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Praying?

Topic closed. 421 replies. Last post 6 years ago by visiondude.

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Harbinger
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Posted: June 20, 2010, 7:12 pm - IP Logged

And of course, you know this for a fact, right? Of course you do...

 

Yes, of course I do,  we all die. You can't dodge this draft.  Everybody gets an answer.  It is inevitable.

    RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

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    Posted: June 20, 2010, 7:19 pm - IP Logged

    Yes, of course I do,  we all die. You can't dodge this draft.  Everybody gets an answer.  It is inevitable.

    "and we which are alive and remain shall be"

    Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

    I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

    they are not.  Many great discoveries come while searching for something else

    USAF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Base_Engineer_Emergency_Force

      US Flag Trump / 2016 & 2020  

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      Posted: June 20, 2010, 7:37 pm - IP Logged

      I don't agree with everything Christopher Hitchens says, but he does make some good points. His total disbelief in a God is just as unreasnable. He leaves no room for doubt. Even though I agree in some of what he preaches, he is just as bad as those who claim they have the monopoly on truth, like in religion. I hope there is a God, but I'm willing to bet that indeed, If he is a loving and just God, then he's surely not going to punish those who just happen to be born in the wrong part of the planet, and were brought up in different faiths.

      For all I know, If there is a God, and I face him one day, he might congratulate me for standing up and using my brain to understand life while I was living, and not to believe in him out of fear and pressure.  Maybe he'll admire me for having guts to look for what the TRUTH is, despite was being spoon fed to me.  Afterall, If he did give us a brain so we can think hard, invent, learn to be doctors to heal people, to question authority, to examine in detail the many problems facing life, and how to deal with those problems in a systematic way, then what would be the point of God to then turn around and then say....well, even though I gave you a brain, you shouldn't use it when it comes to religion. You can use your brain for everything else, but not this. Don't you see how rediculous that sounds?

      No one knows the mind of God.....But I will ask him why he allowed 20,000 kids to die everyday for decades. Maybe there is a valid reason why, but I don't think it's because 2 humans in a garden named Eden behaved badly, and that was the justification.

      With all due respect Joker, you know that I like you very much! And will never dare disrespect you in any way, In this case,  I must say your thinking is flawed where THE ALMIGHTY GOD is concerned!

      The almighty GOD gave Man  Dominion over The Earth and every living thing HE also gave Man Free Will!  HE IS THE ALMIGHTY GOD! SUPREME CREATOR, HE will not go back on HIS WORD!!! 

      HE Does, not allow 20,000 Children to die everyday,  Man and his greed and Man inhumanity to man does this!

      Evil Florish, I once read, when Good men do nothing! They are too cowardly to stand up and make a difference!

      If the Landlord and Tenants of a tenement building set it on fire,  Does The fire DEPT  ask the architect and builder of that building, why did he allow the building to be set on fire???!!!!

      We are the Landlords and Tenants of this Building called earth.

      forget what "they" say about youWhat you say about you?...

      Now, does it count??

       

       

      *Jr$ina


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        Posted: June 20, 2010, 8:18 pm - IP Logged

        Yes, of course I do,  we all die. You can't dodge this draft.  Everybody gets an answer.  It is inevitable.

        I referring to what you said about the debators being wrong, not dying.


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          Posted: June 20, 2010, 8:19 pm - IP Logged

          "and we which are alive and remain shall be"

          The rapture is nowhere in the Bible. That was created by wishful thinkers.

            RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

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            Posted: June 20, 2010, 8:26 pm - IP Logged

            The rapture is nowhere in the Bible. That was created by wishful thinkers.

            joker

            that message was not pointed at you, read the post above it

            RL

            Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

            I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

            they are not.  Many great discoveries come while searching for something else

            USAF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Base_Engineer_Emergency_Force

              US Flag Trump / 2016 & 2020  


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              Posted: June 20, 2010, 8:37 pm - IP Logged

              With all due respect Joker, you know that I like you very much! And will never dare disrespect you in any way, In this case,  I must say your thinking is flawed where THE ALMIGHTY GOD is concerned!

              The almighty GOD gave Man  Dominion over The Earth and every living thing HE also gave Man Free Will!  HE IS THE ALMIGHTY GOD! SUPREME CREATOR, HE will not go back on HIS WORD!!! 

              HE Does, not allow 20,000 Children to die everyday,  Man and his greed and Man inhumanity to man does this!

              Evil Florish, I once read, when Good men do nothing! They are too cowardly to stand up and make a difference!

              If the Landlord and Tenants of a tenement building set it on fire,  Does The fire DEPT  ask the architect and builder of that building, why did he allow the building to be set on fire???!!!!

              We are the Landlords and Tenants of this Building called earth.

              There is nothing in the Bible about free will. I dare you to find one passage about it. It is man made.

              It's so convenient. When someone survives a tragedy, God is given credit, yet you just said He doesn't get involved.  The poor kids that die have nothing to do with what the supposed sins of the adults and their past behaviors. The inconsistencies just fly in the face of common sense.

              The architect analogy is not a good one. The architect is not God. If God exists, he should have infinite power to do anything. An architect is human. Also, I'm not blaming God for the problems I mention, but as to why I believe that he might not exist, because  the whole concept of a God just passively watching it's creation go down the tubes, just makes no sense. Therefore, he may not exist. I don't know, but what I do know is that the whole idea has so many flaws that it's unlikely a loving God, If he exists, would even start this whole thing in the first place, much less after creating the world, sit back and watch with indifference.

               

              Also about free will, If God is all knowing and omnipotent, then he must know where I will end up. He supposedly says in the scripture that he knew me before I was even born and knows the number of hairs on my head. That must mean that since he exists outside of time and space, meaning he knows the future, he also know that I will end up in hell or heaven. Free will goes right out the window. Why should I care what I do If the ending is already known? Why even create humans If he knows where they'll end up, especially the ones that are doomed, and he knows it? Sorry,  but this whole business is flaky at best. It's like the time travel dilemma. You can't travel in the past and kill your father because you would not then be born and time travel in the past, in the first place.

              Jrosina, I like you too, but we can agree to disagree, and still be friends. No need to creat enemies over something like this that no one has any power over.

                RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

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                Posted: June 20, 2010, 8:46 pm - IP Logged

                The rapture is nowhere in the Bible. That was created by wishful thinkers.

                joker

                Word "rapture", was not used here.  now your using their tactics. LOL

                RL

                Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

                I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

                they are not.  Many great discoveries come while searching for something else

                USAF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Base_Engineer_Emergency_Force

                  US Flag Trump / 2016 & 2020  


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                  Posted: June 20, 2010, 8:50 pm - IP Logged

                  joker

                  Word "rapture", was not used here.  now your using their tactics. LOL

                  RL

                  "and we which are alive and remain shall be"

                  Ok, so what was the above quote you made, referring to?

                    RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

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                    Posted: June 20, 2010, 8:52 pm - IP Logged

                    "and we which are alive and remain shall be"

                    Ok, so what was the above quote you made, referring to?

                    joker

                     

                    when he said we all would die.  How would he explain this.

                     

                    RL

                    Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

                    I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

                    they are not.  Many great discoveries come while searching for something else

                    USAF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Base_Engineer_Emergency_Force

                      US Flag Trump / 2016 & 2020  

                      RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

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                      Posted: June 20, 2010, 9:00 pm - IP Logged

                      joker

                       

                      when he said we all would die.  How would he explain this.

                       

                      RL

                      joker

                      it was directed at jarasan when he said "we would all die."

                      A point on point thing, both cannot be true. when one takes

                      a stand he must choose very carefully  his response.

                      RL

                      Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

                      I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

                      they are not.  Many great discoveries come while searching for something else

                      USAF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Base_Engineer_Emergency_Force

                        US Flag Trump / 2016 & 2020  


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                        Posted: June 20, 2010, 9:06 pm - IP Logged

                        I could sit here and describe all the inconsistencies with not only the Bible stories, but most of the other major religions. But I will point out one inconsistency which has to do with Adam and Eve. I'm using this one because this event is used a lot as an excuse for why the world is messed up.

                        How can God blame Eve for eating the apple? This is what I mean about stories that people just take as truth. Think about it.

                         

                        When she ate the apple, her eyes were opened, and she realized she was naked, and both of them ran and hid in the bushes. Now take a second and think about that for a moment. Once she ate the apple, her eyes opened up, and she knew right from wrong, cause she felt ashamed of being naked. How can God blame her for doing something wrong, which was to disobey God, if she didn't know right from wrong before eating of the apple? If there is a caveman in your living room, and you ask him to flip the lights on in the house with the light switch, would you yell at him for not knowing what a light switch is? Of course not...he didn't know, he was ignorant of the fact.

                        So that story makes no sense. On top of that, how can A God then decide to condemn all of humanity, based on what 2 humans did, while they were still blinded by the lack knowledge of good and evil? And then condemn not only them, but everyone else who is going to be born. That doesn't sound like a just God to me.

                        Didn't he take into consideration that I may acted differently in the same event. I might've actually decided not to eat of the apple. Even God would attest that everyone is different by nature. Not everyone likes beer. Not everyone likes horesradish. Some do some don't. How many people that could've been there in Eden, would make a differnt choice.

                        I've even heard of the defense, that everyone is living in a modern version of Eden, right here where we live now. And we all have the same tree of good and evil to eat from, or not. I don't buy that defense. Adam and eve knew for a fact that God existed. They talked to him. It's not the same. I don't know of anyone that had a conversation with God recently. I mean a one on one chat, with replies in a booming voice...lol

                         

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                          Posted: June 20, 2010, 9:07 pm - IP Logged

                          There is nothing in the Bible about free will. I dare you to find one passage about it. It is man made.

                          It's so convenient. When someone survives a tragedy, God is given credit, yet you just said He doesn't get involved.  The poor kids that die have nothing to do with what the supposed sins of the adults and their past behaviors. The inconsistencies just fly in the face of common sense.

                          The architect analogy is not a good one. The architect is not God. If God exists, he should have infinite power to do anything. An architect is human. Also, I'm not blaming God for the problems I mention, but as to why I believe that he might not exist, because  the whole concept of a God just passively watching it's creation go down the tubes, just makes no sense. Therefore, he may not exist. I don't know, but what I do know is that the whole idea has so many flaws that it's unlikely a loving God, If he exists, would even start this whole thing in the first place, much less after creating the world, sit back and watch with indifference.

                           

                          Also about free will, If God is all knowing and omnipotent, then he must know where I will end up. He supposedly says in the scripture that he knew me before I was even born and knows the number of hairs on my head. That must mean that since he exists outside of time and space, meaning he knows the future, he also know that I will end up in hell or heaven. Free will goes right out the window. Why should I care what I do If the ending is already known? Why even create humans If he knows where they'll end up, especially the ones that are doomed, and he knows it? Sorry,  but this whole business is flaky at best. It's like the time travel dilemma. You can't travel in the past and kill your father because you would not then be born and time travel in the past, in the first place.

                          Jrosina, I like you too, but we can agree to disagree, and still be friends. No need to creat enemies over something like this that no one has any power over.

                          All What you say I accept because I have herd it before! If GOD this, If GOD that! 

                          Believe this Joker, TIME will settle the questions!!!  Once a person's mind is made up not to see what's infront of him so clearly, He will not se It!!!

                          I agree with you to not become enemies, not ever that Joker, Never that,

                          But I reserve the right not to agree, that you disagree... You are too valuable a soul to just let you disagree about GOD Your CREATOR! That is not an option...I must tell you that you are mistaken,  and there is a day when you will face ALMIGHTY GOD and That is the Truth!!!

                          Who you think Created the digits we play around with so much...That said LoL...how about those Triples, I saw them coming for June in my workout sheet...and they are here joker!


                          forget what "they" say about youWhat you say about you?...

                          Now, does it count??

                           

                           

                          *Jr$ina


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                            Posted: June 20, 2010, 9:21 pm - IP Logged

                            All What you say I accept because I have herd it before! If GOD this, If GOD that! 

                            Believe this Joker, TIME will settle the questions!!!  Once a person's mind is made up not to see what's infront of him so clearly, He will not se It!!!

                            I agree with you to not become enemies, not ever that Joker, Never that,

                            But I reserve the right not to agree, that you disagree... You are too valuable a soul to just let you disagree about GOD Your CREATOR! That is not an option...I must tell you that you are mistaken,  and there is a day when you will face ALMIGHTY GOD and That is the Truth!!!

                            Who you think Created the digits we play around with so much...That said LoL...how about those Triples, I saw them coming for June in my workout sheet...and they are here joker!


                            I must tell you that you are mistaken,  and there is a day when you will face ALMIGHTY GOD and That is the Truth!!!

                            I may face him one day, and If that actually happens, I hope he is a God that is a little more understanding than the one that Christians depict. The narrow entry into heaven just doesn't work in the real world. He created different people, so he would naturally be expected tolerate different belief systems, and not condemn them.

                            I don't have to worry about that because I know in my gut, after years and years of dealing with this, that I may not know all the answers, but what I do know, is that all the religions can't be correct, therefore, I don't believe in any of them. I'm spiritual to an extent, but that's it. I'm not gonna say you're wrong, but I also expect, in a perfect world, that others who are religious may one day  do the same, and  not say others are wrong. Someone has to be wrong. They all can't be right...lol

                            Good luck to you....

                             

                             

                              justxploring's avatar - villiarna
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                              Posted: June 20, 2010, 9:22 pm - IP Logged

                              Do you believe in praying?

                              Yes, but not for a winning lottery ticket. 

                              When I was very young I read The Monkey's Paw and it haunted me. Although there have been different versions of the story, it's a horror story written in England in 1902. 

                              For those who don't know the story, it's about the curse of interferring with fate and not trusting the path that has been chosen for you.  To summarize, a monkey's paw is supposed to grant 3 wishes to whoever owns it.   A couple comes into possession of the paw and wishes for a large sum of money.  Their son, who works at a factory, gets caught in the machinery and is mangled to death.  The workman's compensation check is delivered to the parents and, when the father opens the envelope, the amount is exactly what he wished for. 

                              So, do I believe in wishing for good things to happen?  Yes.  But I think prayer is to look at everything you have and ask how to turn your life into something better, how to cope with your pain, how to lift yourself out of a dark, gloomy place and walk towards the light and, if winning a lot of money is one way to get there, then maybe that will be part of the plan too.

                                 
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