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# What is a lottery system? What distinguishes a lottery system from guesses, dreams and quick picks?

Topic closed. 918 replies. Last post 6 years ago by mayhem.

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Indiana
United States
Member #48725
January 7, 2007
1955 Posts
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 Posted: April 14, 2011, 5:45 pm - IP Logged

Guru,

Sorry, I was off doing other things when you posted back. I can see your point but.....

The hopper will have 10 sets of three balls before you remove the first one....(10*3)=30

Then it will have 9 sets of three plus one set of 2.......(9*3) + 2=29

Then it could contain......(8*3) + (2*2).........or (9*3)  + 1=28

You have an interesting theory and if it works for you, that's all that matters.

I just don't see how increasing the odds against you is of any use.

Need to work on super secret lottery system.

Sorry, I just saw your post, I didn't know the Pick 3/30 game you were referring to was still a game where there were 3 separate pools. I didn't read a few posts and was lost. lol

But it does kind of give me an idea for how I could use combos from Pick 3 or Pick 4 by perhaps converting them into what would be considered a "same pool equivalent" set. That way I could still use my system. There would just be an additional step or two.

Maybe the rules of the conversion could be:

1. The FIRST digit in the combo will ALWAYS have a "same pool equivalent" number between 1 and 10. The digits and their corresponding "same pool equivalent" would be as follows:

0 = 1

1 = 2

2 = 3

3 = 4

4 = 5

5 = 6

6 = 7

7 = 8

8 = 9

9 = 10

2. The SECOND digit in the combo will ALWAYS have a "same pool equivalent" number between 11 and 20. The digits and their corresponding "same pool equivalent" would be as follows:

0 = 11

1 = 12

2 = 13

3 = 14

4 = 15

5 = 16

6 = 17

7 = 18

8 = 19

9 = 20

2. The THIRD digit in the combo will ALWAYS have a "same pool equivalent" number between 21 and 30. The digits and their corresponding "same pool equivalent" would be as follows:

0 = 21

1 = 22

2 = 23

3 = 24

4 = 25

5 = 26

6 = 27

7 = 28

8 = 29

9 = 30

Examples(converting the last 10 Hoosier Lottery Pick 3 combos to their same pool equivalent set):

 Pick 3 Combo Same Pool Equivalent Set 880 09 19 21 891 09 20 22 089 01 19 30 604 07 11 25 951 10 16 22 895 09 20 26 053 01 16 24 805 09 11 26 657 07 16 28 506 06 11 27

Now because the system would be converting from something that is numerically unsorted to a numerically sorted equivalent, the system will best be used for playing box, not straight. Maybe this weekend I can make a version of my system for Pick 3 that throws in this conversion.

Gonna win.

Kentucky
United States
Member #32652
February 14, 2006
7325 Posts
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 Posted: April 14, 2011, 6:28 pm - IP Logged

i like that....."someone else can,  but not me"

When it comes to lottery systems, "someone else can, but not me" is perfectly legal, even though it may be the same system. A system may take values which may or may not betweakable. A player might have better discretion than the other, or maybe the other player just puts in values carelessly hoping to win big.

or.......you can always  "prove it" by demonstrating they refuse to throw their own \$400 at a "sure thing"

Never going to happen. Nothing is a sure thing when it comes to gambling, especially the lottery, and especially jackpot games. I may or may not share my system in the future, but if I do, I'm certainly not going to tell others that if they use my sytem that winning a jackpot is a sure thing. The odds are very big and player discretion plays a big role. Which by the way, is perfectly fine. Jackpot games have extremely vast odds, but they pay millions, so to have expectancy that a system user do some research and become familiar with it and learn how to use it effectively is perfectly reasonable. I'm certainly not going to expect someone who came up with a sytem, which they put years of work into, to hand me some magic wand that hits a jackpot every so often without ANY work on my part. That would not only be considered immoral, but also lazy.

"When it comes to lottery systems, "someone else can, but not me" is perfectly legal, even though it may be the same system."

What gets me, anyone can click on Pick 5 wheels, check it out, and understand there are a number of possibilities with that wheel or any system using all the numbers. I don't know the betting styles of very many LP members and certainly not all the lottery players, but it should be a given that someone might be interested.

Maybe that's what Bobby means when he suggested looking at pick-3 games as 3/30 lotto. There are pick-3 wheels where you enter all ten digits from most favored to least favored and if someone had a system for selecting the order the digits are place into the wheel, they could hit every time a double wasn't drawn.

Seeing the possibilities and and converting them into systems are two different things and it's just something the "give me 2 QPs" players can't or won't try to understand.

mid-Ohio
United States
Member #9
March 24, 2001
19831 Posts
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 Posted: April 14, 2011, 6:34 pm - IP Logged

Sorry, I just saw your post, I didn't know the Pick 3/30 game you were referring to was still a game where there were 3 separate pools. I didn't read a few posts and was lost. lol

But it does kind of give me an idea for how I could use combos from Pick 3 or Pick 4 by perhaps converting them into what would be considered a "same pool equivalent" set. That way I could still use my system. There would just be an additional step or two.

Maybe the rules of the conversion could be:

1. The FIRST digit in the combo will ALWAYS have a "same pool equivalent" number between 1 and 10. The digits and their corresponding "same pool equivalent" would be as follows:

0 = 1

1 = 2

2 = 3

3 = 4

4 = 5

5 = 6

6 = 7

7 = 8

8 = 9

9 = 10

2. The SECOND digit in the combo will ALWAYS have a "same pool equivalent" number between 11 and 20. The digits and their corresponding "same pool equivalent" would be as follows:

0 = 11

1 = 12

2 = 13

3 = 14

4 = 15

5 = 16

6 = 17

7 = 18

8 = 19

9 = 20

2. The THIRD digit in the combo will ALWAYS have a "same pool equivalent" number between 21 and 30. The digits and their corresponding "same pool equivalent" would be as follows:

0 = 21

1 = 22

2 = 23

3 = 24

4 = 25

5 = 26

6 = 27

7 = 28

8 = 29

9 = 30

Examples(converting the last 10 Hoosier Lottery Pick 3 combos to their same pool equivalent set):

 Pick 3 Combo Same Pool Equivalent Set 880 09 19 21 891 09 20 22 089 01 19 30 604 07 11 25 951 10 16 22 895 09 20 26 053 01 16 24 805 09 11 26 657 07 16 28 506 06 11 27

Now because the system would be converting from something that is numerically unsorted to a numerically sorted equivalent, the system will best be used for playing box, not straight. Maybe this weekend I can make a version of my system for Pick 3 that throws in this conversion.

I tried that once with my system and it really doesn't lend itself to boxed combinations because 01 19 30 will only convert back to 089 and not 098,809,890,908 or 980.  If regular pick3 combinations are converted before stored in a data file then you would need a special complex converting routine when you were searching for box hits.

I found just storing 089 as the three number combination 0 8 9 and searching for a match3 was an easier way to search for a box hit.  However I ran into other problems because combinations in my system are stored in numerical order and numbers showing up more than once in a combination are considered an error.  The problems I ran into convinced me it was easier to just write a different program for pick3 and pick4 games if I wanted to keep some of the unique routines I wrote for pick5 and pick6 games with or without a bonus number.  Programs that try to do everything end up doing less.

* you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket *

United States
Member #93947
July 10, 2010
2180 Posts
Offline
 Posted: April 14, 2011, 6:56 pm - IP Logged

Sorry, I just saw your post, I didn't know the Pick 3/30 game you were referring to was still a game where there were 3 separate pools. I didn't read a few posts and was lost. lol

But it does kind of give me an idea for how I could use combos from Pick 3 or Pick 4 by perhaps converting them into what would be considered a "same pool equivalent" set. That way I could still use my system. There would just be an additional step or two.

Maybe the rules of the conversion could be:

1. The FIRST digit in the combo will ALWAYS have a "same pool equivalent" number between 1 and 10. The digits and their corresponding "same pool equivalent" would be as follows:

0 = 1

1 = 2

2 = 3

3 = 4

4 = 5

5 = 6

6 = 7

7 = 8

8 = 9

9 = 10

2. The SECOND digit in the combo will ALWAYS have a "same pool equivalent" number between 11 and 20. The digits and their corresponding "same pool equivalent" would be as follows:

0 = 11

1 = 12

2 = 13

3 = 14

4 = 15

5 = 16

6 = 17

7 = 18

8 = 19

9 = 20

2. The THIRD digit in the combo will ALWAYS have a "same pool equivalent" number between 21 and 30. The digits and their corresponding "same pool equivalent" would be as follows:

0 = 21

1 = 22

2 = 23

3 = 24

4 = 25

5 = 26

6 = 27

7 = 28

8 = 29

9 = 30

Examples(converting the last 10 Hoosier Lottery Pick 3 combos to their same pool equivalent set):

 Pick 3 Combo Same Pool Equivalent Set 880 09 19 21 891 09 20 22 089 01 19 30 604 07 11 25 951 10 16 22 895 09 20 26 053 01 16 24 805 09 11 26 657 07 16 28 506 06 11 27

Now because the system would be converting from something that is numerically unsorted to a numerically sorted equivalent, the system will best be used for playing box, not straight. Maybe this weekend I can make a version of my system for Pick 3 that throws in this conversion.

Guru101,

I like your original motivation better.  In the [000-999] games the order IS significant AND the 3 separate machines involved allow [0-9] to repeat up to 3 times.  Your 3/30 game will result in precisely the same odds as the other if you set it up as follows:

-- In your machine place 3 zeros, 3 ones, , , , , , , , and 3 nines.

-- After EACH of the first 2 Draws, place the balls drawn back into the machine.

This way, the ODDS in your game will be:

(3/30) * (3/30) * (3/30) == 27/27000 == 1:1000

--Jimmy4164

Indiana
United States
Member #48725
January 7, 2007
1955 Posts
Offline
 Posted: April 14, 2011, 7:14 pm - IP Logged

I tried that once with my system and it really doesn't lend itself to boxed combinations because 01 19 30 will only convert back to 089 and not 098,809,890,908 or 980.  If regular pick3 combinations are converted before stored in a data file then you would need a special complex converting routine when you were searching for box hits.

I found just storing 089 as the three number combination 0 8 9 and searching for a match3 was an easier way to search for a box hit.  However I ran into other problems because combinations in my system are stored in numerical order and numbers showing up more than once in a combination are considered an error.  The problems I ran into convinced me it was easier to just write a different program for pick3 and pick4 games if I wanted to keep some of the unique routines I wrote for pick5 and pick6 games with or without a bonus number.  Programs that try to do everything end up doing less.

"I tried that once with my system and it really doesn't lend itself to boxed combinations because 01 19 30 will only convert back to 089 and not 098,809,890,908 or 980."

If the program picks a set like "01 19 30" which converts to 089, I can be ok with that since I will always play the numbers as box. Even if 908 comes out, I will win \$80, or \$160 if there's a double.

"If regular pick3 combinations are converted before stored in a data file then you would need a special complex converting routine when you were searching for box hits."

Since we are looking for box hits, before checking to see if a combo is a box hit, we just need to take the right side and make sure it's in numerical order, and then if the combos match exactly, then that was a box hit. So to check if 569 is a box hit to 417, we would first sort it to 147, do the comparison, and find out that it's not. We would sort 659 to 569, do the comparison, and find out that it is because both numbers are exactly the same.

Gonna win.

Indiana
United States
Member #48725
January 7, 2007
1955 Posts
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 Posted: April 14, 2011, 7:44 pm - IP Logged

Guru101,

I like your original motivation better.  In the [000-999] games the order IS significant AND the 3 separate machines involved allow [0-9] to repeat up to 3 times.  Your 3/30 game will result in precisely the same odds as the other if you set it up as follows:

-- In your machine place 3 zeros, 3 ones, , , , , , , , and 3 nines.

-- After EACH of the first 2 Draws, place the balls drawn back into the machine.

This way, the ODDS in your game will be:

(3/30) * (3/30) * (3/30) == 27/27000 == 1:1000

--Jimmy4164

Jimmy, order would only be important if I was looking for straight hits. If I add the conversion mechanism to my system in order to use it with Pick 3(and maybe later Pick 4) and it produced very good results as far as box hits go, then I'm staying with it, I won't worry about straight hits. The odds of hitting a straight is 1:1000, whereas box hit odds are 1:167(\$80), 1:333 for doubles(\$160). These odds are BEFORE I pass the combo through my filters, so the potential odds could be a lot better. I just have to wait and see though. The only way for me to know is to test it out.

Gonna win.

mid-Ohio
United States
Member #9
March 24, 2001
19831 Posts
Offline
 Posted: April 14, 2011, 9:05 pm - IP Logged

"I tried that once with my system and it really doesn't lend itself to boxed combinations because 01 19 30 will only convert back to 089 and not 098,809,890,908 or 980."

If the program picks a set like "01 19 30" which converts to 089, I can be ok with that since I will always play the numbers as box. Even if 908 comes out, I will win \$80, or \$160 if there's a double.

"If regular pick3 combinations are converted before stored in a data file then you would need a special complex converting routine when you were searching for box hits."

Since we are looking for box hits, before checking to see if a combo is a box hit, we just need to take the right side and make sure it's in numerical order, and then if the combos match exactly, then that was a box hit. So to check if 569 is a box hit to 417, we would first sort it to 147, do the comparison, and find out that it's not. We would sort 659 to 569, do the comparison, and find out that it is because both numbers are exactly the same.

If the program picks a set like "01 19 30" which converts to 089, I can be ok with that since I will always play the numbers as box. Even if 908 comes out, I will win \$80, or \$160 if there's a double.

I was thinking more along the line of using the data for research.  If you're saying that 089, 098, 809, 890, 908 and 980 will all be sorted and stored as 01 19 30, then you are limiting yourself to just keeping records for the 220 box combinations rather all 1000 possible combination and you'll have no way of telling if a combination has ever hit straight.

* you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket *

Indiana
United States
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January 7, 2007
1955 Posts
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 Posted: April 14, 2011, 9:12 pm - IP Logged

If the program picks a set like "01 19 30" which converts to 089, I can be ok with that since I will always play the numbers as box. Even if 908 comes out, I will win \$80, or \$160 if there's a double.

I was thinking more along the line of using the data for research.  If you're saying that 089, 098, 809, 890, 908 and 980 will all be sorted and stored as 01 19 30, then you are limiting yourself to just keeping records for the 220 box combinations rather all 1000 possible combination and you'll have no way of telling if a combination has ever hit straight.

That's alright. I'm only going to use it for box. I don't plan on storing the game's history in the converted form. I'm going to store it in its original form, unsorted. All numerical sorting and comparisons are going to be done within the program.

Gonna win.

mid-Ohio
United States
Member #9
March 24, 2001
19831 Posts
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 Posted: April 14, 2011, 9:35 pm - IP Logged

That's alright. I'm only going to use it for box. I don't plan on storing the game's history in the converted form. I'm going to store it in its original form, unsorted. All numerical sorting and comparisons are going to be done within the program.

Good luck, you've got your work cut out for you trying to use a program designed for pick5/6 and jackpot games with pick3 games.  I know pick3 players have PM me in the past asking if my program could develop the same information for their Pick3 games.  If they see your post, some of them will probably be interested in your results.

* you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket *

Indiana
United States
Member #48725
January 7, 2007
1955 Posts
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 Posted: April 14, 2011, 10:04 pm - IP Logged

Good luck, you've got your work cut out for you trying to use a program designed for pick5/6 and jackpot games with pick3 games.  I know pick3 players have PM me in the past asking if my program could develop the same information for their Pick3 games.  If they see your post, some of them will probably be interested in your results.

Thanks. I'm gonna try it out. If it doesn't do so good, I can always stop playing those games. Now that I think about it, I will need a history file in the converted format so I can figure out what values to use in the filters. I'll just print it out and do the math on paper.

Gonna win.

Denver, Co
United States
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December 29, 2010
546 Posts
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 Posted: April 14, 2011, 10:39 pm - IP Logged

After reading this, I decided to see for myself what would happen with \$25/day toward a Cash 5 game using random numbers, and \$25/day using my own system picks.

After 3 days:

Random: \$75 spent, \$12 won

System:  \$75 spent, \$38 won

I think the advantage system play may have over random play, is in system play there is the tendency to play groups of numbers with similar combinations, so when you hit, you don't just get one hit but several. Of course, 3 days is not enough to be conclusive, so I intend to continue this for a while just to find out for my ownself whether or not I'm wasting my time with system play.

So, after a \$475 simulation and comparison:

Random: \$129 won

System:  \$194 won

And I'm still learning this system, I do expect I'll get better with my inputs. So far, after 14 days comparing, I am still convinced I am using a good system and that I should not be buying quickpicks.

light on my feet
United States
Member #356
May 20, 2002
2744 Posts
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 Posted: April 15, 2011, 2:17 am - IP Logged

So REALLY it would be a system versus a system?

I don't see how that solves anything.

But good luck trying to convince someone you're actually doing the quick pick routine.

nope,  and the truth about you is you know it isn't,  and now you are backpeddling with semantics.

mark that another merry-go-round in the excuse dept.

if YOU pick the RNG,  it can't be fixed.

it's pathetic how you guys feign bravado,  then when i strut out a straight up integrity laden test,  that you can agree to pre drawing, out come the excuses.

go ahead garyo,  since you thought it was a "good idea",  step up.

you can steer it in the right direction that screams fairness out of the gate.

well ?

"i am .........."meant to"

P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

until further notice,  it's  france everyday

Dallas, Texas
United States
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May 2, 2004
1739 Posts
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 Posted: April 15, 2011, 9:19 am - IP Logged

nope,  and the truth about you is you know it isn't,  and now you are backpeddling with semantics.

mark that another merry-go-round in the excuse dept.

if YOU pick the RNG,  it can't be fixed.

it's pathetic how you guys feign bravado,  then when i strut out a straight up integrity laden test,  that you can agree to pre drawing, out come the excuses.

go ahead garyo,  since you thought it was a "good idea",  step up.

you can steer it in the right direction that screams fairness out of the gate.

well ?

I'd give it some thought if you'd agree to post Quick Pick tickets. That's the only way I'd even consider it Quick Picks vs System.

You can call it what you like but it's not a Quick Pick unless it has 'QP' at the end of the line.

And you still owe Stack a response.

Indiana
United States
Member #48725
January 7, 2007
1955 Posts
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 Posted: April 15, 2011, 9:45 am - IP Logged

I'd give it some thought if you'd agree to post Quick Pick tickets. That's the only way I'd even consider it Quick Picks vs System.

You can call it what you like but it's not a Quick Pick unless it has 'QP' at the end of the line.

And you still owe Stack a response.

Let the terminal pick the numbers. That way we know for sure that it's a QP if you post the ticket. The ticket will say "QP" at the end of the line. Even if we agreed on an RNG such as Random.org, we wouldn't know if the tickets you post are really from that RNG, or numbers from your own system.

Gonna win.

Kentucky
United States
Member #32652
February 14, 2006
7325 Posts
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 Posted: April 15, 2011, 11:46 am - IP Logged

I'd give it some thought if you'd agree to post Quick Pick tickets. That's the only way I'd even consider it Quick Picks vs System.

You can call it what you like but it's not a Quick Pick unless it has 'QP' at the end of the line.

And you still owe Stack a response.

System play is based on how much the player is planning to wager so players using a system with 20 combos have no intentions of purchasing another 20 QPs for comparison. They can rightfully say a 40 combo system should outperform a 20 combo system. From a systems players perception it's a choice between buying 20 SPs or 20 QPs; there is no both.

VD has always maintained any old RNG can be used for comparison ignoring the fact system players are choosing between actually playing their system picks or QPs. The only true test must be purchased QPs versus the system play.

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