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CA Lottery - California Love - CA Lottery Scratchers

Topic closed. 2718 replies. Last post 1 year ago by CAScratcher20.

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San Fran
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December 17, 2013
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Posted: April 14, 2015, 5:21 pm - IP Logged

what is the deal with games suddenly disappearing from stores with half the prizes left? is there anybody who actually releases a statement that "the game wasn't selling well"??? this mode of operation was very blatant with the zombies game. they mock it up as a holiday/seasonal game then (shortly after the holiday the game is referencing to passes) no retailers seem to have the game anymore with more than half the top prizes remaining. same with any seasonal game really.

ca lotto claims to "have no way of knowing" what games retailers have, as well as what's in stock at a location? so if im looking for a certain game that nobody seems to be carrying anymore with more than half of the top prize remaining im SOL??? so that makes me wonder what the "true odds" are on these games.

i actually stopped playing at the local 7-11 by me as its become a total hawk-zone. there is at least two different "team" players at this spot rifling through packs until they pull whatever good was in the pack out (nothing left for the casual player). last time i played there (3 months ago) i was playing $2 taxes paid hitting a winning pocket towards the end of the pack when of course some hawk-minded fool cuts in and buys the rest of the pack. everyday i go in to play fantasy5 and the trashcan next to the ticket checking machine is filled to the top with code-scratched-only tickets. there's this duo who sits out in the parking lot between 11pm-1am with their kids in the car while they scratch 5xcrossword on the back of they're van!!!??? i forgot cash one time and tried paying with debit and was turned down...that's ok if they want to do cash only transactions for lotto...but... then the next day i asked why lotto is "cash only" to the day shift dude i see when i play fantsy5 and he said that they do allow debit for "big time players that buy whole packs or close to a full pack" wtf is that?

last observation: in santa clarita i noticed they get new games when they come out. down where im at in l.a. the new games show up 3-4 weeks later on a consistent basis. so i get to look at the new games on the ca lotto site for a good while before i ever see an actual ticket unless i go up to scv first. the 7-11 i was talking about above also has never displayed the 50x cash game... yet i see tons of losers scratched in the fashion described above in the trash. I asked if they had them and was given a weird answer basically telling me they are already spoken for, so we dont put them out??? same with emerald 10's currently.

sad scene at this particular 7-11.

I would be interested to hear what the lottery officals would have to say about clerks "holding" games for certian players.  To me that is a seller working with a buyer to increase there odds and i wouldnt be suprized if there is agreement with the buyer and seller to split certian winnings if they hold a game for them to purchase.  Call the Lotto police,  they will look into it.

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    Posted: April 14, 2015, 7:36 pm - IP Logged

    Ticket hawking requires a lot of time, dedication, and as well as ideal circumstances to make it work, the hawks also requires the help of the clerk (who took the job for the purpose of hawking and may be friends with the ticket hawk). 

    If the regular players scratch their tickets on the spot at the store and then cashes or throws away the ticket; it is a good place to hawk. The clerk must also keep track of the winnings that come from a certain roll. Since rolls are guaranteed to have a certain winning amount, having tracked a ton of losing tickets makes the decision to buy the rest of the roll very favorable. If they take the risk and buy the first few and get winners from it, they can sell the rest to the others.

    Most stores do not even have a $5,000 winning ticket come their way for an entire year or two, so is it really all that good if one store reserves all the tickets to a hawk? They are part of the gamble as well so it should not really matter at all.

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      El Monte
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      Member #160216
      October 22, 2014
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      Posted: April 15, 2015, 4:17 am - IP Logged

      what is the deal with games suddenly disappearing from stores with half the prizes left? is there anybody who actually releases a statement that "the game wasn't selling well"??? this mode of operation was very blatant with the zombies game. they mock it up as a holiday/seasonal game then (shortly after the holiday the game is referencing to passes) no retailers seem to have the game anymore with more than half the top prizes remaining. same with any seasonal game really.

      ca lotto claims to "have no way of knowing" what games retailers have, as well as what's in stock at a location? so if im looking for a certain game that nobody seems to be carrying anymore with more than half of the top prize remaining im SOL??? so that makes me wonder what the "true odds" are on these games.

      i actually stopped playing at the local 7-11 by me as its become a total hawk-zone. there is at least two different "team" players at this spot rifling through packs until they pull whatever good was in the pack out (nothing left for the casual player). last time i played there (3 months ago) i was playing $2 taxes paid hitting a winning pocket towards the end of the pack when of course some hawk-minded fool cuts in and buys the rest of the pack. everyday i go in to play fantasy5 and the trashcan next to the ticket checking machine is filled to the top with code-scratched-only tickets. there's this duo who sits out in the parking lot between 11pm-1am with their kids in the car while they scratch 5xcrossword on the back of they're van!!!??? i forgot cash one time and tried paying with debit and was turned down...that's ok if they want to do cash only transactions for lotto...but... then the next day i asked why lotto is "cash only" to the day shift dude i see when i play fantsy5 and he said that they do allow debit for "big time players that buy whole packs or close to a full pack" wtf is that?

      last observation: in santa clarita i noticed they get new games when they come out. down where im at in l.a. the new games show up 3-4 weeks later on a consistent basis. so i get to look at the new games on the ca lotto site for a good while before i ever see an actual ticket unless i go up to scv first. the 7-11 i was talking about above also has never displayed the 50x cash game... yet i see tons of losers scratched in the fashion described above in the trash. I asked if they had them and was given a weird answer basically telling me they are already spoken for, so we dont put them out??? same with emerald 10's currently.

      sad scene at this particular 7-11.

      Where did you read that the CA Lotto claims that they have no way of knowing what games retailers have?  They have a very accurate accounting of what games retailers currently have and what games they'll be getting.  There are inventory reports broken down by game, dollar amounts, etc,  to help the retailers keep track of their inventory.  You can bet that CA Lottery also has access to this information as well.   They know when a pack is activated, but don't have access to how many tickets have been bought from that pack.  But whether this is information that they want to share with the general public is a different matter. 

      Also, retailers do know when packs will be ending soon.  But they'll only get about 1-2 weeks of lead time to gather their tickets so that the lottery rep can come by and pick them up and zero them out of their inventory.  But it also depends on why the game is ending.  If it's because of slow sales, then high volume retailers will often be able to continue to sell them while slower retailers will have their tickets gathered and transferred to the high volume sales store (although this practice is becoming less common).  But if the game is being pulled because all the top prizes have been claimed, then retailers are given an alert to pull the games immediately and cease selling them. 

      I'm not sure what you mean by "total hawk-zones".   The 7-11 allows the players to selectively buy different portions of a pack?  For example, if the next ticket is ticket #50 and the customer wants ticket #79, the retailer will pull the pack, and rip off #79 for them? 

      I'm not sure why a retailer would selectively display certain games and only sell certain games to certain people.  If he needs more emerald 10s, he'll order more.  Turn around time from when you order to delivery is typicallly 2-3 days.  In an emergency the retailer can call their rep and have them bring a few packs the very same day if their rep has some in their vehicle.

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        El Monte
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        October 22, 2014
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        Posted: April 15, 2015, 4:18 am - IP Logged

        Ticket hawking requires a lot of time, dedication, and as well as ideal circumstances to make it work, the hawks also requires the help of the clerk (who took the job for the purpose of hawking and may be friends with the ticket hawk). 

        If the regular players scratch their tickets on the spot at the store and then cashes or throws away the ticket; it is a good place to hawk. The clerk must also keep track of the winnings that come from a certain roll. Since rolls are guaranteed to have a certain winning amount, having tracked a ton of losing tickets makes the decision to buy the rest of the roll very favorable. If they take the risk and buy the first few and get winners from it, they can sell the rest to the others.

        Most stores do not even have a $5,000 winning ticket come their way for an entire year or two, so is it really all that good if one store reserves all the tickets to a hawk? They are part of the gamble as well so it should not really matter at all.

        Wow does this actually go on? 

        I only just recently began to understand that every pack has a minimum amount of winners and how one can take advantage of that.  And I've been selling A LOT of tickets for a very long time.  I guess the realization came recently when one of my players started buying entire packs of the $20 games consistently for a few weeks (as previously mentioned in previous posts).  She kept a very detailed account of her winners, her losers, how much each pack was winning, how many tickets per pack was winning.  It was all very interesting.

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          PA
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          Member #129849
          June 29, 2012
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          Posted: April 15, 2015, 12:54 pm - IP Logged

          As far as I know, there is no "garuneteed minimum", just an average that probably holds pretty close for most packs.

           

          I've never purchased rolls here in pay, but typical a roll will pay back around half of the value of the roll. I've seen rolls

          pay back far less, and of course, rolls pay back far more. But my experience has been that there is no minimum winning

          amount or minimum number of winners.

           

           

          Also, ticket hawking is a lot easier then you think. If you have the bank roll, and the time to invest it's not hard. It's even

          easier if you have connections with the stores/clerks where you like to play. If a guy walks in a plays $200 worth of a $20

          ticket and doesn't win squat, that pack suddenly becomes pretty hot. Most hawks hang around and watch for things like this,

          some have clerks who will tip off a hawk to a pack that has been played down with little winnings so far.

           

          As far as holding packs or new games back for "heavier players", that's crap IMO.

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            El Monte
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            October 22, 2014
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            Posted: April 16, 2015, 1:33 am - IP Logged

            As far as I know, there is no "garuneteed minimum", just an average that probably holds pretty close for most packs.

             

            I've never purchased rolls here in pay, but typical a roll will pay back around half of the value of the roll. I've seen rolls

            pay back far less, and of course, rolls pay back far more. But my experience has been that there is no minimum winning

            amount or minimum number of winners.

             

             

            Also, ticket hawking is a lot easier then you think. If you have the bank roll, and the time to invest it's not hard. It's even

            easier if you have connections with the stores/clerks where you like to play. If a guy walks in a plays $200 worth of a $20

            ticket and doesn't win squat, that pack suddenly becomes pretty hot. Most hawks hang around and watch for things like this,

            some have clerks who will tip off a hawk to a pack that has been played down with little winnings so far.

             

            As far as holding packs or new games back for "heavier players", that's crap IMO.

            I had a player buy multiple rolls of the $20 games and she consistently, without fail, got 10-12 tickets that were winners.  She would generally cash out with $320-350 per roll.  On rolls where she won got a single $500 winner, she would win $7xx, I forget the exact amount.  She kept pretty detailed notes on her winning % per roll, I should ask her to bring it in so I can take a closer look at them.

            I can see ticket hawking work at a store that doesn't have many rolls going at once.  I don't see it being advantageous trying to track the lower denomination games, so I'm guessing most hawks scout and follow the $20 and $10 games, since there are only 30 and 50 tickets per roll.  But all you need is for someone to buy a few tickets from the roll and leave the store and that'll mess up your percentages.   Especially on the $20 tickets since there are so few of them in the roll. 

            But if the rolls are available and the clerk refuses to sell them to you, I would call the California Lottery and have them reported.  They'll be put under investigation and the lottery police (yes there is such a thing) will come and impersonate a regular customer and investigate your claims.

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              California
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              Member #147209
              September 25, 2013
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              Posted: April 16, 2015, 6:18 pm - IP Logged

              I'm sorry but a person really has to have absolutely no life to spend hours in a liquor store or any store playing ticket hawk.  It's laughable to me.  There are so few big winners and they would probably be better served getting a real job and making some real money rather than live in some sort of fantasty world.  Good grief.  I read stories constantly where the winners spend money that it's obvious they didn't really have and it makes me just wonder how many people go broke doing the same thing for every 1 person who wins something? 

              Don't mean to be overly cruel but the lottery in general is just a hobby.  Lose a few and move on.  No different than Vegas.  Buy some tickets, scratch them while you have coffee and then go have a productive day.  In some cases, it's just facilitating addictive personalities and not healthy.

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                PA
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                Posted: April 17, 2015, 9:33 am - IP Logged

                I'm sorry but a person really has to have absolutely no life to spend hours in a liquor store or any store playing ticket hawk.  It's laughable to me.  There are so few big winners and they would probably be better served getting a real job and making some real money rather than live in some sort of fantasty world.  Good grief.  I read stories constantly where the winners spend money that it's obvious they didn't really have and it makes me just wonder how many people go broke doing the same thing for every 1 person who wins something? 

                Don't mean to be overly cruel but the lottery in general is just a hobby.  Lose a few and move on.  No different than Vegas.  Buy some tickets, scratch them while you have coffee and then go have a productive day.  In some cases, it's just facilitating addictive personalities and not healthy.

                Some people just have wayyyy to much time and money on their hands.

                 

                For a smalll town in a relatively poor area, there are a few people who spend absurd amounts of time

                and money each day on the lottery. There are people who literally play hundreds of dollars worth on an

                almost daily basis. They're almost this little "group", that go around from store to store and just spend

                sick amounts of money.

                 

                Who knows how they got it, or why they choose to spend it that way but my gut feeling is that they just

                have way too much time and money to go around. Oh well Lurking

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                  Posted: April 17, 2015, 1:22 pm - IP Logged

                  Wish there was a feature to respond to multiple posts, but might as well do it all at once.

                  The California Lottery seems to follow the same regulations with scratchers or scratch off tickets as the other states.  On an earlier post, when tickets are circulated, a top prize needs to be included as well but the CA Lottery does not know the exact ticket but knows it falls within the exact range. They keep track of where each ticket set gets distributed to. Usually the number of tickets sold and the top prize claimed ratio are consistent, but the CA lottery is not responsible for lost or thrown away tickets that may be a big winner. It does not matter if the game ends early with top prizes remaining, people fret too much over it but there will always be more coming.

                  There is a roll minimum payback requirement of somewhere in 30-40% range, so ticket hawking is based on that premise. Ticket hawking on a high level is pretty much professional gambling. The reason people choose not to pursue it is that scratchers carry a high risk of ruin even for those with thousands of dollars to spend. These lottery jackpots are funded by many many losers, ticket hawks included. Poker is no different, not everyone will be successful; for every one Phil Ivey, Daniel Negreanu, and Chip Reese, there are several thousand losers who contribute to their prize money.

                  Like in the past, Jon D stated all it takes is for people to take their scratch off tickets outside of the store and scratch it off private for ticket hawking to be difficult.

                  It will be hard for ticket hawks to top the legendary Joan Ginther.

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                    Los Angeles
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                    Posted: April 19, 2015, 3:56 am - IP Logged

                    I really only read this forum from my (android) phone. So im not able to reply until i get on a computer...

                    -There may be 1 or 2 employees at the 7-11 i was talking about that are paying extra attention to ticket numbers and wins. But for thee most part i do not believe the employees are in on any hawking scheme. I was talking about players at this location. Maybe i got the species wrong. Ha! I should call them vultures i guess?

                    I would say GetReal720  and OCScratchDevil  explained basically what i meant by "hawking". and i totally agree with the view of OCScratchDevil  on people attempting to win by hanging out all day around places that sell scratcehrs in order to "keep an eye" on what's being sold, who's winning, etc...

                    I always go to my car to scratch my ticket/s. If i see a for sure hawk/vulture/whatever i'll just drive off and cash-in later :)
                    it's not worth it to go in and cash tix when these types are around. they'll just ruin any potential fun i could have had. these types are so aggro that i have to ask a couple times usually just to slip in and scan my fantasy 5 tix, as they huddle around the ticket checking machine. its not just 1 or 2 people its a prevailing mentality with many different players at this 7-11
                    (the 1 or 2 times i scratched a ticket quickly in-store at this 7-11 is when i fell victim to the hawks)

                    -as for the roll of 50x not being displayed...

                    the 7-11 i was talking about has room for 25 games last i counted. Maybe they just had a deal worked out that it would be more worth it to sell the entire roll of 50x cash, then to break one open and lose that customer who wants the whole roll? I dunno i just wanted to see the game, as i was no longer buying tix at this spot because of the hawking. obviously they are not supposed to do this at all. Im not trying to get anybody fired from their job. im not contacting anyone at lotto about this.

                    -in response to DGinElMonte  question: "Where did you read that the CA Lotto claims that they have no way of knowing what games retailers have"

                    I emailed calotto with a question and suggestion as to why i can't find certain games and suggested that it would be fairly easy to implement a database much like the ability to use the calotto site to find retailers/lucky retailers. calotto told me they have no way of knowing a retailers inventory. That is in contrast to what you're saying and i already knew it was BS anyways. here is the exact response from calotto: 

                    Thank you for contacting us. Unfortunately there isn’t a way for us to check a retailer’s inventory.

                    Best Regards,

                    Customer Service – CA Lottery (8668)

                    calotto is clearly being deceptive in the response as far as im concerned.

                    companies like target and lowes give you ability to check if a certain item is in-stock, how many are in-stock, and at whichever location you specify.
                    i understand that target and lowes are the retailers and not the product manufacturer/distributor. so if the calotto doesn't want to have a database of this info/function available to they're customers, then is it ok for the retailer to build this themselves? What retailer wouldn't want a online database that could drive customers and sales to there establishment?
                    but im sure calotto would have something to say about that...

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                      El Monte
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                      Posted: April 20, 2015, 6:24 am - IP Logged

                      I haven't said this in awhile so I just wanted to reiterate here:

                      Full disclosure:  I'm a retailer.

                      I think it's unrealistic to expect the CA Lottery to keep a database for the tickets.  We're talking about hundreds of millions of tickets here.  To have it constantly being updates in near real-time would take a massive undertaking.  And per ticket sales aren't communicated to the CA Lottery since the retailers method of inventory tracking (whether electronic or otherwise) is kept in-house and is not shared with CA Lottery.  All they care about is that the retailer received his inventory and that it's been activated. 

                      The thing that IS shared with CA Lottery from the retailer are pack activations.  They need to know this for accounting and security reasons.  But I'm guessing the CA Lottery has their own reasons for not sharing this information with the general public, the most likely being for security reasons.   Also, whichever department you contacted may not have access to retailer inventory.  If you called or emailed them and reached someone who is a customer service rep that caters to the public, that department would presumably not have access to retailer inventory because they wouldn't need it.  But if a retailer called up and their system was down or needed to access to their inventory information and called the customer service number meant for retailers, the rep there should have that info for them.  Now, would a 7-11 be able to call and ask about the scratcher inventory for the liquor store across the street from him, my guess would be no.  So what I'm getting at is, I don't think the CA Lottery is going out of their way to be deceptive.  But I may be bias in my opinion though so...

                      Good luck everyone.

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                        Posted: April 20, 2015, 3:49 pm - IP Logged

                        I haven't said this in awhile so I just wanted to reiterate here:

                        Full disclosure:  I'm a retailer.

                        I think it's unrealistic to expect the CA Lottery to keep a database for the tickets.  We're talking about hundreds of millions of tickets here.  To have it constantly being updates in near real-time would take a massive undertaking.  And per ticket sales aren't communicated to the CA Lottery since the retailers method of inventory tracking (whether electronic or otherwise) is kept in-house and is not shared with CA Lottery.  All they care about is that the retailer received his inventory and that it's been activated. 

                        The thing that IS shared with CA Lottery from the retailer are pack activations.  They need to know this for accounting and security reasons.  But I'm guessing the CA Lottery has their own reasons for not sharing this information with the general public, the most likely being for security reasons.   Also, whichever department you contacted may not have access to retailer inventory.  If you called or emailed them and reached someone who is a customer service rep that caters to the public, that department would presumably not have access to retailer inventory because they wouldn't need it.  But if a retailer called up and their system was down or needed to access to their inventory information and called the customer service number meant for retailers, the rep there should have that info for them.  Now, would a 7-11 be able to call and ask about the scratcher inventory for the liquor store across the street from him, my guess would be no.  So what I'm getting at is, I don't think the CA Lottery is going out of their way to be deceptive.  But I may be bias in my opinion though so...

                        Good luck everyone.

                        Well explained with regards to distribution. I would imagine that all the CA Lottery cares about is the 7-digit ticket pack code to know where a winning ticket came from and know which retailer got which ticket packets which is in the few thousands. The scanning verification of tickets and the 2nd chance losers I think is connected to the scratcher producer Scientific Games or GTECH, with the computer hardware available today, hundreds of millions entries to track is possible. But they do not know where the tickets are, so its a double blind standard.

                        As far as ticket hawking goes, there are more than plenty of other locations to buy scratchers that are free from ticket hawks. Regardless of superstitions, each player is at the mercy of a ticket hawk who knows more patterns (if there are any) than the typical person.

                        To add to my earlier post, the ticket hawk does not need to win $5000 ticket or more since that may not come to a retailer for a year or two. If they get $100 win profit from the ticket hawking investment, I'd say that is a good days work.

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                          San Fran
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                          Posted: April 21, 2015, 6:43 pm - IP Logged

                          I found some really interesting stuff on Scientific Games website.  A nice glimps into what games will be potentialy coming down the road. 

                          http://www.scientificgames.com/Innovation?section=lottery

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                            Posted: April 23, 2015, 1:32 pm - IP Logged

                            I found some really interesting stuff on Scientific Games website.  A nice glimps into what games will be potentialy coming down the road. 

                            http://www.scientificgames.com/Innovation?section=lottery

                            It looks interesting, but I would not count on the CA Lottery to offer most of these ideas any time soon. Our state is well behind other states in terms of quality of lottery games offered. It has only been less than 5 years since the $10 scratchers came out and about 2 years for Powerball, when other states had them for many years.

                            An interesting game concept the CA Lottery is adopting to look out for in late June is the $20 playbook.

                            Next month a new $10 game where it is about matching symbols, than numbers. A 2 in 1 games card concept.

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                              San Fran
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                              Posted: April 24, 2015, 1:44 pm - IP Logged

                              It looks interesting, but I would not count on the CA Lottery to offer most of these ideas any time soon. Our state is well behind other states in terms of quality of lottery games offered. It has only been less than 5 years since the $10 scratchers came out and about 2 years for Powerball, when other states had them for many years.

                              An interesting game concept the CA Lottery is adopting to look out for in late June is the $20 playbook.

                              Next month a new $10 game where it is about matching symbols, than numbers. A 2 in 1 games card concept.

                              What is the 20 playbook?

                                 
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