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Agent provacateurs

Topic closed. 133 replies. Last post 10 years ago by LOTTOMIKE.

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cps10's avatar - Lottery-004.jpg
The Carolinas - Charlotte
United States
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September 12, 2005
4138 Posts
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Posted: June 20, 2006, 3:19 pm - IP Logged

Without a doubt. Common sense is usually a pretty good guide when dealing with certain things like that. And it's obvious that Jack uses a lot of common sense!

The North Carolina Education Lottery - so much a joke that here are their mascots:

Stooges

    LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
    Tennessee
    United States
    Member #7853
    October 15, 2004
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    Posted: June 20, 2006, 3:22 pm - IP Logged

    agent provacateur is also the name of an album by the rock group foreigner.it included the smash hit "i want to know what love is".

      cps10's avatar - Lottery-004.jpg
      The Carolinas - Charlotte
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      Member #21627
      September 12, 2005
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      Posted: June 20, 2006, 3:24 pm - IP Logged

      MIKE

      I wanna know what it is too...I think if I win substantial lottery money, I might know! LOL

      The North Carolina Education Lottery - so much a joke that here are their mascots:

      Stooges

        LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
        Tennessee
        United States
        Member #7853
        October 15, 2004
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        Posted: June 20, 2006, 3:25 pm - IP Logged

        Agent Provocateur,this is the album cover.sort of looks like one of those quilts you used to make jack.....

          Winner1313's avatar - chi jpeg.jpg

          United States
          Member #39744
          May 21, 2006
          163 Posts
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          Posted: June 20, 2006, 4:26 pm - IP Logged

          Rip Snorter

          Why do you attack me and my system? 

          Rip Snorter have been here for years, what have been your contribution to members, other that Your insults?

          It seems all you do here is pass wind--literally !!!ROFL

          And depending on your mood, hurl insults and Diminish the contribution of others. 

          Now You Know and Admit, the Alternate System has been here, before men walked the Earth.

          Will Rip Snorter apply the tecnique to pick his numbers?

          I Doubt It. 

          Over the years Rip Snorter have studied the systems etc, that others have given, have you benefited from them? Have you won the Big One ?

          I doubt it. 

          Have you won hundreds of thousands of dollars?

          I doubt it. I suspect  Rip Snorter have a gambeling  problem.

          And Perhaps a member of some Agency .

           Rip Snorter here is a true saying that applies to you.

          " Cast Pearls infrount of Swine, and they will turn back and rend you" 

            four4me's avatar - gate1
            MD
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            June 18, 2003
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            Posted: June 20, 2006, 4:48 pm - IP Logged

            A few thoughts about the thread, that gets weirder by the minute:

            1. Accusing Jack of being an "agent" for the state lotteries is so laughable that I really shouldn't even mention it, so I'm doing so only so that newbies don't get confused.
            2. I'm really confused when people say the lotteries make changes to their games in order to thwart peoples' winning systems.  Maybe someone could enlighten me as to what changes they could possibly make to thwart a system?  What, do they shine up the lottery balls 'specially shiney or something?  If someone could give me a concrete example of something a lottery has done to thwart players, I would be grateful.
            3. Yes, many state lottery representatives browse these forums, as they should.  Rather than thinking that they are somehow stealing vital information from the players, you guys (and gals) should be thankful that they are interested in what you are saying about their games.  We should be encouraging them to listen to us, rather than trying to throw up smoke screens to hide from them.  If you have concocted the "secret forumla" and don't want anyone to know, then don't post it on the public forums.  Doesn't that make sense?
            Ok I'll try and give some examples of how the lottery effectively change a posters system so he couldn't win using that system. Stgermain won lil lotto so many times using a system he developed. When he went to lottery H.Q. to cash tickets they knew him by first name. He inadvertently told someone about his system and they changed the matrix of the game ( added more balls. ) he hasn't been close ever since.

            In Maryland they stopped letting people pick the machines and ball sets they use for drawings. Now a computer picks the machines and ball sets they will use for each and every pick 3/4 game. If your system is designed around hits, skips, misses, and cold, hot numbers then it's flawed because humans are habitual in that they tend to favor certain things like selecting the same machines and balls for every drawing they conduct. When they took the human element out of the machine and ball selection they effectively change the out come of the drawings. to see how or what i am referring to just compare the last years drawing history with previous years. You can see a distinct change.

              JAP69's avatar - alas
              South Carolina
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              Posted: June 20, 2006, 5:58 pm - IP Logged

              Ok I'll try and give some examples of how the lottery effectively change a posters system so he couldn't win using that system. Stgermain won lil lotto so many times using a system he developed. When he went to lottery H.Q. to cash tickets they knew him by first name. He inadvertently told someone about his system and they changed the matrix of the game ( added more balls. ) he hasn't been close ever since.
              __________________________________________________

              You nailed it Four4me.
              That is what the lotteries do with a 5 ball and up game.

              If You look at the past history of lotteries in the states they start with a lower matrix in the game. Without even knowing what systems the players are using the lotteries will keep tabs on the avg weekly, monthly or whatever payout in the games to players. Must be when the players become more game savy and the payout increases they will change the matrix and sometimes the lower tier payout structure.
              Then when they do find out the system the constant winner is using they will change the game structure.

              In the pick 3 and 4 there is not much they can do except change ball sets, draw machines and things of that nature.

              WHATT

                RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                mid-Ohio
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                March 24, 2001
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                Posted: June 20, 2006, 8:16 pm - IP Logged

                Agent Provocateur,this is the album cover.sort of looks like one of those quilts you used to make jack.....

                "I Want to Know What Love Is" is a song recorded by Foreigner. It hit number one on the Billboard Hot 100 on February 2 in 1985.

                If you have Windows Media Player you can listen to a midi file of it here.
                http://www.angelfire.com/ok/luvnotes/images/whatloveis.mid

                 * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                   
                             Evil Looking       

                  Bryan's avatar - Lottery-002.jpg
                  Mid-Missouri
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                  Posted: June 20, 2006, 8:27 pm - IP Logged

                  The problem is, the people who do it don't match the description, ignorant, arrogant, stubborn, one senses.

                  I've watched this for an awfully long while.

                  These aren't trolls.  These are intelligent people, probably nice folks in their personal lives.  They're people a person could come to like, meeting them somewhere.

                  The only time they get nasty is during one particular circumstance.

                  So the question again emerges.

                  Why?  What motivates them to try to kill hope and innovation?

                  Nice folks who only change during the full moon?

                  Jack

                  Jack,

                  My guess is that alot of these people attack others because they have worked on beating this game for a very long time, putting in many many hours to do so. Then someone comes along that mentions a system that is similar to a trial that the attacker tried, but couldn't get it to work for them. And since it didn't work for them the whole idea must be wacky. What is amazing to me is some of the people here assume that a new poster is also new to the game. I have seen mention of this a few times. Admittedly, I have seen some newbies come in with guns ablazin' about how good they really are and that begs for attention and not the positive kind either. But some never give them the chance to live up to their claims either without drawing blood.

                  But for the most part, I think it is the fact some of the people here think they are by far the smartest people they know, and if they can't figure it out nobody else can either, especially a newbie. 

                  Sad, but I think true...

                  But you are definitely right, we have some piranha here!

                  Just my 2 cents worth,

                  Bryan  :)

                   

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                    Posted: June 20, 2006, 8:42 pm - IP Logged

                    I don't know why lottery agents would hang around much on here, as they have their own ways of testing their draw machines and procedures. They are concerned that the games remain fair and entirely based on luck so that everyone has an equal chance no matter how smart they are. The problem is that, under those conditions, the win/loss ratio is $1 won for every $2 spent, less than that if subject to taxes. The only games worth playing are where the prize is enough to change your life and that you'd have to keep losing for the next several years to be within the ratio again. Meaning that daily numbers games like Pick-3 and Pick-4 would be mostly worthless. If a game like that can be systemized to get at least a $1+ win per $1 bet then it's worth playing. It should be understood that people have different methods to pick numbers and if they don't like it then make every game quick-pick only and not let us pick numbers. (Example: PA's Millionaire Raffle and NY's King Kong Millions)

                    I keep my systems a closely guarded secret and always changing to adapt to different situations. I use information that is widely available to the public.

                    The only thing I might criticize is when something gets really far-fetched, like the idea that a drawing in one state affects another drawing several states away, or that a computerized midday drawing can predict a non-computerized evening drawing. Then I QUESTION it, that's all, so I can get an idea about what the theory is that gives rise to the particular system.

                      RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                      mid-Ohio
                      United States
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                      March 24, 2001
                      19813 Posts
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                      Posted: June 20, 2006, 8:54 pm - IP Logged

                      "But for the most part, I think it is the fact some of the people here think they are by far the smartest people they know, and if they can't figure it out nobody else can either, especially a newbie."....Bryan


                      These people are likely to continue to think that way until a LP member or someone else prove them wrong by winning a jackpot using a system.  Even then they may think it was just luck unless it's repeated.

                      RJOh

                       * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                         
                                   Evil Looking       

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                        New Mexico
                        United States
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                        March 10, 2005
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                        Posted: June 20, 2006, 9:01 pm - IP Logged

                        The problem is, the people who do it don't match the description, ignorant, arrogant, stubborn, one senses.

                        I've watched this for an awfully long while.

                        These aren't trolls.  These are intelligent people, probably nice folks in their personal lives.  They're people a person could come to like, meeting them somewhere.

                        The only time they get nasty is during one particular circumstance.

                        So the question again emerges.

                        Why?  What motivates them to try to kill hope and innovation?

                        Nice folks who only change during the full moon?

                        Jack

                        Jack,

                        My guess is that alot of these people attack others because they have worked on beating this game for a very long time, putting in many many hours to do so. Then someone comes along that mentions a system that is similar to a trial that the attacker tried, but couldn't get it to work for them. And since it didn't work for them the whole idea must be wacky. What is amazing to me is some of the people here assume that a new poster is also new to the game. I have seen mention of this a few times. Admittedly, I have seen some newbies come in with guns ablazin' about how good they really are and that begs for attention and not the positive kind either. But some never give them the chance to live up to their claims either without drawing blood.

                        But for the most part, I think it is the fact some of the people here think they are by far the smartest people they know, and if they can't figure it out nobody else can either, especially a newbie. 

                        Sad, but I think true...

                        But you are definitely right, we have some piranha here!

                        Just my 2 cents worth,

                        Bryan  :)

                         

                        Interesting thoughts, Bryan.

                        You might have hit upon the entire explanation.

                        You've almost certainly hit upon part of it.

                        Gracias,

                        Jack

                        Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                        It's about number behavior.

                        Egos don't count.

                         

                        Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                         

                          Avatar
                          New Mexico
                          United States
                          Member #12305
                          March 10, 2005
                          2984 Posts
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                          Posted: June 20, 2006, 9:09 pm - IP Logged

                          I don't know why lottery agents would hang around much on here, as they have their own ways of testing their draw machines and procedures. They are concerned that the games remain fair and entirely based on luck so that everyone has an equal chance no matter how smart they are. The problem is that, under those conditions, the win/loss ratio is $1 won for every $2 spent, less than that if subject to taxes. The only games worth playing are where the prize is enough to change your life and that you'd have to keep losing for the next several years to be within the ratio again. Meaning that daily numbers games like Pick-3 and Pick-4 would be mostly worthless. If a game like that can be systemized to get at least a $1+ win per $1 bet then it's worth playing. It should be understood that people have different methods to pick numbers and if they don't like it then make every game quick-pick only and not let us pick numbers. (Example: PA's Millionaire Raffle and NY's King Kong Millions)

                          I keep my systems a closely guarded secret and always changing to adapt to different situations. I use information that is widely available to the public.

                          The only thing I might criticize is when something gets really far-fetched, like the idea that a drawing in one state affects another drawing several states away, or that a computerized midday drawing can predict a non-computerized evening drawing. Then I QUESTION it, that's all, so I can get an idea about what the theory is that gives rise to the particular system.

                          LuckyLarry:

                          The only thing I might criticize is when something gets really far-fetched, like the idea that a drawing in one state affects another drawing several states away, or that a computerized midday drawing can predict a non-computerized evening drawing. Then I QUESTION it, that's all, so I can get an idea about what the theory is that gives rise to the particular system.

                          You've described a piece of a pet theory/project of mine.  Far fetched though it might be, (there are a couple of things about it you didn't get quite correct, but maybe someone's put it forward in the past and came at it a bit differently) I happen to think there's some merit to the idea.

                          However, I'm not evangelical about it.  I might have posted it one time or another, maybe on my blog, but if it works it can stand your QUESTIONS, though I would be unlikely to answer them.

                          Thanks for the comment.

                           Jack

                           

                          Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                          It's about number behavior.

                          Egos don't count.

                           

                          Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                           

                            Avatar
                            Amarillo/Austin
                            United States
                            Member #1424
                            April 25, 2003
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                            Posted: June 20, 2006, 9:17 pm - IP Logged

                            This thead is very interesting, so I'll jump in.

                            The fact is that anyone with a genuine winning system would be insane to share it for a number of reasons:

                            A. A winning secret would no longer be a secret.

                            B. If it was too widely shared, the states would change the game.

                            C. Many years of hard and valuable work would go right down the drain.

                            Why do posters fight over systems and denegrate others?  I suspect ego is the main reason.  True lottery system fans must have a high self esteem to continue the hunt for something the average person would scoff at.  Why?  Because we are told it is impossible to develop a system and we should just ask for a quick pick, cheerfully hand over our hard-earned money, smile and leave until the next time. 

                            That is the true goal of the state lottery commissions.  They are in business to make money for their employers and that means encouraging the belief that winning is sheer luck.  Without that belief, the lottery would collapse and we would lose the hope of building a goose that could lay a golden egg. 

                            In conclusion, the lottery commission's business plan is based on hope and resignation as much and the IRS's system is based on fear and the Wizard of Oz's system was based on awe and mystery.  They all have their business plan and, believe me, they work them like crazy. 

                            Would I be crass or heartless to keep my secrets to myself?  It depends on which side of the answer you reside.

                            Orangeman                                                          Big Grin

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                              New Mexico
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                              Posted: June 20, 2006, 9:35 pm - IP Logged

                              LANSING, June 19, 2006 - Some people might consider themselves lucky.  Then they meet Robert Thompson.

                              Thompson, a 51-year-old "professional" Lottery player from Saginaw, has won at least $500 in 10 different states, including West Virginia, Georgia, Indiana, Illinois and Kentucky, to name a few.  He's also won $5,000 "a couple of times."

                              While those wins are impressive, they don't match his most recent of win a $140,980 prize in the Michigan Lottery's Fantasy 5 game in the June 13 drawing.

                              This came from another thread .... it's being properly questioned there about how much he spent etc etc etc etc.

                               But for the sake of this thread lets make a few assumptions.  First, let's assume this guy is precisely what the blurb says he is.  A professional lottery play.  A person making a living off it.

                              Four4me, or JAP69 also mentioned someone who'd had a system and beat Ill Lill a Lot, enough so's they knew him by his first name at the lottery shop.  So they changed the matrix, but left him with his first name.

                              Let's assume these two stories are true.  Let's also assume LottoVantage has a system that works.  Let's, for this brief discussion, assume Alonzo White actually had a system that worked, and that his famous prediction was not a fluke.

                              If these stories are true and we've heard them, so have the lottery organizations.  They've probably heard a lot more of them than we have.

                              And if these stories, or even one of them is true, the lotteries know they can be beaten by system players.

                              Now, allowing for them knowing this truth (for the sake of discussion),

                              • Is it more probable, knowing human behavior where financial loss is concerned, they would simply sit back and attempt to do nothing about it?
                              • Or is it more probable they'd be pro-active in their attempts to discourage development of systems, to attempt to assure all players the systems can't be beaten?  Attempt to discourage any person they could identify as a system player, and cast aspersions, attempt to humiliate him on the issue?

                              If the basic premise is true I think the second is a lead-pipe cinch.

                              Now, where would the lotteries locate players who are inclined to develop systems, so's they could attempt to discourage them?

                              The only place I can think of is a website/forum.  The biggest and best they can find.  A website providing the best tools.  A website with a predictions page for members, which they'd find handy for keeping an eye open for people who might be moving in the direction of their bankrolls.

                              They'd do a websearch.  Peer at the horizon through a telescope.  And yell, "Laaaaaaand ahoy!"

                              So.  Maybe none of these stories we've all heard and many of us have seen are true.

                               

                              But there remains a burning question.

                              How would the jackals who attempt to kill any interest in lottery systems, who give their daily litanies across the threads about how systems cannot beat the lotteries,

                              How How How How would these people behave differently if they worked for the lotteries than they are behaving now?

                              Jack

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                              It's about number behavior.

                              Egos don't count.

                               

                              Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser