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# Why Do Mathematicians Consider The Lottery Random

Topic closed. 261 replies. Last post 5 years ago by Boney526.

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ORLANDO, FLORIDA
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 Posted: August 29, 2011, 5:05 pm - IP Logged

Why waste your time looking it over? Boney told us everything we need to know about every system out there. Didn't you read what he wrote? Get with the program already...

I use to have a copy of Sedertrees' program, but lost it due to computer crash.

New Jersey
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 Posted: August 29, 2011, 5:16 pm - IP Logged

"Waiting out for 10 spins doesn't make it more likely that the next spin will contain your winner"

I realize you're talking about roulette here, but do you have the same opinion on draws in for example pick3?

Yep.  In a fair game - at least, it's possible that in an RNG their could be patterns to exploit, although I don't persue them.

Games like that are bound to have patterns due to the signifcanly low odds of them appearing.  As in - the formation of patterns in a Pick 3 game is frequent, but I don't think they are reliably predictable assuming it's something like a ball draw.

Switching between Fairfax, VA and Belgium
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 Posted: August 29, 2011, 5:32 pm - IP Logged

Yep.  In a fair game - at least, it's possible that in an RNG their could be patterns to exploit, although I don't persue them.

Games like that are bound to have patterns due to the signifcanly low odds of them appearing.  As in - the formation of patterns in a Pick 3 game is frequent, but I don't think they are reliably predictable assuming it's something like a ball draw.

With a database with over 253,000 draws, and running tests with 1760 'structures' (each structure represents a set of numbers that can be created using filtering-items, such as highlow, oddeven, inout, openclosed, ...and many others) the result was that there was absolutely no difference in statistics when looking at the numbers are drawn or an RNG spit them out.

There are strategies to beat the game, but it takes time, discipline and a bankroll (not that one needs 10 grand to be safe, but i've had long running "out structures" that took me over \$2000 playing before having the hit, the good part is that this happens so rarely, that other bets build up the bankroll)

It can be done, and i have the statistics to back up what i am saying here.

If a structure of organized numbers is out long enough, the "pressure" to hit, increases. (don't know how to say it otherwise, sorry), there are borders and they can be found.
Simply because the overall statistics will always, and i mean always be in balance.
It might sometimes take 60 draws, even 100 draws, but in the end, it is payout time. (the downside is that the longer it takes, the lower the winnings, relatively compared to the amount spend, but always it will be a win --> the key is selecting the right moment to begin playing a certain structure(set of numbers), and that is where i still struggle lol)

The problem with most players, and i'm talking about pick3 players, is that they want to win big with just a handfull, 10 or so, numbers.
To win big one doesn't play pick3 but megamillions or games of that type.
An occasional straight hit happens when playing just a few numbers, but then the odds don't favor you and you'll lose in the end.

lasas3

An onion a day keeps everyone away!!!

New Jersey
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 Posted: August 29, 2011, 6:09 pm - IP Logged

I should clarify - bad programming could result in a bad output of numbers, an unfair game.  The case was true in one instance (I think it was Cali's daily derby) where the RNG blocked any possibilty of a double like 223, or 233.

It's true that the numbers frequencies balance overtime, as a result of the fact that each numbers has equal odds.

Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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 Posted: August 29, 2011, 6:18 pm - IP Logged

I should clarify - bad programming could result in a bad output of numbers, an unfair game.  The case was true in one instance (I think it was Cali's daily derby) where the RNG blocked any possibilty of a double like 223, or 233.

It's true that the numbers frequencies balance overtime, as a result of the fact that each numbers has equal odds.

Tennessee blocked doubles for a long while when the Dragon Lady came in and got rid of our ball machines and started the fake computer drawings.

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

--Edmund Burke

LAS VEGAS
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November 22, 2006
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 Posted: August 29, 2011, 7:19 pm - IP Logged

With a database with over 253,000 draws, and running tests with 1760 'structures' (each structure represents a set of numbers that can be created using filtering-items, such as highlow, oddeven, inout, openclosed, ...and many others) the result was that there was absolutely no difference in statistics when looking at the numbers are drawn or an RNG spit them out.

There are strategies to beat the game, but it takes time, discipline and a bankroll (not that one needs 10 grand to be safe, but i've had long running "out structures" that took me over \$2000 playing before having the hit, the good part is that this happens so rarely, that other bets build up the bankroll)

It can be done, and i have the statistics to back up what i am saying here.

If a structure of organized numbers is out long enough, the "pressure" to hit, increases. (don't know how to say it otherwise, sorry), there are borders and they can be found.
Simply because the overall statistics will always, and i mean always be in balance.
It might sometimes take 60 draws, even 100 draws, but in the end, it is payout time. (the downside is that the longer it takes, the lower the winnings, relatively compared to the amount spend, but always it will be a win --> the key is selecting the right moment to begin playing a certain structure(set of numbers), and that is where i still struggle lol)

The problem with most players, and i'm talking about pick3 players, is that they want to win big with just a handfull, 10 or so, numbers.
To win big one doesn't play pick3 but megamillions or games of that type.
An occasional straight hit happens when playing just a few numbers, but then the odds don't favor you and you'll lose in the end.

"there are borders and they can be found." ~paurths

There are limits to negative streaks in all forms of speculation. How is it we don't see 50, 75 or 100 black or red outcomes???

"Trees don't grow to heaven!."

DIMINESHING PROBABILITY:

"As any repeated pattern of *chance events continues, it's reversal becomes progressuvely imminent."

"Events with a sufficiently small proability, never happen."

~Emile Borel - promiminent founder & exponentof the modern therory of probability

*as long as it's a fair game without damaged appartus etc. (my note)

For most of us the prmary objective should be to win, not to see how much we can win or lose in a given amount of time.

Bon Chance,

EddessaKnight

New Jersey
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 Posted: August 29, 2011, 8:25 pm - IP Logged

I agree withj most of what you're saying, but this statement isn't wrong, but it's definetly misleading.

""As any repeated pattern of *chance events continues, it's reversal becomes progressuvely imminent.""

The reason that it's misleading is because as long as their's no damage to the mechanism creating the random event, then the chances of black coming out after it's come out 10 times is still 18 in 38.  The reason we don't see it happen 50 times in a row is because the odds of a single color showing up 50 times in a row is 1 divided by (18/38)^50, or 1 in 16,809,491,491,404,623.52 or in other words - it's basically impossible.  Like Emile Borel said - events with suffeceintly small probability never happen and this is one of them, not because it's getting "more probable" to see a red in the next spin after 10 blacks, it's just that a 18/38 chance will eventually happen, and it's almost 50/50 so we shouldn't have to wait too long to see it.

Kentucky
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 Posted: August 30, 2011, 1:05 pm - IP Logged

When the online money transfer bill was passed, virtually making online gaming illegal, many of the foreign gaming sites closed all the U.S. accounts. The larger sites found ways around the law and continued business as usual.

Before April is was easy to cash your online poker winnings; I could select the amount and the funds would be in my bank account the same day. When the Justice Department froze the funds, they had to negotiate ways to payoff U.S. players. Some sites were ready and willing to pay all the U.S. players, but some still haven't paid.

I'm not disputing that your friend did withdraw some or all of his winnings before April, but anything withdrawn after that, he'll get a letter from the IRS. If it was as simple as transferring funds via Western Union or Canadian banks, millions of Americans would still be playing online poker but they can't.

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 Posted: August 30, 2011, 1:29 pm - IP Logged

When the online money transfer bill was passed, virtually making online gaming illegal, many of the foreign gaming sites closed all the U.S. accounts. The larger sites found ways around the law and continued business as usual.

Before April is was easy to cash your online poker winnings; I could select the amount and the funds would be in my bank account the same day. When the Justice Department froze the funds, they had to negotiate ways to payoff U.S. players. Some sites were ready and willing to pay all the U.S. players, but some still haven't paid.

I'm not disputing that your friend did withdraw some or all of his winnings before April, but anything withdrawn after that, he'll get a letter from the IRS. If it was as simple as transferring funds via Western Union or Canadian banks, millions of Americans would still be playing online poker but they can't.

If he transfers funds through that site's own methods not involving the U.S. in any way, to a Canadian bank, which I believe is the way he did it, then he won't get any letters from the IRS.

Kentucky
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 Posted: August 30, 2011, 8:03 pm - IP Logged

If he transfers funds through that site's own methods not involving the U.S. in any way, to a Canadian bank, which I believe is the way he did it, then he won't get any letters from the IRS.

Before April my U.S. bank would deposit funds into my account indirectly from the Bank of Malta, but now Federal Regulations prohibit those type of funds (to and from foreign online gaming sites) from being transferred. The methods used to transfer funds by the online gamings sites were ruled illegal and the Justice Department froze their assets and seized their web domains.

If any Canadian Bank wants to deal with American Banks they must be an assurance the funds are not from online gaming sites. Billions of dollars are being transfered legally both ways each day so it's unlikely any foreign or domestic bank will now take the risk. I'm  not saying your friend couldn't cash out before April, but if he continued to play and cash after, he was doing something an estimated 5 million U.S. online poker players can no longer do.

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 Posted: August 30, 2011, 8:35 pm - IP Logged

Before April my U.S. bank would deposit funds into my account indirectly from the Bank of Malta, but now Federal Regulations prohibit those type of funds (to and from foreign online gaming sites) from being transferred. The methods used to transfer funds by the online gamings sites were ruled illegal and the Justice Department froze their assets and seized their web domains.

If any Canadian Bank wants to deal with American Banks they must be an assurance the funds are not from online gaming sites. Billions of dollars are being transfered legally both ways each day so it's unlikely any foreign or domestic bank will now take the risk. I'm  not saying your friend couldn't cash out before April, but if he continued to play and cash after, he was doing something an estimated 5 million U.S. online poker players can no longer do.

Who said anything about American banks dealing with canadian banks? The money goes straight from that place that has a coin name in it, which obviously they're untouchable by the U.S. because my friend was wiring money to the Canadian bank well after April. Like you said, some of the bigger offshore places like the one mentioned above found ways around it. It goes directly to the Canadian bank.

Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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 Posted: August 30, 2011, 10:02 pm - IP Logged

Who said anything about American banks dealing with canadian banks? The money goes straight from that place that has a coin name in it, which obviously they're untouchable by the U.S. because my friend was wiring money to the Canadian bank well after April. Like you said, some of the bigger offshore places like the one mentioned above found ways around it. It goes directly to the Canadian bank.

LOL, and this whole tangled, convoluted mess of a story entailing the making of millions on Pick4 and international banking intrigue is true why?

Because some guy on the internet told you it is!

Well that's good enough for me!

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

--Edmund Burke

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 Posted: August 30, 2011, 10:59 pm - IP Logged

LOL, and this whole tangled, convoluted mess of a story entailing the making of millions on Pick4 and international banking intrigue is true why?

Because some guy on the internet told you it is!

Well that's good enough for me!

Oh the Irony....lol

I don't want to start the old argument over again, but I must point out that you believe in fairytales written in an old relic named the Bible written thousands of years ago why? Because a few old clueless men wrote it down, yeah, that's good enough for me....

Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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 Posted: August 30, 2011, 11:14 pm - IP Logged

Oh the Irony....lol

I don't want to start the old argument over again, but I must point out that you believe in fairytales written in an old relic named the Bible written thousands of years ago why? Because a few old clueless men wrote it down, yeah, that's good enough for me....

LOL, yeah but if those "old clueless men" had told you the same thing on the internet you would have believed them.

Hey, this guy, "your mumbling friend," is he the one that sold you the dog racing system for \$2,600.00 that was guaranteed to make you a millionaire too?

How's that working out for ya so far?

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

--Edmund Burke

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 Posted: August 30, 2011, 11:41 pm - IP Logged

LOL, yeah but if those "old clueless men" had told you the same thing on the internet you would have believed them.

Hey, this guy, "your mumbling friend," is he the one that sold you the dog racing system for \$2,600.00 that was guaranteed to make you a millionaire too?

How's that working out for ya so far?

Yeah, the old twist it around on me instead of addressing the original issue i brought up, but don't worry, I expected that from you. It's hard to come up with a good response when you're backed in a corner.

No, it wasn't he who told me about the dog racing system. I found that out by searching the net. Had I known there was a 3 year learning curve, I'd never have bought it. Not a big deal, i figure I spent more on Mary jane, cigs, and liquor over the past 30 years, that it makes spending 2,250 not 2,600, look like peanuts. You live and you learn. The system does work, but I would have to put much more time into it than I thought. In fact, i did put a lot of energy into it because I really wanted to learn it, but that wasn't enough. It takes 3 years just to make a living off of it.The amount of info was like a mini college course.

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