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What is a lottery system? What distinguishes a lottery system from guesses, dreams and quick picks?

Topic closed. 918 replies. Last post 6 years ago by mayhem.

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Kentucky
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Member #32652
February 14, 2006
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Posted: April 1, 2011, 8:01 pm - IP Logged

Where's the "proof?"

Posting scans of winning tickets proves nothing more than the fact that someone scanned a winning ticket.  If I posted a scan of a winning ticket and told you I used my super software to select the numbers, how much money would you be willing to send me for the software - $19.95, $39.95, $99.95, more?

"Posting scans of winning tickets proves nothing more than the fact that someone scanned a winning ticket."

Very good, now look at little closer and you'll notice "QP" or something similar is not on most of the winning tickets either and making them personal picks.

"If I posted a scan of a winning ticket and told you I used my super software to select the numbers, how much money would you be willing to send me for the software - $19.95, $39.95, $99.95, more?"

Whether you're talking about posting your purchased QPs or the RNG results you play "make believe" with as proof, it doesn't matter because you would be the first and only person soliciting a system on that thread. As much as I'm tempted not to tell you, if you did, you would break the LP rules and probably get banned.

    ameriken's avatar - 33ojew2
    Denver, Co
    United States
    Member #103046
    December 29, 2010
    546 Posts
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    Posted: April 1, 2011, 8:08 pm - IP Logged

     I doubt we'll ever really know one way or the other how successful systems are or aren't.

    LP members who post on the prediction board are picking and posting their numbers for fun but probably do as well as any average player who picks his own numbers.  So if you want to know how successful they are just check out their prediction statistics, they are probably as good of stats as you'll ever get.

    I'm very familiar with the prediction board, I embarass myself there on a daily basis  Confused

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      Kentucky
      United States
      Member #32652
      February 14, 2006
      7298 Posts
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      Posted: April 1, 2011, 8:27 pm - IP Logged

      Colorado has a new game, "Matchplay", a parimutuel 6/38 with a JP that starts at $100,000.

      A $2 ticket buys 3 lines: for the first line, you can make your own selection or a QP. However the 2nd and 3rd lines are only QP's.

      I find myself wanting to pick all 3 lines, because I win more frequently with my selected line than I do the QPs. And that leads me to wonder if that is why the Colorado Lottery will only allow QP's for those other 2 lines.

      Reminds me of 3 Line Lotto that's played in Kentucky.

      "Each play costs $2 and has 3 lines of numbers. For each play, mark 6 numbers (1 – 39) on your play slip, or use the quick pick option to let the computer randomly select your numbers. With each play you will receive your single line of selected or Quick Pick numbers and two additional lines, each with six Quick Pick numbers."

      MatchesPrize
      6Jackpot* $100,000+
      5$500
      4$20
      3$2

      and the combined prize table.

      MatchesPrize
      10+$2,000
      9$200
      8$25
      7$10
      6$5
      5$2

      Hopefully Jimmy will notice what the KY Lottery defines as Quick Picks but it will probably be ignored and we'll have to read some more useless information.

        time*treat's avatar - radar

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        2171 Posts
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        Posted: April 1, 2011, 8:30 pm - IP Logged

        I think I recall something about a jackpot and fortune cookies a few years ago.  Were there lottery cops involved?  As I recall someone or a group of people won a jackpot somewhere with fortune cookie numbers. 

        If you are saying there were lottery cops involved, what were they looking for?

        http://www.lotterypost.com/news/112702

        [W]hat were they looking for?

        No doubt, a way to keep that from happening again.

        In neo-conned Amerika, bank robs you.
        Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a govnoment agency.

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          Posted: April 1, 2011, 8:44 pm - IP Logged

          http://www.lotterypost.com/news/112702

          [W]hat were they looking for?

          No doubt, a way to keep that from happening again.

          Dead link you posted.

           

          Sounds as though you believe lotteries and lottery cops are stupider than I'd tend to think they are.  But I'd never thought before whether they are stupid or aren't.

            RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
            mid-Ohio
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            March 24, 2001
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            Posted: April 1, 2011, 9:24 pm - IP Logged

            Dead link you posted.

             

            Sounds as though you believe lotteries and lottery cops are stupider than I'd tend to think they are.  But I'd never thought before whether they are stupid or aren't.

            http://www.lotterypost.com/news/112702

            No doubt they were looking for the same things Indiana security was looking for a few years ago when one of their security person sent a couple of his buddies to a retailer to buy a roll of scratch-offs that had the million dollar grand prize.  It seem while checking out a claim for another winner, the security person got more information than he needed which included the list for another game that had the roll numbers of all its winners.  He checked to see which retailer received the roll with the grand prize and sent a couple of his buddies to buy the whole roll.  His buddies weren't agreeable about him getting the largest share and talked.

            PowerBall security investigation took them directly to the manufacturer of the fortune cookies.

             * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
               
                         Evil Looking       

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              Posted: April 1, 2011, 9:38 pm - IP Logged

              http://www.lotterypost.com/news/112702

              No doubt they were looking for the same things Indiana security was looking for a few years ago when one of their security person sent a couple of his buddies to a retailer to buy a roll of scratch-offs that had the million dollar grand prize.  It seem while checking out a claim for another winner, the security person got more information than he needed which included the list for another game that had the roll numbers of all its winners.  He checked to see which retailer received the roll with the grand prize and sent a couple of his buddies to buy the whole roll.  His buddies weren't agreeable about him getting the largest share and talked.

              PowerBall security investigation took them directly to the manufacturer of the fortune cookies.

              Reminds me of my Chinese Fire Drill system which I'll be posting here once I get the math and logic worked out.

                visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                light on my feet
                United States
                Member #356
                May 20, 2002
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                Posted: April 1, 2011, 11:12 pm - IP Logged

                the point i was making is that "you guys" claim you can alter the outcome thru personal effort,  and i demonstrated that isn't remotely true,  because you cannot change the win percentage demonstrated in those statistics.

                if "you guys" really had something,  those statistics would move in your favor.

                Just because 30% pick their own doesn't necessarily mean that they are all sitting at home with pen and paper everyday trying analyze the numbers and work out the next combinations to play. The percentage of people doing that could be very low and may not make a noticable difference in the winning percentages.

                I'm not saying that you're right or wrong, I'm just saying that that those 70/30 numbers don't really tell any kind of story other than how many buy QP's and how many don't, and I don't see how a conclusion can be made about system play can be made based on that figure.

                There are no studies done of system play that I am aware of, so making a conclusion one way or the other on that 70/30 may be a stretch.

                i understand.

                the point i was attempting to make using the 70/30 as an example is that "example" has been around quite awhile,  long enough to be changed by systems users,  and yet it remains consistently constant, which only suggests that systems are making ZERO headway.

                just so we are clear,  i realize the 70/30 is a percentage not only of purchases by whom,  but it also a percentage of who wins what. 

                and that figure never moves.

                it is every bit the indicator no one creates an edge,  and in fact it qualifies every effort thrown at it,  which means it's random

                let's be realistic in comparison to the thousands of systems players just at LP,  plus the level of lottery "intelligence" that really can't be surpassed outside of LP, and still.....no one moves that percentage.

                LP is ground zero for lottery system assault. 

                most everyone of the people i challenge on their "claims" have me by a long--------------------->shot in the I.Q. race

                brilliant mathematical / analytical minds,  and yet nothing.

                scanned winning tickets, sure.   proof of sustained consistentcy screaming repeatability.....nope

                doesn't that speak some common sense when we are discussing premises like the "70/30" ?    it sure does to people who aren't sold out to wishful thinking

                and remember what i said about a system being repeatable if it's 'legit",  and duplicated by others?

                neither of that happens,  and if it doesn't happen after the most brilliant throw their efforts at it daily,  then...

                take RL for example......what i asked him to do would have taken him  thousands of hours.  Green laugh

                even RL can't do it after that kind of effort (lol).

                  you see,  i don't mind being on the opposite ends of all this,  but make lying statements like the one above made by RL,  and expect to get raked over the coals about the "integrity" aspect of what you guys tell people you can do.

                it becomes pretty obvious that a person "can't" ........when an obviously intelligent person resorts to that.

                unfortunately,  in the holding up of my end of the bargain about being a system skeptic,  part of my job description is highlighting faux pas like RL's,  so others can measure claims vs real ability.

                integrity is every bit a part of claimed ability,  because only a man that has integrity  does what he claims he can do.

                if he can't.....he can't be trusted

                what "you people" don't realize is i am looking to qualify you. 

                it isn't my fault when you disqualify yourself

                true skeptics arent one sided tainted dweebs.  they are ambivalent,  and look for the qualification equally,  just as much as the info they are slicing open, when it ends up disqualifying itself.

                been "looking" for 9 years.

                still looking

                            "i am .........."meant to"       

                P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                         until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                  visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                  light on my feet
                  United States
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                  Posted: April 1, 2011, 11:26 pm - IP Logged

                  "scanned "winners" don't make a legit system."

                  QP, Auto pick, EZ pick or something similar would be clearly marked as such. They are legit winners picked by the players. Why don't you ask them if they used a system that fits your definition?

                  "you are right, no one "owes me" the right to prove anything"

                  Even if you said "no one is obligated", the rest of that statement still makes no sense.

                  "but if you are going to brag "you can"

                  Since nobody bragged "they could", I guess you're out of luck and makes the rest of your remarks meaningless.

                  "when someone crosses the line into arrogance land"

                  I'll bet you're very lonely in ignorance land.

                  stack,   maybe this is the point in the convo where i remind you (and everyone else) .....that  in the last thread where you and i had a little mano a mano,  and after i challenged you heads up.....

                         --------> your self picks vs my QP's <-------------

                  and you ran for the exits blurting excuses and screaming foul.

                  don't tell me you have memory loss (cuz LP has it all archived).

                  you of all people don't have enough in the tank concerning this issue

                  unless you have reconsidered my "heads up" challenge?

                  step up to the plate and be a man.   take me on so you can "prove" i am full it.

                  i am willing.  stay as long as the agreement takes.   right up until the curtains draw. 

                  truth is,  you refused then,  and you will excuse your way out another exit door.

                  i never do

                  you believe it,  don't you ?    youre the one that raised your arrogance quotient,  now back it up.

                              "i am .........."meant to"       

                  P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                           until further notice,  it's  france everyday

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                    Kentucky
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                    Posted: April 2, 2011, 1:21 am - IP Logged

                    stack,   maybe this is the point in the convo where i remind you (and everyone else) .....that  in the last thread where you and i had a little mano a mano,  and after i challenged you heads up.....

                           --------> your self picks vs my QP's <-------------

                    and you ran for the exits blurting excuses and screaming foul.

                    don't tell me you have memory loss (cuz LP has it all archived).

                    you of all people don't have enough in the tank concerning this issue

                    unless you have reconsidered my "heads up" challenge?

                    step up to the plate and be a man.   take me on so you can "prove" i am full it.

                    i am willing.  stay as long as the agreement takes.   right up until the curtains draw. 

                    truth is,  you refused then,  and you will excuse your way out another exit door.

                    i never do

                    you believe it,  don't you ?    youre the one that raised your arrogance quotient,  now back it up.

                    "your self picks vs my QP's"

                    I remember making a comment when you were babbling about the 70/30 ratio and showed you exactly what the PB website said. "About 70% to 80% of purchases are computer picks. About 70% to 80% of winners are computer picks."

                    It's still must be difficult for you grasp one simple definition PURCHASES. That ratio is based on the number of PURCHASED QPs to the number of PURCHASED player picks. It's really simple; you have to PURCHASE a ticket and that's the only way that ticket can be a WINNER.

                    I highlighted the words you should look up in the dictionary so you can join in a civil conversation.

                    My self picks, RJ's, Pat's and your RNG numbers were all irrelevant to the 70/30 ratio then and now because none of them were PURCHASED tickets so none of them could be WINNERS.

                    I also gave the odds of matching the bonus ball directly from the PB website "1 in 61.74" and from the MM website "1 in 75". Jimmy is our expert on "rate of return" and you might ask him to explain it to you.

                    I made a comment that a MM player could use the 46 combo 2 if 2 of 56 number wheel from LP's systems and cover all 46 bonus numbers. Coin Toss and I discussed the value of playing a wheel that cost $46 and only guaranteed a $2 or $3 return and we both agreed it wasn't a very good bet and I suggested it has a "SLIGHT EDGE" over PURCHASING 46 QPs.

                    Apparently you didn't understand what a "SLIGHT EDGE" meant or believed it was impossible to use all 46 bonus number on 46 combos and wanted a contest that would prove absolutely nothing for Rdge's discussion about the 70/30 ratio.

                    "don't tell me you have memory loss (cuz LP has it all archived)."

                    If you find it tell us what those useless contests proved. How much imaginary money did everybody lose? (bet it wasn't as much imaginary money the players from Jimmy's imaginary Challenge statistics lost) 

                    And while we're on the subject of memory, that thread was closed probably because of it no longer addressed the topic and all the silliness from and directed to you. Don't challenge me to any more useless imaginary money contests or bate me into any silly name calling contests either because I won't respond.

                    This topic is interesting to many LP members and I won't be one of the reasons for its lock down.


                      United States
                      Member #93947
                      July 10, 2010
                      2180 Posts
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                      Posted: April 2, 2011, 2:16 am - IP Logged

                      "your self picks vs my QP's"

                      I remember making a comment when you were babbling about the 70/30 ratio and showed you exactly what the PB website said. "About 70% to 80% of purchases are computer picks. About 70% to 80% of winners are computer picks."

                      It's still must be difficult for you grasp one simple definition PURCHASES. That ratio is based on the number of PURCHASED QPs to the number of PURCHASED player picks. It's really simple; you have to PURCHASE a ticket and that's the only way that ticket can be a WINNER.

                      I highlighted the words you should look up in the dictionary so you can join in a civil conversation.

                      My self picks, RJ's, Pat's and your RNG numbers were all irrelevant to the 70/30 ratio then and now because none of them were PURCHASED tickets so none of them could be WINNERS.

                      I also gave the odds of matching the bonus ball directly from the PB website "1 in 61.74" and from the MM website "1 in 75". Jimmy is our expert on "rate of return" and you might ask him to explain it to you.

                      I made a comment that a MM player could use the 46 combo 2 if 2 of 56 number wheel from LP's systems and cover all 46 bonus numbers. Coin Toss and I discussed the value of playing a wheel that cost $46 and only guaranteed a $2 or $3 return and we both agreed it wasn't a very good bet and I suggested it has a "SLIGHT EDGE" over PURCHASING 46 QPs.

                      Apparently you didn't understand what a "SLIGHT EDGE" meant or believed it was impossible to use all 46 bonus number on 46 combos and wanted a contest that would prove absolutely nothing for Rdge's discussion about the 70/30 ratio.

                      "don't tell me you have memory loss (cuz LP has it all archived)."

                      If you find it tell us what those useless contests proved. How much imaginary money did everybody lose? (bet it wasn't as much imaginary money the players from Jimmy's imaginary Challenge statistics lost) 

                      And while we're on the subject of memory, that thread was closed probably because of it no longer addressed the topic and all the silliness from and directed to you. Don't challenge me to any more useless imaginary money contests or bate me into any silly name calling contests either because I won't respond.

                      This topic is interesting to many LP members and I won't be one of the reasons for its lock down.

                      Stack47,

                      When you say, "I remember making a comment when you were babbling about the 70/30 ratio and showed you exactly what the PB website said. 'About 70% to 80% of purchases are computer picks. About 70% to 80% of winners are computer picks.' "

                      after VisionDude has said, "just so we are clear,  i realize the 70/30 is a percentage not only of purchases by whom,  but it also a percentage of who wins what."

                      ...I can't help but ask why you feel the need to be so strident with him on the issue?

                      --Jimmy4164


                        United States
                        Member #93947
                        July 10, 2010
                        2180 Posts
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                        Posted: April 2, 2011, 2:31 am - IP Logged

                        "Posting scans of winning tickets proves nothing more than the fact that someone scanned a winning ticket."

                        Very good, now look at little closer and you'll notice "QP" or something similar is not on most of the winning tickets either and making them personal picks.

                        "If I posted a scan of a winning ticket and told you I used my super software to select the numbers, how much money would you be willing to send me for the software - $19.95, $39.95, $99.95, more?"

                        Whether you're talking about posting your purchased QPs or the RNG results you play "make believe" with as proof, it doesn't matter because you would be the first and only person soliciting a system on that thread. As much as I'm tempted not to tell you, if you did, you would break the LP rules and probably get banned.

                        "Whether you're talking about posting your purchased QPs or the RNG results you play 'make believe' with as proof, it doesn't matter because you would be the first and only person soliciting a system on that thread. As much as I'm tempted not to tell you, if you did, you would break the LP rules and probably get banned."

                        Having very little past experience with it, I'm finding the task of trying to make a point with people who have difficulty thinking in the abstract or in hypothetical terms, very frustrating.  I know you've got it in you; just try a little harder.

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                          United States
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                          Posted: April 2, 2011, 6:31 am - IP Logged

                          I'm very familiar with the prediction board, I embarass myself there on a daily basis  Confused

                          Nice feature, that prediction board.  Judging from the amount of traffic daily I'd call it an inspiration on the part of the site owners, along with the statistics histories for the predictors and the top predictors page.  It provides a way of connecting members posting on the forums with what and how they're actually doing on the prediction level.

                          But there's plenty of embarrassment to go around if that's how it translates after the draws.

                          That board is one of my favorite features about LP.

                            RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

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                            Posted: April 2, 2011, 7:15 am - IP Logged

                            Stack

                            I was just updating my databases and while at MO lottery home page this caught my eye

                            Columbia Man Collects $5,000 in 'MONOPOLY' Money

                            I guess things ar getten perty bad when they start paying in monopoly money.  Maybe he

                            can buy a hotel with his winnings.  LMAO

                            RL


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                              Posted: April 2, 2011, 7:24 am - IP Logged

                              Stack

                              I was just updating my databases and while at MO lottery home page this caught my eye

                              Columbia Man Collects $5,000 in 'MONOPOLY' Money

                              I guess things ar getten perty bad when they start paying in monopoly money.  Maybe he

                              can buy a hotel with his winnings.  LMAO

                              RL


                              RL:  The prediction page here pays in monopoly money, but at least the tickets are purchased with the same currency.  Not many people posting predictions are winning enough to purchase any hotels, so they haven't felt the need to offer any as prizes, I suppose.

                                 
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