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What is a lottery system? What distinguishes a lottery system from guesses, dreams and quick picks?

Topic closed. 918 replies. Last post 6 years ago by mayhem.

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visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
light on my feet
United States
Member #356
May 20, 2002
2744 Posts
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Posted: March 30, 2011, 3:02 am - IP Logged

Maybe it's not that simple,  When God knocks on my door and points at a few stars and says move around

a little and the stars do just that then I will quit playing the digit system for something better.  Let's just

say that I learn from the best, and just like the God you believe in, The non-belivers can go straight to .............

Take up your quest with God first and then work your way down to little misguided untruthful me.  I posted a

system that takes skill and time to learn,  If I posted my combos and showed the world that it really does work

then everyone would believe however the same thing could be said for the Big Guy.   Anyone who thinks if they

had my software could hit a jackpot in the next week or so would be very disapointed just like a person who

thinks that by accepting Jesus would make all their problems go away.  However if they adhear to the teachings they

can over time improve there results very much.   You don't know what you ask..... 

RL

" If I posted my combos and showed the world that it really does work then everyone would believe"....

"if i did".......the same old trumped up disclaimer that i wish i had a dollar for every time i have heard it just at LP from the i refuse to's.

it would just about bankroll my 1QP's from here on out.

you imply to the people in here that you somehow possess the "knowledge" or "skill" to manipulate the lottery,  when the real truth about you is the only thing you are manipulating is the truth of what you can't do.

the premise is simple......if you really had something,  you could show case it toot suite,  and you could do it without anyone finding out how your system works.    which is current your feighned "excuse".

the other part of this revelation that you "can't",  is that you already have let enough of the cat out of the bag about how you go about things in your personal pursuit in other threads around here,  so it's not like it's some super secret anyway.

whether you have or haven't isn't an issue.   the fact that you won't tells the world you can't.

tell us RL,   what's so "secretive" about picking one game and attaching numbers to it pre draw?

you are right,  if you posted your numbers everyone WOULD believe. 

but alas,  RL doesn't want to be "the one".     i wonder why that is?

what,  has this now become a selfish matter,  that you are unwilling to share a pari-mutuel draw?

laughing

"You don't know what you ask"..... 

oh but i do,  and unfortunately for you,  you know "that i know"

            "i am .........."meant to"       

P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

         until further notice,  it's  france everyday

    RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

    United States
    Member #59354
    March 13, 2008
    3962 Posts
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    Posted: March 30, 2011, 3:31 am - IP Logged

    instead of jumping at the chance to prove claims you made (and i didn't),  somehow you dream you can turn this back around on me, and blame me for your unwilliningness? 

     seriously,  this is like the thousandth time someone has resorted to this tactic when it then becomes obvious they can't.   

     blame the other guy so they "don't have to"

    you know,  you having read past threads i was involved in,  when anyone challenged me to throw out "proofs" about beliefs i base my decision making on,  i hopped all over that chance.

    devoted pages and pages to it,  despite being the lone ranger while taking pot shots from the many

    you?   not you,  you blame me and look for the exit door.

    i have been more than willing to parade out undeniable history. 

    done it a ton of times,  all archived under my username,  easily accessable by anyone.

    for you to say "you haven't"......that's a blatant lie.

    be glad to do it again right here should i need to,  no problema.

    you know me.....someone else creates that opportunity,  i am theresville

    YOU are the one that referenced "god" in this thread.....i didn't breathe a word about it.

    true replicated history doesn't need "faith" to believe it,  it just needs a person willing to adjust to it's facts.

    same thing applies to the lottery,  or SHOULD,  should someone like yourself actually back up what they claim.

    and i was right on the money when i said "no one has" demonstrated sustained repeatability .

    if they had,  you would have brought up 'examples" to prove your point. 

    you couldn't even offer up yourself,  despite your claimed "success rate"

    it's tragically pathetic to watch a man extoll virtues he cannot demonstrate,  and attempt to blame another for his unwillingness to do so.

    my statement still holds true,  and is now both current and obvious (thanks to you).....that no one has in 9 years,  cuz no one can

    you can add yourself to the list of "i can'ts"........and you will never get away with blaming me.

    unless of course you change your mind,  and your parade out your numbers pre draw to show the LP crowd that you do in fact "have something that is better than QP's". 

    remember RL,  you made that claim,  i didn't.

    you should know by now i am a man that stands behind what i say / believe.  pages and pages of devotion to blocks of time to make sure i do.

    i am not afraid of the reprisal of what i believe, and the defense thereof

     you know you won't catch me looking for the exit.  i stay till the curtain closes.

    that being said,  trumpet out your "proof",  then if you want some positional belief reciprocation,  i will do it right here.

    well,  think up another excuse to offer up the LP crowd why you can't (or better yet won't)

    you get to that crucial intersection in life where a man either is, or isn't.   he can either do what he says he can do,  or he can't.  after that "intersection",  the truth about him becomes apparent

    All you have to offer as proof is the word of someone else who could have written it many years after the

    fact. I am not trying to avoid showing proof I just don't feel the need.  If I posted my results how would I

    ever have any time to explain the system to the thousands of people who would want the goods from the

    horses mouth so to speak.  I have sent out about 40 copies of my oold dos software and ended up with

    hundreds and hundreds of emails asking how do I do this and how do I do that.  I liked doing this but it

    took all my free time.   Those who are really interseted can read the post and test it for themselves.

    They can use the basics and play a few sets using pen and paper.  To do what you are asking would cost

    me thousands of hours of my time.  I guess I could do this and then just leave but what good would that 

    do.  Feed a person and he will be hungry again, Teach a person to fish and he can feed himself.  The proof

    you seek is written on the many pages of these many post.  I continue to post from time to time so that I

    can explain a few questions in a plublic forum that prevents me from having to reply to many many request.

    So many like yourself ask question when the answers are right in front of them.   Each person is unique

    and some are left-brain and some are right.  some people are very good at math and some are not, Some 

    can see patterns and some cannot, some can see the advantage of playing digits and some cannot.  Your

    reply is exactly what I expected.  You need to consider what I have written and take a day or two to think

    it over.   Proof I will never ever post it and you would do well to consider this.  I would also like to say that

    I do believe in GOD without question and used the previous post only as a means to reveal the many flaws

    that are common to man. 

    RL

      RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

      United States
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      March 13, 2008
      3962 Posts
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      Posted: March 30, 2011, 3:38 am - IP Logged

      " If I posted my combos and showed the world that it really does work then everyone would believe"....

      "if i did".......the same old trumped up disclaimer that i wish i had a dollar for every time i have heard it just at LP from the i refuse to's.

      it would just about bankroll my 1QP's from here on out.

      you imply to the people in here that you somehow possess the "knowledge" or "skill" to manipulate the lottery,  when the real truth about you is the only thing you are manipulating is the truth of what you can't do.

      the premise is simple......if you really had something,  you could show case it toot suite,  and you could do it without anyone finding out how your system works.    which is current your feighned "excuse".

      the other part of this revelation that you "can't",  is that you already have let enough of the cat out of the bag about how you go about things in your personal pursuit in other threads around here,  so it's not like it's some super secret anyway.

      whether you have or haven't isn't an issue.   the fact that you won't tells the world you can't.

      tell us RL,   what's so "secretive" about picking one game and attaching numbers to it pre draw?

      you are right,  if you posted your numbers everyone WOULD believe. 

      but alas,  RL doesn't want to be "the one".     i wonder why that is?

      what,  has this now become a selfish matter,  that you are unwilling to share a pari-mutuel draw?

      laughing

      "You don't know what you ask"..... 

      oh but i do,  and unfortunately for you,  you know "that i know"

      Vision

      You just showed you true age, not in years but in your faith.  I had hoped for more but but at the same time

      I am not surprised.

       

      RL

        Rick G's avatar - avatar 1766.jpg
        FEMA Region V Camp #21
        United States
        Member #520
        July 27, 2002
        5699 Posts
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        Posted: March 30, 2011, 9:36 am - IP Logged

        Just to set something straight.

        1.  I posted a system making no claims about it and supported by only a month of backtesting in IL.

        2.  Jimmy backtested it and found that the long-term results were no better than chance.

        3.  I thanked Jimmy because I appreciated his efforts and did not want to lead players astray.

        4.  Jimmy and I left the subject on good terms.  We are still on good terms. 

         

        End of story.

        Posted 4/6:  IL Pick 3 midday and evening until they hit:  555, 347 (str8).


          time*treat's avatar - radar

          United States
          Member #13130
          March 30, 2005
          2171 Posts
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          Posted: March 30, 2011, 10:18 am - IP Logged

          RL,  while i do appreciate the effort and extent you went to in your  attempt at legitimizing your personal pursuit of the lottery,  it's still a claimed hypothesis,  and nothing more. 

          while you laid out it's partial methodology,  the fact still remains,  when it gets down to it's reall life application (putting your own money on it),   "it" ....(like any other "system") .....can not produce a consistent sustainable repeatability where you can truthfully claim you can actually create an edge via your efforts.

          you,  nor anyone else can actually demonstrate the ability to predict/alter/manipulate a random event

          the following "reminder" is not for your benefit,  because you obviously discard this small piece of reality,  but it is for the reading audience,  and it goes like this.

          (1) lottery balls have no memory.  they don't know which one is due,  which one is shy,  which one has been on vacation for months,  they have no idea who has been penciling them in because they like "that number",  they have no idea when a computer program has been "fine tuned" to favor them......lottery balls have zero memory, and each one has the same chance to come up every draw.   it is incongruent with logical thinking that even though they haven't made an appearance in a very long time,  that somehow they are "due".  that's rediculous,  considering at each draw each ball has the same chance period.

          (2)  even if someone could detect a pattern via the usage of the same ballsets,  you nor anyone else knows which ballsets or machines they are using for that draw,  because they switch them around while denying public knowledge, thereby negating any pattern.

          (3)  no one experiences continuity of success,  as claimed "success" is always represented in a sliding scale form "painted" by the claimed "successor".  proponents of lottery "systems" who claim they have something are in a constant state of flux, forever searching and tweaking.  why is that,  if it "works".   these facts portend excuse,  not success.

          success is sustained and demonstrated again thru the one and only qualifying factor.....repeatability

          without repeatability,  you have wishful thinking. 

          (4)  tons of hyperbole,  on the back of high falutin hypothesis,  sans hard evidence.  "i can i can i can i can,  and here's how i do it"....."what,  you want me to show you that it works?  noooo, i can't do that"    followed by the excuse...."hey,  it's my system and my hard work,  get your own"

          .......which is lame,  because people like don't care "how it works", only that it does...   

           9 years at LP,  and still not one who actually demonstrates they can when pressed to do so.  that is a fact

          (5)  this is a hard fact of life,  and one reminder guys like you are not going to like,  but it's necessary to prove my point that it's just random......that even if anyone could,  the lotteries would change it up and negate your hard work toot suite,  forcing your wishful thinking back to square one,  where you are going to have to expend even more time and effort into something that would eventually happen again, ad infirediculoustimedraininginitum 

          you want the hard truth (wishful thinkers ignore hard truth,  but here goes)......there will never come a time in future history where anyone will exploit the lottery for manipulative gain.  the hard truth is,  the lotteries wouldn't allow it if it were possible,  and would immediately send it back to impossible land.

          you cannot reason with a person who doesn't accept that common sense fact of life. 

          any "pursuit" now certainly has no future, because the future will always be manipulated so you can't  anyways.

          now,  does that mean we shouldn't pursue something in life based on eventual roadblocks?  heck no.  you charge ahead,  when there is a goal that is attainable

           the lottery is a random event everytime it happens,  because past history doesn't count,  anymore than the impossibility of future predictability, anyomre than the certainity the lotteries won't allow it.

          do you have to buy only 1QP?    no no and no times PI. 

           but you waste time thinking you can manipulate a designed random event designed enough to be impossible to exploit

          crazy that after all these years at LP that it never occured to me that the lottery can ruin wishful thinking with one small tweak of the matrix,  negating completely all your previous efforts,  only to sit and wait until they tweak it again.

          therein lay the reasoning why i preach the gospel of common sense.

          it is amazing where a man or woman can take themselves,  so long as it's not on the bullet train of desperation

          (5)  this is a hard fact of life,  and one reminder guys like you are not going to like,  but it's necessary to prove my point that it's just random......that even if anyone could,  the lotteries would change it up and negate your hard work toot suite,  forcing your wishful thinking back to square one,  where you are going to have to expend even more time and effort into something that would eventually happen again, ad infirediculoustimedraininginitum

          "even if anyone could,  the lotteries would change it up and negate your hard work" -- well, there's the thing; if the rules (terminal tie-up time, matricies, tube rotation, machine rotation, RNG used) are not kept constant, then it is not very easy to prove (or disprove) that a system WAS or WAS NOT any better than luck. The scientific method of testing a hypothesis and repeatedly and independently getting the same results cannot be used like it can in testing a matter of physics or chemistry.

          Put another way -- if Lucy keeps moving the football, how can we say whether or not Charlie Brown is really a lousy kicker? Wink

          In neo-conned Amerika, bank robs you.
          Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a govnoment agency.

            ameriken's avatar - 33ojew2
            Denver, Co
            United States
            Member #103046
            December 29, 2010
            546 Posts
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            Posted: March 30, 2011, 11:52 am - IP Logged

            " If I posted my combos and showed the world that it really does work then everyone would believe"....

            "if i did".......the same old trumped up disclaimer that i wish i had a dollar for every time i have heard it just at LP from the i refuse to's.

            it would just about bankroll my 1QP's from here on out.

            you imply to the people in here that you somehow possess the "knowledge" or "skill" to manipulate the lottery,  when the real truth about you is the only thing you are manipulating is the truth of what you can't do.

            the premise is simple......if you really had something,  you could show case it toot suite,  and you could do it without anyone finding out how your system works.    which is current your feighned "excuse".

            the other part of this revelation that you "can't",  is that you already have let enough of the cat out of the bag about how you go about things in your personal pursuit in other threads around here,  so it's not like it's some super secret anyway.

            whether you have or haven't isn't an issue.   the fact that you won't tells the world you can't.

            tell us RL,   what's so "secretive" about picking one game and attaching numbers to it pre draw?

            you are right,  if you posted your numbers everyone WOULD believe. 

            but alas,  RL doesn't want to be "the one".     i wonder why that is?

            what,  has this now become a selfish matter,  that you are unwilling to share a pari-mutuel draw?

            laughing

            "You don't know what you ask"..... 

            oh but i do,  and unfortunately for you,  you know "that i know"

            This started out as a pretty good thread until the ego's became invested.

            Why does anyone have to show any proof for something in an internet forum? Better yet, why does anyone have to prove anything to YOU or anyone else? Is there something to gain or some particular benefit by having visionsdude or jimmy4164 or some other random unknown and meaningless member of a forum believe what someone says on an internet forum?

            Instead of this thread being a serious lottery discussion, it's more of a battle of egos and 'prove it'. Seems to me that those who are demanding 'proof' are more interested in winning a game of 'gotcha' rather than winning a lottery.

              Avatar
              Kentucky
              United States
              Member #32652
              February 14, 2006
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              Posted: March 30, 2011, 12:31 pm - IP Logged

              Just to set something straight.

              1.  I posted a system making no claims about it and supported by only a month of backtesting in IL.

              2.  Jimmy backtested it and found that the long-term results were no better than chance.

              3.  I thanked Jimmy because I appreciated his efforts and did not want to lead players astray.

              4.  Jimmy and I left the subject on good terms.  We are still on good terms. 

               

              End of story.

              "I posted a system making no claims about it and supported by only a month of backtesting in IL."

              There is nothing wrong with posting any system even it is a dud. Thankfully we only have a couple of LP members that demand proof because if there were many more, it would discourage people from posting their systems.

              "Jimmy backtested it and found that the long-term results were no better than chance."

              Many systems fall under the "spot play" category and not intended to work over the history of any lottery. We must determine if it does work, why did it worked, and will it continue to work in the future. Even if back testing the entire game history proves it was a success, we have no time machine that can take us back to the past.

              We have tic-tac-toe workouts, Power-trails, Followers, Vtracs and many other simple systems. Most players only care if they will work in the next drawing and could care less how the "would have worked" in the past.

                Guru101's avatar - rw6jhh
                Indiana
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                Posted: March 30, 2011, 12:31 pm - IP Logged

                Actually, even in the PB, MM and Pick 6 games, I would like a system that is consistently repeatable so I can at least win back some of the money I am spending while traveling down the road toward the JP. If a system truly works, then it should regularly and consistently be hitting 4/6 and 5/6, or 3/5 and 4/5.

                There is a problem with your expectation that a system designed for a jackpot game should consistently hit second and third prizes. Some systems do not target second and third prizes. Some systems are designed in a way to specifically target the top prize, which would mean matching 6/6 in a Pick 6 game, 5/5 in a Pick 5 game, etc. That doesn't mean when that system generates a set of numbers, that line won't match 4/6 or 5/6. It just means the system would be more concerned with generating a set of numbers which it finds to have a better chance of matching 6/6.

                Gonna win.Big Smile

                  ameriken's avatar - 33ojew2
                  Denver, Co
                  United States
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                  Posted: March 30, 2011, 12:46 pm - IP Logged

                  There is a problem with your expectation that a system designed for a jackpot game should consistently hit second and third prizes. Some systems do not target second and third prizes. Some systems are designed in a way to specifically target the top prize, which would mean matching 6/6 in a Pick 6 game, 5/5 in a Pick 5 game, etc. That doesn't mean when that system generates a set of numbers, that line won't match 4/6 or 5/6. It just means the system would be more concerned with generating a set of numbers which it finds to have a better chance of matching 6/6.

                  Thanks for your reply. I don't necessarily mean that I want the system to target  3/5 and 4/5, but rather that I would like to see it target the JP, but when it misses the JP it was accurate enough to hit 3 or 4 of the 5 or 4 or 5 of the 6 numbers correctly and consistently. However I do see what you're saying.

                    RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                    mid-Ohio
                    United States
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                    Posted: March 30, 2011, 12:51 pm - IP Logged

                    Just to set something straight.

                    1.  I posted a system making no claims about it and supported by only a month of backtesting in IL.

                    2.  Jimmy backtested it and found that the long-term results were no better than chance.

                    3.  I thanked Jimmy because I appreciated his efforts and did not want to lead players astray.

                    4.  Jimmy and I left the subject on good terms.  We are still on good terms. 

                     

                    End of story.

                    Back testing just prove a system isn't likely to win, not that it will never win.  Back testing quick picks would show they aren't likely to win too but I don't see any one warning QP players about buying them and it doesn't discourage QP players either so why should a system player be any different?

                     * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                       
                                 Evil Looking       

                      Avatar
                      Kentucky
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                      Posted: March 30, 2011, 12:52 pm - IP Logged

                      This started out as a pretty good thread until the ego's became invested.

                      Why does anyone have to show any proof for something in an internet forum? Better yet, why does anyone have to prove anything to YOU or anyone else? Is there something to gain or some particular benefit by having visionsdude or jimmy4164 or some other random unknown and meaningless member of a forum believe what someone says on an internet forum?

                      Instead of this thread being a serious lottery discussion, it's more of a battle of egos and 'prove it'. Seems to me that those who are demanding 'proof' are more interested in winning a game of 'gotcha' rather than winning a lottery.

                      "Why does anyone have to show any proof for something in an internet forum?"

                      The question should be "why would anybody continue to demand proof after a lengthy explanation of the system was offered". The only logical explanation is they are too lazy to try it and just want the numbers it produces.

                      I have a system that works for post with nothing but useless information; I scroll right by their posts as if they don't exist. Have a 100% success rate too!

                        Guru101's avatar - rw6jhh
                        Indiana
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                        Posted: March 30, 2011, 1:04 pm - IP Logged

                        for face value.....i totally agree.

                        really,  after a JP win of any size,  who cares spiff about repreatability much anymore as a qualifying factor.

                        the sticky sticking point i am attempting to make is the differentiation between "luck" and "skill".

                        truthfully speaking,  a systems player can't even brag with certainity that they bagged the big one based on skill.

                         a one time occurance does not denote skill.  it favors more of the definition of luck than skill.

                        repeatability screams skill  Scared

                        true, repeatability is more easily observed in the smaller numbered games,  because the player is inclined to keep after the game,  thinking they can conquer it thru skill.

                        good by me.....show us anyone that can even demonstrate sustained repeatability in any game,  long enough that no one can deny it isn't anything but skill.

                        my point,  that hasn't ever happened,  nor will it ever happen,  even in a 3 number game

                        i think you have seen me in action long enough to know i make this as easy as possible,  by providing opportunity for someone to demonstrate this just in the 3 number games.   i gave up years ago talking to systems players about "proof" in the major leagues.

                        said it many times over.....some one show us with their pick 3 prowess (and you certainly don't have to show anyone how you did it).....and visiondude will sing the praises that the lottery can be manipulated.

                        who doesn't want to be the hero that did that?

                        followed by 9 years of silence Thud

                        Visiondude, not all systems use a fixed, untweakable technique of generating numbers. Some systems consider a lot of information and perform a lot of mathematical calculations based on parameters the system designer specifies. These types of systems are always in testing and the designer is always looking for ways to make it better, whether it be adding more stuff to it, or correcting what's already there. They might even specify something based on their own discretion, for example they might want to specify a key number, or perhaps be more aggressive in a certain mathematical calculation that the system performs. A system can change at the designer's discretion. This why if I had a system and could win regularly, and then went and handed it out to people, that doesn't mean they will win too. From drawing to drawing a system designer can make his/her own changes and set specific parameters as he/she so desires, based off their own observations. After winning the jackpot, there's no reason a person should feel obligated to prove to others that they are "skilled" at winning jackpots. That wasn't the goal. The goal was to win a jackpot and that's what was accomplished. They fulfilled their own self interest. Just as I said before, no system can win every drawing. The biggest factor for what you win in the lottery is luck anyway, so there's no point in getting caught up in some popularity contest, trying to prove how big and bad you are in the lottery. It's a game.

                        Gonna win.Big Smile

                          RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                          mid-Ohio
                          United States
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                          Posted: March 30, 2011, 1:13 pm - IP Logged

                          Actually, even in the PB, MM and Pick 6 games, I would like a system that is consistently repeatable so I can at least win back some of the money I am spending while traveling down the road toward the JP. If a system truly works, then it should regularly and consistently be hitting 4/6 and 5/6, or 3/5 and 4/5.

                          Some years back in Virgina a group proved any lottery can be won it you buy every combination.  The problems is, it cost millions of dollars to do.  Your problem is you expect some one to come up with a system that gets similar results for $10-$20 and give it away.  Wake up and stop dreaming, if you think such a system is possible develop one.

                           * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                             
                                       Evil Looking       

                            Avatar
                            Kentucky
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                            Posted: March 30, 2011, 1:21 pm - IP Logged

                            Back testing just prove a system isn't likely to win, not that it will never win.  Back testing quick picks would show they aren't likely to win too but I don't see any one warning QP players about buying them and it doesn't discourage QP players either so why should a system player be any different?

                            Excellent point, RJ!

                            Jimmy keeps talking about how systems can't outperform QPs when he ought to know it's impossible to back test QPs. The last time I looked QPs are only good for one specific drawing. If someone decides to continue to play their QP numbers by using play slips, how are they any different than playing birthday numbers?

                              ameriken's avatar - 33ojew2
                              Denver, Co
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                              Posted: March 30, 2011, 1:28 pm - IP Logged

                              Some years back in Virgina a group proved any lottery can be won it you buy every combination.  The problems is, it cost millions of dollars to do.  Your problem is you expect some one to come up with a system that gets similar results for $10-$20 and give it away.  Wake up and stop dreaming, if you think such a system is possible develop one.

                              Your problem is you expect some one to come up with a system that gets similar results for $10-$20 and give it away. 

                              I expect someone to "come up with a systems and get similar results for $10 to $20 and give it away"?

                              LOL, that's quite an assumption on your part. Your problem is reading something in my post and assuming something that wasn't said. I never said such a thing, nor do I believe such a thing. Wake up and stop dreaming if you think that is what I meant.

                                 
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