude and wisdom.

                    Jack

                    Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                    It's about number behavior.

                    Egos don't count.

                     

                    Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                     

                      JAP69's avatar - alas
                      South Carolina
                      United States
                      Member #6
                      November 4, 2001
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                      Posted: June 19, 2006, 11:50 pm - IP Logged




                      When anyone post a systems idea on the forum there are key words in the title and text of the message that will promote a view count and attack on the system.

                      Then on the other side of the coin I have seen posters that came on here in the pick three forum that were hitting on a regular basis. Some of those posters came under attack for not revealing the system they used. Did not take long for those posters to ride off in the sunset.

                      I am sure there are Lottery employees that visit this and other lottery related sites.
                      I read one interesting post where someone had a system that was making money in the lottery. They revealed the system to someone and shortly there after the state made changes in that game they were making money on.

                      Oo'Ka

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                        New Mexico
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                        Posted: June 20, 2006, 12:02 am - IP Logged




                        When anyone post a systems idea on the forum there are key words in the title and text of the message that will promote a view count and attack on the system.

                        Then on the other side of the coin I have seen posters that came on here in the pick three forum that were hitting on a regular basis. Some of those posters came under attack for not revealing the system they used. Did not take long for those posters to ride off in the sunset.

                        I am sure there are Lottery employees that visit this and other lottery related sites.
                        I read one interesting post where someone had a system that was making money in the lottery. They revealed the system to someone and shortly there after the state made changes in that game they were making money on.

                        Thanks for the reply, JAP69.  Worthy thoughts to consider.

                        The person who's reading over my shoulder read your post and commented, "So.  The lotteries KNOW it can be beaten!"

                        An astute lady, her.

                        J

                        Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                        It's about number behavior.

                        Egos don't count.

                         

                        Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                         

                          Winner1313's avatar - chi jpeg.jpg

                          United States
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                          May 21, 2006
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                          Posted: June 20, 2006, 12:22 am - IP Logged

                          Rip Snorter

                          From your last post to me, I have come to the conclusion you are indeed very clever, and may be one of those very Agent Provacateurs you talk about.

                          You seem angry that I plan to  predict based on the Alternate System.

                          And angry-er  because I mentioned the name of Alonzo.

                           By The Way I Did ot Invent The Alternate System. It was there before men came on the Earth.

                            Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
                            Zeta Reticuli Star System
                            United States
                            Member #30470
                            January 17, 2006
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                            Posted: June 20, 2006, 12:40 am - IP Logged

                            Rip Snorter

                            People probably do come here and "infiltrate" the board (probably most any board) but I think that would be different than any lotto commission would be after....

                            I think it would be much more likely that anyone working for a lotto commission and coming here would lurk, and monitor certin threads very closely, good old "data mining".

                             HELLO LOTTERY COMMISSION MONITORS

                            See Ya! 

                             

                            Maybe we should start putting up some polls with some really outlandish answers and feed the, skewed data, something like:

                             "I quit playing powerball and will not play again until the matrix goes to 100 on top and 99 on the bottom"

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                              New Mexico
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                              Posted: June 20, 2006, 1:31 am - IP Logged

                              Rip Snorter

                              From your last post to me, I have come to the conclusion you are indeed very clever, and may be one of those very Agent Provacateurs you talk about.

                              You seem angry that I plan to  predict based on the Alternate System.

                              And angry-er  because I mentioned the name of Alonzo.

                               By The Way I Did ot Invent The Alternate System. It was there before men came on the Earth.

                               By The Way I Did ot Invent The Alternate System. It was there before men came on the Earth.

                               Yeah I know you didn't.  That's what twigged me you're a damned liar.  When you claimed you'd developed it yourself in your thread on the Lottery Systems forum.

                              I was using that system before you were born.

                              Yeah, Winner, I'm an agent provacateur. 

                              You predict any way you like, Winnerman.  You ain't in my life, and you aren't in my consciousness.

                              Feel free to block me, as I've done with you effective now.  We'll both be more comfortable that way.

                              Jack

                               

                              Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                              It's about number behavior.

                              Egos don't count.

                               

                              Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser