mid-Ohio United States Member #9 March 24, 2001 19901 Posts Online

Posted: April 24, 2014, 10:42 am - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by LottoBoner on April 23, 2014

Or a republican?Happy belated birthday btw, RJ from Ohio.

Dont forget to use the polymerase chain reaction to win the Ohio Lottery.

Thank you. After 35-39-40-41-44-47 was drawn last night I became convinced I need to pick more combinations out of the box if I'm going to have a shot at winning the jackpot. I have no knowledge of the polymerase chain reaction, I'll leave that to the Gail Howard fans to use.

* you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket *

United States Member #93947 July 10, 2010 2180 Posts Offline

Posted: May 3, 2014, 11:01 pm - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by JKING on July 22, 2011

My vote is for #2 - prove me wrong. *S*

JKING,

A "new" math? Pure math is neither new nor old, but it can be applied to simple or complex problems. The lottery is one of the simpler ones. If you reject what traditional math tells you about randomness and the lottery, maybe what you need is a new philosophical approach. Reading this thread, I can't help but think that many of the musings here are what Richard Arnold Epstein is referring to when he says, "butting their heads against the Second Law of Thermodynamics."

Economy class Belgium Member #123700 February 27, 2012 4035 Posts Offline

Posted: May 4, 2014, 6:13 am - IP Logged

Jimmy, it is about getting the numbers right, not about philosophy or other that I don't know by definition or studying. Mathematics shows cooked off functions or formulas. The lotteries are winning, they take their share. Other shares go to the state and eventually schools for example. Basically I don't know what the lottery has to do with a school or sportsclub. So even if you are ahead on the chances, you are likely not to win. Some simply say that it is because you don't know in advance what the outcome will be. Maybe think about that, because that is what it is.

Jimmy, it is about getting the numbers right, not about philosophy or other that I don't know by definition or studying. Mathematics shows cooked off functions or formulas. The lotteries are winning, they take their share. Other shares go to the state and eventually schools for example. Basically I don't know what the lottery has to do with a school or sportsclub. So even if you are ahead on the chances, you are likely not to win. Some simply say that it is because you don't know in advance what the outcome will be. Maybe think about that, because that is what it is.

SergeM,

? I think you need to reread the poll question. And then, visit my 2 links again.

I was hoping someone might see the subtle connection between free will and perceptions of randomness.

United States Member #5599 July 13, 2004 1192 Posts Offline

Posted: May 5, 2014, 12:18 pm - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by jimmy4164 on May 3, 2014

JKING,

A "new" math? Pure math is neither new nor old, but it can be applied to simple or complex problems. The lottery is one of the simpler ones. If you reject what traditional math tells you about randomness and the lottery, maybe what you need is a new philosophical approach. Reading this thread, I can't help but think that many of the musings here are what Richard Arnold Epstein is referring to when he says, "butting their heads against the Second Law of Thermodynamics."

Was calculus a new math form the times when algebra was high math? Was algebra a new math from the times when addition, subtraction, and division where state of the art? I guess it is comfortable living in a flat world, because that might be the only current knowledge. But, win or lose, there are those out there exploring just to see if there is more.

I reallly don't have anything else to say regarding this spin on the poll be taken. I'd rather spend my time toward practical, useable, and more successful aplications.

Thanks for your input.

JKING

You are a slave to the choices you have made. jk

Even a blind squirrel will occasioanlly find an acorn.

Was calculus a new math form the times when algebra was high math? Was algebra a new math from the times when addition, subtraction, and division where state of the art? I guess it is comfortable living in a flat world, because that might be the only current knowledge. But, win or lose, there are those out there exploring just to see if there is more.

I reallly don't have anything else to say regarding this spin on the poll be taken. I'd rather spend my time toward practical, useable, and more successful aplications.

Thanks for your input.

JKING

JKING,

"But, win or lose, there are those out there exploring just to see if there is more."

Based on your comments and your interest in phys.org, I suspect you are more up to date on the current state of mathematics than most. I hope you would agree that those exploring should at least have a reasonable grasp of what's considered state of the art before attempting to invent something "new." Although I'm not in his camp, I believe Derek Abbott down under approaches these issues intelligently - a far cry from some of the curiosities presented here at LP. I think he will eventually face the "wall" described by LaPlace.

This is why I pointed you toward a more philosophical view, indirect as it may be. BTW, I agree with Sam Harris on a lot of issues, but his view of Free Will may end up not being one of them.

"I'd rather spend my time toward practical, useable, and more successful aplications."

United States Member #93947 July 10, 2010 2180 Posts Offline

Posted: May 5, 2014, 6:13 pm - IP Logged

P.S. Upon further review, I see I should not have said I'm not in Derek Abbott's "camp." He actually provides a great example for anyone searching for "new" horizons in science. It's very doubtful you will find him trying to predict the draws from Ping Pong Ball machines.

mississippi United States Member #34478 March 3, 2006 5906 Posts Offline

Posted: May 6, 2014, 12:15 am - IP Logged

I THINK WEBSTERS AND WIKI will have to change their definition of RANDOM before its all over with...

FIRST OF ALL..IF YOU HAVENT figured this part out yet...then you are already to far behind and you probably will not catch up anyway...

ACTUALLY THERE ARE 2 TYPES OF RANDOM...INFINITE RANDOM...and FINITE RANDOM...and that is what we RESEARCH IS THE FINITE ONE...because it represents a SET..., A BEGINNING AND END...LIKE THAT 0-9 SEQUENCE..and it is all compressed to PLANET EARTH..

NOW INFINITE RANDOM...welll thats REALLY AND TRUELY THE big one...THAT IS THE ONE YOU CANT FIND ANYTHING IN UNTIL AFTER THE event...for example...SOME UNKNOWN event THAT WOULD CAUSE A comet TO GET KNOCKED OUT OF ITS ORBIT IN THE ORT CLOUD and it starts heading toward the SUN but..you have no idea what caused it...could have been a small or large collision or something...maybe something a little bigger came by and drug it out of its orbit...the possibilities are almost limitless...but here on EARTH where we all live things get COMPRESSED and follow certain rules...ESPECIALLY LARGE NUMBER FIELDS or ANY EVENT THAT RUNS ALL THE TIME...LIKE CAR WRECKS...MURDERS...BANK ROBBERIES...LIGHTENING STRIKES......see those EVENTS are suppose to be RANDOM also...but if we already KNOW THEY ARE GOING TO happen...how can it be RANDOM...whats missing....THE TIME OF THE EVENT...AND WHERE depending on what EVENT you are studying...but the lottery is a little different...WE ALREADY KNOW WHERE...its in a certain place...one of the 43 states is where...but we dont know THE WHEN..and I am not talking about the DRAWING TIME WHEN either...I AM TALKING ABOUT FINDING THE RIGHT COMBINATION WHEN...OR WIN...hahaha

I have stated quite often that I dont think Math will or can solve RANDM..there are just to many VARIABLES RUNNING in even the smallest game as PIC 3 to solve them all...and account for them all WHICH WOULD ALLOW YOU TO GO DRAW TO DRAW TO DRAW TO DRAW...and there is NOWAY THATS EVER GOING TO HAPPEN...so that leaves us with finding as many shortcuts as we can find to help improve our chances...like roots..sums...v-traks..or whatever it is you use...one of the biggest things to know is JUST HOW IMPORTANT THAT 0-9 SEQUENCE IS...because you see...in order for MATH to solve something...they usually have to BALANCE THE EQUATION...you put something into the formula...and BAM you get an answer...so...the only thing you can start with on LOTERY NUMBER FIELDS is that 0-9 sequence...because it never STOPS RUNNING...EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..ITS THE ONLY constant YOU HAVE IN number fields...AND numbers leave trails to follow JUST LIKE A bunch of bread crumbs...THAT IS WHY THEY TAKE OUT ALL THOSE so called TEST DRAWS AND POST TEST DRAWS...WHICH IS STUPID...YOU TESTED TO GET TO THE DRAWING WHY IN THE NAME OF terry WOULD YOU NEED TO post test anything at all...that alone should tell you its DESIGNED TO DISRUPT THE NATURAL FLOW OF NUMBERS...and it works perfectly...

WHEN IT SAYS ON POWERBALLS WEBSITE WHAT IS IT...LIKE 80% OF ALL WINNERS ARE QUICK PICS...ITS BECAUSE EVERY 3 MONTHS THEY have 24 DRAWS THEY PAY FOR AND 130 ONES THEY JUST THROW IN THE GARBAGE...and that is why you cant win...sure..you might get lucky here and there and hit 10 k here and there...but if you are not careful...you will lose 10 k just as fast as you won it...you want to actually win...or hit the 5 white balls...then all of you should do as much as you can about those ILLEGAL DRAWING PROCEDURES THEY HAVE EVERY SINGLE DRAWING!!!!!!!

BECAUSE IF ANY OF YOU THINK FOR ONE SECOND THAT THOSE DRAWINGS ARE NOT KILLING ANY RESEARCH YOU ARE DOING...THEN YOU WILL BELIEVE ANYTHING..SO PLEASE ALLOW ME TO RE-INTRODUCE MYSELF...ITS NICE TO MEET YOU...I AM THE EASTER BUNNY!!!!!

"Attention all Mathematicians: Check your degree at the door because when it comes to whole numbers you are the Amateur"

United States Member #93947 July 10, 2010 2180 Posts Offline

Posted: May 6, 2014, 3:20 am - IP Logged

lotterybraker,

I think I might have actually heard you screaming that "Math cannot SOLVE RANDOM!" I never thought about SOLVING RANDOM, I guess, because I always assumed that difficult to categorize adjectives like "random" were not the kinds of things one could or would try to "solve."

So, to help me understand where you're "coming from," could you please explain, precisely, just what it is you mean by "SOLVING RANDOM?" It would also be interesting to know what disciplines (other than math) you believe might be up to the task, as you hopefully will define it.

mississippi United States Member #34478 March 3, 2006 5906 Posts Offline

Posted: May 6, 2014, 12:07 pm - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by jimmy4164 on May 6, 2014

lotterybraker,

I think I might have actually heard you screaming that "Math cannot SOLVE RANDOM!" I never thought about SOLVING RANDOM, I guess, because I always assumed that difficult to categorize adjectives like "random" were not the kinds of things one could or would try to "solve."

So, to help me understand where you're "coming from," could you please explain, precisely, just what it is you mean by "SOLVING RANDOM?" It would also be interesting to know what disciplines (other than math) you believe might be up to the task, as you hopefully will define it.

--Jimmy4164

Here you go Jimmy..this is WIKI'S DEF. OF randomness..if you will

Randomness means lack of pattern or predictability in events.^{[1]} Randomness suggests a non-order or non-coherence in a sequence of symbols or steps, such that there is no intelligible pattern or combination.

IT IS EXACTLY THE SAMETHING as STATISTICS AND PROBABILITY...in my honest opinion...STATISTICS AND PROBABILITY WAS THOUGHT OF JUST TO COME UP WITH HE ODDS FOR GAMBLING...I REALLY think they were trying to solve RANDOM ..I went and saw a PROFESSOR OF MATHEMATICS and he told me that THE PAST HAS NO EFFECT ON THE FUTURE...which is ABSOLUTE 100 % FALSE STATEMENT..

WHAT YOU CALL RANDOM IS ANYTHING THAT CANT BE SOLVED using any type of thinking or tricks...but that isnt true at all...there is a CONSTANT RUNNING with anything in random statistics , probability or whatever you want to call it...and its that 0-9 sequence...you cant stop it under no circumstances can you..besides if you use STATISTICS AND PROBABILITY on the lottery...what are you doing really...??

WELL..you are just finding an AVERAGE IS ALL...THATS IT...STATISTICS SAYS IF YOU HAVE A 1000 NUMBER FIELD AND SOMETHING SHOWS 5 TIMES..THEN ITS average is 5 times in that 1000 number field...but what is wrong with that...THE ABSOLUTE BIGGEST THING WRONG WITH THAT...IT DOES NOT TELL YOU WHEN DOES IT...it could be the very first 5...the very last 5 in the 1000 number field...it could be all 5 in the middle...5 under a 100...5 over 100 less than 200..see..we are starting to get into many variables here...so LIKE I SAID STATISTICS AND PROBABILITY MEANS NOTHINGGGGGGG...AND if I had to make a VERY EDUCATED GUESS AGAIN..I WOULD TELL YOU and everyone those 2 branches were thought of as an ATTEMPT to solve WHAT EVERYONE CALLS RANDOM...SOMETHING THEY CANT SEE but knows is coming..but dont know when or where... you know..car wrecks...murders, earthquakes, tornados, bank robberies, the rise and fall of the stock market...things you already know that are going to happen but you dont know when or where and that is what makes it RANDOM...its FINITE here on EARTH it has a beginning and an end...EVERYTHING HAS A BEGINNING AND END ON THIS EARTH...INCLUDING EVERY EVENT YOU CAN THINK OF which would include even lightening striking every square inch on planet earth..which SINCE OUR PLANET IS ALMOST 5 BILLION years old..I think it has accomplished that a few times I would bet...that is a finite random field that is steal running...just like your lottery...it created a number field first drawing...and its still running...AND THAT MEANS YOU CAN FIND THINGS WITH BETTER INFORMATION THAT STATISTICS OR PROBABILITY that gives you nothing about TIME...JUST AN AVERAGE AMOUNT OF TIMES...but NO WHEN IS IT COMING..JUST like I have said in the past...I could ask my granddaughter to give me a pic 3 number today to play...say she gives 567...well she is right...its in there somewhere...but she has NO IDEA OF TIME...and that is DESCRIBING STATISTICS AND PROBABILITY...they have no idea of time either..JUST AN AVERAGE and that is not good enough...its not enough to know a statistical average or a PROBABILITY AVERAGE when it WILL NOT GIVE YOU ANY PORTION OF TIME...and with the pic 3 games lasting anywhere from probably 10-16 years to get just the first set of 1000 combinations out...that so CALLED MATH DEPARTMENT DOESNT HELP ME WITH TIME ON ANYTHING...who in their mind wants to wait 10-16 years to get a lock on a few combos that are owed to complete the field to win some money...I dont even like waiting 2 months for my straight runs...let alone 10-16 years...

"Attention all Mathematicians: Check your degree at the door because when it comes to whole numbers you are the Amateur"

United States Member #93947 July 10, 2010 2180 Posts Offline

Posted: May 6, 2014, 3:48 pm - IP Logged

lotterybraker,

I assume you agree with the definition of randomness that you quoted above:

"Randomness means lack of pattern or predictability in events.[1] Randomness suggests a non-order or non-coherence in a sequence of symbols or steps, such that there is no intelligible pattern or combination."

If what you mean by "solving random" is the ability to predict the next event, previousely considered random, then, according to the definition, the event would no longer be random, would it?

What alternatives to mathematics do you suggest to accomplish this change of state?

San Angelo, Texas United States Member #1097 January 31, 2003 1405 Posts Offline

Posted: May 6, 2014, 4:35 pm - IP Logged

General comment

I've been reading these kinds of posts on random, etc, for 10 years. You would think there would be a consensus the majority would accept, but, egos seem to getting in the way. If there is a method or system that will accurately and consistently predict the next winning combination, I doubt the owner could keep it secret. If the owner is macho selfish and using the method to win lots of money, I doubt he/she could get away with it for very long. I've read many jackpot winner stories and never felt there was a connection with other wins. Of course, the person could be a small time player and be satisfied with lower state prizes. But, human nature being what it is, keeping that kind of secret for very long is doubtful.

Now we have a company called Steve Player that seems to have luck playing the Daily Games. I've gotten offers in the mail that show graphics of winning Pick 4 tickets. There is no doubt the company has a winning method, but not one that wins all the time, or one average players could afford. If I had the deep pockets Steve Player has, I'd be playing hundreds of combinations in every drawing. I'd win often, but, I wouldn't reveal how much I spent.

It would surely would be appreciated if all the math-heads here would get off the random subject and start talking about alternative playing methods, like substitution. I'm not talking about the manifold methods one can find in the Systems, Pick 3 and Pick 4 forums. These have been tried for 40 plus years and not a one can pass a test because they all have one major fault - the owner wants everyone to believe that he/she has found the secret and can predict winning combinations right up to the last minute before a drawing takes place. Bullcrap!! The only methods that, in my opinion, have a chance are the ones that study the history of the game, define it's progress with useful tracking charts and rely on interpretation of TRENDS to make choices on which digits have best chance of winning. No predictions, just solid, educated guesswork.

Economy class Belgium Member #123700 February 27, 2012 4035 Posts Offline

Posted: May 6, 2014, 5:53 pm - IP Logged

Let's say that we flip coins. We just had 5 heads and you only want to play the next 5 flips, than stop.

It seems to be obvious to you that tail must come up, but in mathematics there is this one case in probability, where tail never comes up! So that is the part where you can say that studying the past won't work, because the idea that tail must come up is just not true.

Let's say that we flip coins. We just had 5 heads and you only want to play the next 5 flips, than stop.

It seems to be obvious to you that tail must come up, but in mathematics there is this one case in probability, where tail never comes up! So that is the part where you can say that studying the past won't work, because the idea that tail must come up is just not true.

OH..I JUST LOVE IT WHEN someone brings up the COIN FLIP ARGUMENT...I GOT NEWS FOR YOU..I CAN FLIP A COIN AND GET 10 HEADS IN A ROW..OR 10 TAILS...ANYTIME I CHOOSE TO DO IT!!!!

YOU KNOW WHY...ITS CALLED CONTROLLING THE VARIABLES....

AND I DONT REALLY CARE what you call the lottery..a game of chance...fun...something to waste your money on..RANDOM...read a car tag number today...tomorrow pull a number out of hat...on Friday buy a quick pic...I dont really care what any of you consider what is RANDOM and what isnt...

BECAUSE I got news for you...those balls bouncing around makes it RANDOM...them swapping out pic 3 balls to the pic 4 games makes it Random...all those illegal draws they take out MAKES IT RANDOM...but you do have the ABILITY, WELL SOME OF US DO ANYWAY...to find shortcuts to help get something to show SOONER RATHER than much later...and that my friends is just about the BEST YOU CAN DO WITH WHAT YOU ARE DEALING WITH...

AND AS FAR AS THE EGO STATEMENT GOES...YOU DAMM STRAIGHT I HAVE ONE...I DIDNT CALL THE FBI TWICE.AND THE NSA ONCE TO TELL THEM I LEARNED HOW TO COUNT FROM 0 TO 9...!!!!!!

"Attention all Mathematicians: Check your degree at the door because when it comes to whole numbers you are the Amateur"