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# So what would the "Holy Grail" of Pick 3 playing be?

Topic closed. 268 replies. Last post 2 years ago by Atomic Dog.

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Texas
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December 31, 2013
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 Posted: September 17, 2014, 7:03 am - IP Logged

Root sums are different. You take the sum and keep adding till you get to one number. Example sum 14. 1+4=5. Root sum is 5. Sum 24. 2+4= 6 root sum is 6. Sum 19 1+9=10, 1+0 =1. root sum is 1.  Sum 29. 2+9=11, 1+1=2 root sum is 2.  Single digit sums are the root sum. Sum 7 = root sum 7.

Root sums do not usually have the same root sum hit 2 days in a row. Normally it may happen once every 2-3 weeks or so. But like anything else it can get on a hot spell. Normally they go up, down, up, down from day to day. Usually 2 to 5 higher or lower than the root sum from the day before. Individual Root sums will usually hit in streaks of about 3 maybe 4 at very most, but it may take a week or so to happen. Sometimes they may hit 2 days apart. Once you start tracking them you'll really see it.

What you can do is get  some graph paper. Write the dates across the top and the root sums on the left side. I go 9 down to 1. Then each day put a mark on the root sum for that day and then just connect the dots. Go back about a month and you'll get a good idea of how they go.

Use the paper with the smaller boxes, that way you can go about 7 weeks across the page instead of about 5 weeks with the bigger boxes. Good luck with it.

"Root sums do not usually have the same root sum hit 2 days in a row."

90% of the time the root sum will NOT repeat the same root sum in the next draw.  A repeat will happen, on average, every 10 draws.  About 95% of the time a repeat will hit within 25 draws of the last repeat.

These statistics are the same for Last Digt of Sum (LDS).  E.g. sum 27 - LDS=7, sum 5, LDS=5. LDS has the advantage of an equal number of combinations in each group.

For the Sums, you will not see a repeat 95% of the time.

Eliminating the last-hit sum is one of the highest percentage plays in Pick 3.

"There is no such thing as luck; only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe."

~Robert A. Heinlein

Stone Mountain*Georgia
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 Posted: September 17, 2014, 7:19 am - IP Logged

"Root sums do not usually have the same root sum hit 2 days in a row."

90% of the time the root sum will NOT repeat the same root sum in the next draw.  A repeat will happen, on average, every 10 draws.  About 95% of the time a repeat will hit within 25 draws of the last repeat.

These statistics are the same for Last Digt of Sum (LDS).  E.g. sum 27 - LDS=7, sum 5, LDS=5. LDS has the advantage of an equal number of combinations in each group.

For the Sums, you will not see a repeat 95% of the time.

Eliminating the last-hit sum is one of the highest percentage plays in Pick 3.

OK...that's it.

I give up .....  I LOVE you Texas lady !     LOL

The only real failure .....is the failure to try.

Luck is a very rare thing....... Odds not so much.

Odds never change .....but probability does.

Win d

ORLANDO, FLORIDA
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June 3, 2004
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 Posted: September 17, 2014, 7:26 am - IP Logged

OK...that's it.

I give up .....  I LOVE you Texas lady !     LOL

Chaz, does she remind you of yourself, in your youth???  LOL

Stone Mountain*Georgia
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 Posted: September 17, 2014, 7:53 am - IP Logged

Hi Bob !

Yes sirree , in the old days. Back when all of our repeat rates were a lot higher.  LOL

The only real failure .....is the failure to try.

Luck is a very rare thing....... Odds not so much.

Odds never change .....but probability does.

Win d

New Mexico
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January 29, 2010
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 Posted: September 17, 2014, 12:34 pm - IP Logged

recent Nm p3 draws.

Draw     root     width     27-sum

141      6          3              21

733     4         4                14

880      7         8                11

287      8         6                10

776       2        1                7

198       9        8                 9

803       2         8              16

616     4          5              14

402      6         4               21

There is a wealth of info right in front of you.  The 27- sum shows sums 16 that hit 4 draws later 880.  Even for pairs 14,11 for the 141 draw.  The root width of the 803 hit as the 287 three draws later. The wide width of the 198 draw  8 gives you a hint that the next draw will be a smaller width (9-8 is one).  Alas a double!    I don' t muddle things with percentages in a 3 number game because to me they are useless.  Commen sense and the draws right in front of your eyes tell you a lot. Sit back and take your time with real data (the draws) are  more effective to me.  I don't go to the store with 97% or 87% in my mind with my betslips!   Ridiculous!

New Haven, CT - Queens, NY
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October 13, 2010
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 Posted: September 17, 2014, 1:50 pm - IP Logged

Root sums are different. You take the sum and keep adding till you get to one number. Example sum 14. 1+4=5. Root sum is 5. Sum 24. 2+4= 6 root sum is 6. Sum 19 1+9=10, 1+0 =1. root sum is 1.  Sum 29. 2+9=11, 1+1=2 root sum is 2.  Single digit sums are the root sum. Sum 7 = root sum 7.

Root sums do not usually have the same root sum hit 2 days in a row. Normally it may happen once every 2-3 weeks or so. But like anything else it can get on a hot spell. Normally they go up, down, up, down from day to day. Usually 2 to 5 higher or lower than the root sum from the day before. Individual Root sums will usually hit in streaks of about 3 maybe 4 at very most, but it may take a week or so to happen. Sometimes they may hit 2 days apart. Once you start tracking them you'll really see it.

What you can do is get  some graph paper. Write the dates across the top and the root sums on the left side. I go 9 down to 1. Then each day put a mark on the root sum for that day and then just connect the dots. Go back about a month and you'll get a good idea of how they go.

Use the paper with the smaller boxes, that way you can go about 7 weeks across the page instead of about 5 weeks with the bigger boxes. Good luck with it.

Thank you grwurston..good looking out.

Thanks for the stats Tia...& Lakerben I'll be observing that more closely.

I may be adding Sums to my arsenal.

The goal is to approach the Pick 3 & Pick 4 game sensibly and systematically!!

I'm not like the guy who predicted the end of the world and nothing happened.

Dallas, Texas
United States
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May 2, 2004
1831 Posts
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 Posted: September 17, 2014, 2:26 pm - IP Logged

Nice discussion! Magic pools, percentages, and gut feelings. Lost on gut feeling Monday. Hunched 145. Came out Tuesday evening 415. sigh

But MAGIC POOL!!!!!

(Yes, another "Here we go dredging up a blast from the past" )

Cliffs notes: Win D's thread on sum trapping. (circa. 2008 - 2010) Basically playing the sum that is out the longest. Good trap.

Combined with another Win D's thread which asked is it better to play five digit wheel or a 6 digit wheel?

Which leads to set trapping. The MAGIC POOL...a set of 5 or 6 numbers that are 1) hit often, and 2) have been missing longer than normal.

How do we do that? We produce a chart something like this......

x1 - x5 is the set, sng=singles, dbl=double, trp = triples, ln = longest out, crr= currently out, S% Single percentage, D% = double percentage. control group to the right. control group doesn't change every set containing 5 digit produces 60/60/5.

Or a six digit chart.....

125 combinations vs 216. more hits. better at producing singles. hits more often, don't stay out as long.

Either way you'll have a set of e/o, hi/lo. Wheel; check clean numbers.  Play. WIN!

(if you don' win, you picked the wrong set. Try again and again and again.)

This idea produces a good set, a good trap, and a good opportunity.

Did I say Great thread yet?

G

My greatest accomplishment is teaching cats about Vienna Sausage. When I need a friend, all I need do is walk outside, pop open a can, and every little critter in the neighborhood drops by to say "Hi!"

Park City, UT
United States
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January 18, 2009
993 Posts
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 Posted: September 17, 2014, 3:25 pm - IP Logged

Nice discussion! Magic pools, percentages, and gut feelings. Lost on gut feeling Monday. Hunched 145. Came out Tuesday evening 415. sigh

But MAGIC POOL!!!!!

(Yes, another "Here we go dredging up a blast from the past" )

Cliffs notes: Win D's thread on sum trapping. (circa. 2008 - 2010) Basically playing the sum that is out the longest. Good trap.

Combined with another Win D's thread which asked is it better to play five digit wheel or a 6 digit wheel?

Which leads to set trapping. The MAGIC POOL...a set of 5 or 6 numbers that are 1) hit often, and 2) have been missing longer than normal.

How do we do that? We produce a chart something like this......

x1 - x5 is the set, sng=singles, dbl=double, trp = triples, ln = longest out, crr= currently out, S% Single percentage, D% = double percentage. control group to the right. control group doesn't change every set containing 5 digit produces 60/60/5.

Or a six digit chart.....

125 combinations vs 216. more hits. better at producing singles. hits more often, don't stay out as long.

Either way you'll have a set of e/o, hi/lo. Wheel; check clean numbers.  Play. WIN!

(if you don' win, you picked the wrong set. Try again and again and again.)

This idea produces a good set, a good trap, and a good opportunity.

Did I say Great thread yet?

G

I did something similar for the cash 5 games.

1. Track groupings of 10 numbers.  For a 5/39 game there are 635,745,396 unique groupings of 10 numbers.
2. I then tracked those unique groupings and categorized them for match3, match4, match5, and a weighted bias.
3. Using the weighted bias I would find the groupings that outperformed other sets over a specified period of time.
4. Once I found the ones that outperformed, I looked for the ones that were now cold, that were under performing.
5. I then waited for the one of the under performing sets to hit, and then for the next 10 draws I would play an abbreviated 4 if 5 of 10 wheel or nine tickets.  My research had indicated that a set that typically was hot but went under a cold spell had a high a knack for hitting again in a short period of time or 10 draws.

I have hit 4 of 5 a number of times using this strategy but could never get the elusive 5 of 5.

You have to write some efficient software that is multi-threaded on a multi-core computer to analyze all of those 635,745,396 unique groupings in a reasonable amount of time.  Don't even try to attempt this using a language like Basic.

Jimmy

Dallas, Texas
United States
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 Posted: September 17, 2014, 4:07 pm - IP Logged

I did something similar for the cash 5 games.

1. Track groupings of 10 numbers.  For a 5/39 game there are 635,745,396 unique groupings of 10 numbers.
2. I then tracked those unique groupings and categorized them for match3, match4, match5, and a weighted bias.
3. Using the weighted bias I would find the groupings that outperformed other sets over a specified period of time.
4. Once I found the ones that outperformed, I looked for the ones that were now cold, that were under performing.
5. I then waited for the one of the under performing sets to hit, and then for the next 10 draws I would play an abbreviated 4 if 5 of 10 wheel or nine tickets.  My research had indicated that a set that typically was hot but went under a cold spell had a high a knack for hitting again in a short period of time or 10 draws.

I have hit 4 of 5 a number of times using this strategy but could never get the elusive 5 of 5.

You have to write some efficient software that is multi-threaded on a multi-core computer to analyze all of those 635,745,396 unique groupings in a reasonable amount of time.  Don't even try to attempt this using a language like Basic.

Jimmy

Haven't tried that jim. Sounds interesting.

I agree on the programming. I keep a couple of old XP machines. Need the 25 pin connector for the cnc machine. So they serve a dual purpose when running large programs. Been there when you start a promising program and three days later it is still running. No fun.

For the most part I tend to run quick hitters. Just enough to get the necessary info without all the fluff. And I try to keep library of plug  and play snippets. With minimal editing you can put together a program for 3, 4, 5, digit games fairly quick. Definitely makes everything conform and finding errors are a whole lot simpler.

Cash5 here doesn't pay as well as 2Step, so I tend to spend more time on 2Step. Still enjoy tinkering with Pick 3. Way back, the idea was to play Pick3 to bankroll the other games. LOL

G

My greatest accomplishment is teaching cats about Vienna Sausage. When I need a friend, all I need do is walk outside, pop open a can, and every little critter in the neighborhood drops by to say "Hi!"

ORLANDO, FLORIDA
United States
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June 3, 2004
5962 Posts
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 Posted: September 17, 2014, 4:43 pm - IP Logged

recent Nm p3 draws.

Draw     root     width     27-sum

141      6          3              21

733     4         4                14

880      7         8                11

287      8         6                10

776       2        1                7

198       9        8                 9

803       2         8              16

616     4          5              14

402      6         4               21

There is a wealth of info right in front of you.  The 27- sum shows sums 16 that hit 4 draws later 880.  Even for pairs 14,11 for the 141 draw.  The root width of the 803 hit as the 287 three draws later. The wide width of the 198 draw  8 gives you a hint that the next draw will be a smaller width (9-8 is one).  Alas a double!    I don' t muddle things with percentages in a 3 number game because to me they are useless.  Commen sense and the draws right in front of your eyes tell you a lot. Sit back and take your time with real data (the draws) are  more effective to me.  I don't go to the store with 97% or 87% in my mind with my betslips!   Ridiculous!

Would you rather go to the store, using your method, with a 20% hit rate, using 4-draws as a base, or a 90% hit rate as Tia and Win D are suggesting. Where is your common sense?

These 44 combos have a hit avg of every 3 draws, boxes.

178, 017, 035, 089, 125, 018, 027, 036, 045, 126, 189, 019, 037, 127, 136, 145, 029, 038, 047, 056, 128, 146, 039, 057, 129, 138, 147, 156, 049, 058, 067, 148, 059, 149, 158, 167, 015, 069, 078, 168, 016, 025, 079, 169

Let's Go Rangers!!!
bel air maryland
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 Posted: September 17, 2014, 5:15 pm - IP Logged

Pick 3  Clean#'s by Root Sums.

RS 1  019-037-127-136-145-235-289-469-478   9#'s

RS 2  029-038-047-056-128-146-236-245-389-479  10#'s

RS 3  039-057-129-138-147-156-237-345-489  9#'s

RS 4  049-058-067-148-238-247-256-346  8#'s

RS 5  059-149-158-167-239-257-347-356  8#'s

RS 6  015-069-078-168-249-258-267-348-456  9#'s

RS 7  016-025-079-169-178-259-349-358-367-457  10#'s

RS 8  017-035-089-125-269-278-368-458-467  9#'s

RS 9  018-027-036-045-126-189-279-369-378-459  10#'s

Pick 3 Clean #'s by Sums.  82 #'s.

Sum 6  RS 6  015  1#

Sum 7  RS 7  016-025  2#

Sum 8  RS 8  017-035-125  3#

Sum 9  RS 9  018-027-036-045-126  5#

Sum 10 RS 1  019-037-127-136-145-235  6#

Sum 11 RS 2  029-038-047-056-128-146-236-245  8#

Sum 12 RS 3  039-057-129-138-147-156-237-345  8#

Sum 13 RS 4  049-058-067-148-238-247-256-346  8#

Sum 14 RS 5  059-149-158-167-239-257-347-356  8#

Sum 15 RS 6  069-078-168-249-258-267-348-456  8#

Sum 16 RS 7  079-169-178-259-349-358-367-457  8#

Sum 17 RS 8  089-269-278-368-458-467  6#

Sum 18 RS 9  189-279-369-378-459  5#

Sum 19 RS 1  289-469-478  3#

Sum 20 RS 2  389-479  2#

Sum 21 RS 3  489  1#

"You can observe a lot just by watching." Yogi Berra, Hall of Fame baseball player.

The numbers will tell you what numbers to play. Pay attention to the numbers.

Don't just think outside the box, crush it.

New Mexico
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January 29, 2010
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 Posted: September 17, 2014, 5:21 pm - IP Logged

Would you rather go to the store, using your method, with a 20% hit rate, using 4-draws as a base, or a 90% hit rate as Tia and Win D are suggesting. Where is your common sense?

These 44 combos have a hit avg of every 3 draws, boxes.

178, 017, 035, 089, 125, 018, 027, 036, 045, 126, 189, 019, 037, 127, 136, 145, 029, 038, 047, 056, 128, 146, 039, 057, 129, 138, 147, 156, 049, 058, 067, 148, 059, 149, 158, 167, 015, 069, 078, 168, 016, 025, 079, 169

As usual you are so of base its not even funny. Wow,  90% where?? So we are supposed to play  44 plays to hope to hit a \$80 box?  Wow!  44 out of a 1000 possibilites?    I don't think so. This mornings NM draw was 672, so I should have thrown \$ 44 out the window on the 90% numbers???

I don't see nothing but percentages and imaginary hits.  This is a lotto site not a fantasy site.  Quit dreaming!

Refer to the many threads I have posted and the knockout p3 that is hitting all over the map.

The constant jealousy is clouding your thinking.

New Mexico
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January 29, 2010
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 Posted: September 17, 2014, 5:44 pm - IP Logged

Would you rather go to the store, using your method, with a 20% hit rate, using 4-draws as a base, or a 90% hit rate as Tia and Win D are suggesting. Where is your common sense?

These 44 combos have a hit avg of every 3 draws, boxes.

178, 017, 035, 089, 125, 018, 027, 036, 045, 126, 189, 019, 037, 127, 136, 145, 029, 038, 047, 056, 128, 146, 039, 057, 129, 138, 147, 156, 049, 058, 067, 148, 059, 149, 158, 167, 015, 069, 078, 168, 016, 025, 079, 169

The last 3 draws in the NM pick3 morning draws were:

672

367

802

The 90% numbers hit at 0% and at a cost of \$132.

I rest my case.

Simi Valley, CA
United States
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July 4, 2014
675 Posts
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 Posted: September 17, 2014, 8:49 pm - IP Logged

Nice discussion! Magic pools, percentages, and gut feelings. Lost on gut feeling Monday. Hunched 145. Came out Tuesday evening 415. sigh

But MAGIC POOL!!!!!

(Yes, another "Here we go dredging up a blast from the past" )

Cliffs notes: Win D's thread on sum trapping. (circa. 2008 - 2010) Basically playing the sum that is out the longest. Good trap.

Combined with another Win D's thread which asked is it better to play five digit wheel or a 6 digit wheel?

Which leads to set trapping. The MAGIC POOL...a set of 5 or 6 numbers that are 1) hit often, and 2) have been missing longer than normal.

How do we do that? We produce a chart something like this......

x1 - x5 is the set, sng=singles, dbl=double, trp = triples, ln = longest out, crr= currently out, S% Single percentage, D% = double percentage. control group to the right. control group doesn't change every set containing 5 digit produces 60/60/5.

Or a six digit chart.....

125 combinations vs 216. more hits. better at producing singles. hits more often, don't stay out as long.

Either way you'll have a set of e/o, hi/lo. Wheel; check clean numbers.  Play. WIN!

(if you don' win, you picked the wrong set. Try again and again and again.)

This idea produces a good set, a good trap, and a good opportunity.

Did I say Great thread yet?

G

This looks amazingly comprehensive... but I'm just too dense to grasp it, or maybe I'm wholly missing the utter simplicity?  Can you walk me through this, Gary, a step-by-step example of how someone might go from consulting these charts to picking a play?

Simi Valley, CA
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 Posted: September 17, 2014, 9:01 pm - IP Logged

There are a lot of great examples here, but they seem to miss what differentiates (to play with the original metaphor) a Dixie cup from a golden chalice.

Lots of these are best guesses.  Again, I can take a sampling of 10 numbers from the 120 singles boxes.  Sure, one could ride them for some plays... but they are notoriously uneven: you'll get rapid fire payoffs, then you might go long, long, LOOOOOONG stretches where your sampling won't fire... this is why the game uses an algorithm at all, to try to frustrate, well, the playahs.  And where are you at, when you jump into it, with your choice of ten?

To strangle the metaphor, what makes a plastic cup into a golden chalice, is that it contains a smallish pool of numbers that WILL pay off within a reasonable/manageable number of plays.  They won't swing from three in a row, to 100 plays later getting a hit (which is what many standard, simple, non-thought-out dividing of the boxes produces).

Not "might" pay off, or should pay off, or could pay off... will, pay off.

I am convinced the game is working off its own pools.  We can never know with total assurance what those pools are, but there are ways to get close: I'm convinced.  And so I continue searching (and many have come very close).

But the ideas put forth here are BRILLIANT!!!! The people who inhabit this board have had insights and come up with things that stagger me every time I log on here! All these insights are  extremely helpful, and I'm going to try to implement them anywhere I can.

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