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How Random is Random?

Topic closed. 174 replies. Last post 1 year ago by ElinaSammy2081.

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new jersey
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Posted: July 24, 2015, 7:53 pm - IP Logged

does  the  random  computer pick  position  1    from   10numbers      position   2 from  10 numbers     and  position    3  from  10  numers..or  does  it  pick all  positions  from  30  numbers        how  does  the  computer  really  work,  and  does  the  computer  know  what  numbers  came  out  prevously?  does  any one  know?

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    Posted: July 24, 2015, 8:31 pm - IP Logged

    Yes, we know that heat and cold will kill a battery. And we know getting distracted leads to injuries. And we know these things through experimentation that has shown it true time and time again.

    In other words, we realize that things that seem random at the time are not so random once we explore the underlying cause.

    In the real world, if an event happens once, we write it off as random. If it happens several times we recognize it as a an anomaly. But there comes a point when it becomes recognized as a pattern, or part of a larger pattern and we have to ask "What is the cause?" "How can we use this?" and even, "Can we use this?"

    Certainly, after a large number of draws we will any game level out, coming closer to the percentages found in the overall matrix. No question. I'd post comparative charts, I'm on an older computer today and those are not available.

    If the question is: "Do the patterns disappear at any point?"

    I think they become better defined. Jade has shown we can run draws through hundreds of billions to tens of trillions with little change in the results. 

    Any time we do the same thing over and over, and get the same results, its no longer random. It part of a pattern. It has a cause.

    Not to take this off course, but here's food for thought:

    The emperor comes to you and offers a wager,

    1) he pulls three numbers from three different, complete ball sets, of which you must match all three, or

    2) he pulls 5 numbers from one ball set, of which you must match three

    If you refuse to play, you will be thrown to the lions. If you don't match all three, you will be thrown to the lions.

    Which then offers the best chance for survival?

    "If the question is: "Do the patterns disappear at any point?"

    I think they become better defined. Jade has shown we can run draws through hundreds of billions to tens of trillions with little change in the results. 

    Any time we do the same thing over and over, and get the same results, its no longer random. It part of a pattern. It has a cause."

    "Random" as you call it, should always be the same, because "Statistical Probability" should always be the same, the possible future probability or probabilities should be the same, but those who run the games might introduce additional "Static", "Interference" or whatever you want to call it, I don't know how that will show on the draws, I don't even know how they would introduce such "static", I just think that it might be possible.

    --------------------

    "Not to take this off course, but here's food for thought:

    The emperor comes to you and offers a wager,

    1) he pulls three numbers from three different, complete ball sets, of which you must match all three, or

    2) he pulls 5 numbers from one ball set, of which you must match three

    If you refuse to play, you will be thrown to the lions. If you don't match all three, you will be thrown to the lions.

    Which then offers the best chance for survival?"

    While it is possible to win playing the minimum possible number of digits or numbers, it might be harder to do than if you play more than one line.

    "Which then offers the best chance for survival?"

    Maybe this one:

    "2) he pulls 5 numbers from one ball set, of which you must match three"

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      Posted: July 24, 2015, 8:43 pm - IP Logged

      does  the  random  computer pick  position  1    from   10numbers      position   2 from  10 numbers     and  position    3  from  10  numers..or  does  it  pick all  positions  from  30  numbers        how  does  the  computer  really  work,  and  does  the  computer  know  what  numbers  came  out  prevously?  does  any one  know?

      For computer generated pick 3 numbers, I don't know how it works, but it seems to me that the computer should not care what or which numbers came out before and it should not have a database of past draws in it.

      And yes, it should in some way pick one digit for the first position out of 0 to 9, a second digit for the second position out of 0 to 9 and a third digit for the third position out of 0 to 9.

      It should NOT pick a complete 3 digit pick 3 number, it should pick the individual separate digits as I said.

      Should, but I don't know how they do it.

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        Posted: July 24, 2015, 8:52 pm - IP Logged

        Prediction-wise I would say "Go with the flow" in other words, "the past draws don't lie", what you see there is what you get, so called "random" should always be the same, but it is possible that the greedy lottery people do introduce undue "interference", so another advice would be "if you can't win don't play"

        ----------

        If I was to talk about "random" and prediction it should have been long ago when I was LANTERN and more or less knew what I was doing, but then I would have had to show how I made my predictions and that was a no no, but I did say how and even in some detail at least once or twice, I think, but I don't remember well, I did want to talk about random and prediction in good enough detail, but I didn't dare do it.

          garyo1954's avatar - garyo
          Dallas, Texas
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          May 2, 2004
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          Posted: July 24, 2015, 9:23 pm - IP Logged

          "If the question is: "Do the patterns disappear at any point?"

          I think they become better defined. Jade has shown we can run draws through hundreds of billions to tens of trillions with little change in the results. 

          Any time we do the same thing over and over, and get the same results, its no longer random. It part of a pattern. It has a cause."

          "Random" as you call it, should always be the same, because "Statistical Probability" should always be the same, the possible future probability or probabilities should be the same, but those who run the games might introduce additional "Static", "Interference" or whatever you want to call it, I don't know how that will show on the draws, I don't even know how they would introduce such "static", I just think that it might be possible.

          --------------------

          "Not to take this off course, but here's food for thought:

          The emperor comes to you and offers a wager,

          1) he pulls three numbers from three different, complete ball sets, of which you must match all three, or

          2) he pulls 5 numbers from one ball set, of which you must match three

          If you refuse to play, you will be thrown to the lions. If you don't match all three, you will be thrown to the lions.

          Which then offers the best chance for survival?"

          While it is possible to win playing the minimum possible number of digits or numbers, it might be harder to do than if you play more than one line.

          "Which then offers the best chance for survival?"

          Maybe this one:

          "2) he pulls 5 numbers from one ball set, of which you must match three"

          We're not communicating. If I take the results of 10 draws, the stats are skewed way out of proportion than if I have 100, or 1000 results. This is the reason I dislike working with a game that has very little data. What you see is going to change over 10, 100, 1000, 10000 draws. To a point more draws is good. After a point they are repetitious "same ol, same ol."

          As RL said we're dealing with a closed set. Since everything is defined by the parameters of the closed set, nothing can be "truly random." 

          Again I agree with RL, it happens quite often you make a projection and the result vary slightly (or greatly) from what you thought. I define it as "something unexpected" that occurred causing a deviation from the projections. Its not random since it is still within the realm of the game. That it happened proves it is possible.

          Still, when that "something unexpected" happens, we can't toss the baby with the bath water. There is the good part that does work to be considered. 

          The second part was an exercise (or an excuse) to think. There is no "real" answer other than your choice.

          My greatest accomplishment is teaching cats about Vienna Sausage. When I need a friend, all I need do is walk outside, pop open a can, and every little critter in the neighborhood drops by to say "Hi!"

            bobby623's avatar - abstract
            San Angelo, Texas
            United States
            Member #1097
            January 31, 2003
            1394 Posts
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            Posted: July 24, 2015, 10:12 pm - IP Logged

            Gary

            I see you guys (adam) making good progress and posting impressive results and it makes me wonder where all the people who used to have some wonderful input has gone.

            Playing of others ideas while sharing our own produces positive results all the way around.

            Good question, Gary

            Sharing seems to have become a foreign word with no real meaning.

            I suspect people who have the lotto smarts to create a workout that pays off now and then have withdrawn from the public arena.
            There are a few publicity hounds in the daily game area, but I suspect people who are winning would rather keep it personal.
            There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that any really big winner is not going to boast about it here. You probably wouldn't.
            I know I won't. In fact, I'll be gone in a New York minute!
            But, I don't play the jackpot games.

            Like you, I'm monitoring the replies to RL's free system.
            You have to wonder how many of the hundreds of folks who downloaded the program are actually trying to use it.
            The law of averages suggest that perhaps one day one of the users of the system will actually come up with a winning combination.
            Be interesting if he/she will describe how it was done - assuming the user can recall how it was done in ways that would help others
            generate a winner.
            I suspect that if there is a winner other than RL, we won't know about it.

            Then there is a big possibility that a lot of lottery system players have decided that lottery gambling with personal picks isn't worth
            the time and effort.

            Your Texas Two-Step charts are impressive.
            You no doubt burned a lot of midnight oil compiling the data.
            I doubt you will set it all aside and get involved with other ideas.
            Human nature says you will continue to do what you are doing, no matter the results.

            I have a workout that pays off now and then.
            I've shared some of the details, but there doesn't seem to be any interest in a plan that requires actual work.
            Seems a lot of folks just want to be led by the hand and told what to play.
            Setting down and coming up with a personal plan isn't something they are capable of accomplishing.

            The random question has been around since the beginning of time.
            Many great minds have tried to come up with a universal definition - and failed.
            State lotteries have the upper hand and are getting rich while we talk in circles about what it is and how it can be used to win.

            I've been active in lottery play for a long time.
            I decided that the mathematical model I pursued for many years was one big waste of time and money.
            I know something about the power of substitution, and have applied that knowledge in creating the workout
            I'm currently using.
            While I'm not a big time winner, as many claim to be, my guesswork is on target often enough to make it all worthwhile.
            Can't ask for more than that.

              RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

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              Posted: July 25, 2015, 12:06 am - IP Logged

              Hi all

               

              Anything more than a QP will require our best guess at some point so a lottery system is only as good

              as the persons ability to guess correctly.  The guessing game only works if it is applied to data that is

              somewhat guessable.    Adam seems to do well but he is a beta tester for many of my programs and

              as such sometimes has years of practice behind him before a program is released for public consumption.

              If the numbers can't be predicted then maybe the digits are.  If the digits can't be predicted then maybe

              try front or back digit groupings.   If these also fail maybe coding the digits will work, etc.....

               

              I have been releasing free software for years and a few have reported JP hits and then they vanish and I

              never hear from them again.  I don't know if these are true or not but I have known Adam for many years

              and he does not make false claims.  Many time he grills me on the use of a tool to the point I sometimes felt

              uncomfortable because I could not give a good answer.   He has trapped a few JP's in very few lines and has

              even posted the results before the draw but to my knowledge he has never bagged one in live play.  I would

              not expect him to say anything even if he has.

               

              I think if a good predictor is every built it will be based on a data-set other than the actual numbers or if numbers

              it will be a non-standard method.  This is just my 2-cents and I am in the same boat a most everyone else, Still

              looking and trying to improve my selections.

               

              RL

              Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

              I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

              they are not.  Many great discoveries come while searching for something else

              USAF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Base_Engineer_Emergency_Force

                US Flag Trump / 2016 & 2020  

                garyo1954's avatar - garyo
                Dallas, Texas
                United States
                Member #4549
                May 2, 2004
                1691 Posts
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                Posted: July 25, 2015, 1:21 pm - IP Logged

                Hi all

                 

                Anything more than a QP will require our best guess at some point so a lottery system is only as good

                as the persons ability to guess correctly.  The guessing game only works if it is applied to data that is

                somewhat guessable.    Adam seems to do well but he is a beta tester for many of my programs and

                as such sometimes has years of practice behind him before a program is released for public consumption.

                If the numbers can't be predicted then maybe the digits are.  If the digits can't be predicted then maybe

                try front or back digit groupings.   If these also fail maybe coding the digits will work, etc.....

                 

                I have been releasing free software for years and a few have reported JP hits and then they vanish and I

                never hear from them again.  I don't know if these are true or not but I have known Adam for many years

                and he does not make false claims.  Many time he grills me on the use of a tool to the point I sometimes felt

                uncomfortable because I could not give a good answer.   He has trapped a few JP's in very few lines and has

                even posted the results before the draw but to my knowledge he has never bagged one in live play.  I would

                not expect him to say anything even if he has.

                 

                I think if a good predictor is every built it will be based on a data-set other than the actual numbers or if numbers

                it will be a non-standard method.  This is just my 2-cents and I am in the same boat a most everyone else, Still

                looking and trying to improve my selections.

                 

                RL

                RL, bobby,

                 

                I hope some of those guys did win a jackpot! I would hope it wouldn't lead to not posting here, but if it did, hope they are all happy (nod to ridge if he sees this. Don't think anyone ever determined whether he won or not, but we miss your humor)

                I agree with you again RL, although I'm going to hedge a bit.

                There is no mathematical formula or secret computer program that is will spit out the winning numbers on command. Someone always has the rebuttal "you haven't tried everything." But everything is hard to try when you don't know what you're missing.

                Still a good percentage of the search and destroy part of playing can be done with a GOOD program. Another percentage can be done with a GOOD program like your older DMP.

                I don't know anything about lexis, so I've stayed away from T-Lex. That is the only thing that keeps me from trying it.

                If its anything like DMP it helps you analyze results, make decisions on the numbers, takes the numbers you choose, and makes combinations.

                That's a big part of the work (especially for those using pencil and paper).

                I suspect it will always be necessary to make some conscious decisions on what digits to play. 

                So maybe the closest we can hope for is solving 50%. Maybe the closet is to know 3 of the digits coupled with dumb luck.

                Would you quit programming if you knew that was it?

                My greatest accomplishment is teaching cats about Vienna Sausage. When I need a friend, all I need do is walk outside, pop open a can, and every little critter in the neighborhood drops by to say "Hi!"

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                  bgonçalves
                  Brasil
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                  June 9, 2010
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                  Posted: July 25, 2015, 5:10 pm - IP Logged

                  It is just one example of a rotating pattern of lottery 49/6 Divided into 4 parts or 4 groups = 12,12,12,13, always 100% Either draw of the groups will have zero or a number, Eoutro group in the minimum condition two numbers, can have more time, knowing this if I play two numbers the group of zero or one will make mistakes and to play a number in the group of two or more will make mistakes too, so to get the standard we make 4 matrices taking one group at a time, gora the problem is how montaras headquarters in coordinates (rows and columns)? Ie one can go so far then is mathematically random, much sensitivity will be needed to use the landlines in several raffles ... 10.20 or more. Yes 01,02,03,04,05,06 has the same chance of 15,18,25,34,38,45, but because of the positions within the central headquarters faxai the coordinate lines will always give more often then some numbers give more than others, because they are in a central position of probabilities, one could use the results to see past the pairs of patterns. (even and odd) and their quantity.

                    RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

                    United States
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                    Posted: July 25, 2015, 6:22 pm - IP Logged

                    Gary

                    There is no way to completely remove the element of chance from our setups.  Like you said, we work

                    on what we can and toss the rest to the wind. 

                     

                    P.S. I would not be surprised if ridge has taken up residence in the local stir. 

                    RL

                    Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

                    I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

                    they are not.  Many great discoveries come while searching for something else

                    USAF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Base_Engineer_Emergency_Force

                      US Flag Trump / 2016 & 2020  

                      RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

                      United States
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                      Posted: July 25, 2015, 7:31 pm - IP Logged

                      Gary

                      Here is some interesting data.  Consider this, lets say that a person could pick one number for my

                      5-39.  It does not matter which position, just one of the five winning numbers.  Each number appears

                      73,815 times within the matrix.  Below are the prize payouts for playing all 73,815 lines.

                       

                      match 2= 23936 * $1.00 =   $23,936.00

                      match 3= 3366 * $10.00 =   $33,660.00

                      match 4= 136 * $250.00 =   $34,000.00

                      Match 5= JP Average           $140,000.00

                      ________________________________

                      Total prizes                         $231,696.00

                      Cost of tickets                    - $73,815.00

                      ________________________________

                      Winnings                            $151,781.00

                       

                      The match 2,3 and 4 prizes total more than the buyout price provided one of the 5 numbers could be

                      selected before the drawing.  The lower prize totals remain the same regardless of the winning number

                      selected.   All we need is deep pockets and one of the five winning numbers, LOL.

                      RL

                      Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

                      I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

                      they are not.  Many great discoveries come while searching for something else

                      USAF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Base_Engineer_Emergency_Force

                        US Flag Trump / 2016 & 2020  

                        garyo1954's avatar - garyo
                        Dallas, Texas
                        United States
                        Member #4549
                        May 2, 2004
                        1691 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: July 25, 2015, 9:58 pm - IP Logged

                        Gary

                        Here is some interesting data.  Consider this, lets say that a person could pick one number for my

                        5-39.  It does not matter which position, just one of the five winning numbers.  Each number appears

                        73,815 times within the matrix.  Below are the prize payouts for playing all 73,815 lines.

                         

                        match 2= 23936 * $1.00 =   $23,936.00

                        match 3= 3366 * $10.00 =   $33,660.00

                        match 4= 136 * $250.00 =   $34,000.00

                        Match 5= JP Average           $140,000.00

                        ________________________________

                        Total prizes                         $231,696.00

                        Cost of tickets                    - $73,815.00

                        ________________________________

                        Winnings                            $151,781.00

                         

                        The match 2,3 and 4 prizes total more than the buyout price provided one of the 5 numbers could be

                        selected before the drawing.  The lower prize totals remain the same regardless of the winning number

                        selected.   All we need is deep pockets and one of the five winning numbers, LOL.

                        RL

                        I added to the minus column this evening.

                        Couldn't find a graphics card for win7 machine locally, which I bought at Home Depot 3 years ago. A new CPU would be $389. Complete new system (including monitor) $427. It qualifies for the upgrade from window 8 to windows 10, so I bought it.

                        I just hope QB64 will run on it.

                        I hate the set it process and then reinstalling all the stuff from the other machine (ugh!).

                        My greatest accomplishment is teaching cats about Vienna Sausage. When I need a friend, all I need do is walk outside, pop open a can, and every little critter in the neighborhood drops by to say "Hi!"

                          RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                          mid-Ohio
                          United States
                          Member #9
                          March 24, 2001
                          19826 Posts
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                          Posted: July 25, 2015, 10:28 pm - IP Logged

                          Gary

                          Here is some interesting data.  Consider this, lets say that a person could pick one number for my

                          5-39.  It does not matter which position, just one of the five winning numbers.  Each number appears

                          73,815 times within the matrix.  Below are the prize payouts for playing all 73,815 lines.

                           

                          match 2= 23936 * $1.00 =   $23,936.00

                          match 3= 3366 * $10.00 =   $33,660.00

                          match 4= 136 * $250.00 =   $34,000.00

                          Match 5= JP Average           $140,000.00

                          ________________________________

                          Total prizes                         $231,696.00

                          Cost of tickets                    - $73,815.00

                          ________________________________

                          Winnings                            $151,781.00

                           

                          The match 2,3 and 4 prizes total more than the buyout price provided one of the 5 numbers could be

                          selected before the drawing.  The lower prize totals remain the same regardless of the winning number

                          selected.   All we need is deep pockets and one of the five winning numbers, LOL.

                          RL

                          Have you tried that on paper for a real 5/39 game before its drawing and had a good result after the drawing? 

                          That couple from Michigan that traveled up to Massachusetts to play its WinFall game certainly have deep enough pockets to travel down to Ohio to play its Rolling Cash5(5/39) game when ever its jackpot reach $450K+ if that even worked 30% of the time.

                          It might be a little more work than they had to do in Massachusetts because they would have to play specific combinations which mean they would have to make out 15,000 play slips.

                           * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                             
                                       Evil Looking       

                            RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

                            United States
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                            March 13, 2008
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                            Posted: July 26, 2015, 7:40 am - IP Logged

                            RJ

                            I use to have a tool that I used to help pin down a couple numbers and the best I can remember

                            it hit quite often.  I don't think I would ever try something like that even if I had the money to

                            throw away.  Unless a person had a few very fast printers it would be hard to fill out that many

                            bet-slips between drawings.

                            RL

                            Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

                            I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

                            they are not.  Many great discoveries come while searching for something else

                            USAF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Base_Engineer_Emergency_Force

                              US Flag Trump / 2016 & 2020  

                              garyo1954's avatar - garyo
                              Dallas, Texas
                              United States
                              Member #4549
                              May 2, 2004
                              1691 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: July 26, 2015, 11:04 am - IP Logged

                              RJ

                              I use to have a tool that I used to help pin down a couple numbers and the best I can remember

                              it hit quite often.  I don't think I would ever try something like that even if I had the money to

                              throw away.  Unless a person had a few very fast printers it would be hard to fill out that many

                              bet-slips between drawings.

                              RL

                               Too rich for my blood.

                              2Step has 59360 four digit combinations. The bonus ball brings it to over 1.5 million. Just won at $950,000, by QP about 90 miles up the road.  Seen it go past a million several times. But the cost always outweighs the jackpot.

                              Need a lot funding to consider that. And then hope the jackpot isn't split 2 or more ways.

                              Cash5 continues to drop. Payouts have been $15000 to $18000 range. Take home would be about 75% of that.

                              qb64 works on this computer. It updated all night and it appears to be doing more now.

                              Compared it to the Windows 8 Gateway I bought last year. That one has been sitting on the drafting table just in case my son needed a emergency computer. Both machines identical in placement of USB, card reader, ports, plug etc., same number of ports, same everything. Only difference is the start up menu. Both have 500 gig HDs. Gateway has 6 gigs; Acer has 4. Gateway has Radeon graphics; Acer has Intel. Windows 8 starts with the scroll screen mess; Windows 8.1 starts with the desktop.

                              By this evening I hope to have compared individual digits from the results to the universal 4,5,6 digit sets. Maybe something good there. Worked pretty good with Pick3. We'll see.

                              Be Cool Like Fonzie!

                              Be Back Later!

                              My greatest accomplishment is teaching cats about Vienna Sausage. When I need a friend, all I need do is walk outside, pop open a can, and every little critter in the neighborhood drops by to say "Hi!"

                                 
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