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Why Do Mathematicians Consider The Lottery Random

Topic closed. 261 replies. Last post 5 years ago by Boney526.

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CARBOB's avatar - FL LOTTERY_LOGO.png
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Posted: August 21, 2011, 4:30 am - IP Logged

I have searched the web, visited a lot of sites. No where have I found an explanation. Is it because they consider the lottery machines free of interference?

    CARBOB's avatar - FL LOTTERY_LOGO.png
    ORLANDO, FLORIDA
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    Posted: August 21, 2011, 6:58 am - IP Logged

    Found this @ http://mathworld.wolfram.com/RandomNumber.html

    Computer-generated random numbers are sometimes called pseudorandom numbers, while the term "random" is reserved for the output of unpredictable physical processes. When used without qualification, the word "random" usually means "random with a uniform distribution." Other distributions are of course possible. For example, the Box-Muller transformation allows pairs of uniform random numbers to be transformed to corresponding random numbers having a two-dimensional normal distribution.

     

    uniform distribution   http://mathworld.wolfram.com/UniformDistribution.html

     

    Does the above link mean that, Random numbers have equal probability??

      LottoAce's avatar - WWI Flying_Ace.gif
      N.C.
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      Posted: August 21, 2011, 11:22 am - IP Logged

      Its funny you should bring this topic up, for it is one that I have discussed and sometimes even
      argued with friends and colleges many, many times. its seems that no matter how many times
      you show them that the lottery has predictable patterns and prove this to them, they still go on
      believing that the lottery is random and that someone playing  1-2-3 etc. will hit just as often
      as someone who studies the number patterns.

      well, I happen to know a man with a masters in mathematics.
      to quote him, "Nothing in the universe is truly random"
      and he truly does understand math!
      So, not all Mathematicians believe that the lottery is purely random.

      to understand something you must first do your homework. in other words you must study
      it. fact is, and; I would be willing to bet, these sceptics have never even took the first look at
      any lottery from any different perspective other than what they have been preached to in class.
      (just because you have passed a few classes in math doesn't mean that you are an Einstein
      no more than a course in archeology makes you a modern day Indiana Jones. 

      Gail Howard's (author of "Lottery Master Guide" and "How to wheel a fortune") once stated, that
      these so called experts usually hide their ignorance behind some real or imaginary title.

      Vince Lombardi once said, "excellence is measured in ones total dedication to excellence no matter
      what his or her chosen field of endeavor"

      I have collected coins for over 30 years and the one thing I have learned is that you don't
      know squat until you do the research.

      I once had a friend of mine bring me a colonel coin for me to authenticate.
      he told me that the ladies this local colonel tour dismissed it as a reproduction because
      the coin was in too good of condition.
      Upon further evaluation of the coin, I would almost guarantee that the coin is real!!
      now, not to disrespect these ladies at all, they know more about colonel culture than what
      I will ever know. However they are not coin experts.
      No more than a mathematician is a lottery expert.
      they know what they know, but they do not apply wisdom in their equation. and sometimes
      thats the one variable that will totally change ones perspective.

      "know your limitations, but excede your expectations"


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        Posted: August 21, 2011, 11:25 am - IP Logged

        Found this @ http://mathworld.wolfram.com/RandomNumber.html

        Computer-generated random numbers are sometimes called pseudorandom numbers, while the term "random" is reserved for the output of unpredictable physical processes. When used without qualification, the word "random" usually means "random with a uniform distribution." Other distributions are of course possible. For example, the Box-Muller transformation allows pairs of uniform random numbers to be transformed to corresponding random numbers having a two-dimensional normal distribution.

         

        uniform distribution   http://mathworld.wolfram.com/UniformDistribution.html

         

        Does the above link mean that, Random numbers have equal probability??

        "Does the above link mean that, Random numbers have equal probability??"

        It sure does appear that way, doesn't it?


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          June 1, 2009
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          Posted: August 21, 2011, 11:55 am - IP Logged

          Its funny you should bring this topic up, for it is one that I have discussed and sometimes even
          argued with friends and colleges many, many times. its seems that no matter how many times
          you show them that the lottery has predictable patterns and prove this to them, they still go on
          believing that the lottery is random and that someone playing  1-2-3 etc. will hit just as often
          as someone who studies the number patterns.

          well, I happen to know a man with a masters in mathematics.
          to quote him, "Nothing in the universe is truly random"
          and he truly does understand math!
          So, not all Mathematicians believe that the lottery is purely random.

          to understand something you must first do your homework. in other words you must study
          it. fact is, and; I would be willing to bet, these sceptics have never even took the first look at
          any lottery from any different perspective other than what they have been preached to in class.
          (just because you have passed a few classes in math doesn't mean that you are an Einstein
          no more than a course in archeology makes you a modern day Indiana Jones. 

          Gail Howard's (author of "Lottery Master Guide" and "How to wheel a fortune") once stated, that
          these so called experts usually hide their ignorance behind some real or imaginary title.

          Vince Lombardi once said, "excellence is measured in ones total dedication to excellence no matter
          what his or her chosen field of endeavor"

          I have collected coins for over 30 years and the one thing I have learned is that you don't
          know squat until you do the research.

          I once had a friend of mine bring me a colonel coin for me to authenticate.
          he told me that the ladies this local colonel tour dismissed it as a reproduction because
          the coin was in too good of condition.
          Upon further evaluation of the coin, I would almost guarantee that the coin is real!!
          now, not to disrespect these ladies at all, they know more about colonel culture than what
          I will ever know. However they are not coin experts.
          No more than a mathematician is a lottery expert.
          they know what they know, but they do not apply wisdom in their equation. and sometimes
          thats the one variable that will totally change ones perspective.

          they still go on believing that the lottery is random and that someone playing  1-2-3 etc. will hit just as often as someone who studies the number patterns.

          It's not that they believe 123 etc will hit just as often, but they believe it has the same chance as all other combinations to show, which is a true statement, (with exceptions to that rule of course) but I just wanted to clear that up.

          Other than that, I agree with everything else you wrote. The people I encounter aren't even good at math. They buy QPs...

          Some of them were taught things in colleges and Universities that they uphold as truth just because it's the commonly held belief. They repeat the same old cliches about the balls not remembering the past, so every draw is a separate draw independant of the last one. What they fail to realize is that we don't need the balls to remember anything to improve our chances of predicting. They simply don't get it because as you stated, they don't do the research, but they're experts...lol

          A simple example would be the triples in the pick-3. To an inexperienced player, they might believe that a triple has the same chance of showing than any other combo. But had they done their homework they'd know that there's only 10 triples in total, and the remaining combos, singles, and doubles total 990. So a triple has a much less chance of showing. And then of course you have the many tracking options available such as overdue, high, low, pairs, etc....

          And what irks me the most is when they tell me that there's no way to predict, or you'd win everyday and be rich. That definitely proves to me they have absolutely no freaking clue. The point of learning number pattern behaviors is not expect to win everyday, No one can acheive such a feat, but to expect to improve one's chances in winning. If they only knew how stupid they sounded...

            lotterybraker's avatar - pyramid
            mississippi
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            Posted: August 21, 2011, 3:37 pm - IP Logged

            they still go on believing that the lottery is random and that someone playing  1-2-3 etc. will hit just as often as someone who studies the number patterns.

            It's not that they believe 123 etc will hit just as often, but they believe it has the same chance as all other combinations to show, which is a true statement, (with exceptions to that rule of course) but I just wanted to clear that up.

            Other than that, I agree with everything else you wrote. The people I encounter aren't even good at math. They buy QPs...

            Some of them were taught things in colleges and Universities that they uphold as truth just because it's the commonly held belief. They repeat the same old cliches about the balls not remembering the past, so every draw is a separate draw independant of the last one. What they fail to realize is that we don't need the balls to remember anything to improve our chances of predicting. They simply don't get it because as you stated, they don't do the research, but they're experts...lol

            A simple example would be the triples in the pick-3. To an inexperienced player, they might believe that a triple has the same chance of showing than any other combo. But had they done their homework they'd know that there's only 10 triples in total, and the remaining combos, singles, and doubles total 990. So a triple has a much less chance of showing. And then of course you have the many tracking options available such as overdue, high, low, pairs, etc....

            And what irks me the most is when they tell me that there's no way to predict, or you'd win everyday and be rich. That definitely proves to me they have absolutely no freaking clue. The point of learning number pattern behaviors is not expect to win everyday, No one can acheive such a feat, but to expect to improve one's chances in winning. If they only knew how stupid they sounded...

            I have said this before here at LP in the past when a thread was started on RANDOM, Math, Probability..etc..and I will say it again for all of those who didnt  read it last time or wasnt a member here when I said it ...

            EVERY PERSON HERE AT LOTTERYPOST knows more about RANDOM and how it works than any MATHEMATICIAN ON EARTH..simply because we study it everyday..Think about that for a second..Mathematicians go through grade school, high school and college,graduate school and working on their PHD and what did they learn..all they learned was " Just about every single MATHEMATICAL FORMULA that has has ever bn discovered " BY SOMEONE ELSE BY THE WAY", so they mastered how to use them which means...you could do the EXACT SAME THING yourself and become a Mathematician..

             

            I will also say this again..I dont really give a crap about Pascal and his gambling problem which if I am not mistaken started the so called area of Mathematics called PROBABILITY ..WHICH I WILL ARGUE UNTIL THE END OF TIME RANDOM/PROBABILITY IS NOT MATH

             

             

            ONE MORE TIME AND I DONT CARE WHO YOU ARE OR HOW MANY PHDS YOU HAVE IN YOUR POCKET...RANDOM IS NOT MATH...ok..one more time..RANDOM IS NOT MATH...RANDOM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH Math..Terry..you are full of crap..every chart shows it is connected...thats right..every chart you can design, draw, develope will allways be the same..what is hot, what is cool...what is cold, what is suppose to show in this amount of time, etc, etc , etc,...BIG WHOOPPIE WOW WOW..

            A= Lx W

            Pi = 3.14 standard

            A2 + B2 = C2

            E = MC2

            This list can go a long ways...Now lets talk a little more about Random

             

            R= WHAT?...WELL lets work a little bit on that what ok

            1 digit return odd first position

            1 digit return odd second position

            1 digit return odd 3 position

            1 digit even return first position

            1 digit even return second position

            1 digit even return third position

            2 digit return even any position

            2 digit return odd any position

            any double return any position

            1 high one low return any position

            any 3 digit return

            same variables from midday to evening

            same variables from evening to midday

            same variables from midday to midday

            same variables from evening to evening

            same variables from the day before

            same variables for the day after

            these are just some of the variables that are FACE VALUE or you can see them if you look  a little,thats not counting all the variables that you cant see or havent found yet..and yes..all of them are running and you have to find some way to compensate for them...

             

            THE ONLY WAY TO SOLVE THE LOTTERY IS TO FIND EVERY SINGLE VARIBALE AND THEN FIND THE ORDER OF ARRANGEMENT IN WHICH THEY WILL APPEAR...that will allowyou to go to draw to draw to draw and win...like I said before...there are more people here at Lottery Post that knows more about RANDOM than any Mathematician on earth because this is what we study everyday.....1

            "Attention all Mathematicians: Check your degree at the door because when it comes to whole numbers you are the Amateur"

              CARBOB's avatar - FL LOTTERY_LOGO.png
              ORLANDO, FLORIDA
              United States
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              5896 Posts
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              Posted: August 21, 2011, 5:57 pm - IP Logged

              I have said this before here at LP in the past when a thread was started on RANDOM, Math, Probability..etc..and I will say it again for all of those who didnt  read it last time or wasnt a member here when I said it ...

              EVERY PERSON HERE AT LOTTERYPOST knows more about RANDOM and how it works than any MATHEMATICIAN ON EARTH..simply because we study it everyday..Think about that for a second..Mathematicians go through grade school, high school and college,graduate school and working on their PHD and what did they learn..all they learned was " Just about every single MATHEMATICAL FORMULA that has has ever bn discovered " BY SOMEONE ELSE BY THE WAY", so they mastered how to use them which means...you could do the EXACT SAME THING yourself and become a Mathematician..

               

              I will also say this again..I dont really give a crap about Pascal and his gambling problem which if I am not mistaken started the so called area of Mathematics called PROBABILITY ..WHICH I WILL ARGUE UNTIL THE END OF TIME RANDOM/PROBABILITY IS NOT MATH

               

               

              ONE MORE TIME AND I DONT CARE WHO YOU ARE OR HOW MANY PHDS YOU HAVE IN YOUR POCKET...RANDOM IS NOT MATH...ok..one more time..RANDOM IS NOT MATH...RANDOM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH Math..Terry..you are full of crap..every chart shows it is connected...thats right..every chart you can design, draw, develope will allways be the same..what is hot, what is cool...what is cold, what is suppose to show in this amount of time, etc, etc , etc,...BIG WHOOPPIE WOW WOW..

              A= Lx W

              Pi = 3.14 standard

              A2 + B2 = C2

              E = MC2

              This list can go a long ways...Now lets talk a little more about Random

               

              R= WHAT?...WELL lets work a little bit on that what ok

              1 digit return odd first position

              1 digit return odd second position

              1 digit return odd 3 position

              1 digit even return first position

              1 digit even return second position

              1 digit even return third position

              2 digit return even any position

              2 digit return odd any position

              any double return any position

              1 high one low return any position

              any 3 digit return

              same variables from midday to evening

              same variables from evening to midday

              same variables from midday to midday

              same variables from evening to evening

              same variables from the day before

              same variables for the day after

              these are just some of the variables that are FACE VALUE or you can see them if you look  a little,thats not counting all the variables that you cant see or havent found yet..and yes..all of them are running and you have to find some way to compensate for them...

               

              THE ONLY WAY TO SOLVE THE LOTTERY IS TO FIND EVERY SINGLE VARIBALE AND THEN FIND THE ORDER OF ARRANGEMENT IN WHICH THEY WILL APPEAR...that will allowyou to go to draw to draw to draw and win...like I said before...there are more people here at Lottery Post that knows more about RANDOM than any Mathematician on earth because this is what we study everyday.....1

              Thanks for the replys. People can call me crazy, it's alright, but I truly believe if a human being is involved, nothing is truly random.

                RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                mid-Ohio
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                Posted: August 21, 2011, 6:54 pm - IP Logged

                Lottery games don't have to be random, just unpredictable to a point that players can't scheme to profit more than it cost to play consistently.  Most lotteries have in place rules and payout amounts to prevent that happening just in case their games aren't truly random or when their jackpots exceed the amount it cost to play every combination.

                Such wasn't the case in the recently exposed Massachusetts game with its rundowns when the jackpot reached $2M.  That game is scheduled to be replaced or eliminated.

                 * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                   
                             Evil Looking       

                  Boney526's avatar - NjlpLogo
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                  Posted: August 21, 2011, 7:24 pm - IP Logged

                  Buying QPs has nothing to do with math..... Every combinations of Lottery numbers is just as likely to come up as any others... most Mathemtician's only advice is not to pick numbers that are all lower than 31, or are sequetial or any other type of shape on the Lottery's game board, etc. to minimize the chance of splitting the Jackpot if you do win.

                  A triple is just as likely to show as any other number..... straight.....  Obviously box combos show up more often than triples.... but any mathemetician could tell you that if they knew how the game was drawn.  In fact, just about everyone knows that I don't know why you'd assume someone who understands that past draws can't influence current ones wouldn't understand that.

                   

                  If you could get even a 10 percent edge on the lottery reliably, then online sportsbooks would go broke.  If you could do that, you'd be able to break a casino's bank at roulette....

                   

                  It just can't happen, in fact, thinking it can happen just causes you to play more, and makes the state more money, unless you happen to get lucky, and then confirmation and/or hindishgt bias takes over.  You know what happens when Casinos stick boards up displaying past history in roulette?  People think, "Hey there was just 8 odds, I've got to go bet on even! " And they only win about 18/38 spins, therefore the casino makes about 5.26% of the money bet, and so they just make MORE money by displaying past results, because people think that their systems will make them money.  But the past is irrelevant when you're throwing a ball around in the opposite direction of the wheel, and it eventually hits a random bump, causing it go to a random spot.

                    Boney526's avatar - NjlpLogo
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                    Posted: August 21, 2011, 7:25 pm - IP Logged

                    Buying QPs has nothing to do with math..... Every combinations of Lottery numbers is just as likely to come up as any others... most Mathemtician's only advice is not to pick numbers that are all lower than 31, or are sequetial or any other type of shape on the Lottery's game board, etc. to minimize the chance of splitting the Jackpot if you do win.

                    A triple is just as likely to show as any other number..... straight.....  Obviously box combos show up more often than triples.... but any mathemetician could tell you that if they knew how the game was drawn.  In fact, just about everyone knows that I don't know why you'd assume someone who understands that past draws can't influence current ones wouldn't understand that.

                     

                    If you could get even a 10 percent edge on the lottery reliably, then online sportsbooks would go broke.  If you could do that, you'd be able to break a casino's bank at roulette....

                     

                    It just can't happen, in fact, thinking it can happen just causes you to play more, and makes the state more money, unless you happen to get lucky, and then confirmation and/or hindishgt bias takes over.  You know what happens when Casinos stick boards up displaying past history in roulette?  People think, "Hey there was just 8 odds, I've got to go bet on even! " And they only win about 18/38 spins, therefore the casino makes about 5.26% of the money bet, and so they just make MORE money by displaying past results, because people think that their systems will make them money.  But the past is irrelevant when you're throwing a ball around in the opposite direction of the wheel, and it eventually hits a random bump, causing it go to a random spot.

                    I should correct myself.  It's not that it CAN'T happen.  It's that beating the lottery is just as likely (or rather, unlikely) by using QPs, or some type of system that uses past data.


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                      Posted: August 21, 2011, 7:40 pm - IP Logged

                      Boney526,

                      You deserve a medal for your last two posts!

                      CARBOB, joker17, LottoAce, lotterybraker,

                      When you think about all the uncertainties surrounding the drawings, things like fraud potential, possible RNG weaknesses, etc., etc., you really need to pull back and observe the situation from a more global perspective.  You need to reflect on one simple fact that most of us are aware of.  Namely, the overall percentage of PEOPLE BUYING QUICKPICK TICKETS very closely approximates the percentage of WINNERS HOLDING QUICKPICK TICKETS.

                      If what you believe were true TO ANY SIGNIFICANT DEGREE, don't you think these percentages would disagree?

                      BTW, I believe that the effects of the abovementioned uncertainties will, when and if they [rarely] occur, will be miniscule.

                      Your talents would be better spent lobbying to end computerized DRAWS!  As a Programmer, believe me, if the IT people at a lottery conspire to rip US off, they CAN, and in most cases, we will never know it!

                      --Jimmy4164


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                        Posted: August 21, 2011, 7:56 pm - IP Logged

                        P.S.

                        RJOh,

                        As is often [but not always] the case, I agree with your valid points made above at 6:54 PM!


                          United States
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                          Posted: August 21, 2011, 8:17 pm - IP Logged

                          Buying QPs has nothing to do with math..... Every combinations of Lottery numbers is just as likely to come up as any others... most Mathemtician's only advice is not to pick numbers that are all lower than 31, or are sequetial or any other type of shape on the Lottery's game board, etc. to minimize the chance of splitting the Jackpot if you do win.

                          A triple is just as likely to show as any other number..... straight.....  Obviously box combos show up more often than triples.... but any mathemetician could tell you that if they knew how the game was drawn.  In fact, just about everyone knows that I don't know why you'd assume someone who understands that past draws can't influence current ones wouldn't understand that.

                           

                          If you could get even a 10 percent edge on the lottery reliably, then online sportsbooks would go broke.  If you could do that, you'd be able to break a casino's bank at roulette....

                           

                          It just can't happen, in fact, thinking it can happen just causes you to play more, and makes the state more money, unless you happen to get lucky, and then confirmation and/or hindishgt bias takes over.  You know what happens when Casinos stick boards up displaying past history in roulette?  People think, "Hey there was just 8 odds, I've got to go bet on even! " And they only win about 18/38 spins, therefore the casino makes about 5.26% of the money bet, and so they just make MORE money by displaying past results, because people think that their systems will make them money.  But the past is irrelevant when you're throwing a ball around in the opposite direction of the wheel, and it eventually hits a random bump, causing it go to a random spot.

                          But the past is irrelevant when you're throwing a ball around in the opposite direction of the wheel, and it eventually hits a random bump, causing it go to a random spot.

                          Just because you can't understand how the past affects the future doesn't mean that concept is false. Below is an excerpt from the Koycerin wagering method.

                          I just wish people's egos would take a vacation for a little while. Some people think they know everything there is to know and can't possibly learn anyhting new. Just because it's written in a University textbook doesn't mean that information can't become obsolete in the future.

                          The info below is not the whole picture, but a segment I chose to show here, so don't criticize it without reading the whol booklet.

                           

                          Below is a simplified example of pattern verification. It doesn't work everytime, but it comes close. We know that 1x4=4 and 2x4=8 and 3x4=12 and 5x4=20, but wait, we left out one, 4x4, suppose we don't don't know the answer to 4x4. We do know that whatever the answer is, that it's more than 3x4 and less than 5x4. The answer must be between 13 and 19. Rather than just make a guess, we will average the difference so we will be close to what the real answer might be. Add the 13 to the 19 and we get 32. We added two numbers so we divided the answer by two for the average of...guess what....16...Did you just see what we just did?.....We found the answer to 4x4 without knowing what the answer was.

                           

                          In the above example, something else should've been discovered. Do you see how past results foretold future results? And how the correct "Pattern" discovered the problem for which we had no answer?

                           

                          The above was a simplified example, but Koycerin's RND occurence, pattern verification, direction of pattern, and betting accordingly is slightly more complicated, but acheivable with practice.

                           

                          There are professional gamblers who make a living in Vegas and other gambling facilities looking for RNDs to occur and bet accordingly.


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                            Posted: August 21, 2011, 8:31 pm - IP Logged

                            Boney526,

                            You deserve a medal for your last two posts!

                            CARBOB, joker17, LottoAce, lotterybraker,

                            When you think about all the uncertainties surrounding the drawings, things like fraud potential, possible RNG weaknesses, etc., etc., you really need to pull back and observe the situation from a more global perspective.  You need to reflect on one simple fact that most of us are aware of.  Namely, the overall percentage of PEOPLE BUYING QUICKPICK TICKETS very closely approximates the percentage of WINNERS HOLDING QUICKPICK TICKETS.

                            If what you believe were true TO ANY SIGNIFICANT DEGREE, don't you think these percentages would disagree?

                            BTW, I believe that the effects of the abovementioned uncertainties will, when and if they [rarely] occur, will be miniscule.

                            Your talents would be better spent lobbying to end computerized DRAWS!  As a Programmer, believe me, if the IT people at a lottery conspire to rip US off, they CAN, and in most cases, we will never know it!

                            --Jimmy4164

                            Namely, the overall percentage of PEOPLE BUYING QUICKPICK TICKETS very closely approximates the percentage of WINNERS HOLDING QUICKPICK TICKETS.

                             

                            I thought we already went over this with Cointoss and his unwillingness to concede he was wrong, despite my and other's efforts telling him how silly Coin was to even bring it up in the first place.

                            Ok, let's try this again, obviousy, the reason there are more QP winners is because more people BUY QPs.....Roughly 70%.....

                            I thought we went throught this already...

                              rdgrnr's avatar - walt
                              Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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                              Posted: August 21, 2011, 9:09 pm - IP Logged

                              Namely, the overall percentage of PEOPLE BUYING QUICKPICK TICKETS very closely approximates the percentage of WINNERS HOLDING QUICKPICK TICKETS.

                               

                              I thought we already went over this with Cointoss and his unwillingness to concede he was wrong, despite my and other's efforts telling him how silly Coin was to even bring it up in the first place.

                              Ok, let's try this again, obviousy, the reason there are more QP winners is because more people BUY QPs.....Roughly 70%.....

                              I thought we went throught this already...

                              If 70% of winning tickets are QP's because 70% of tickets sold are QP's and

                              30% of winning tickets are Player Picks because 30% of tickets sold are player picks,

                              where's the advantage of one over the other?

                               

                              They're both the same.

                               

                              Now if Player Picks accounted for 40% of the winning tickets and QP's 60% based on the same sales ratio (30% to 70%), you could say one method was better than the other. But they don't and therefore you can't.

                               

                              Playing your own numbers has the same winning percentage as Quick Picks if we go by the 70% in, 70% out - 30% in, 30% out standard.


                                                                           
                                                   
                                                                       

                               

                               

                               

                               

                                                                                                                                 

                              "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                                          --Edmund Burke

                               

                               

                                 
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