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# What is a lottery system? What distinguishes a lottery system from guesses, dreams and quick picks?

Topic closed. 918 replies. Last post 6 years ago by mayhem.

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mid-Ohio
United States
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March 24, 2001
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 Posted: March 26, 2011, 6:30 pm - IP Logged

If only I could be so lucky, RJoh.

I will say that once in a while, using the Expert Lotto 'winning number history' filters, I can poduce a set of 200 to 500 combinations that hold a couple of 4/5 winners and several 3/5 winners. Like you, it's a matter of having the money to buy those tickets. In January I was lucky enough to pick 10 lines and win 1-4/5, 2-3/5 and 2-2/5 combinations. Recently I had 3 4/5 combinations out of 400 lines, but didn't buy any of the tickets. But most times, I dont get that close and may be lucky to get a few 2/5's. So if I were picking the right numbers but wrong combinations of those numbers, I wouldnt feel so bad.

The problem I am having is when I use ideas such as Gail Howards biases and charts, I'll end up with 14 to 18 numbers that I am absolutely positive will produce at least one or two 3/5 winners out of 25 tickets, and not one of those 14 to 18 numbers will hit, or I may get 3 or 4 2/5 hit. That is extremely frustrating to know that the numbers that hit were in all the numbers you threw away.

I think that's a problem with any system, the more numbers you use the more likely you will have the winning numbers in the mix but not on the same lines.  On the other hand if you use fewer numbers you are less likely to have the winning numbers in the group, that was what the Maddog challenges were trying to do.  My latest effort uses almost all the numbers but arrange them in the most popular distribution patterns hoping more of the winning numbers will be together on the same line.  Didn't work with 30 lines in last night MM drawing, I had three 2+0 and one 0+1 for \$2.

* you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket *

United States
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January 29, 2011
435 Posts
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 Posted: March 26, 2011, 6:43 pm - IP Logged

Morning Josephus and everyone,

Very nice question,

Was looking around seeing what's going on and wanted to comment on this.

Your question here, i think is how people are trying to do a certain thing with different methods and what is the difference in the methods. I mean everyone on this forum are here with a set goal in mind of finding a way to beat the odds of a said thing. This thing being winning the lottery, since this forum is about lottery. That said....

When i think of a system, i think of different components working together to get whatever said, be, accomplished, assembled.........

Whatever the case may be. A sound "system" composes of different components to create sound. An electrical "system" is different components assembled together to spread electricity. Being an electrican for better than half my life, installing an electrical "system" in a house/building, you not only have all the components, (wire, breakers, receptacles, and so on), one also has to use mathematical equations, heights, distances, many calculations to install a system successfully. It's the same for getting anything else completed.

Guessing is just that. Thinking that a certain thing might actually work. Without guessing though, i propose this world would be without many of the things it has. Without guessing that a certain thought/system, whatever might work then who knows if it would? Guessing to me, leads to systems, further leading to solutions. Guessing without trial and error can never be. If someone guesses a thing will work and it doesn't, well guess again till one gets it right. It's how, i'm sure that everything we have or know is based on.

I see dreams and quick picks not as a system, but as another form of guessing. One's guessing that a dream or quick pick may win.  There though, some have won with both. I'm not positive about the success of either with these, but i can only assume it boils down to however much one believes either will work.  I personaly have won with picking numbers off of signs by the road side, guessing that i might win with them, and i've won with working with what i do.

Anyway, i think without "guessing" there are no "system".

Now, as far as the lottery goes, is it not considered "the lottery system"? And a number is a number, but aren't all the numbers considered "the number system"?  So if the lottery IS numbers, wouldn't it be considered a "system"?

I see the basic numbers as 0-9. From that point on they form together in systems to complete another number.  0 is the starting point, meaning nothing and deriving up to the other numbers that account for what they mean. 0 is also the "base" that gives all the other's their true meaning. So to derive a "true system" for the lottery, wouldn't one have to break down the system to it's truest, barest, form to understand how it works before being able to know how to work it?

Much like one learning to build or create anything. We all have to either be taught how to do it or jump in, tear it down to the base core and see what is what, and what goes where themselves.

I would really hate to see what shape the world would be in without guessing though. Without guessing that something could be, there would be nothing, or 0.

Did the people that figured out what foods we have now are safe to eat by knowing it or trying (guessing) that they are?

So i see the difference of "guessing" and a "system" as pretty much the same thing, only slightly different. Guessing would be the starting point, the system derives from the guessing, leading to the conclusion.

I believe the key to figuring out how to win the lottery is realizing that it's numbers. We have to break the numbers down to their simplest form of 0-9, and go from there. I've seen enough to know that it's DEFINETLY NOT random. It's impossible for it to be random with numbers. There is only one way for the lottery to be random, which i won't say, as to keep it possble for anyone to win and to keep the game going.

We are also told that there are so many odds of winning, but i don't believe that. That i believe is said to keep the odds in favor of us not winning. Some astronomical number that says "there's no way we can win", but how many people just go out and buy a ticket for the first time and win big, on the premise that they might win. Might win, being guessing. I see the odds  being as a whole, not individual. It would have to be a whole to explain, somone buying only one ticket and winning.

As far as a "system" that works goes, the way people are, it should never really exist. If so it should never be revealed completely. If it was revealed completely, the whole lottery system would have to be shut down. Greed would take over and noone would be able to ever win, which would eventually result in not buying tickets, that would shut it all down. I don't see a system for the smaller jackpot games that truly works, hurting much, so that's the way to go.

The only way to produce a successful system is to try or "guess" to figure out how it works. The only way to do that is to tear it down and see what does what and that requires backtesting. Not just 5 or 10 games back, but 5 or 10 games back for each number, or more. If one is working with 23, don't just look at it as 23. Simplify the number down to 1 or 5 and look around at the numbers surrounding it, and see if there aren't links all around.

We mostly look at the lottery as impossible to win, but if we set that fear aside of losing, and only think "guess" of winning i think  "guess" our odds will go up.

Hi Greenfox.  I always enjoy your posts on the Lottery System Forum.  Thanks for posting on this one.

I don't know what it takes to produce a winning system, but I have my own strong ideas about what it takes to understand the lottery histories.  I've seen in your posts you're using internal math to remove some of the guesswork.  The underlying question is really whether the guesswork can be removed, and if it can be removed, to what degree is it possible?

If a person is going to investigate what is commonly believed to be impossible it requires a suspension of disbelieve sufficient to recognize the great majority of people who believe they are capable of thought will hold whatever you are doing to investigate in disdain.  But if the investigation bears fruit it's also inevitable the investigator will reciprocate.

We've every reason already to hold the views of the overwhelming majority of humanity in disdain.  A few of the observations you've related in your posts could easily give you reason to add another category to whatever you already possessed.

The problem is that even those who spread their scorn for the viewpoints of others in a paste over everything they post might have some vital piece to add to the puzzle without even knowing they're posting it.  Others, more open minded but still full of disdain also might reveal something helpful without knowing it.

I'm glad to see you reading here and happier yet to see you posting.  You don't appear to have suffered any injury from the attacks.

Zeta Reticuli Star System
United States
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January 17, 2006
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 Posted: March 26, 2011, 7:35 pm - IP Logged

What is a lottery system? What distinguishes a lottery system from guesses, dreams and quick picks?

REgarding the topic title and considering yet another multi-million dollar jackpot going to a QP I'd say one thing that certainly distinguishes a lottery system from gueses, dreams, and quick picks is simply that systems don't hit as often as those do!

Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

United States
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January 29, 2011
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 Posted: March 26, 2011, 7:56 pm - IP Logged

What is a lottery system? What distinguishes a lottery system from guesses, dreams and quick picks?

REgarding the topic title and considering yet another multi-million dollar jackpot going to a QP I'd say one thing that certainly distinguishes a lottery system from gueses, dreams, and quick picks is simply that systems don't hit as often as those do!

Astute observation if true, Coin Toss.  Are you aware of any records quantifying the numbers of jackpots won by quickpicks as compared to those won by people using systems?  For that matter, can it be assumed if a person who wins by a betslip pick was using a system?

I assume you also have a source for records on the people who have won secondary level prizes by each of the methods?

United States
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July 10, 2010
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 Posted: March 26, 2011, 11:02 pm - IP Logged

Astute observation if true, Coin Toss.  Are you aware of any records quantifying the numbers of jackpots won by quickpicks as compared to those won by people using systems?  For that matter, can it be assumed if a person who wins by a betslip pick was using a system?

I assume you also have a source for records on the people who have won secondary level prizes by each of the methods?

It's generally accepted that 70% of Powerball ticket purchases are Quickpicks, and that 70% of the winners win with Quickpicks.

Here is a FAQ about that at one of the Minnesota Lottery websites:

http://www.lottery.state.mn.us/qanda.html#20

mississippi
United States
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March 3, 2006
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 Posted: March 27, 2011, 12:23 am - IP Logged

yeah..but do you know why?..remember..to be able to understand anything properly you have to be able to understand the WHY..

Why does quick pics win more..well that is very simple..powerball is running a 5:1 ratio..and the only chance you have to win anything is to ACTUALLY HIT the 5th draw..and the 5th draw only..so as you do your research to find what you think is going to show..powerball takes out

draw 1

draw 2

draw 3

draw 4

PAYING DRAW

draw 5

so not only do you have to select the right numbers..but you HAVE TO HIT EXACTLY THAT 5th  DRAW

and this ladies and gentlemen is EXACTLY why QUICK PICS win more ..powerball and mega millions IS NOWAY ON THIS EARTH going to allow you to lock in on a variable that will show in the next draw which SHOULD BE THE REAL DRAW instead of allowing people to bet money on tickets and then turn the machines on and take out all them other winning combinations that THEY DO NOT PAY ANY MONEY ON WHATSOEVER..

this is your answer...period!!!!!!!!!!1 a 5:1 ratio and you practically have no shot of picking numbers from the short term....

"Attention all Mathematicians: Check your degree at the door because when it comes to whole numbers you are the Amateur"

Zeta Reticuli Star System
United States
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January 17, 2006
10351 Posts
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 Posted: March 27, 2011, 12:28 am - IP Logged

Astute observation if true, Coin Toss.  Are you aware of any records quantifying the numbers of jackpots won by quickpicks as compared to those won by people using systems?  For that matter, can it be assumed if a person who wins by a betslip pick was using a system?

I assume you also have a source for records on the people who have won secondary level prizes by each of the methods?

Yeah.

Go to the Pick 5 Forum for Illinois Little Lotto for 2008, 2009, and 2010. I used a Pick 5 game because it is drawn everyyday.

You can also find Illinois Lotto results for 2009 and 2010 in the Jackpot Games Forum. For both of those years 11 jackpots were paid, 7 QP's and 4 Player's Picks.

The Illinois Pick 6 is a progressive starting at \$2 million. The secondary prizes for that game are pitiful.

Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

United States
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July 10, 2010
2180 Posts
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 Posted: March 27, 2011, 12:34 am - IP Logged

yeah..but do you know why?..remember..to be able to understand anything properly you have to be able to understand the WHY..

Why does quick pics win more..well that is very simple..powerball is running a 5:1 ratio..and the only chance you have to win anything is to ACTUALLY HIT the 5th draw..and the 5th draw only..so as you do your research to find what you think is going to show..powerball takes out

draw 1

draw 2

draw 3

draw 4

PAYING DRAW

draw 5

so not only do you have to select the right numbers..but you HAVE TO HIT EXACTLY THAT 5th  DRAW

and this ladies and gentlemen is EXACTLY why QUICK PICS win more ..powerball and mega millions IS NOWAY ON THIS EARTH going to allow you to lock in on a variable that will show in the next draw which SHOULD BE THE REAL DRAW instead of allowing people to bet money on tickets and then turn the machines on and take out all them other winning combinations that THEY DO NOT PAY ANY MONEY ON WHATSOEVER..

this is your answer...period!!!!!!!!!!1 a 5:1 ratio and you practically have no shot of picking numbers from the short term....

It makes sense to me that when 70% of the ticket purchases are QuickPicks you end up with 70% of the winning tickets being QuickPicks.  Over the long haul, I wouldn't expect it to be any other way.  I must admit, I don't understand what your 5::1 ratio has to do with this.

Denver, Co
United States
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December 29, 2010
546 Posts
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 Posted: March 27, 2011, 1:13 am - IP Logged

I think that's a problem with any system, the more numbers you use the more likely you will have the winning numbers in the mix but not on the same lines.  On the other hand if you use fewer numbers you are less likely to have the winning numbers in the group, that was what the Maddog challenges were trying to do.  My latest effort uses almost all the numbers but arrange them in the most popular distribution patterns hoping more of the winning numbers will be together on the same line.  Didn't work with 30 lines in last night MM drawing, I had three 2+0 and one 0+1 for \$2.

While I agree with you about more numbers = more likely to have winning #s in the mix, I think overall this 'winning numbers history' system in this software has gotten me closer than any other method I've used. For a while I've been using Gail Howards charts and systems and at most only matching 2/5. Not one 3/5 winner out of many many tries. However the other method in my software is seemingly starting to produce better combinations that are closer to the JP than I've ever been. Last night out of 25 lines using Gail Howard, I won \$5. Out of 25 lines using the software, I got a couple of 3/5's and several 2/5's for a \$36 win. While I didn't come close enough to get a 4/5 combination, there were several more matching 3/5's that I didn't buy.

Again, tonite, with Gail Howards system, I got nada, maybe 1 or 2 2/5's. With the software, I got some 3/5 hits, and it found a 4/5 winner and several more 3/5's in the total package (didn't buy those ). I seem to come closer using this winning numbers history system in the software than anything else I've used.

Same thing also happened in Lotto tonite...25 tix using GH produced not one winner. Using this other system produced at least a couple of 3/6 hits.

Even if it produces a large field of numbers, I'd rather use a system that at least gives me the chance to buy 3/5s, 4/5's, and possibly even a 5/5 than to use a system where the most I am going to get out of any set of numbers is 2/5.

I think I am going to give the software a more serious go and see if I can refine my predictions.

Good luck!

mid-Ohio
United States
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March 24, 2001
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 Posted: March 27, 2011, 1:50 am - IP Logged

It makes sense to me that when 70% of the ticket purchases are QuickPicks you end up with 70% of the winning tickets being QuickPicks.  Over the long haul, I wouldn't expect it to be any other way.  I must admit, I don't understand what your 5::1 ratio has to do with this.

Everything being equal, that means the 30% of tickets bought by players picking their own numbers and playing birthdays are doing equally well/bad. Picking their own numbers hasn't been an advantage or a disadvantage.

* you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket *

United States
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July 10, 2010
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 Posted: March 27, 2011, 1:52 am - IP Logged

Hi Greenfox.  I always enjoy your posts on the Lottery System Forum.  Thanks for posting on this one.

I don't know what it takes to produce a winning system, but I have my own strong ideas about what it takes to understand the lottery histories.  I've seen in your posts you're using internal math to remove some of the guesswork.  The underlying question is really whether the guesswork can be removed, and if it can be removed, to what degree is it possible?

If a person is going to investigate what is commonly believed to be impossible it requires a suspension of disbelieve sufficient to recognize the great majority of people who believe they are capable of thought will hold whatever you are doing to investigate in disdain.  But if the investigation bears fruit it's also inevitable the investigator will reciprocate.

We've every reason already to hold the views of the overwhelming majority of humanity in disdain.  A few of the observations you've related in your posts could easily give you reason to add another category to whatever you already possessed.

The problem is that even those who spread their scorn for the viewpoints of others in a paste over everything they post might have some vital piece to add to the puzzle without even knowing they're posting it.  Others, more open minded but still full of disdain also might reveal something helpful without knowing it.

I'm glad to see you reading here and happier yet to see you posting.  You don't appear to have suffered any injury from the attacks.

"But if the investigation bears fruit it's also inevitable the investigator will reciprocate."

I'm not sure who the investigator is in this sentence, and what reciprocate means in this context.

I'm not trying to be sarcastic or cute; I just want to understand what you're trying to say.

mid-Ohio
United States
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March 24, 2001
19826 Posts
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 Posted: March 27, 2011, 1:53 am - IP Logged

While I agree with you about more numbers = more likely to have winning #s in the mix, I think overall this 'winning numbers history' system in this software has gotten me closer than any other method I've used. For a while I've been using Gail Howards charts and systems and at most only matching 2/5. Not one 3/5 winner out of many many tries. However the other method in my software is seemingly starting to produce better combinations that are closer to the JP than I've ever been. Last night out of 25 lines using Gail Howard, I won \$5. Out of 25 lines using the software, I got a couple of 3/5's and several 2/5's for a \$36 win. While I didn't come close enough to get a 4/5 combination, there were several more matching 3/5's that I didn't buy.

Again, tonite, with Gail Howards system, I got nada, maybe 1 or 2 2/5's. With the software, I got some 3/5 hits, and it found a 4/5 winner and several more 3/5's in the total package (didn't buy those ). I seem to come closer using this winning numbers history system in the software than anything else I've used.

Same thing also happened in Lotto tonite...25 tix using GH produced not one winner. Using this other system produced at least a couple of 3/6 hits.

Even if it produces a large field of numbers, I'd rather use a system that at least gives me the chance to buy 3/5s, 4/5's, and possibly even a 5/5 than to use a system where the most I am going to get out of any set of numbers is 2/5.

I think I am going to give the software a more serious go and see if I can refine my predictions.

Good luck!

That's what it's all about, finding out what works and using that exclusively until you win the big one.

* you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket *

United States
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 Posted: March 27, 2011, 1:54 am - IP Logged

Everything being equal, that means the 30% of tickets bought by players picking their own numbers and playing birthdays are doing equally well/bad. Picking their own numbers hasn't been an advantage or a disadvantage.

...with the exception of the negative effects of parimutuel on certain types of pattern betting.

Fort Worth, TX
United States
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February 11, 2011
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 Posted: March 27, 2011, 2:36 am - IP Logged

Why are there even "systems" for jackpot games? Might as well just increase your odds by buying more tickets. The resolution stays the same, which is to say zero. I think if a "system" is ever found it will rely upon laws discovered by observing patterns because we will see those patterns obeying the same laws. Pick 3 is the likely place to find this and then it shouldn't be hard to apply to all lotteries. It's kind of like looking for the theory of everything....

That said, even without a TOE we know a great deal about the world around us. In lottery terms, making enough money to be profitable can come long before "cracking the code". I can see this in pick3 and pick4 games but it seems impossible on powerball and megamillions. I wonder how many people are winning smaller prizes with QPs vs Wheeling a "system"...

How you do anything is how you do everything.

light on my feet
United States
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May 20, 2002
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 Posted: March 27, 2011, 2:37 am - IP Logged

Astute observation if true, Coin Toss.  Are you aware of any records quantifying the numbers of jackpots won by quickpicks as compared to those won by people using systems?  For that matter, can it be assumed if a person who wins by a betslip pick was using a system?

I assume you also have a source for records on the people who have won secondary level prizes by each of the methods?

history bears out the truth about what "works" within a specific pursuit about the lottery,  and so far after personal observation of 9 years plus of watching the most talented minds postulate daily that they canno one has.

like i have stated before many times over - not even with any consistentcy in a 3 number game,  let alone run amok JP odds.

if it could be done,  it would have been accomplished right here,  and it hasn't.  so long as the drawings have integrity,  they never will.

given the latest JP binge,  it got my common sense wheels a thunkin again about the ....."well 70% of the purchases are QP's,  so yeah,  that's why so many JP's are won by QP's".....etc.

which leads to my latest / greatest dismissal via common sense of that non fact,  is that what makes it even more glaringly obvious,  is that if system picks really worked,  they would over take that "70%" like a speeding bullet.

the fact that it remains a 70/30 split tells anyone with common sense  it's pure random, and there is no way to create an edge via any methodology.

history and common sense.  excellant traveling companions on the way to truthville...

"i am .........."meant to"

P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

until further notice,  it's  france everyday

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