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What is a lottery system? What distinguishes a lottery system from guesses, dreams and quick picks?

Topic closed. 918 replies. Last post 6 years ago by mayhem.

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Guru101's avatar - rw6jhh
Indiana
United States
Member #48725
January 7, 2007
1955 Posts
Offline
Posted: April 14, 2011, 5:45 pm - IP Logged

Guru,

Sorry, I was off doing other things when you posted back. I can see your point but.....

The hopper will have 10 sets of three balls before you remove the first one....(10*3)=30

Then it will have 9 sets of three plus one set of 2.......(9*3) + 2=29

Then it could contain......(8*3) + (2*2).........or (9*3)  + 1=28

You have an interesting theory and if it works for you, that's all that matters.

I just don't see how increasing the odds against you is of any use.

Need to work on super secret lottery system. Wink

Sorry, I just saw your post, I didn't know the Pick 3/30 game you were referring to was still a game where there were 3 separate pools. I didn't read a few posts and was lost. lol

But it does kind of give me an idea for how I could use combos from Pick 3 or Pick 4 by perhaps converting them into what would be considered a "same pool equivalent" set. That way I could still use my system. There would just be an additional step or two.

Maybe the rules of the conversion could be:

1. The FIRST digit in the combo will ALWAYS have a "same pool equivalent" number between 1 and 10. The digits and their corresponding "same pool equivalent" would be as follows:

0 = 1

1 = 2

2 = 3

3 = 4

4 = 5

5 = 6

6 = 7

7 = 8

8 = 9

9 = 10

2. The SECOND digit in the combo will ALWAYS have a "same pool equivalent" number between 11 and 20. The digits and their corresponding "same pool equivalent" would be as follows:

0 = 11

1 = 12

2 = 13

3 = 14

4 = 15

5 = 16

6 = 17

7 = 18

8 = 19

9 = 20

2. The THIRD digit in the combo will ALWAYS have a "same pool equivalent" number between 21 and 30. The digits and their corresponding "same pool equivalent" would be as follows:

0 = 21

1 = 22

2 = 23

3 = 24

4 = 25

5 = 26

6 = 27

7 = 28

8 = 29

9 = 30

Examples(converting the last 10 Hoosier Lottery Pick 3 combos to their same pool equivalent set):

Pick 3 ComboSame Pool Equivalent Set
88009 19 21
89109 20 22
08901 19 30
60407 11 25
95110 16 22
89509 20 26
05301 16 24
80509 11 26
65707 16 28
50606 11 27

 

Now because the system would be converting from something that is numerically unsorted to a numerically sorted equivalent, the system will best be used for playing box, not straight. Maybe this weekend I can make a version of my system for Pick 3 that throws in this conversion.Smile

Gonna win.Big Smile

    Avatar
    Kentucky
    United States
    Member #32652
    February 14, 2006
    7325 Posts
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    Posted: April 14, 2011, 6:28 pm - IP Logged

    i like that....."someone else can,  but not me" 

    When it comes to lottery systems, "someone else can, but not me" is perfectly legal, even though it may be the same system. A system may take values which may or may not betweakable. A player might have better discretion than the other, or maybe the other player just puts in values carelessly hoping to win big.

     or.......you can always  "prove it" by demonstrating they refuse to throw their own $400 at a "sure thing"


    Never going to happen. Nothing is a sure thing when it comes to gambling, especially the lottery, and especially jackpot games. I may or may not share my system in the future, but if I do, I'm certainly not going to tell others that if they use my sytem that winning a jackpot is a sure thing. The odds are very big and player discretion plays a big role. Which by the way, is perfectly fine. Jackpot games have extremely vast odds, but they pay millions, so to have expectancy that a system user do some research and become familiar with it and learn how to use it effectively is perfectly reasonable. I'm certainly not going to expect someone who came up with a sytem, which they put years of work into, to hand me some magic wand that hits a jackpot every so often without ANY work on my part. That would not only be considered immoral, but also lazy.

    "When it comes to lottery systems, "someone else can, but not me" is perfectly legal, even though it may be the same system."

    What gets me, anyone can click on Pick 5 wheels, check it out, and understand there are a number of possibilities with that wheel or any system using all the numbers. I don't know the betting styles of very many LP members and certainly not all the lottery players, but it should be a given that someone might be interested.

    Maybe that's what Bobby means when he suggested looking at pick-3 games as 3/30 lotto. There are pick-3 wheels where you enter all ten digits from most favored to least favored and if someone had a system for selecting the order the digits are place into the wheel, they could hit every time a double wasn't drawn.

    Seeing the possibilities and and converting them into systems are two different things and it's just something the "give me 2 QPs" players can't or won't try to understand.

      RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
      mid-Ohio
      United States
      Member #9
      March 24, 2001
      19831 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: April 14, 2011, 6:34 pm - IP Logged

      Sorry, I just saw your post, I didn't know the Pick 3/30 game you were referring to was still a game where there were 3 separate pools. I didn't read a few posts and was lost. lol

      But it does kind of give me an idea for how I could use combos from Pick 3 or Pick 4 by perhaps converting them into what would be considered a "same pool equivalent" set. That way I could still use my system. There would just be an additional step or two.

      Maybe the rules of the conversion could be:

      1. The FIRST digit in the combo will ALWAYS have a "same pool equivalent" number between 1 and 10. The digits and their corresponding "same pool equivalent" would be as follows:

      0 = 1

      1 = 2

      2 = 3

      3 = 4

      4 = 5

      5 = 6

      6 = 7

      7 = 8

      8 = 9

      9 = 10

      2. The SECOND digit in the combo will ALWAYS have a "same pool equivalent" number between 11 and 20. The digits and their corresponding "same pool equivalent" would be as follows:

      0 = 11

      1 = 12

      2 = 13

      3 = 14

      4 = 15

      5 = 16

      6 = 17

      7 = 18

      8 = 19

      9 = 20

      2. The THIRD digit in the combo will ALWAYS have a "same pool equivalent" number between 21 and 30. The digits and their corresponding "same pool equivalent" would be as follows:

      0 = 21

      1 = 22

      2 = 23

      3 = 24

      4 = 25

      5 = 26

      6 = 27

      7 = 28

      8 = 29

      9 = 30

      Examples(converting the last 10 Hoosier Lottery Pick 3 combos to their same pool equivalent set):

      Pick 3 ComboSame Pool Equivalent Set
      88009 19 21
      89109 20 22
      08901 19 30
      60407 11 25
      95110 16 22
      89509 20 26
      05301 16 24
      80509 11 26
      65707 16 28
      50606 11 27

       

      Now because the system would be converting from something that is numerically unsorted to a numerically sorted equivalent, the system will best be used for playing box, not straight. Maybe this weekend I can make a version of my system for Pick 3 that throws in this conversion.Smile

      I tried that once with my system and it really doesn't lend itself to boxed combinations because 01 19 30 will only convert back to 089 and not 098,809,890,908 or 980.  If regular pick3 combinations are converted before stored in a data file then you would need a special complex converting routine when you were searching for box hits. 

      I found just storing 089 as the three number combination 0 8 9 and searching for a match3 was an easier way to search for a box hit.  However I ran into other problems because combinations in my system are stored in numerical order and numbers showing up more than once in a combination are considered an error.  The problems I ran into convinced me it was easier to just write a different program for pick3 and pick4 games if I wanted to keep some of the unique routines I wrote for pick5 and pick6 games with or without a bonus number.  Programs that try to do everything end up doing less.

       * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
         
                   Evil Looking       


        United States
        Member #93947
        July 10, 2010
        2180 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: April 14, 2011, 6:56 pm - IP Logged

        Sorry, I just saw your post, I didn't know the Pick 3/30 game you were referring to was still a game where there were 3 separate pools. I didn't read a few posts and was lost. lol

        But it does kind of give me an idea for how I could use combos from Pick 3 or Pick 4 by perhaps converting them into what would be considered a "same pool equivalent" set. That way I could still use my system. There would just be an additional step or two.

        Maybe the rules of the conversion could be:

        1. The FIRST digit in the combo will ALWAYS have a "same pool equivalent" number between 1 and 10. The digits and their corresponding "same pool equivalent" would be as follows:

        0 = 1

        1 = 2

        2 = 3

        3 = 4

        4 = 5

        5 = 6

        6 = 7

        7 = 8

        8 = 9

        9 = 10

        2. The SECOND digit in the combo will ALWAYS have a "same pool equivalent" number between 11 and 20. The digits and their corresponding "same pool equivalent" would be as follows:

        0 = 11

        1 = 12

        2 = 13

        3 = 14

        4 = 15

        5 = 16

        6 = 17

        7 = 18

        8 = 19

        9 = 20

        2. The THIRD digit in the combo will ALWAYS have a "same pool equivalent" number between 21 and 30. The digits and their corresponding "same pool equivalent" would be as follows:

        0 = 21

        1 = 22

        2 = 23

        3 = 24

        4 = 25

        5 = 26

        6 = 27

        7 = 28

        8 = 29

        9 = 30

        Examples(converting the last 10 Hoosier Lottery Pick 3 combos to their same pool equivalent set):

        Pick 3 ComboSame Pool Equivalent Set
        88009 19 21
        89109 20 22
        08901 19 30
        60407 11 25
        95110 16 22
        89509 20 26
        05301 16 24
        80509 11 26
        65707 16 28
        50606 11 27

         

        Now because the system would be converting from something that is numerically unsorted to a numerically sorted equivalent, the system will best be used for playing box, not straight. Maybe this weekend I can make a version of my system for Pick 3 that throws in this conversion.Smile

        Guru101,

        I like your original motivation better.  In the [000-999] games the order IS significant AND the 3 separate machines involved allow [0-9] to repeat up to 3 times.  Your 3/30 game will result in precisely the same odds as the other if you set it up as follows:

        -- In your machine place 3 zeros, 3 ones, , , , , , , , and 3 nines.

        -- After EACH of the first 2 Draws, place the balls drawn back into the machine.

        This way, the ODDS in your game will be:

        (3/30) * (3/30) * (3/30) == 27/27000 == 1:1000

        --Jimmy4164

          Guru101's avatar - rw6jhh
          Indiana
          United States
          Member #48725
          January 7, 2007
          1955 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: April 14, 2011, 7:14 pm - IP Logged

          I tried that once with my system and it really doesn't lend itself to boxed combinations because 01 19 30 will only convert back to 089 and not 098,809,890,908 or 980.  If regular pick3 combinations are converted before stored in a data file then you would need a special complex converting routine when you were searching for box hits. 

          I found just storing 089 as the three number combination 0 8 9 and searching for a match3 was an easier way to search for a box hit.  However I ran into other problems because combinations in my system are stored in numerical order and numbers showing up more than once in a combination are considered an error.  The problems I ran into convinced me it was easier to just write a different program for pick3 and pick4 games if I wanted to keep some of the unique routines I wrote for pick5 and pick6 games with or without a bonus number.  Programs that try to do everything end up doing less.

          "I tried that once with my system and it really doesn't lend itself to boxed combinations because 01 19 30 will only convert back to 089 and not 098,809,890,908 or 980."

          If the program picks a set like "01 19 30" which converts to 089, I can be ok with that since I will always play the numbers as box. Even if 908 comes out, I will win $80, or $160 if there's a double.

          "If regular pick3 combinations are converted before stored in a data file then you would need a special complex converting routine when you were searching for box hits."

          Since we are looking for box hits, before checking to see if a combo is a box hit, we just need to take the right side and make sure it's in numerical order, and then if the combos match exactly, then that was a box hit. So to check if 569 is a box hit to 417, we would first sort it to 147, do the comparison, and find out that it's not. We would sort 659 to 569, do the comparison, and find out that it is because both numbers are exactly the same.

          Gonna win.Big Smile

            Guru101's avatar - rw6jhh
            Indiana
            United States
            Member #48725
            January 7, 2007
            1955 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: April 14, 2011, 7:44 pm - IP Logged

            Guru101,

            I like your original motivation better.  In the [000-999] games the order IS significant AND the 3 separate machines involved allow [0-9] to repeat up to 3 times.  Your 3/30 game will result in precisely the same odds as the other if you set it up as follows:

            -- In your machine place 3 zeros, 3 ones, , , , , , , , and 3 nines.

            -- After EACH of the first 2 Draws, place the balls drawn back into the machine.

            This way, the ODDS in your game will be:

            (3/30) * (3/30) * (3/30) == 27/27000 == 1:1000

            --Jimmy4164

            Jimmy, order would only be important if I was looking for straight hits. If I add the conversion mechanism to my system in order to use it with Pick 3(and maybe later Pick 4) and it produced very good results as far as box hits go, then I'm staying with it, I won't worry about straight hits. The odds of hitting a straight is 1:1000, whereas box hit odds are 1:167($80), 1:333 for doubles($160). These odds are BEFORE I pass the combo through my filters, so the potential odds could be a lot better. I just have to wait and see though. The only way for me to know is to test it out.

            Gonna win.Big Smile

              RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
              mid-Ohio
              United States
              Member #9
              March 24, 2001
              19831 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: April 14, 2011, 9:05 pm - IP Logged

              "I tried that once with my system and it really doesn't lend itself to boxed combinations because 01 19 30 will only convert back to 089 and not 098,809,890,908 or 980."

              If the program picks a set like "01 19 30" which converts to 089, I can be ok with that since I will always play the numbers as box. Even if 908 comes out, I will win $80, or $160 if there's a double.

              "If regular pick3 combinations are converted before stored in a data file then you would need a special complex converting routine when you were searching for box hits."

              Since we are looking for box hits, before checking to see if a combo is a box hit, we just need to take the right side and make sure it's in numerical order, and then if the combos match exactly, then that was a box hit. So to check if 569 is a box hit to 417, we would first sort it to 147, do the comparison, and find out that it's not. We would sort 659 to 569, do the comparison, and find out that it is because both numbers are exactly the same.

              If the program picks a set like "01 19 30" which converts to 089, I can be ok with that since I will always play the numbers as box. Even if 908 comes out, I will win $80, or $160 if there's a double.

              I was thinking more along the line of using the data for research.  If you're saying that 089, 098, 809, 890, 908 and 980 will all be sorted and stored as 01 19 30, then you are limiting yourself to just keeping records for the 220 box combinations rather all 1000 possible combination and you'll have no way of telling if a combination has ever hit straight.

               * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                 
                           Evil Looking       

                Guru101's avatar - rw6jhh
                Indiana
                United States
                Member #48725
                January 7, 2007
                1955 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: April 14, 2011, 9:12 pm - IP Logged

                If the program picks a set like "01 19 30" which converts to 089, I can be ok with that since I will always play the numbers as box. Even if 908 comes out, I will win $80, or $160 if there's a double.

                I was thinking more along the line of using the data for research.  If you're saying that 089, 098, 809, 890, 908 and 980 will all be sorted and stored as 01 19 30, then you are limiting yourself to just keeping records for the 220 box combinations rather all 1000 possible combination and you'll have no way of telling if a combination has ever hit straight.

                That's alright. I'm only going to use it for box. I don't plan on storing the game's history in the converted form. I'm going to store it in its original form, unsorted. All numerical sorting and comparisons are going to be done within the program.

                Gonna win.Big Smile

                  RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                  mid-Ohio
                  United States
                  Member #9
                  March 24, 2001
                  19831 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: April 14, 2011, 9:35 pm - IP Logged

                  That's alright. I'm only going to use it for box. I don't plan on storing the game's history in the converted form. I'm going to store it in its original form, unsorted. All numerical sorting and comparisons are going to be done within the program.

                  Good luck, you've got your work cut out for you trying to use a program designed for pick5/6 and jackpot games with pick3 games.  I know pick3 players have PM me in the past asking if my program could develop the same information for their Pick3 games.  If they see your post, some of them will probably be interested in your results.

                   * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                     
                               Evil Looking       

                    Guru101's avatar - rw6jhh
                    Indiana
                    United States
                    Member #48725
                    January 7, 2007
                    1955 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: April 14, 2011, 10:04 pm - IP Logged

                    Good luck, you've got your work cut out for you trying to use a program designed for pick5/6 and jackpot games with pick3 games.  I know pick3 players have PM me in the past asking if my program could develop the same information for their Pick3 games.  If they see your post, some of them will probably be interested in your results.

                    Thanks. I'm gonna try it out. If it doesn't do so good, I can always stop playing those games. Now that I think about it, I will need a history file in the converted format so I can figure out what values to use in the filters. I'll just print it out and do the math on paper.Big Smile

                    Gonna win.Big Smile

                      ameriken's avatar - 33ojew2
                      Denver, Co
                      United States
                      Member #103046
                      December 29, 2010
                      546 Posts
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                      Posted: April 14, 2011, 10:39 pm - IP Logged

                      After reading this, I decided to see for myself what would happen with $25/day toward a Cash 5 game using random numbers, and $25/day using my own system picks.

                      After 3 days:

                      Random: $75 spent, $12 won

                      System:  $75 spent, $38 won

                      I think the advantage system play may have over random play, is in system play there is the tendency to play groups of numbers with similar combinations, so when you hit, you don't just get one hit but several. Of course, 3 days is not enough to be conclusive, so I intend to continue this for a while just to find out for my ownself whether or not I'm wasting my time with system play.

                      So, after a $475 simulation and comparison:

                      Random: $129 won

                      System:  $194 won

                      And I'm still learning this system, I do expect I'll get better with my inputs. So far, after 14 days comparing, I am still convinced I am using a good system and that I should not be buying quickpicks.

                        visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                        light on my feet
                        United States
                        Member #356
                        May 20, 2002
                        2744 Posts
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                        Posted: April 15, 2011, 2:17 am - IP Logged

                        So REALLY it would be a system versus a system? 

                        I don't see how that solves anything.

                        But good luck trying to convince someone you're actually doing the quick pick routine.

                        nope,  and the truth about you is you know it isn't,  and now you are backpeddling with semantics.

                          mark that another merry-go-round in the excuse dept.

                        if YOU pick the RNG,  it can't be fixed.

                        it's pathetic how you guys feign bravado,  then when i strut out a straight up integrity laden test,  that you can agree to pre drawing, out come the excuses.

                        go ahead garyo,  since you thought it was a "good idea",  step up.

                        you can steer it in the right direction that screams fairness out of the gate.

                        well ?

                                    "i am .........."meant to"       

                        P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                                 until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                          garyo1954's avatar - garyo
                          Dallas, Texas
                          United States
                          Member #4549
                          May 2, 2004
                          1739 Posts
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                          Posted: April 15, 2011, 9:19 am - IP Logged

                          nope,  and the truth about you is you know it isn't,  and now you are backpeddling with semantics.

                            mark that another merry-go-round in the excuse dept.

                          if YOU pick the RNG,  it can't be fixed.

                          it's pathetic how you guys feign bravado,  then when i strut out a straight up integrity laden test,  that you can agree to pre drawing, out come the excuses.

                          go ahead garyo,  since you thought it was a "good idea",  step up.

                          you can steer it in the right direction that screams fairness out of the gate.

                          well ?

                          I'd give it some thought if you'd agree to post Quick Pick tickets. That's the only way I'd even consider it Quick Picks vs System.

                          You can call it what you like but it's not a Quick Pick unless it has 'QP' at the end of the line.

                          And you still owe Stack a response.

                            Guru101's avatar - rw6jhh
                            Indiana
                            United States
                            Member #48725
                            January 7, 2007
                            1955 Posts
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                            Posted: April 15, 2011, 9:45 am - IP Logged

                            I'd give it some thought if you'd agree to post Quick Pick tickets. That's the only way I'd even consider it Quick Picks vs System.

                            You can call it what you like but it's not a Quick Pick unless it has 'QP' at the end of the line.

                            And you still owe Stack a response.

                            I Agree!

                            Let the terminal pick the numbers. That way we know for sure that it's a QP if you post the ticket. The ticket will say "QP" at the end of the line. Even if we agreed on an RNG such as Random.org, we wouldn't know if the tickets you post are really from that RNG, or numbers from your own system.

                            Gonna win.Big Smile

                              Avatar
                              Kentucky
                              United States
                              Member #32652
                              February 14, 2006
                              7325 Posts
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                              Posted: April 15, 2011, 11:46 am - IP Logged

                              I'd give it some thought if you'd agree to post Quick Pick tickets. That's the only way I'd even consider it Quick Picks vs System.

                              You can call it what you like but it's not a Quick Pick unless it has 'QP' at the end of the line.

                              And you still owe Stack a response.

                              System play is based on how much the player is planning to wager so players using a system with 20 combos have no intentions of purchasing another 20 QPs for comparison. They can rightfully say a 40 combo system should outperform a 20 combo system. From a systems players perception it's a choice between buying 20 SPs or 20 QPs; there is no both.

                              VD has always maintained any old RNG can be used for comparison ignoring the fact system players are choosing between actually playing their system picks or QPs. The only true test must be purchased QPs versus the system play.

                                 
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