adelaide sa Australia
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April 11, 2006
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the thing thats most amusing with this thread is that EVERYONE agrees to the facts at the core of the issue. they just have a problem agreeing to the terminoligy to describe the facts.
" Still swinging, still missing "
2014 = -1016; 2015= -1409; 2016 = -1171; 2017 = -1257 ; 2018 = - 1380 = TOT = - 6233
Kentucky United States
Member #32,651
February 14, 2006
10,303 Posts
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Quote: Originally posted by mcginnin56 on Feb 25, 2012
"When PB was $1 ticket you got the same $1 million guarantee with Powerplay and the Megaplier too with MM having less odds against matching 5+0"
There was no "GUARANTEE" to get $1 million in the "OLD" Powerball with Powerplay. For the extra dollar you rolled the dice and could receive anywhere from 2x-5x the second tier prize of $200k. You could have scored $400k, $600K, $800k or $1 million; how is that a "GUARANTEE" that you would
receive $1 million? Same with MM with Megaplier, no "GUARANTEE" anywhere. The only guarantee is that by playing with Megaplier you could receive
2x -4x the lower tier prizes.
You mentioned that in another thread that I said Powerplay GUARANTEED $1 million for matching 5+0 in 2007????????? That's total BULL!
Produce that thread, you won't because I never said it. What I said is if I Power played in "07" I could have doubled my second prize to $400k,
because the Powerplay # came up as 2x.
"There was no "GUARANTEE" to get $1 million in the "OLD" Powerball with Powerplay."
Then explain how two Powerplay players each won $1 million on January 11, 2012 when the multiplier was 2 "in the OLD PB". On 1/4 when the multiplier was 4, 12/24 when it was 2, or three years ago on February 21, 2009, one Powerplayer won $1 million when the multiplier was 4.
"What I said is if I Power played in "07" I could have doubled my second prize to $400k, because the Powerplay # came up as 2x."
According to USA Mega Powerplay guaranteed $1 million on Jan. 3, 2007.
Winners By Prize Level (All States Combined)
Match First 5
+
Match Powerball
No. of
Winners
Prize Amount
Total Awarded
5 + 1 (Jackpot)
0
$100,000,000
$0
5 + 0
with Power Play †
6
2
$200,000
$1,000,000
$1,200,000
$2,000,000
4 + 1
with Power Play
37
4
$10,000
$30,000
$370,000
$120,000
4 + 0
with Power Play
1,150
269
$100
$300
$115,000
$80,700
3 + 1
with Power Play
1,509
312
$100
$300
$150,900
$93,600
2 + 1
with Power Play
62,087
13,360
$7
$21
$434,609
$280,560
3 + 0
with Power Play
25,294
5,604
$7
$21
$177,058
$117,684
1 + 1
with Power Play
144,519
31,330
$4
$12
$578,076
$375,960
0 + 1
with Power Play
259,685
54,471
$3
$9
$779,055
$490,239
Total
599,639
$7,363,441
† Power Play at this level is always 5.
"You mentioned that in another thread that I said Powerplay GUARANTEED $1 million for matching 5+0 in 2007????????? "
Nope, I mentioned that another member (CrazyHazyYah!: "Just letting you know for future reference, the multiplier is irrelevant when it comes to the second-tier, 5-0 prize. If you played Powerplay back then, it would have made it $1,000,000 automatically.") said it. Either Crazy and USA Mega is giving me false information or you are.
"That's total BULL! "
You're the one that said you "absolutely believe" you'll win a jackpot and yesterday said:
"Just speaking for myself garyo, I obviously would love to win the elusive jackpot, but I'm also gunning also for that second prize of a cool $1,000,000 As you indicated the odd's have not changed for getting the first 5 white balls. So to kick in an extra buck to get a "guaranteed" $1 Mill. if you score all"
Pardon me for pointing out that someone who "absolutely believes" had their chance to "kick in an extra buck" and win "a guaranteed $1 million" but didn't.
"Produce that thread, you won't because I never said it. "
I assumed you acknowledge there was $1 million Powerplay guarantee because you never replied to CrazyHazyYah!'s correction. But considering we had one poster giving Brad Duke a 7 year belated congrats for winning, another calling Idaho a racist state because very few minorities lives there, and a third giving us the Obama family travel log, I may have missed you're reply to Crazy. Or maybe I thought you were correcting yourself when you said "Just a correction to my own reply, it is also not an option when you get 5+0 to win $1,000,000 with Powerball. Just the standard $2/ticket."
I produced "† Power Play at this level is always 5." from USA Mega. Can you produce anything to prove a Powerplay 5+0 winner in "07" won less than $1 million?
United States
Member #111,437
May 25, 2011
6,323 Posts
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Quote: Originally posted by Stack47 on Feb 25, 2012
"There was no "GUARANTEE" to get $1 million in the "OLD" Powerball with Powerplay."
Then explain how two Powerplay players each won $1 million on January 11, 2012 when the multiplier was 2 "in the OLD PB". On 1/4 when the multiplier was 4, 12/24 when it was 2, or three years ago on February 21, 2009, one Powerplayer won $1 million when the multiplier was 4.
"What I said is if I Power played in "07" I could have doubled my second prize to $400k, because the Powerplay # came up as 2x."
According to USA Mega Powerplay guaranteed $1 million on Jan. 3, 2007.
Winners By Prize Level (All States Combined)
Match First 5
+
Match Powerball
No. of
Winners
Prize Amount
Total Awarded
5 + 1 (Jackpot)
0
$100,000,000
$0
5 + 0
with Power Play †
6
2
$200,000
$1,000,000
$1,200,000
$2,000,000
4 + 1
with Power Play
37
4
$10,000
$30,000
$370,000
$120,000
4 + 0
with Power Play
1,150
269
$100
$300
$115,000
$80,700
3 + 1
with Power Play
1,509
312
$100
$300
$150,900
$93,600
2 + 1
with Power Play
62,087
13,360
$7
$21
$434,609
$280,560
3 + 0
with Power Play
25,294
5,604
$7
$21
$177,058
$117,684
1 + 1
with Power Play
144,519
31,330
$4
$12
$578,076
$375,960
0 + 1
with Power Play
259,685
54,471
$3
$9
$779,055
$490,239
Total
599,639
$7,363,441
† Power Play at this level is always 5.
"You mentioned that in another thread that I said Powerplay GUARANTEED $1 million for matching 5+0 in 2007????????? "
Nope, I mentioned that another member (CrazyHazyYah!: "Just letting you know for future reference, the multiplier is irrelevant when it comes to the second-tier, 5-0 prize. If you played Powerplay back then, it would have made it $1,000,000 automatically.") said it. Either Crazy and USA Mega is giving me false information or you are.
"That's total BULL! "
You're the one that said you "absolutely believe" you'll win a jackpot and yesterday said:
"Just speaking for myself garyo, I obviously would love to win the elusive jackpot, but I'm also gunning also for that second prize of a cool $1,000,000 As you indicated the odd's have not changed for getting the first 5 white balls. So to kick in an extra buck to get a "guaranteed" $1 Mill. if you score all"
Pardon me for pointing out that someone who "absolutely believes" had their chance to "kick in an extra buck" and win "a guaranteed $1 million" but didn't.
"Produce that thread, you won't because I never said it. "
I assumed you acknowledge there was $1 million Powerplay guarantee because you never replied to CrazyHazyYah!'s correction. But considering we had one poster giving Brad Duke a 7 year belated congrats for winning, another calling Idaho a racist state because very few minorities lives there, and a third giving us the Obama family travel log, I may have missed you're reply to Crazy. Or maybe I thought you were correcting yourself when you said "Just a correction to my own reply, it is also not an option when you get 5+0 to win $1,000,000 with Powerball. Just the standard $2/ticket."
I produced "† Power Play at this level is always 5." from USA Mega. Can you produce anything to prove a Powerplay 5+0 winner in "07" won less than $1 million?
Here we go again........
Since Powerball's inception on April 19, 1992 it has gone threw through several modifications. We need to "define" which "older" Powerball game
and prize structure you are referring to. In 2007, regardless of your sources, when the Power play option was exercised there was no
"automatic" $1 million second prize award. The "multiplier" was spun and you had the opportunity to receive 2x-5x the second tier prize
of $200k period.
On January 4, 2009 according to Wikipedia, the Power play was then modified so that anyone spending the extra dollar for the Power play option
would automatically receive $1 million for the second tier prize of $200k. So all your graph's indicating a payout of $1 million for anyone who Power
played after this date, and hit all five white balls are correct.
Because me or any other member of this forum doesn't respond to every single post is no admission or denial of anything.
When responding to garyo my statement was absolutely correct. With the "current" rules and prize structure in place, for kicking in an extra buck I
am gunning for that guaranteed $1 million, if I am fortunate enough to hit all five white balls again. PHEWWW............
Republic of Texas United States
Member #57,555
January 9, 2008
1,095 Posts
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Quote: Originally posted by mcginnin56 on Feb 25, 2012
It's okay to be shocked Ruud. Just don't be beating your head against that brick wall for to long, not worth getting a concussion over.
With a degree in Business Management, I to am frustrated over the inability for some of our posters who cannot grasp the basics of 101
economics, or even basic math. We must be understanding, forgiving, compassionate......then continue beating our heads against brick walls.
As an Accountant, I say ticket sales are down, revenue and profits are up. Units do matter, because when you explain your year over year variances to management, units become part of the equation, otherwise how would you explain a 100% price increase with only a 50% revenue increase? What happens if number of ticket sales drop to less than 50% of previous levels, say even 50%? 1,000,000 tickets sold at $1 vs 500,000 tickets sold at $2 becomes a net $0 growth in revenue with a 100% price increase. How is that explained to management... unit sales
Units matter to accountants, too. :)
Y'all are arguing apples and oranges. Reminds me of conservatives vs liberals. They just think differently.
As a PB player, I'm disappointed in the draw to draw $ cash increase, which to me is a huge negative since they doubled the price and claimed jackpots will increase faster.
United States
Member #111,437
May 25, 2011
6,323 Posts
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Quote: Originally posted by Piaceri on Feb 26, 2012
As an Accountant, I say ticket sales are down, revenue and profits are up. Units do matter, because when you explain your year over year variances to management, units become part of the equation, otherwise how would you explain a 100% price increase with only a 50% revenue increase? What happens if number of ticket sales drop to less than 50% of previous levels, say even 50%? 1,000,000 tickets sold at $1 vs 500,000 tickets sold at $2 becomes a net $0 growth in revenue with a 100% price increase. How is that explained to management... unit sales
Units matter to accountants, too. :)
Y'all are arguing apples and oranges. Reminds me of conservatives vs liberals. They just think differently.
As a PB player, I'm disappointed in the draw to draw $ cash increase, which to me is a huge negative since they doubled the price and claimed jackpots will increase faster.
We need Accountants, thank you for your services. I agree that from a business prospective, units are just as important in factoring in ongoing
Zeta Reticuli Star System United States
Member #30,469
January 17, 2006
11,791 Posts
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Quote: Originally posted by Ruud on Feb 25, 2012
The lotteries don't need to hype anything. The numbers speak for themselves. Plus, they're probably too busy enjoying the higher sales and profits for education, veterans, general fund, etc. while the players enjoy larger jackpot growth, higher 2nd place prizes, etc.
Here you go, Ruud, from today's (Feb 26th 2012) St Louis Post dispatch. Here's an example of a state hype job and voodoo accounting by the state, the lottery, and education funds. Read on:
McClellan: It's hard to say no to elderly veterans
St Louis Today.com | Posted: Sunday, February 26, 2012 12:05 am
The Missouri Legislature has come up with a scheme — excuse me, a plan — to take casino entrance fee money that used to go to early childhood education programs and divert it to veterans' homes.
But don't worry about those early childhood education programs. They will be funded by cutting the money available for lottery prizes.
Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any. So many systems, so many theories, so few jackpot winners.
There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.
United States
Member #123,128
February 14, 2012
55 Posts
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This really isn't hype or voodoo accounting. Missouri is going to pass a bill to reduce prize payout from 62.5 to 59% (or something like that). The extra money will be earmarked for childhood education and the casino entrance fees will go towards veteran's programs.
Obviously, lotteries advertise and "hype," but, with regard to the issue of Powerball sales and revenue, there's nothing to oversell. Revenue and profits are up.
United States
Member #123,128
February 14, 2012
55 Posts
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Quote: Originally posted by Piaceri on Feb 26, 2012
As an Accountant, I say ticket sales are down, revenue and profits are up. Units do matter, because when you explain your year over year variances to management, units become part of the equation, otherwise how would you explain a 100% price increase with only a 50% revenue increase? What happens if number of ticket sales drop to less than 50% of previous levels, say even 50%? 1,000,000 tickets sold at $1 vs 500,000 tickets sold at $2 becomes a net $0 growth in revenue with a 100% price increase. How is that explained to management... unit sales
Units matter to accountants, too. :)
Y'all are arguing apples and oranges. Reminds me of conservatives vs liberals. They just think differently.
As a PB player, I'm disappointed in the draw to draw $ cash increase, which to me is a huge negative since they doubled the price and claimed jackpots will increase faster.
I suppose I could stomach the explanation of "ticket sales are down, revenue and profits are up," but at the end of the day, all that really matters is revenue (which increased) vs. costs (margins stayed the same).
The point remains that the switch to the $2 ticket was a positive and profitable business decision for Powerball.
Texas United States
Member #4,549
May 2, 2004
4,228 Posts
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Quote: Originally posted by Ruud on Feb 26, 2012
I suppose I could stomach the explanation of "ticket sales are down, revenue and profits are up," but at the end of the day, all that really matters is revenue (which increased) vs. costs (margins stayed the same).
The point remains that the switch to the $2 ticket was a positive and profitable business decision for Powerball.
That's what John Wayne said, just before 175,000,000 Indians showed up at his tent.
upstate NY United States
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March 31, 2011
549 Posts
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Quote: Originally posted by savagegoose on Feb 25, 2012
the thing thats most amusing with this thread is that EVERYONE agrees to the facts at the core of the issue. they just have a problem agreeing to the terminoligy to describe the facts.
Indeed. If your definition of "sales" is "number of tickets sold", then sales are down. If your definition of "sales" is "dollar value of tickets sold", then sales are up.
Kentucky United States
Member #32,651
February 14, 2006
10,303 Posts
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Quote: Originally posted by mcginnin56 on Feb 26, 2012
Here we go again........
Since Powerball's inception on April 19, 1992 it has gone threw through several modifications. We need to "define" which "older" Powerball game
and prize structure you are referring to. In 2007, regardless of your sources, when the Power play option was exercised there was no
"automatic" $1 million second prize award. The "multiplier" was spun and you had the opportunity to receive 2x-5x the second tier prize
of $200k period.
On January 4, 2009 according to Wikipedia, the Power play was then modified so that anyone spending the extra dollar for the Power play option
would automatically receive $1 million for the second tier prize of $200k. So all your graph's indicating a payout of $1 million for anyone who Power
played after this date, and hit all five white balls are correct.
Because me or any other member of this forum doesn't respond to every single post is no admission or denial of anything.
When responding to garyo my statement was absolutely correct. With the "current" rules and prize structure in place, for kicking in an extra buck I
am gunning for that guaranteed $1 million, if I am fortunate enough to hit all five white balls again. PHEWWW............
"Here we go again"
It's a anonymous message board where people can spread any type of BS as fact they like. Not saying that you're spreading BS, but it's obvious this isn't the first time your facts were challenged.
"We need to "define" which "older" Powerball game"
It's not necessary to define anything after you said "Just speaking for myself garyo, I obviously would love to win the elusive jackpot, but I'm also gunning also for that second prize of a cool $1,000,000 As you indicated the odd's have not changed for getting the first 5 white balls. So to kick in an extra buck to get a "guaranteed" $1 Mill. if you score all" because you were obviously talking about the "old PB", the drawing before the ticket price was changed to $2, but didn't know "old Power Play" guaranteed $1 million. The odds did change in 2009, but since you said "have not change" that has to be the "older PB game" you were referring to.
"On January 4, 2009 according to Wikipedia, the Power play was then modified so that anyone spending the extra dollar for the Power play option would automatically receive $1 million for the second tier prize of $200k. So all your graph's indicating a payout of $1 million for anyone who Powerplayed after this date, and hit all five white balls are correct."
The Powerball site says beginning on that date "Match 5 with Power Play always wins $1,000,000 Cash" and ran yearly 10x Power Play promotions beginning in 2006. Anybody could kick in an extra buck to win a cool million for the past 3 years, but that option is gone because you can't no longer buy a $1 PB ticket.
"Because me or any other member of this forum doesn't respond to every single post is no admission or denial of anything."
It looked to me like you were correcting yourself when you posted "Just a correction to my own reply, it is also not an option when you get 5+0 to win $1,000,000 with Powerball. Just the standard $2/ticket." It certainly looks like you knew Power Play guaranteed $1 million before the ticket price was raised to $2 but still went on to say "There was no "GUARANTEE" to get $1 million in the "OLD" Powerball with Powerplay." as if it was fact.
"With the "current" rules and prize structure in place, for kicking in an extra buck I am gunning for that guaranteed $1 million, if I am fortunate enough to hit all five white balls again."
This conversation started when you said "Well I haven't hit the big one yet Cletu$, but I absolutely believe it is going to happen and soon!" and my remarks questioned an "absolute belief", but not spending the extra buck to back it up. Apparently now it's been down graded to "gunning for" just like the rest of us casual players who now must kick in an extra buck because that's the price of a ticket.
"As others said, millions of players (like Brad Duke) probably "absolutely believe" they will win the jackpot too. I don't know if PB had the Power Play option in 2007."
I never pretended I knew when Power Play began or when it was change to "Match 5 with Power Play always wins $1,000,000 Cash" but I knew it existed in 2010 and you did say "There was no "GUARANTEE" to get $1 million in the "OLD" Powerball with Powerplay." I questioned why a "true believer" didn't get multiple tickets or Power Play if it was an option in 2007 (which it was) when $400,000 was the minimum win potential.
I quoted the January, 2007 results from USA Mega which is Lottery Post's sister site. Knowing Todd's accuracy, it probably does say somewhere in the site when Power Play began guaranteeing $1 million, but I didn't see it. I just copied and pasted the results from the first drawing in 2007 and quoted the source.
Zeta Reticuli Star System United States
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January 17, 2006
11,791 Posts
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Quote: Originally posted by mediabrat on Feb 26, 2012
Indeed. If your definition of "sales" is "number of tickets sold", then sales are down. If your definition of "sales" is "dollar value of tickets sold", then sales are up.
mediabrat,
But whose definition does the lottery use?
Just look at a ticket and the demographice the lotteries consider go far, far beyond number of tickets sold and total $$ coming in.
When they run their numbers it's state by state (5+1 games) and within that highest sales, lowest sales, etc, etc...down to the individual stores.
As some here have tried to tell others here, since the $2 ticket, PB has made more $$$ but with less people playing.
Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any. So many systems, so many theories, so few jackpot winners.
There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.
NY United States
Member #121,955
January 21, 2012
3,169 Posts
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They could atleast increase the lower prizes. Two numbers gets a free ticket. Two of five plus pb pays 20$. Maybe they should call it PonziBall. Big investments, promised returns.