upstate NY United States Member #108791 March 31, 2011 549 Posts Offline

Posted: March 4, 2012, 7:27 pm - IP Logged

Thrifty said: "There is nothing wrong with buying 1 lottery ticket at some time in the future to have a chance of winning a jackpot."

Nobody said there was anything wrong with that. YOU, on the other hand, seem to have a HUGE problem with anyone buying more than one ticket at a time. There's nothing wrong with playing two, three, or even more lines per game, either, as long as you can afford it. Far be it any of us to say whether someone's personal lottery-playing preferences are "right" or "wrong".

Zeta Reticuli Star System United States Member #30470 January 17, 2006 10649 Posts Offline

Posted: March 5, 2012, 12:26 am - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by Guru101 on March 4, 2012

If buying more lines doesn't improve your odds, then WHY would anyone do it? Come on, simplifying a fraction is learned in grade school.

5/20 = 1/4.

Same thing applies when buying 5 lines in the lottery:

5/175,000,000 = 1/35,000,000.

It amazes me the number of people on here that don't know how to simplify a fraction.

Guru101,

If buying more tickets does improve your odds why, oh why, would you stop at 5 lines?

Using your exampleabove, if 5/175,000,000 reduced the odds to 1/35,000,000 WHY STOP THERE? If it worked people with serious money would be pounding it.

How about playing 175,000 lines and taking the odds down to 1/1000? That's the odds on one number in Pick 3 and pretty popular.

Or why don't 10 people with the means to do so wait until the jackpot is pumped up, play 1,750,000 lines each and wait to collect the money? There is one, and only one set of sinning numbers drawn - not one set of winning numbers drawn for each line played. That's why the fraction approach isn't valid.

You can play with fractions all you want but every line played only reduces the possible combinations by one. The "magic bullet" theory or in this case "magic second dollar" or magic "second line played" can do no more than that.

Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

Taunton, Ma United States Member #123005 February 11, 2012 136 Posts Offline

Posted: March 5, 2012, 3:11 am - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by Coin Toss on March 5, 2012

Guru101,

If buying more tickets does improve your odds why, oh why, would you stop at 5 lines?

Using your exampleabove, if 5/175,000,000 reduced the odds to 1/35,000,000 WHY STOP THERE? If it worked people with serious money would be pounding it.

How about playing 175,000 lines and taking the odds down to 1/1000? That's the odds on one number in Pick 3 and pretty popular.

Or why don't 10 people with the means to do so wait until the jackpot is pumped up, play 1,750,000 lines each and wait to collect the money? There is one, and only one set of sinning numbers drawn - not one set of winning numbers drawn for each line played. That's why the fraction approach isn't valid.

You can play with fractions all you want but every line played only reduces the possible combinations by one. The "magic bullet" theory or in this case "magic second dollar" or magic "second line played" can do no more than that.

People stop at what they can afford

People with serious money don't need to play the lottery. You're making the assumption that they would play just because they may have the money to reduce the odds. You assume that they don't have better ways to invest they're money.

Why would anyone wager $175,000 on a 1 in a thousand chance?, You're defeating your own argument. Even if this imaginary person had the cash to widdle the odds down to a 50/50 bet by playing 87,000,000 combinations, It's still only a 50/50 and who might I ask would ever wager $87,000,000 on a 50/50 bet? Only a crazy person.

Playing all the combinations is a losing bet because the jackpot will never amount to the investment needed to cover them all. You're making terrible arguments to support your case.

In the end you're arguing against irrifutable facts backed by basic math. Playing more combinations DOES increase your odds period. The difference is just extremely small. You're looking at it all wrong becuse by playing 2 tickets we've cut the odds from 1-175,000,000 to 1-87,000,000 that somehow it won't take long or something to get those odds down to a managble number wrong, It's exponential growth in reverse. It's still gonna take 87,000,000 combos just to get down to 50/50.

If you want to say that playing more tickets makes such a small difference that maybe it's not worth it fine. However making this absolutely FALSE claim that more tickets does not increase your odds then you might as well say that grass isn't green, the earth isn't round and gravity is a figment of my imagination because last I checked 2 is more than 1 and any number can be divided and odds can always be expressed as fractions and fractions can always be simplified.

NY United States Member #23835 October 16, 2005 3779 Posts Offline

Posted: March 5, 2012, 3:31 am - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by Coin Toss on March 5, 2012

Guru101,

If buying more tickets does improve your odds why, oh why, would you stop at 5 lines?

Using your exampleabove, if 5/175,000,000 reduced the odds to 1/35,000,000 WHY STOP THERE? If it worked people with serious money would be pounding it.

How about playing 175,000 lines and taking the odds down to 1/1000? That's the odds on one number in Pick 3 and pretty popular.

Or why don't 10 people with the means to do so wait until the jackpot is pumped up, play 1,750,000 lines each and wait to collect the money? There is one, and only one set of sinning numbers drawn - not one set of winning numbers drawn for each line played. That's why the fraction approach isn't valid.

You can play with fractions all you want but every line played only reduces the possible combinations by one. The "magic bullet" theory or in this case "magic second dollar" or magic "second line played" can do no more than that.

We stop at some reasonable point because the lottery only gives back half of the money players spend.

We wouldn't buy 175,000 lines because doing so costs $175,000. A 1 in 1000 chance is good compared to a 1 in 175 million chance, but not when it costs $175,000 and there's still a 99.9% chance you'll lose most of that money.

None of that changes the fact that buying more tickets increases your odds of winning, and it does so in direct proportion to the number of tickets you buy.

Not getting the math quite right would be one thing. Asking these questions tells us that it's far more than just the math that confuses you.

NEW YORK United States Member #90535 April 29, 2010 12273 Posts Offline

Posted: March 5, 2012, 9:08 am - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by Bigheadnick on March 5, 2012

People stop at what they can afford

People with serious money don't need to play the lottery. You're making the assumption that they would play just because they may have the money to reduce the odds. You assume that they don't have better ways to invest they're money.

Why would anyone wager $175,000 on a 1 in a thousand chance?, You're defeating your own argument. Even if this imaginary person had the cash to widdle the odds down to a 50/50 bet by playing 87,000,000 combinations, It's still only a 50/50 and who might I ask would ever wager $87,000,000 on a 50/50 bet? Only a crazy person.

Playing all the combinations is a losing bet because the jackpot will never amount to the investment needed to cover them all. You're making terrible arguments to support your case.

In the end you're arguing against irrifutable facts backed by basic math. Playing more combinations DOES increase your odds period. The difference is just extremely small. You're looking at it all wrong becuse by playing 2 tickets we've cut the odds from 1-175,000,000 to 1-87,000,000 that somehow it won't take long or something to get those odds down to a managble number wrong, It's exponential growth in reverse. It's still gonna take 87,000,000 combos just to get down to 50/50.

If you want to say that playing more tickets makes such a small difference that maybe it's not worth it fine. However making this absolutely FALSE claim that more tickets does not increase your odds then you might as well say that grass isn't green, the earth isn't round and gravity is a figment of my imagination because last I checked 2 is more than 1 and any number can be divided and odds can always be expressed as fractions and fractions can always be simplified.

The only way to increase or decrease the Odds of any lottery game is by changing the game matrix. The Odds are the equation of the game.

Coin Toss understood my point "Thrifty is right, each individual ticket (one line of numbers) is up against the very same odds, 175,000,000 to one."

Yes you can increase your chances of winning by buying more tickets, but every single tickets will go against the Odds of the particular game.

I feel that the following explains my point very well.

"In a similar manner, we can calculate the odds of picking the right number when two, three, four and five balls have been drawn. You know the odds of a coin toss resulting in heads are 1/2 = 2:1. The odds of two consecutive tosses both resulting in heads are 1/2 x 1/2 = 4:1. The odds of three consecutive tosses all resulting in heads are 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 8:1.

The odds of picking all six lottery numbers are calculated the same way -- by multiplying together the odds of each individual event. In this case: Some states have been increasing or decreasing the number of balls in order to change the odds.If the odds are too easy, then someone will win the jackpot almost every week and the prize will never grow. Large jackpots tend to drive more ticket sales. If the prize is not large enough, ticket sales can decrease. On the other hand, if the odds against winning are too great, ticket sales can also decline. It is important for each lottery to find the right balance between the odds and the number of people playing. If you add just one number to our hypothetical lottery, so people now have to pick from 51 balls, the odds increase to 18,009,460:1. "

For example the powerball increased the odds of winning by changing the game matrix odds from 1 in 195 millions to 1 in 175 millions.We can only increase our chances of winning by buying more tickets, only the game makers or the house increase or decrease the odds of winning any game by changing the game matrix.

You can't increase or decrease the Odds without changing the game matrix.

"The "enriched Powerball game" will still have participants choosing their first five numbers from a pool of 59, but the numbers available for the Powerball itself will drop to 35 from 39. That will raise the odds of winning to 1 in 175 million from 1 in 192 million.

It does not matter how many people play the odds never change with the amount of tickets purchased the only thing affected by the amount of players is the size of the jackpot if there are multiple winners."

NEW YORK United States Member #90535 April 29, 2010 12273 Posts Offline

Posted: March 5, 2012, 9:32 am - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by KY Floyd on March 5, 2012

We stop at some reasonable point because the lottery only gives back half of the money players spend.

We wouldn't buy 175,000 lines because doing so costs $175,000. A 1 in 1000 chance is good compared to a 1 in 175 million chance, but not when it costs $175,000 and there's still a 99.9% chance you'll lose most of that money.

None of that changes the fact that buying more tickets increases your odds of winning, and it does so in direct proportion to the number of tickets you buy.

Not getting the math quite right would be one thing. Asking these questions tells us that it's far more than just the math that confuses you.

"RICHGETRICHERWALL STREET GUYS WIN $254M WITH $1 LOTTERY TICKET." FINANCE PROS TURN $1 INTO $254M WITH LOTTERY. THEY'RE RICH AND RICHERER."

November 2, 2011 POWERBALL WINNING NUMBERS:12-14-34-39-46+ POWER BALL ( 36 )

"Thrifty is right, each individual ticket (one line of numbers) is up against the very same odds, 175,000,000 to one."

"There is one, and only one set of sinning numbers drawn - not one set of winning numbers drawn for each line played.That's why the fraction approach isn't valid."

You can play with fractions all you want but every line played only reduces the possible combinations by one. The "magic bullet" theory or in this case "magic second dollar" or magic "second line played" can do no more than that."

You can't increase or decrease the Odds without changing the game matrix.

"The "enriched Powerball game" will still have participants choosing their first five numbers from a pool of 59, but the numbers available for the Powerball itself will drop to 35 from 39.

That will raise the odds of winning to 1 in 175 million from 1 in 192 million.

It does not matter how many people playthe only thing affected by the amount of players is the size of the jackpot if there are multiple winners."

United States Member #111442 May 25, 2011 6323 Posts Offline

Posted: March 5, 2012, 9:37 am - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by THRIFTY on March 5, 2012

The only way to increase or decrease the Odds of any lottery game is by changing the game matrix. The Odds are the equation of the game.

Coin Toss understood my point "Thrifty is right, each individual ticket (one line of numbers) is up against the very same odds, 175,000,000 to one."

Yes you can increase your chances of winning by buying more tickets, but every single tickets will go against the Odds of the particular game.

I feel that the following explains my point very well.

"In a similar manner, we can calculate the odds of picking the right number when two, three, four and five balls have been drawn. You know the odds of a coin toss resulting in heads are 1/2 = 2:1. The odds of two consecutive tosses both resulting in heads are 1/2 x 1/2 = 4:1. The odds of three consecutive tosses all resulting in heads are 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 8:1.

The odds of picking all six lottery numbers are calculated the same way -- by multiplying together the odds of each individual event. In this case: Some states have been increasing or decreasing the number of balls in order to change the odds.If the odds are too easy, then someone will win the jackpot almost every week and the prize will never grow. Large jackpots tend to drive more ticket sales. If the prize is not large enough, ticket sales can decrease. On the other hand, if the odds against winning are too great, ticket sales can also decline. It is important for each lottery to find the right balance between the odds and the number of people playing. If you add just one number to our hypothetical lottery, so people now have to pick from 51 balls, the odds increase to 18,009,460:1. "

For example the powerball increased the odds of winning by changing the game matrix odds from 1 in 195 millions to 1 in 175 millions.We can only increase our chances of winning by buying more tickets, only the game makers or the house increase or decrease the odds of winning any game by changing the game matrix.

You can't increase or decrease the Odds without changing the game matrix.

"The "enriched Powerball game" will still have participants choosing their first five numbers from a pool of 59, but the numbers available for the Powerball itself will drop to 35 from 39. That will raise the odds of winning to 1 in 175 million from 1 in 192 million.

It does not matter how many people play the odds never change with the amount of tickets purchased the only thing affected by the amount of players is the size of the jackpot if there are multiple winners."

I say the only way to clear up this continued debate is to dig up Einstein himself. Let's revive him, let him clear his thoughts, get rid of the

cobwebs that have been collecting in his grey matter over the decades.

Let us then introduce him as a guest LP member, and present him with the thread history of this mathematical question, and let him decide

the final verdict of increasing/decreasing Powerball odds, game matrix, etc.

Einstein's answer will be final. We can then close the book on this this thread mystery once and for all.

Kentucky United States Member #32652 February 14, 2006 7685 Posts Offline

Posted: March 5, 2012, 10:16 am - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by Guru101 on March 4, 2012

If buying more lines doesn't improve your odds, then WHY would anyone do it? Come on, simplifying a fraction is learned in grade school.

5/20 = 1/4.

Same thing applies when buying 5 lines in the lottery:

5/175,000,000 = 1/35,000,000.

It amazes me the number of people on here that don't know how to simplify a fraction.

When the odds against winning are that high it really doesn't matter what they are, but most players understand if they buy 2 tickets they have 2 chances to win. If two chances are better than one, they increase their chances and if they buy 5 tickets they have 4 more chances than if they buy 1. I'll be waiting for a reply from anyone explaining why having 5 chances to win a jackpot is not better than 1 chance.

"Same thing applies when buying 5 lines in the lottery: 5/175,000,000 = 1/35,000,000. It amazes me the number of people on here that don't know how to simplify a fraction."

Since your example clearly shows the odds are DECREASED when buying more tickets, it's true that "Buying More Tickets Does Not INCREASE Your Odds". Buying more tickets slightly increases the chances of winning and slightly decreases the odds against winning.

NEW YORK United States Member #90535 April 29, 2010 12273 Posts Offline

Posted: March 5, 2012, 11:08 am - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by Stack47 on March 5, 2012

When the odds against winning are that high it really doesn't matter what they are, but most players understand if they buy 2 tickets they have 2 chances to win. If two chances are better than one, they increase their chances and if they buy 5 tickets they have 4 more chances than if they buy 1. I'll be waiting for a reply from anyone explaining why having 5 chances to win a jackpot is not better than 1 chance.

"Same thing applies when buying 5 lines in the lottery: 5/175,000,000 = 1/35,000,000. It amazes me the number of people on here that don't know how to simplify a fraction."

Since your example clearly shows the odds are DECREASED when buying more tickets, it's true that "Buying More Tickets Does Not INCREASE Your Odds". Buying more tickets slightly increases the chances of winning and slightly decreases the odds against winning.

"RICHGETRICHERWALL STREET GUYS WIN $254M WITH $1 LOTTERY TICKET." FINANCE PROS TURN $1 INTO $254M WITH LOTTERY. THEY'RE RICH AND RICHERER."

November 2, 2011 POWERBALL WINNING NUMBERS:12-14-34-39-46+ POWER BALL ( 36 )

"Thrifty is right, each individual ticket (one line of numbers) is up against the very same odds, 175,000,000 to one."

"There is one, and only one set of sinning numbers drawn - not one set of winning numbers drawn for each line played.That's why the fraction approach isn't valid."

You can play with fractions all you want but every line played only reduces the possible combinations by one. The "magic bullet" theory or in this case "magic second dollar" or magic "second line played" can do no more than that."

You can't increase or decrease the Odds without changing the game matrix.

"The "enriched Powerball game" will still have participants choosing their first five numbers from a pool of 59, but the numbers available for the Powerball itself will drop to 35 from 39.

That will raise the odds of winning to 1 in 175 million from 1 in 192 million.

It does not matter how many people playthe only thing affected by the amount of players is the size of the jackpot if there are multiple winners."

"Buy Just One Ticket Or Two Tickets Every Week (At Most):

The key to winning a major lottery is to always be a participant and prospective candidate to win by simply playing.

There is no sense in ever buying multiple tickets to any one lottery drawing to increase one's odds. With Powerball odds of 1 in 175,223,510 millions and Mega Millions odds of 1 in 175,711,536 millions, changing that 1 into a 2 or 3 isn't going to make a noticeable dent in your long shot odds. There is no appreciable statistical difference between odds of 1 in 175 millions chances and 5 in 175 millions chances - your odds are still incredibly slim. However, there is a huge difference between odds of zero in 175 millions and 1 in 175 millions.

The key to winning the lottery is to just be a player, not try to increase your odds of striking the jackpot.

Think of it this way - with a single ticket, your odds of losing are likely 99.99999%. Even with hundreds of ticket entries, your odds of losing likely only improve marginally to 99.99998% - still pretty unfavorable. But with that one lone ticket, at least you have a chance."

Kentucky United States Member #32652 February 14, 2006 7685 Posts Offline

Posted: March 5, 2012, 11:38 am - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by Coin Toss on March 5, 2012

Guru101,

If buying more tickets does improve your odds why, oh why, would you stop at 5 lines?

Using your exampleabove, if 5/175,000,000 reduced the odds to 1/35,000,000 WHY STOP THERE? If it worked people with serious money would be pounding it.

How about playing 175,000 lines and taking the odds down to 1/1000? That's the odds on one number in Pick 3 and pretty popular.

Or why don't 10 people with the means to do so wait until the jackpot is pumped up, play 1,750,000 lines each and wait to collect the money? There is one, and only one set of sinning numbers drawn - not one set of winning numbers drawn for each line played. That's why the fraction approach isn't valid.

You can play with fractions all you want but every line played only reduces the possible combinations by one. The "magic bullet" theory or in this case "magic second dollar" or magic "second line played" can do no more than that.

As a craps dealer, I'm betting you had to tell players hundreds of times when they made odds bets on the "5" or "9" they had to bet in units divisible by 2. If they had a $5 pass line or come bet, the odds bet had to be $2, $4, $6, $8, or $10 on a double odds table. I'm positive you knew the odds of rolling a "5" or "9" were based on the number of ways a seven could be rolled (6) compared to the number of ways a "5" or "9" (4) could be rolled. Since odds are reduced to the lowest possible denominator, odds of 6 to 4 become 3 to 2 and the same is true when showing MM or PB odds.

"Using your exampleabove, if 5/175,000,000 reduced the odds to 1/35,000,000 WHY STOP THERE? If it worked people with serious money would be pounding it."

All that means is there are now five 35 million to 1 chances against you. If you bet $1000 there are one thousand 175,000 to 1 chances against you. 175,000 to 1 just sounds better but there are still one thousand of those chances against you.

Does 5 or 1000 divided by 175 million and give you higher percentage chance of winning than 1 divided by 175 million?

Because there are so many chances against to begin with, betting $1000 only slightly increases the percentage over betting $1. It's easier to see in pick 3 games where the beginning chances of losing are much smaller but the percentage is still only slightly higher. Betting a $1 straight on any 3 digit number gives us a 0.1001% (1 divided by 999) percentage but betting $1 straight on ten different 3 digit numbers gives us a 1.01% (10 divided by 990) percentage. 100 different straight tickets gives 11.11% chance but not exactly a good bet when the payoff is only 4 to 1; a huge difference between MM where $100 bet sometimes gets a 1 million to 1 payoff.

Your argument and Thrifty's is based on the fact no matter how many tickets you buy, only one of them can win the jackpot and others while agreeing with that are saying 2, 5, 1000, etc. chances are better than 1.