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Can prayer affect the outcome of a lottery

Topic closed. 215 replies. Last post 6 years ago by Todd.

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Praying for a lottery win will:

Improve the chances of winning [ 34 ]  [45.95%]
Worsen the chances of winning [ 0 ]  [0.00%]
Have no influence on the chances of winning [ 40 ]  [54.05%]
Total Valid Votes [ 74 ]  
Discarded Votes [ 8 ]  
rdgrnr's avatar - walt
Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
United States
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April 28, 2009
14903 Posts
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Posted: June 2, 2011, 9:10 pm - IP Logged

What took you so long to respond old man? So drunk you could'nt figure out which hand to use to move the whiskey jug from in front of the keyboard? I knew you had a smartarse comment in you, b/c thats exactly what you are. You dont like my paragraphs? Dont get your cousin wife to read em for ya. If i wanted any crap from you i'd squeeze your head. Be gone with you!!!!! Nutjob!!!

Heavens to Betsy!

You're an emotional little guy ain'tcha?

Don't get your lace panties all in a bunch now, princess.


                                             
                     
                                         

 

 

 

 

                                                                                                   

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                            --Edmund Burke

 

 

    Avatar
    Kentucky
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    Posted: June 2, 2011, 9:57 pm - IP Logged

    Yes it did. The problem is there are some members who pride themselves in providing ignorant and degrading responses. And worst yet, they think they are comedians.

    You started the poll so when are you going to give your analysis of the results?

    How about starting with why nobody has voted "Worsen the chances of winning".

      rdgrnr's avatar - walt
      Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
      United States
      Member #73904
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      Posted: June 2, 2011, 10:17 pm - IP Logged

      You started the poll so when are you going to give your analysis of the results?

      How about starting with why nobody has voted "Worsen the chances of winning".

      Maybe he should have prayed that he didn't "forget" to buy the tickets and then "accidentally lose" everybody's money in his lottery pool.

      Maybe he should call it the Bernie Madoff Pool.


                                                   
                           
                                               

       

       

       

       

                                                                                                         

      "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                  --Edmund Burke

       

       


        United States
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        Posted: June 2, 2011, 10:53 pm - IP Logged

        In light of the recent discussions about the affect of prayer on the outcome of a lottery draw, I am curious to what the average person thinks. I am more interested in the vote outcome rather than the rationale behind the vote. But if there is a discussion, please try to keep it civil.

        Thanks

        Many years ago an anthropology professor related to our class something that occured in the village where he did his doctoral research in the '50s.  The social structure there included a Shaman, or "Medicine Man," who the people could go to for help if they were sick, but also to make requests of him for help in other areas.

        A young man was scheduled to soon be married, but another young man was jealous and wanted the woman for himself.  As it turns out, the jealous man was the nephew of the Shaman, and close to him.  So he convinced his uncle to put a spell (some call it a "hex") on the groom to be, to ensure the wedding would not take place.  The Shaman predicted that the groom would become very ill on his wedding day and if he insisted on going through with the wedding anyway, he might never recover.  Word spread around the village of the spell and by the day in question, everyone knew, including the groom.

        Sure enough, on the morning of his wedding the young man became so ill and so fearful that he might die, that he and his family called off the wedding indefinitely.

        This spell wasn't exactly "prayer" as Christians describe it, but it's essentially that.  My professor discussed other things that occured within the village involving the Shaman, and he included his observations as part of his dissertation.  In general, what he learned was that almost without exception, whatever the Shaman declared would happen to a large extent.  However, what was necessary for the spells to work was that THE OBJECT OF THE SPELL (the groom in the above case) HAD TO KNOW THAT THEY WERE TARGETTED!!  In the cases where he was fairly sure the target was unaware, the results were not predictable.

        So, when there is strong belief in prayer, and awareness of its application, it can definitely have an effect on PEOPLE and their behaviour.  However, I think it's doubtful prayer can have any effect on those ping pong balls! Smile


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          Posted: June 2, 2011, 11:42 pm - IP Logged

          Many years ago an anthropology professor related to our class something that occured in the village where he did his doctoral research in the '50s.  The social structure there included a Shaman, or "Medicine Man," who the people could go to for help if they were sick, but also to make requests of him for help in other areas.

          A young man was scheduled to soon be married, but another young man was jealous and wanted the woman for himself.  As it turns out, the jealous man was the nephew of the Shaman, and close to him.  So he convinced his uncle to put a spell (some call it a "hex") on the groom to be, to ensure the wedding would not take place.  The Shaman predicted that the groom would become very ill on his wedding day and if he insisted on going through with the wedding anyway, he might never recover.  Word spread around the village of the spell and by the day in question, everyone knew, including the groom.

          Sure enough, on the morning of his wedding the young man became so ill and so fearful that he might die, that he and his family called off the wedding indefinitely.

          This spell wasn't exactly "prayer" as Christians describe it, but it's essentially that.  My professor discussed other things that occured within the village involving the Shaman, and he included his observations as part of his dissertation.  In general, what he learned was that almost without exception, whatever the Shaman declared would happen to a large extent.  However, what was necessary for the spells to work was that THE OBJECT OF THE SPELL (the groom in the above case) HAD TO KNOW THAT THEY WERE TARGETTED!!  In the cases where he was fairly sure the target was unaware, the results were not predictable.

          So, when there is strong belief in prayer, and awareness of its application, it can definitely have an effect on PEOPLE and their behaviour.  However, I think it's doubtful prayer can have any effect on those ping pong balls! Smile

          Some may call it prayer, and some in the scientific community may call it Quantum Physics, which can influence non-living objects. Since there is an interconnection to all things though space and time, also known as non-locality, then it may be possible to influence ping pong balls. or, If it can't influence the balls, then it may allow the observer to see future events since time is an illusion in my opinion, therefore predict some or most of the numbers not drawn yet.

           

           In another angle, the story you mentioned is remarkably close to an experiment I conducted when I was a teenager. I was playing pool with my best friend when all of a sudden I decided to convince him through repeated claims that I knew that I was going to win this game. I never thought it would work, but If i remember correctly, i did win 3 or 4 times in a row.

          Considering we were both on the same level in our pool playing experience, it was either luck that I won, or it was because he started to believe what I was saying over and over as we were playing.

          At the end I told him what I was doing but he din't think that was the cause. But I didn't agree because I could tell that his playing style was being affected with poor shots.

            visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
            light on my feet
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            Member #356
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            Posted: June 2, 2011, 11:46 pm - IP Logged

            I actually agree with you.  If a person wants to be a religious fanatic or a 100% atheist, that should be their own private business.

            Any post with the words God, Jesus, prayers or other religious connotations should be deleted.  I don't want to read  "God luck" "God created the box bet" "I will keep you in my prayers" "I'm praying for a win" "need some prayers" "God bless America" "God bless them" "May God show love" "thank God I got my money the other day" "God Children" 

            I didn't make those up, those are all phrases from actual posts here at LP found with a search.  When I did a search for atheist, only one page came up with 6 posts, nonetheless, keep God or lack of God to yourselves or in your blogs and stick with lottery, gambling and math in the forums.

            i got to thinking about this rambling demand,  and it reminded me of the "why" i have to do what i do in here,  when i need to.

            i could care less if everyone has 180degree's opposite beliefs as i do.

            although my beliefs are strong,  i don't have the need to defend them with voracity,  until guys like truecritic attempt to pull thier "silence" of other peoples belief systems,  just because he doesn't like it.

            you don't believe in God,  or the idea of it kicked around in here, fine. 

            you want to slice open idealogies about how people come to their beliefs during a lottery pursuit,  that's more than fair.

            but if you think it's acceptable to be a sarcastic jerk to people who DO believe,  just because you don't,  your mistaken.

            your above archived ramble is nothing more than a bullying attempt at shutting down something you don't like.

            what's awefully telling of your motive,  is that why are you even reading / posting in a thread with a title like this anyway, since it bothers you so much......what ARE you even reading it for ?

            if you don't like the subject matter,  fine.     plenty of places where you can play at LP.   go somewhere else

            remember......so long as i am in here,  there isn't a chance your going to relegate the discussion of God off any thread,  so long as it's commensurate with the thread's origination.

            but,  depending how large your ego thinks it is,  you are welcome to keep trying.

            you or anyone else that doesn't "believe",  question all you want,  but do it respectfully

            otherwise "bad visiondude" needs to come out and defend the right to talk about "beliefs" EQUALLY

             it's what i do (ONLY when i need to)...

            btw,  maybe truecritic can explain to the board why he doesn't bother to chide joker,  when joker sprays the board with anti-god stuff.   that convo includes "god".

            that must be ok with truecritic,  because it's "anti-god"

            hypocrite 101 Red Devil

                        "i am .........."meant to"       

            P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                     until further notice,  it's  france everyday


              Canada
              Member #68663
              December 27, 2008
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              Posted: June 3, 2011, 12:27 am - IP Logged

              visiondude, I do not agree with everything you write but I do whole heartedly agree with one thing you write. That is, we need to discuss ideas with respect towards other members. Respect is very important to me and it appears also to be be important to you.

              You point out that some of the non-religious members are not being respectful. It is also important to point out though, that some members that profess to be religious (that is, strong belief in God) are extremely disrespectful to other members. I do not know of any religion that promotes or condones disrespect.

              So I ask you, how does a person who claims to be religious continue to display disrespectful behavior?

                visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                light on my feet
                United States
                Member #356
                May 20, 2002
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                Posted: June 3, 2011, 12:28 am - IP Logged

                Ok, I read it, and it's laughable at best. His stipulations can only be met If God himself came down and proved it....lol

                I'll tell you what, I'll send him the videos I uploded in my blog which proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Christianity was derived out of a Pagan beliefs. If he doesn't feel it's good enough, then he's an idiot. The parrallels are undeniable.

                If anything, you should watch the first video in the link. It clearly explains everything for you. But I know you won't watch it because you don't want to know the truth. That will shatter everything you've been indoctrinated with since you were a kid.

                Facts don't lie....

                "laughable"?     so laughable that far more brilliant minds than you will ever possess still can't remove the $1000 from that guys wallet. 

                the $1000 is still on the table,  so you can "laugh" all you want

                the dude is so straight up legit with the challenge,  he goes so far as to enumerate side by side comparisons of each "myther's" diety lottery picks.

                people in a weak position do NOT do that.   they "hide" information,   or feather parts of it out that only favor them.

                this guy puts all up there front and center for equal comparative purposes

                side by side,  and still nothing.

                the guy doesn't hide anything.

                the guy even goes so far to maintain the integrity of the challenge by listing the various challengers on his website,  and then whoever finally had the ju ju to mix it up with him,   he goes and prints out the would be challengers "challenge",  addressing every question and demonstrating the fact that there isn't any "documented proof" to go along with myther's claims

                look at them,  all listed on the bottom of his website as each one has attempted to extract that $1000.

                still no one can

                "His stipulations can only be met If God himself came down and proved it....lol".

                 that's a straight up misrepresentation / lie.    his "challenge" contains no component of God "appearing",  and is solely based on past performances of Christ and the would be pretenders to Christ.

                past performance against past performance,  so you willfully lied (again) in order to manufacture an excuse

                what ever gives you the idea (still) that you can pull these little attempted manuevers?

                there is nothing in your videos' that you can send the guy,  that will supercede the side by side comparison he has already performed on the same exact subject matter.

                if your ego tells you to,  go ahead,  but it's already chronicled that far better men than you have tried and come up short.

                somehow you think you have something the guy hasn't covered,  and dispelled, and now you think your on your way to a sure $1000 Green laughGreen laugh+ Green laugh

                "which proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Christianity was derived out of a Pagan beliefs"

                 well,  that's far more than just a historical "misrepresentation"......that also is a lie

                what you forget,  or maybe even feign a memory loss on history,  is not only are talking pretenders to the accomplishments of Christ post Christ,   you fail to accept that biblical recorded history predates all the would be "pretenders".

                call the bible what ever you like since you are not concerned with eternity based decisions,  but one fact stands alone,  and that is that the bible is recorded history.   

                trackable time line based history that includes pre recorded events that supercede the time line of all your "contenders".

                what is stunningly awesome,  is God telling His creation thru men what He would do centuries before He did it,  and doing it with 100% accuracy.

                that pre recorded historical fact joker,  is something a blog full of contentious people can't even collect an "easy" $1000 from.

                to be succinct at the end here......what will "shatter my beliefs" exactly?

                the fact that you or no one else can take the $1000 from this guy?

                do that,  and show us the check,   then you can flaunt your "proof"

                till then you will only continue to guess,  and one things for sure...."guesses" aren't redeemable in eternity

                if there is a God,  He will be insulted you only threw a rediculous guess at Him,  and then demanded He give you a new zip code

                go back up your arrogance and get that $1000 and bring it here

                            "i am .........."meant to"       

                P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                         until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                  truecritic's avatar - PirateTreasure
                  Michigan
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                  September 24, 2005
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                  Posted: June 3, 2011, 12:30 am - IP Logged

                  i got to thinking about this rambling demand,  and it reminded me of the "why" i have to do what i do in here,  when i need to.

                  i could care less if everyone has 180degree's opposite beliefs as i do.

                  although my beliefs are strong,  i don't have the need to defend them with voracity,  until guys like truecritic attempt to pull thier "silence" of other peoples belief systems,  just because he doesn't like it.

                  you don't believe in God,  or the idea of it kicked around in here, fine. 

                  you want to slice open idealogies about how people come to their beliefs during a lottery pursuit,  that's more than fair.

                  but if you think it's acceptable to be a sarcastic jerk to people who DO believe,  just because you don't,  your mistaken.

                  your above archived ramble is nothing more than a bullying attempt at shutting down something you don't like.

                  what's awefully telling of your motive,  is that why are you even reading / posting in a thread with a title like this anyway, since it bothers you so much......what ARE you even reading it for ?

                  if you don't like the subject matter,  fine.     plenty of places where you can play at LP.   go somewhere else

                  remember......so long as i am in here,  there isn't a chance your going to relegate the discussion of God off any thread,  so long as it's commensurate with the thread's origination.

                  but,  depending how large your ego thinks it is,  you are welcome to keep trying.

                  you or anyone else that doesn't "believe",  question all you want,  but do it respectfully

                  otherwise "bad visiondude" needs to come out and defend the right to talk about "beliefs" EQUALLY

                   it's what i do (ONLY when i need to)...

                  btw,  maybe truecritic can explain to the board why he doesn't bother to chide joker,  when joker sprays the board with anti-god stuff.   that convo includes "god".

                  that must be ok with truecritic,  because it's "anti-god"

                  hypocrite 101 Red Devil

                  I hope you can sincerely understand this.  I am making this one exception of communicating with you again.  I have no real problem with you or anyone discussing whatever they want here.  However, when it gets out of hand - it is distracting and worse. 

                  Let me address your first statement..."rambling demand."  A) Those aren't demands.   B) It wasn't my idea.  addai1516 came up with it.  I only agreed it would be a good idea to move these arguments to the blogs.  Something that Todd already does for many, many things not lottery related.  It doesn't silence you or Joker or others.  If you don't like the idea, fine by me.  It's Todd's site, not mine, I only responded to a suggestion. Your vote is no.  No argument.

                  addai1516's post:

                  http://www.lotterypost.com/thread/232208/2081282

                   

                  "you don't believe in God,  or the idea of it kicked around in here, fine." 

                  Only when the kicking gets out of hand - and that seems to happen often.  I don't want to hear arguments about religion OR lack of religion.  That means it includes the atheist side as well.  My exact quote ("keep God or lack of God to yourselves or in your blogs and stick with lottery, gambling and math in the forums.")  My religious beliefs are personal - I am not posting them on the net.

                  That isn't a demand, that is exactly what addai proposed and I am agreeing with him(her?).

                   

                  "that must be ok with truecritic,  because it's 'anti-god' "

                  Nope and that isn't the reason.


                    Canada
                    Member #68663
                    December 27, 2008
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                    Posted: June 3, 2011, 12:32 am - IP Logged

                    You started the poll so when are you going to give your analysis of the results?

                    How about starting with why nobody has voted "Worsen the chances of winning".

                    I think the results are self evident, but here goes.

                    Most people think praying does not help.

                    Many people think praying does help.

                    But nobody thinks that praying will hurt your chances. Nobody believes in a vengeful God. That is, a God who will make you lose because you prayed for a selfish pursuit.

                      visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                      light on my feet
                      United States
                      Member #356
                      May 20, 2002
                      2744 Posts
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                      Posted: June 3, 2011, 12:53 am - IP Logged

                      visiondude, I do not agree with everything you write but I do whole heartedly agree with one thing you write. That is, we need to discuss ideas with respect towards other members. Respect is very important to me and it appears also to be be important to you.

                      You point out that some of the non-religious members are not being respectful. It is also important to point out though, that some members that profess to be religious (that is, strong belief in God) are extremely disrespectful to other members. I do not know of any religion that promotes or condones disrespect.

                      So I ask you, how does a person who claims to be religious continue to display disrespectful behavior?

                      i make no apologies for myself,  or anyone else,  when i / they act outside the bounds of common decentcy,  inside and outside religious "beliefs".

                      it is well documented here that a couple of times i have let my anger get the best of me,  and channeled that in a way that takes a detour from what i "preach".

                      i pick truth,  i don't pick people or agenda over truth,  hence i made a purposeful notation that i didn't agree with everything ridge said when handling his anger when it comes to people being sarcastic jerks when they come across something about "god" at LP,  thus demonstrating that i pick truth over people. 

                       i have mad respect for ridge, and he would probably tell you he doesn't agree with everything i say neither......but the crux of his get down to business so people don't get the idea that they can bully people into NOT discussing beliefs of God.....that was way "righteous"

                      i bathed in his bravado to take a stand,  to let people know enough is enough.

                      if a person doesn't believe,  or doesn't like it,  fine......change the channel.

                      i do applaude the fact that ridge did what other believers in here don't have the guts to do....and that's to defend the right TO talk about God.

                      to answer your question the best i can......NO ONE ever lives fully up to anything.   any idealogy is eventual broken on the effort vs ethics scale......because we are all  infalliable people. 

                      everyone eventually acts outside the boundaries of perfection,  but that never negates an ideal or a standard just because someone can't forever live perfectly to it.

                      last,  i don't come here to cram what i believe down anyones throat,  but one thing precedes a certain storm,  and that is when someone (or "many") challenge my right (and everyone else's right) to talk freely about God and lottery relational discussions, they are going to get what they came for.

                      when that happens,  i will make a concerted effort to holster my anger,  but you can bet short of that there will be a situational wrestling match to make sure no one can bully the discussion of "god" off of LP.

                      that's why i am an advocate for respect.   ditch "respect",  and take the first jerk shot over the bow,  and it's on

                      does that explain what you were looking for?

                      VISION

                                  "i am .........."meant to"       

                      P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                               until further notice,  it's  france everyday


                        United States
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                        June 1, 2009
                        5345 Posts
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                        Posted: June 3, 2011, 12:54 am - IP Logged

                        "laughable"?     so laughable that far more brilliant minds than you will ever possess still can't remove the $1000 from that guys wallet. 

                        the $1000 is still on the table,  so you can "laugh" all you want

                        the dude is so straight up legit with the challenge,  he goes so far as to enumerate side by side comparisons of each "myther's" diety lottery picks.

                        people in a weak position do NOT do that.   they "hide" information,   or feather parts of it out that only favor them.

                        this guy puts all up there front and center for equal comparative purposes

                        side by side,  and still nothing.

                        the guy doesn't hide anything.

                        the guy even goes so far to maintain the integrity of the challenge by listing the various challengers on his website,  and then whoever finally had the ju ju to mix it up with him,   he goes and prints out the would be challengers "challenge",  addressing every question and demonstrating the fact that there isn't any "documented proof" to go along with myther's claims

                        look at them,  all listed on the bottom of his website as each one has attempted to extract that $1000.

                        still no one can

                        "His stipulations can only be met If God himself came down and proved it....lol".

                         that's a straight up misrepresentation / lie.    his "challenge" contains no component of God "appearing",  and is solely based on past performances of Christ and the would be pretenders to Christ.

                        past performance against past performance,  so you willfully lied (again) in order to manufacture an excuse

                        what ever gives you the idea (still) that you can pull these little attempted manuevers?

                        there is nothing in your videos' that you can send the guy,  that will supercede the side by side comparison he has already performed on the same exact subject matter.

                        if your ego tells you to,  go ahead,  but it's already chronicled that far better men than you have tried and come up short.

                        somehow you think you have something the guy hasn't covered,  and dispelled, and now you think your on your way to a sure $1000 Green laughGreen laugh+ Green laugh

                        "which proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Christianity was derived out of a Pagan beliefs"

                         well,  that's far more than just a historical "misrepresentation"......that also is a lie

                        what you forget,  or maybe even feign a memory loss on history,  is not only are talking pretenders to the accomplishments of Christ post Christ,   you fail to accept that biblical recorded history predates all the would be "pretenders".

                        call the bible what ever you like since you are not concerned with eternity based decisions,  but one fact stands alone,  and that is that the bible is recorded history.   

                        trackable time line based history that includes pre recorded events that supercede the time line of all your "contenders".

                        what is stunningly awesome,  is God telling His creation thru men what He would do centuries before He did it,  and doing it with 100% accuracy.

                        that pre recorded historical fact joker,  is something a blog full of contentious people can't even collect an "easy" $1000 from.

                        to be succinct at the end here......what will "shatter my beliefs" exactly?

                        the fact that you or no one else can take the $1000 from this guy?

                        do that,  and show us the check,   then you can flaunt your "proof"

                        till then you will only continue to guess,  and one things for sure...."guesses" aren't redeemable in eternity

                        if there is a God,  He will be insulted you only threw a rediculous guess at Him,  and then demanded He give you a new zip code

                        go back up your arrogance and get that $1000 and bring it here

                        If you're not satisfied with what the videos have to say, If you even bothered to watch them, and say they are historical misrepresentations, then you truly are a lost cause.

                        You are in total denial because you think the Bible is the end all to everything. You can't prove anything in that book...period !

                        And seeing that you don't take any of what the videos say seriously, your 1,000 dollar buddy won't either, because you're both in denial.

                        Producing information outside the Bible means absolutely nothing to you. If it's not from a verse here or there it's just false.

                        Man o man, how closed minded can the multitudes possibly be??????????

                        I knew I should've never srestart this B.S. with you because it's simply futile.

                        I'll just let you ramble on and on for the next few pages while you accuse me of running away doing a MJ move or whatever. I'm too tired of talking to a wall.

                        Have a nice life....!

                          visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                          Posted: June 3, 2011, 1:14 am - IP Logged

                          I hope you can sincerely understand this.  I am making this one exception of communicating with you again.  I have no real problem with you or anyone discussing whatever they want here.  However, when it gets out of hand - it is distracting and worse. 

                          Let me address your first statement..."rambling demand."  A) Those aren't demands.   B) It wasn't my idea.  addai1516 came up with it.  I only agreed it would be a good idea to move these arguments to the blogs.  Something that Todd already does for many, many things not lottery related.  It doesn't silence you or Joker or others.  If you don't like the idea, fine by me.  It's Todd's site, not mine, I only responded to a suggestion. Your vote is no.  No argument.

                          addai1516's post:

                          http://www.lotterypost.com/thread/232208/2081282

                           

                          "you don't believe in God,  or the idea of it kicked around in here, fine." 

                          Only when the kicking gets out of hand - and that seems to happen often.  I don't want to hear arguments about religion OR lack of religion.  That means it includes the atheist side as well.  My exact quote ("keep God or lack of God to yourselves or in your blogs and stick with lottery, gambling and math in the forums.")  My religious beliefs are personal - I am not posting them on the net.

                          That isn't a demand, that is exactly what addai proposed and I am agreeing with him(her?).

                           

                          "that must be ok with truecritic,  because it's 'anti-god' "

                          Nope and that isn't the reason.

                          truecritic,  don't bother wasting your time (and the boards time) trying to sell yourself as a guy that picks the middle road,  the purveyor of all things "ethical" in here.

                          that's a well documented joke.

                          you are one of the people that tends to think your the situational police when the discussion becomes something you don't like, or don't agree with..........THEN truecritic crawls out into the open to squelch the noise,  or a feeble attempt thereof.

                           just who do you think you really are,  some kind of voice of balance?    that's an ethical hypocrisy

                          there isn't one instance in any thread where this subject matter was broached,  where your first move was going after people who assailed religious beliefs ad hominem,  especially noted after THEY fired the first shot and started the whole mess.

                          you have never said a word to them,  and you have only come after Christians,  claiming they are the ones that committed "rules violations" in here.

                          save your ethics speech for mindless people who have a psychotic disposition to pick agenda / people over truth

                          it's perfectly clear you have one "agenda"

                          unlucky for you,  my forte is making that glaringly obvious

                          and.......since you purposefully lied about my character time and time again,  maybe you can throw the reasoning of why that's 'acceptable' into your situational ethics speech.     you know,  to validate your point and all

                          innocent suggestion my good 2 eyes...

                                      "i am .........."meant to"       

                          P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                                   until further notice,  it's  france everyday


                            Canada
                            Member #68663
                            December 27, 2008
                            260 Posts
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                            Posted: June 3, 2011, 1:21 am - IP Logged

                            i make no apologies for myself,  or anyone else,  when i / they act outside the bounds of common decentcy,  inside and outside religious "beliefs".

                            it is well documented here that a couple of times i have let my anger get the best of me,  and channeled that in a way that takes a detour from what i "preach".

                            i pick truth,  i don't pick people or agenda over truth,  hence i made a purposeful notation that i didn't agree with everything ridge said when handling his anger when it comes to people being sarcastic jerks when they come across something about "god" at LP,  thus demonstrating that i pick truth over people. 

                             i have mad respect for ridge, and he would probably tell you he doesn't agree with everything i say neither......but the crux of his get down to business so people don't get the idea that they can bully people into NOT discussing beliefs of God.....that was way "righteous"

                            i bathed in his bravado to take a stand,  to let people know enough is enough.

                            if a person doesn't believe,  or doesn't like it,  fine......change the channel.

                            i do applaude the fact that ridge did what other believers in here don't have the guts to do....and that's to defend the right TO talk about God.

                            to answer your question the best i can......NO ONE ever lives fully up to anything.   any idealogy is eventual broken on the effort vs ethics scale......because we are all  infalliable people. 

                            everyone eventually acts outside the boundaries of perfection,  but that never negates an ideal or a standard just because someone can't forever live perfectly to it.

                            last,  i don't come here to cram what i believe down anyones throat,  but one thing precedes a certain storm,  and that is when someone (or "many") challenge my right (and everyone else's right) to talk freely about God and lottery relational discussions, they are going to get what they came for.

                            when that happens,  i will make a concerted effort to holster my anger,  but you can bet short of that there will be a situational wrestling match to make sure no one can bully the discussion of "god" off of LP.

                            that's why i am an advocate for respect.   ditch "respect",  and take the first jerk shot over the bow,  and it's on

                            does that explain what you were looking for?

                            VISION

                            No, but thanks for trying.

                              joyjoy8's avatar - friends
                              Houston Texas
                              United States
                              Member #371
                              November 30, 2000
                              587 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: June 3, 2011, 1:45 am - IP Logged

                              pardon my long history with DD,  but when he decides to go there...

                              anyway,  most people have the wrong idea of what prayer is,  and how it works (if it does at all).

                              for the believer  prayer is NOT turning God into your personal wish-list ATM machine.

                              prayer IS getting on the same page that God is already on.

                              since he is personal,  He already has a plan in place for our individual lives,  so praying for something to happen without prior knowledge of it going to happen,  you are merely hoping it "will happen",  and predicating upon God to make it happen,  just because you desire it to happen.

                              prayer does NOT work like that.

                              God (if you believe) is to be worshipped,  and the definition of "worship" is to serve Him,  not that He serves us.

                              so it becomes simple within that definition that if it is already in with what God has included in His plan,  then you can guarantee it will.

                              if it is not within his plan.....you can cry, scratch, beg, bargain, trade, whine, complain,  threaten,  and any other number of human manipulation......but it will never happen.

                              you know that saying......"if only they had enough faith"?

                              that's baloney.    you cannot "believe" something into existence for which God never intends to flesh out.

                              if you don't know.....pray......but a "no" is just as valid as a yes.

                              the technical answer to the threads question is no

                              you cannot affect the "outcome" for you or anyone else.

                              all you CAN DO is find out what God thinks about this arena of your life by having a personal relationship with Him ("prayer"),  bowing to His decision making over your life,  and then adjusting to what ever answer He ends up giving you.

                              VisionDude

                               

                              I only have one word for your reply  and that is AMEN

                                 
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