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Will debt ceiling be increased?

Topic closed. 260 replies. Last post 5 years ago by joker17.

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Will the U.S debt ceiling be increased?

YES [ 43 ]  [84.31%]
NO [ 8 ]  [15.69%]
Total Valid Votes [ 51 ]  
Discarded Votes [ 3 ]  
rdgrnr's avatar - walt
Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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Posted: July 31, 2011, 10:19 pm - IP Logged

I'm assuming most of the Tea Party members in the House will vote against the Republican and Democrat leadership compromise bill. It's going to be interesting in 2012 because it looks like the Tea Party is evolving into a viable third party.

Finally, politicians who keep their word and stand on principle, God bless 'em.


                                             
                     
                                         

 

 

 

 

                                                                                                   

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                            --Edmund Burke

 

 

    sully16's avatar - sharan
    Ringleader
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    Posted: July 31, 2011, 10:21 pm - IP Logged

    I'm assuming most of the Tea Party members in the House will vote against the Republican and Democrat leadership compromise bill. It's going to be interesting in 2012 because it looks like the Tea Party is evolving into a viable third party.

    maybe ,maybe not, I have been watching Greta, seems like any savings will be long gone if obamacare kicks in, we need real leadership and we don't have it.

    Did you exchange a walk on part in the war ?

    For a lead role in a cage?

     

                                                From Pink Floyd's " Wish you were here"

      rdgrnr's avatar - walt
      Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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      Posted: July 31, 2011, 10:23 pm - IP Logged

      anybody read atlas shrugged? its scary. its happening to us now.

      Yep.

      And the mindless minions are lining up in the chutes.


                                                   
                           
                                               

       

       

       

       

                                                                                                         

      "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                  --Edmund Burke

       

       

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        DFW, Texas
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        Posted: July 31, 2011, 10:56 pm - IP Logged

        There's a difference between cutting spending the raising the debt ceiling.  They're entirely separate issues.

        For clarification, raising the debt ceiling has nothing to do with future spending; it has to do with past spending.  The increase would not give the president more money to spend on whatever he wants; it would give more money to spend as Congress has appropriated.  Trying to reduce spending by not raising the ceiling is like spending a bunch on a credit card and then deciding to cut spending by not paying the bill.  That's insanity.  You stop using the card, but you don't stop paying the bill.

        Spending needs to be cut, but by reducing future spending, not by breaking existing obligations.  We have not only legal and constitutionally-protected agreements, but also honorable agreements.  Many people complain, rightly so, about the diminution of constitutional protections, but then turn around and cheer for further diminution by supporting default, which violates the Fourteenth Amendment.  If you think we have a system worth saving, you shouldn't be in favor of its further destruction.  If you think America is already doomed because of the liberals, or the conservatives, whichever is your bogeyman, then nothing the government does really matters.

        I'm reluctant to discuss either politics or religion, because they're both unresolvably divisive.  And particularly reluctant here, as, with some exceptions, they have nothing to do with lotteries.  My intent here is to express support for reasonable thought and opposition to partisan rhetoric.

        I believe we need to look at the real issues and work for a fact-based agreement, but Washington can barely tie its own shoes, and the people are becoming increasingly and intransigently partisan, so I just submit this little rant here to be ignored.

          rdgrnr's avatar - walt
          Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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          Posted: July 31, 2011, 11:10 pm - IP Logged

          There's a difference between cutting spending the raising the debt ceiling.  They're entirely separate issues.

          For clarification, raising the debt ceiling has nothing to do with future spending; it has to do with past spending.  The increase would not give the president more money to spend on whatever he wants; it would give more money to spend as Congress has appropriated.  Trying to reduce spending by not raising the ceiling is like spending a bunch on a credit card and then deciding to cut spending by not paying the bill.  That's insanity.  You stop using the card, but you don't stop paying the bill.

          Spending needs to be cut, but by reducing future spending, not by breaking existing obligations.  We have not only legal and constitutionally-protected agreements, but also honorable agreements.  Many people complain, rightly so, about the diminution of constitutional protections, but then turn around and cheer for further diminution by supporting default, which violates the Fourteenth Amendment.  If you think we have a system worth saving, you shouldn't be in favor of its further destruction.  If you think America is already doomed because of the liberals, or the conservatives, whichever is your bogeyman, then nothing the government does really matters.

          I'm reluctant to discuss either politics or religion, because they're both unresolvably divisive.  And particularly reluctant here, as, with some exceptions, they have nothing to do with lotteries.  My intent here is to express support for reasonable thought and opposition to partisan rhetoric.

          I believe we need to look at the real issues and work for a fact-based agreement, but Washington can barely tie its own shoes, and the people are becoming increasingly and intransigently partisan, so I just submit this little rant here to be ignored.

          I understand what you're saying, Longarm, but we get sucked in everytime by the same lame excuses like that one, as pressing as it is. So we go ahead and raise the ceiling to cover our committments again and what always happens? They do it all over again and say we have to raise it again for the same reasons as last time.

          People are just getting fed up with the BS and you can't blame them.

          You have to draw the line somewhere.


                                                       
                               
                                                   

           

           

           

           

                                                                                                             

          "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                      --Edmund Burke

           

           

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            DFW, Texas
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            Posted: July 31, 2011, 11:28 pm - IP Logged

            I understand what you're saying, Longarm, but we get sucked in everytime by the same lame excuses like that one, as pressing as it is. So we go ahead and raise the ceiling to cover our committments again and what always happens? They do it all over again and say we have to raise it again for the same reasons as last time.

            People are just getting fed up with the BS and you can't blame them.

            You have to draw the line somewhere.

            We have to cut spending in the future.  We can't unspend money in the past.  The debt ceiling increase is not an appropriation.  We can increase the debt ceiling and make good on our obligations and at the same time cut future spending.  The most frustrating thing now for me is that people see an increase of trillions of dollars and assume it's more money spent.  It isn't more money spent, it's money that's already been spent.  The debate now is over whether to pay the bill.

            This hell should be raised when Congress is working on the budget.  That's how you cut spending.

            If we miss a debt payment, it's an invitation to China to come in and repossess the collateral.  While much of our military is on the other side of the planet and we may more may not have money to get them home, or send them supplies.  I don't seriously expect an invasion, but this is what's at stake.  It isn't just pork and waste, we may or may not have money to pay our troops, or get them supplies and fuel, or have a way to get them out of war zones.  I would vote against taking the risk of leaving our troops stranded.  This isn't like failure to pass a budget; there are no "essential personnel" who continue to get paid.  Everything would be on the chopping block, and there may or may not be money for it on any particular day.

            We should save this wrath for the budget, where it belongs.  It seems to me that our servants misguide us so we spend all this energy in the wrong place.

              rdgrnr's avatar - walt
              Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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              Posted: July 31, 2011, 11:47 pm - IP Logged

              We have to cut spending in the future.  We can't unspend money in the past.  The debt ceiling increase is not an appropriation.  We can increase the debt ceiling and make good on our obligations and at the same time cut future spending.  The most frustrating thing now for me is that people see an increase of trillions of dollars and assume it's more money spent.  It isn't more money spent, it's money that's already been spent.  The debate now is over whether to pay the bill.

              This hell should be raised when Congress is working on the budget.  That's how you cut spending.

              If we miss a debt payment, it's an invitation to China to come in and repossess the collateral.  While much of our military is on the other side of the planet and we may more may not have money to get them home, or send them supplies.  I don't seriously expect an invasion, but this is what's at stake.  It isn't just pork and waste, we may or may not have money to pay our troops, or get them supplies and fuel, or have a way to get them out of war zones.  I would vote against taking the risk of leaving our troops stranded.  This isn't like failure to pass a budget; there are no "essential personnel" who continue to get paid.  Everything would be on the chopping block, and there may or may not be money for it on any particular day.

              We should save this wrath for the budget, where it belongs.  It seems to me that our servants misguide us so we spend all this energy in the wrong place.

              The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

              Like I said, you have to draw the line somewhere instead of doing what they say to avoid the doom and gloom scenario they paint for us every time they do this.

              You say the hell should be raised when Congress is working on the budget. Yes, it should be but they haven't worked on a budget in how long now, 4 years?

              And the fact of the matter is it wouldn't get done then and there's nothing we could do about it anyway and they know it. Are we going to march in the streets with signs saying "Draw up a Budget!"?  See how many people you can recruit for that.

              And there is plenty of money to pay the interest on our debt, the military, social security, medicare and medicaid and all our other major debts anyway. There would be no reason whatsoever to default. Those are just scare tactics used by the democrats to get their way. We might have to stop funding research to find out why Chinese lesbian prostitutes drink so much and things like that though.

              But our tax revenue income is way more than we need to pay all of the really important stuff. Default is just a scare tactic.

              That's why we need to call their bluff and say no, no more, it stops right here, right now.


                                                           
                                   
                                                       

               

               

               

               

                                                                                                                 

              "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                          --Edmund Burke

               

               

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                DFW, Texas
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                Posted: August 1, 2011, 12:07 am - IP Logged

                The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

                Like I said, you have to draw the line somewhere instead of doing what they say to avoid the doom and gloom scenario they paint for us every time they do this.

                You say the hell should be raised when Congress is working on the budget. Yes, it should be but they haven't worked on a budget in how long now, 4 years?

                And the fact of the matter is it wouldn't get done then and there's nothing we could do about it anyway and they know it. Are we going to march in the streets with signs saying "Draw up a Budget!"?  See how many people you can recruit for that.

                And there is plenty of money to pay the interest on our debt, the military, social security, medicare and medicaid and all our other major debts anyway. There would be no reason whatsoever to default. Those are just scare tactics used by the democrats to get their way. We might have to stop funding research to find out why Chinese lesbian prostitutes drink so much and things like that though.

                But our tax revenue income is way more than we need to pay all of the really important stuff. Default is just a scare tactic.

                That's why we need to call their bluff and say no, no more, it stops right here, right now.

                I don't know how much money there is, or will be.  I assume and hope the military has a savings account somewhere because they know how crazy Congress can be.

                I can't state facts here because I don't know the financial situation that well.  I doubt if the people whose job it is to figure this stuff out know, either.  I prefer not to take these chances.  Even if the revenue is there, it may not be there at the right time.  There are annual and quarterly tax payments that may be sufficient, but too late, to cover obligations.  For example, quarterly payments will be due in September.  Even if they'd cover the payments due in August, they'll be too late.

                The road to Hell may be paved with good intentions, but that doesn't mean we ought to throw out all good intentions.

                I'd rather put this pressure when appropriations are being worked on rather than risk default, or risk default by hoping and assuming there's enough money and there will be no surprises, no disasters, no increases in war zone violence, no economic slowdowns and tax revenue reductions, etc.  I just don't like that risk.  But then, I rarely spend more than a few dollars a week on lottery tickets.  I'm glad the issue has finally gotten attention, but I think this is the wrong target.  I really think there must be a more orderly way to accomplish a goal.

                A long-term goal I'm more hopeful for now is increased political  participation.  Now that people have seen how much the people they elect can affect our lives, maybe they'll pay more attention.  Hopefully it won't take a crisis to get people to pay attention in the future.

                  rdgrnr's avatar - walt
                  Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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                  Posted: August 1, 2011, 12:22 am - IP Logged

                  I don't know how much money there is, or will be.  I assume and hope the military has a savings account somewhere because they know how crazy Congress can be.

                  I can't state facts here because I don't know the financial situation that well.  I doubt if the people whose job it is to figure this stuff out know, either.  I prefer not to take these chances.  Even if the revenue is there, it may not be there at the right time.  There are annual and quarterly tax payments that may be sufficient, but too late, to cover obligations.  For example, quarterly payments will be due in September.  Even if they'd cover the payments due in August, they'll be too late.

                  The road to Hell may be paved with good intentions, but that doesn't mean we ought to throw out all good intentions.

                  I'd rather put this pressure when appropriations are being worked on rather than risk default, or risk default by hoping and assuming there's enough money and there will be no surprises, no disasters, no increases in war zone violence, no economic slowdowns and tax revenue reductions, etc.  I just don't like that risk.  But then, I rarely spend more than a few dollars a week on lottery tickets.  I'm glad the issue has finally gotten attention, but I think this is the wrong target.  I really think there must be a more orderly way to accomplish a goal.

                  A long-term goal I'm more hopeful for now is increased political  participation.  Now that people have seen how much the people they elect can affect our lives, maybe they'll pay more attention.  Hopefully it won't take a crisis to get people to pay attention in the future.

                  I see and understand that your concern is genuine, Longarm, but doing what they want us to do has never accomplished anything. Why would we do what we've always done and expect a different result?  We'll just guarantee ourselves more of the same down the road again.

                  The money is there, I've seen the figures but don't recall them off the top of my head but they were surprised by even more tax revenue coming in than expected.

                  The only pressure you can put on them when appropriations are being worked out is with a Constitutional Balanced Budget Amendment which is anathema to democrats. They don't believe they should spend less than they take in like 49 states do and most of the citizens.

                  That's why you have to force-feed reform. There is no other way.

                  They need to learn they work for us and it's our way or the hi-way.


                                                               
                                       
                                                           

                   

                   

                   

                   

                                                                                                                     

                  "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                              --Edmund Burke

                   

                   

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                    DFW, Texas
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                    Posted: August 1, 2011, 1:07 am - IP Logged

                    I see and understand that your concern is genuine, Longarm, but doing what they want us to do has never accomplished anything. Why would we do what we've always done and expect a different result?  We'll just guarantee ourselves more of the same down the road again.

                    The money is there, I've seen the figures but don't recall them off the top of my head but they were surprised by even more tax revenue coming in than expected.

                    The only pressure you can put on them when appropriations are being worked out is with a Constitutional Balanced Budget Amendment which is anathema to democrats. They don't believe they should spend less than they take in like 49 states do and most of the citizens.

                    That's why you have to force-feed reform. There is no other way.

                    They need to learn they work for us and it's our way or the hi-way.

                    Thank you for the discussion.  I appreciate variance of opinion and negotiation.  Although I understand the need for more drastic measures when people are unyielding and intransigent.  I'm unhappy about the debt problem, but my primary concern is about the increasing partisanship and decreasing ability to conduct business, on top of the long-existing high-spending power trip that goes on in Washington.

                    This seems like we're headed toward all kinds of bad things, but everything people do makes it worse.  And the politicians care only about being able to blame the other side after both sides work together to make things worse.  I don't have a solution to propose, but I do my best to understand the issues as fact, regardless of rhetoric.  I don't know if it's just because I'm getting older and hopefully wiser, or if the world is actually getting more crazy, but I notice our elected representatives doing increasingly stupid things, and voters seem to be increasingly partisan and bull-headed.

                    In Texas, a lot of conservative Democrats became Republican in the 90s, as part of a trend across the South.  The last Democrat county commissioner in my county was voted out of office a few years back.  He was the most conservative member of the commissioners court, and every year was the only on who had money left in his precinct's account.  But because he was a Democrat, he had to go.  He was replaced with a Republican who does a fine job but, still, doesn't have the same fiscal discipline.

                    It's getting to the point where I think I'm more likely to win a Mega-Millions jackpot than to ever see our political system start to resemble sanity.

                      Bondi Junction
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                      Posted: August 1, 2011, 1:19 am - IP Logged

                      They should also set up a US LOTTO to help address the deficit. It would raise billions every year and I believe people would participate if they thought the revenue was helping to addressing the issue.

                      We all get a lot out of lotteries!

                        Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
                        Zeta Reticuli Star System
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                        Posted: August 1, 2011, 1:23 am - IP Logged

                        They should also set up a US LOTTO to help address the deficit. It would raise billions every year and I believe people would participate if they thought the revenue was helping to addressing the issue.

                        Sounds good "on paper" but never works out in reality.

                        If it did, no state with a lottery would be hurting right now, states with lotteries would have the best schools in the country and highest paid teachers...but it never comes out that way.

                        Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                        Lep

                        There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

                          Raven62's avatar - binary
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                          Posted: August 1, 2011, 10:49 am - IP Logged

                          Just wondering how many of you are with me on this one? I voted yes, it's obvious.

                          http://www.lotterypost.com/thread/234726

                          A mind once stretched by a new idea never returns to its original dimensions!

                            Avatar
                            Kentucky
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                            Posted: August 1, 2011, 10:59 am - IP Logged

                            maybe ,maybe not, I have been watching Greta, seems like any savings will be long gone if obamacare kicks in, we need real leadership and we don't have it.

                            We elect the entire House of Representatives every two years and twice in the last four years the majority changed drastically. The difference in the last swing was the new members of the majority party didn't follow their party leadership. Because Representative must spend lots of money to effectively run a reelection campaign, donations from special interest groups come into play.

                            Had to chuckle when I noticed two people voted "no" after it was announced a deal had been made.

                              Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
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                              Posted: August 1, 2011, 3:00 pm - IP Logged

                              Stack47,

                              Re: the two after-the-fact no votes, maybe Harry Reid and Nancy Pellosi are members here on LP!

                              Scared

                              Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                              Lep

                              There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

                                 
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