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The Implications of Cracking the Code..

Topic closed. 135 replies. Last post 9 years ago by RJOh.

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Posted: November 28, 2007, 2:09 pm - IP Logged

With all due respect, I would ask you to prove there is a code, and you can't because it doesn't exist.  I have shown you why it doesn't, now it's your turn to show me it does.  I do not take your tone to be combative.  We're good.

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    Posted: November 28, 2007, 2:14 pm - IP Logged

    There are 1,000 possible outcomes for 3 exact digits every time a drawing is conducted.  It's even possible to draw the same 3 digits two days in a row (I've done that) but the odds were 1,000 to 1 each time.  "...observation...better judgement..." has nothing to do with it.

      Grumple Dumple's avatar - Lottery-001.jpg

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      Posted: November 28, 2007, 2:37 pm - IP Logged

      With all due respect, I would ask you to prove there is a code, and you can't because it doesn't exist.  I have shown you why it doesn't, now it's your turn to show me it does.  I do not take your tone to be combative.  We're good.

      I am certainly not going to make a claim at this particular moment that I can "prove" the existence of a "code" [or any similarly unlikely phenomenon] within the Pick 3 and 4 and other type lottery games, but I am interested in what would happen if someone *did* actually "prove" the existence of such an unlikely thing to the world at large.

      Would you then believe in it tapper or do you think you might would continue to deny it for a time even in the face of irrefutable proof? And in finally accepting the existence of the code, how would you be affected by it? In what ways would its impact on you manifest?

      Those questions are meant for everyone else as well.

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        Posted: November 28, 2007, 2:58 pm - IP Logged

        We could go back and forth, forever, on this one and we would still be in the same place.  All I can say is, "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."

          four4me's avatar - gate1
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          Posted: November 28, 2007, 2:58 pm - IP Logged

          There are 1,000 possible outcomes for 3 exact digits every time a drawing is conducted.  It's even possible to draw the same 3 digits two days in a row (I've done that) but the odds were 1,000 to 1 each time.  "...observation...better judgement..." has nothing to do with it.

          Welcome aboard tapper7606 we welcome your expertise in drawing numbers and I'm sure there are people who might have lots of questions about how lottery drawings are conducted.


          There are some people on this site who swear they know beforehand what the next number is going to be in almost any pick 3 games state wise. Either they have developed a system that gets them into the ball park or they are using software to narrow down the selections. Some of these people have proved it by posting the numbers before the drawings. Some of the people are still on this site and some of them have left and not returned to post again. We have lots of skeptics here as well as people who follow these posters who seem to have the right selections for a particular drawing.

          I'm with you that it's mostly luck but there are people who track the numbers and have devised all kinds of methods to try and narrow down their selections. After all that's one of the reasons Todd created this site so people might come up with different methods for picking numbers to play.

          Nobody however has a code like Pumpi suggests. Pumpi is one of those people who for whatever reason thinks there is, or that there is some super computer that can predict without flaw any number for any game. (wishful thinking) on his part. Some of us have tried in vain to tell him that there is no way to predict numbers with any consistency day in day out. He refuses to believe this.

          Now this might seem strange to you suppose you could play pick 3 and 4 drawings off shore like some people do And they took bets of .25 cents .50 cents 1.00 and their payouts were better than your home state. And you could play your numbers across the board in (many states) if you were a gifted individual had the knack for picking numbers and played them across many states and won on a regular basis then you might have a slightly better edge so to speak of turning a profit by picking numbers.

          So lets say your number for that day was 123 hypothetical it could be any number and even a few numbers and you played them in all states boxed and straight. And on any given day your numbers come out in two or more states straight or boxed you have just funded your next plays and well we don't have to go on from here you just keep doing that.

          Some people on here have posted picks that can and have came out across different states. After all playing the lottery is about trying to win money.

          Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

                         I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.
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            Posted: November 28, 2007, 3:40 pm - IP Logged

            Thanks for the welcome, four4me.  I have read your earlier posts and find them to be rather accurate.

            Re: your hypothetical scenario.  Possible, but HIGHLY unlikely.  Statisically, one could go 999 days (which assumes $1 wagered straight per day on the same 3 digits) and not have a winner.  That's almost 3 years.  Yikes!  Now when you throw in boxed wagers that's a different situation.  You can have 3-way (all 3 digits different) and 6-way boxed numbers (two of the 3 digits alike), both with reduced payouts.  While boxed odds are smaller, so too is the payout.  Then there's the Straight/Box ticket (some Lotteries call it an Insurance wager), the Combination wager and the Wheel, but we are starting to get far a field. 

            We haven't even touched on how drawings are conducted.  That's a whole different topic and might help some ,who think the same balls are used each night, understand the randomness of the drawing results. Think of things such as multiple ball sets, gram weighing machines to weigh each ball, analysis of pre-draw test results.  I could go on, but I won't.   In some States there are the number machines that use a random number generator.  So when one talks about "the code" it makes me roll my eyes.

            Just remember what I said - Over the long haul the frequent player is going to lose - not maybe - for sure.  Don't bet the farm, you'll lose it.

            Later...........................

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              Posted: November 28, 2007, 4:35 pm - IP Logged

              I am certainly not going to make a claim at this particular moment that I can "prove" the existence of a "code" [or any similarly unlikely phenomenon] within the Pick 3 and 4 and other type lottery games, but I am interested in what would happen if someone *did* actually "prove" the existence of such an unlikely thing to the world at large.

              Would you then believe in it tapper or do you think you might would continue to deny it for a time even in the face of irrefutable proof? And in finally accepting the existence of the code, how would you be affected by it? In what ways would its impact on you manifest?

              Those questions are meant for everyone else as well.

              "I am interested in what would happen if someone *did* actually "prove" the existence of such an unlikely thing to the world at large."

              Have you ever seen a live ball drawing?

              You can use your imagination and think of ways a lottery could do something that could produce a predetermined outcome but if there was a code, they would have to do that something every drawing. It's a fact that live ball drawings can be rigged by an operator because this was done in Pennsylvania many years ago. But this was only done in one drawing, it was illegal, and the operator was prosecuted.

              One of the arguments against RNG drawings is that they could be programmed to search the wagering data base and produce an outcome that would favor the lottery. We could identify this as a code, but proving this code existed would prove the lottery or the operator was engaged in an illegal activity. The implications of solving this code would be somebody going to prison. 

              "Would you then believe in it tapper or would you continue to deny it even in the face of irrefutable proof?"

              I believe Tapper because state codes legally define the drawings as random and for there to be a code, the results would be predetermined.

              "And if you finally accepted the obvious proof, then what would the impact be on you? In what ways would you be changed?"

              It's OK to build a strawman, but you haven't offered any evidence how a code could be legally found in a random lottery drawing. It would help if you could give us just one reason why a lottery would create a code that could benefit the players.

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                Posted: November 28, 2007, 4:53 pm - IP Logged

                I am very familiar with the Pennsylvania illegal drawing (no, I did not work for the PA Lottery).  What they did could not be done today - too many checks and balances plus pre-draw procedures are video taped and independent auditors are present.

                RNG are in no way connected to the central system, it is prohibited.  That would be a security breach and no lottery would allow it.  So, they cannot search the wagered database.

                  Grumple Dumple's avatar - Lottery-001.jpg

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                  Posted: November 28, 2007, 5:02 pm - IP Logged

                  "I am interested in what would happen if someone *did* actually "prove" the existence of such an unlikely thing to the world at large."

                  Have you ever seen a live ball drawing?

                  You can use your imagination and think of ways a lottery could do something that could produce a predetermined outcome but if there was a code, they would have to do that something every drawing. It's a fact that live ball drawings can be rigged by an operator because this was done in Pennsylvania many years ago. But this was only done in one drawing, it was illegal, and the operator was prosecuted.

                  One of the arguments against RNG drawings is that they could be programmed to search the wagering data base and produce an outcome that would favor the lottery. We could identify this as a code, but proving this code existed would prove the lottery or the operator was engaged in an illegal activity. The implications of solving this code would be somebody going to prison. 

                  "Would you then believe in it tapper or would you continue to deny it even in the face of irrefutable proof?"

                  I believe Tapper because state codes legally define the drawings as random and for there to be a code, the results would be predetermined.

                  "And if you finally accepted the obvious proof, then what would the impact be on you? In what ways would you be changed?"

                  It's OK to build a strawman, but you haven't offered any evidence how a code could be legally found in a random lottery drawing. It would help if you could give us just one reason why a lottery would create a code that could benefit the players.

                  Hi Stack47.

                  Not sure, but I think maybe what I was referring to is being misunderstood.

                  I was referring to the possibility of some kind of objective information naturally-present within randomly-occurring numbers that could allow for correct future predictions [which is the kind of thing that I thought was being called a "code"] and was not making any reference to the lottery "creating" a code to benefit players.

                  Apparently I have been misunderstanding what the use of the term "code" actually refers to in this thread.

                   

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                    Posted: November 28, 2007, 5:36 pm - IP Logged

                    I don't believe there's a code that can predict the next numbers to be drawn during a random drawing but I do believe there may be patterns in past drawings that once identified could help one reduce the number pool and have all the winning numbers most of the time resulting in better odds of winning something.  Many have tried to find such patterns, some even using AI software but I'm not aware of any one who has.  I think the word code is being confused with the word patterns in this thread.

                     * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                       
                                 Evil Looking       

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                      Posted: November 28, 2007, 6:04 pm - IP Logged

                      I am very familiar with the Pennsylvania illegal drawing (no, I did not work for the PA Lottery).  What they did could not be done today - too many checks and balances plus pre-draw procedures are video taped and independent auditors are present.

                      RNG are in no way connected to the central system, it is prohibited.  That would be a security breach and no lottery would allow it.  So, they cannot search the wagered database.

                      Would it be possible to program an RNG so each drawing result would be 3 different digits (4 different in a pick-4 game) in every drawing?

                      "That would be a security breach and no lottery would allow it."

                      I apologize for using your comments out of context, but I have to question lottery security after what happen in the Tennessee lottery. After the fact they claimed there was an error in the program but there is a LP member that posted an email from somebody in the Tennessee Lottery saying that security had check the program and it did indeed draw double numbers before the error was found.

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                        Posted: November 28, 2007, 6:46 pm - IP Logged

                        Hi Stack47.

                        Not sure, but I think maybe what I was referring to is being misunderstood.

                        I was referring to the possibility of some kind of objective information naturally-present within randomly-occurring numbers that could allow for correct future predictions [which is the kind of thing that I thought was being called a "code"] and was not making any reference to the lottery "creating" a code to benefit players.

                        Apparently I have been misunderstanding what the use of the term "code" actually refers to in this thread.

                         

                        "Apparently I have been misunderstanding what the use of the term "code" actually refers to in this thread."

                        A better topic would be "the implications of finding a method of choosing numbers along with a betting strategy that consistently shows a profit every year".

                        In this thread the use of the term code is based on the assumption states lotteries planted money trees and would still run their games at a loss if somebody had access to a Super Computer and could win billions. In real life it takes no imagination to understand the implications of that; the game would end.

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                          Posted: November 28, 2007, 7:09 pm - IP Logged

                          "Apparently I have been misunderstanding what the use of the term "code" actually refers to in this thread."

                          A better topic would be "the implications of finding a method of choosing numbers along with a betting strategy that consistently shows a profit every year".

                          In this thread the use of the term code is based on the assumption states lotteries planted money trees and would still run their games at a loss if somebody had access to a Super Computer and could win billions. In real life it takes no imagination to understand the implications of that; the game would end.

                          I Agree!Stack47, your points have been stated many ways by many people.

                          In fact, I even went through the trouble of explaining how to access the equivalent computing power of this "super computer", because that was the 'only thing missing'.

                          That, of course, was met by this thread taking off on some wild tangent.

                          I think some folks are more interested in flights of fancy (which usually involve poor math skills) than the nuts and bolts of any real-world possibilities.

                          I'd be a straight p3 shooter

                          If I had a super computer

                          The Lottery would call me "such-a-pain"... 

                          I would take away their millions

                          Or was is billions?, or maybe trillions?

                          When you're bad at math, it's all the same...

                          In neo-conned Amerika, bank robs you.
                          Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a govnoment agency.

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                            Posted: November 28, 2007, 7:47 pm - IP Logged

                            I Agree!Stack47, your points have been stated many ways by many people.

                            In fact, I even went through the trouble of explaining how to access the equivalent computing power of this "super computer", because that was the 'only thing missing'.

                            That, of course, was met by this thread taking off on some wild tangent.

                            I think some folks are more interested in flights of fancy (which usually involve poor math skills) than the nuts and bolts of any real-world possibilities.

                            I'd be a straight p3 shooter

                            If I had a super computer

                            The Lottery would call me "such-a-pain"... 

                            I would take away their millions

                            Or was is billions?, or maybe trillions?

                            When you're bad at math, it's all the same...

                            I did a search and last April Pacattack05 wrote:

                            I believe that there is a code to be cracked, however, it will be out of reach to the mere mortal for a long time to come. I say this because the code is so complex and ever changing. I'm talking about hitting on a daily basis.When someone finds the cure to the common cold, then maybe we'll have a fair shot, but until then, there are just way too many variables involved.

                            And I don't think we necessarily want a cure for the cold, because it actually helps to boost our immune system, but that's a another topic."

                            But at least they explained what they meant by "code". In this thread we have been going from one extreme to the other.

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                              Posted: November 28, 2007, 7:59 pm - IP Logged

                              Stack47 - I am not a programmer so I cannot answer your question.  However, what you propose would not allow for random generation of numbers.

                              I am only peripherally aware of the Tennessee Lottery issue and I don't know the details, but feel certain I can get them.  Without that detail I cannot speak to the Tennessee security issue.  Let me see what I can find out.

                                 
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