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Praying?

Topic closed. 421 replies. Last post 6 years ago by visiondude.

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visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
light on my feet
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Posted: June 23, 2010, 7:44 pm - IP Logged

and lest i lose my memory capabilitity,  and therefore that Christ actually created jonah and in the original language "a monster sized fish) for those of you that think a whale never existed then, etc.

......Jesus Christ claimed He lived BEFORE jonah was ever born

true.  or not true???

            "i am .........."meant to"       

P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

         until further notice,  it's  france everyday

    visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
    light on my feet
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    May 20, 2002
    2744 Posts
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    Posted: June 23, 2010, 9:28 pm - IP Logged

    i just thought of an excellant visual analogy that ties into this discussion.

    in keeping with the .....how does prayer work,  whose "god" actually answers prayer, and the tie in with the "proseperity" angle

    the fake rolex watch...

    fake rolexs have been around for a LONG time.   copying something many claim as being a symbol of value, in order to pass it off as the real thing.  in the beginning (pun intended),  fake rolexes could be spotted easily via their shoddy workmanship,  especially for the terrible quartz movement, rather than the smooth sweeping movement of the 2nd hand a rolex was known for.

    as time went on,  those crafty little fellers in china,  decided they need to up their game "appearance wise" in order to fool the "casual observer", and thereby enabling them to sell more, because now,  you can fool more people.  yay = profits

       now,  fake rolexes are so good,  sometimes even when a mom & pop jeweler opens the back of one,  even he cannot tell (at times, especially the more expensive swiss versions) that the watch is a fake.  shoot,  these guys even sell the watch with an "approved" green sticker and an official looking box.

    the length that some people will go to, in order to pass of a fake, as the "real thing".

    you can get into the ethics of owning a fake. personally, i don't care.  what i would care about, is someone lying about it, and saying it's real, in order to deceive someone,  just so they can sell themselves as something that they "aren't", and worse yet, they sell it to others.

    that part is "unethical".

    anyway,  when mr fake rolex is lying to his buddies that "no, it's real man",   the rolex warranty dude knows for sure it's a fake.

    you cannot fool the manufacturer. 

    your only "hope" to sell copies of the real thing is to make it as close to the original as you can,  so that you can pretend to yourself, and others "you have arrived".   truth will always be,  it's just a fabrication.  not the real thing

    the manufacturer decides what is real, and what is fake.  when your warranty is up,  He will open up the back of your "watch", and He will make the determination that what you bought/sold,  is real/fake.

    do you expect the manufacturer to brag about your watch, and to declare your watch as being the "real thing",  if you bought that thing for $50 in a dark alley off of canal st?

    cults have upped thier game as well, because in all my years,  i have never seen Jesus Christ explained away by being a "DNA one time special synthetic creation".

    if that were true.......what was the explanation DD's particular cult came up with BEFORE science discovered DNA?

    come on.   even common sense scratches that off the validation chalkBORED (sometimes i like to play with words, 4 effect)

    buy the real thing.  don't cheap out, and certainly don't try to front.   people that hold patents on things they sell to make a profit don't take kindly to people who counterfeit.   God is (eventually) the same,  in His character.

    close doesn't count in this discussion, or it's many "comparisons",  because eternity isn't decided with a game of horshoes. ( but a handgrenade will tell you if you had "the fake")

    truth is, Jesus Christ IS the real deal, because the manufacturer has gone to great lengths to make sure (thru pre-recorded history) of how to spot oncoming counterfeit traffic,  so you can swerve out of the way.

    best news,  the "real deal" is FREE.  bought and paid for.  doesn't cost a dime.  which is GREAT NEWS,  because it's pretty evil how greedy rolex is,  for charging that much for a watch. 

    DD,  do you wear a fake rolex?    if you do,  that's only because of "unbelief"

                "i am .........."meant to"       

    P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

             until further notice,  it's  france everyday


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      October 31, 2009
      856 Posts
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      Posted: June 24, 2010, 1:12 am - IP Logged

      You keep asking for proofs on a point and when I reply, you change the topic with new questions. I do not belong or participate in any organization of Christian worship because I cannot stand man’s religion mixed with truth. You think I am just loading a post? Notice how many times I double or triple or quadruple bump? Changing the topic through redirection is a trick of the adversary. You want an answer and I document. You don’t like documentation and accuse me of many things. You are as antagonistic to prosperity as an unbeliever, yet you use biblical myths taught in denominations for credibility. You have a spirit of error. You say what is written is a lie. Types like you are the reason good hearted people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge of biblical truths. What I do enjoy is this opportunity for others to see that religion and the commandments of men are hogwash. Christ taught truth Vs. Tradition. Hold fast to your traditions if you will, but there is no life in that way.

      Nowhere did I say God created Jesus. Nowhere did God, because Jesus was the first begotten Son. Do you even know what that word means? I am sure you have some unbiblical answer but what the book says is more important to me over what some freak says. I am looking forward every day for the parousia and knowing that the bible rejecters and unbelievers will have the wrath of God when I return on the lords day with my Lord and brother.

      If you do not have the Word right, you have nothing. If you do not have your God right, only the counterfeit god will prosper you to make the true God look like a joke. Prosperity started for me the day I believed God’s Word. Would anyone see me as an example of worldly prosperity? Likely not in this country. I have no problem getting answers to prayer and if you think true prosperity is some twisted wrong doctrine, then you do not trust God or His Word. I would not even waste my thoughts praying for you because you say the Word of God is a lie. God says of his word that he magnified it above his name. Psalm 138:2b. You trash it.

      Back to the J.C is God BS. If Christ was the second Adam, was Adam a piece of the Quadinity we should worship? There are two records of his death. First his spiritual fellowship with God followed by physical death. Death is an enemy. Did death have power over J.C. like it did over Adam? Why did not God just fix everything with Adam? Because he broke fellowship with God. Christ did not and legally won a victory over death and the god of this world, the author of death. Why do we not worship the first Adam? Was he just as much god as you think as the second? If Jesus Christ is God and as it is recorded was the second Adam, then Adam would be God too. How come nobody teaches that?

      Jesus Christ is not God no matter how many ways you try to prove it. There is more clear scripture declaring he was the Son of God and the trinity forgeries can be documented and exposed when you study manuscripts.

      I would trust my God any day of the week over yours. I know the difference and you do not.

      The devils and their leader even declare Jesus Christ is the Son of God. They fear his power and those who have the legal right to use that name. The seven son of Sceva tried to do miracles in the name of jesus, but it was not the true jesus they did works by, it was a devil spirit named jesus and a bigger spirit could not be exercised by a lesser. They got a whipp’n by a bigger devil than they had. Get your god right. There are many false signs miracles and wonders done in the name of ‘jesus’. That Jesus and the belief that he is God is the spirit of Antichrist. Many have believed on him as God.

      Time is short, so get your God right. Or, stock up on gold, food and munitions for some kind of last stand in a world that will be immersed in spiritual darkness after Christ picks up the believers. Father God has spared me from the wrath to come via the mediator, the man Christ Jesus.

      1 Timothy 2:5
      For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
      1 Timothy 2:4-6 (in Context) 1 Timothy 2 (Whole Chapter)

      1 Thessalonians 1:10
      And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
      1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 (in Context) 1 Thessalonians 1 (Whole Chapter)

      DD

        visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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        Posted: June 24, 2010, 2:53 am - IP Logged

         nope.  certainly 180degree's NOT antagonistic against prosperity, as it pertains to a relationship with God.  only when someone uses it as a means to turn God into their personal concierge, and ESPECIALLY the false hope message that it's "everyones right".   case in point = YOU. 

         you are the one that is in here touting it as a "biblical right",  yet you just self admitted you aren't benefitting from it as YOU stated .........you stated........."Would anyone see me as an example of worldly prosperity? Likely not in this country".

        that's exactly right DD.  just like i accuretly stated,  it's not a teaching that works in a 3rd world country.  it only does in this country (basically),  because their is EXCESS to be vaccuumed from the desperate. 

        look, don't blame God for your UNBLEIF,  and why you don't have "it" .  blame yourself,  because it's a lie.  has zip to do with "unbelief"

        a brief biblical synopsis of the prosperity angle. 

        prosperity ...ME ME ME ME ME ME (God 2nd).  give me this and that.  ME ME ME ME  (God 2nd). i want this and that.  it is my devine right to have that blah blah blah.    i shouldn't have to live with fianancial challenges - that's of the devil.   the world shouldn't have all the wealth, we should.  ME ME ME ME (God 3rd) it's all about ME and my "circumstances",  if my circumstances are square,  then everything is square.

        and just as soon as the REALLY meanigful circumstances in life hit (and they will),  a life lived on the "ME TRAIN" has nothing in the tank to deal with circumstances outside of them,  because ALL the focus is internal.   (me me me me)

        it's a superficial aimed teaching,  that's destined to fail,  because if that's your focus,  your "faith" is built around circumstances,  instead of based on Gods ability to have your back - in every arena

        true biblical prosperity .......God first (my circumstances 2nd), period.   if i have my priorities correct, and in order, whatever God deals in my life "cards-wise" i am good with (up OR down),  because he is sovereign. period. 

        never is my "right standing"  interdependant on my circumstances in my life (health or wealth), especially as it relates to what i have, what i own, what i could own, where i live,  what i am able to do, what i am NOT able to do.  because not only will those things vasillate up and down (and sometimes WILDLY  during a lifetime),  they are a terrible barometer,  because emotions and circumstances make for a roller coaster of a god.   true prosperity comes in the form of POSITIONAL perspective (God before anything), and STRENGTH.  strength in knowing that NO MATTER WHAT,  God has me........ and...... my life, my peace AND my strength will never be reduced down to whether or not i have this, or that.  either materially, or physically. 

        if it was a "right",  you would have attained it already.  the fact that you haven't, demonstrates your hoping in (and selling) false hope.  worse yet, "biblical mandated" (according to your cultic salesmaship) ----> false hope.  that's the worse kind.   not many (psuedo) Christians can pump out that in depth arguement/information for prosperity, or against the deity of Christ.  the fact that you can,  reveals alot about your knowledge, and if a guy like you can't even attain "it" likety split, who can?   you must suffer from "unbelief" DD. 

        and no, i don't sidestep anything.   if there is one aspect that serves me well about what i do, it's focus.   throw it up there. throw it ALL up there.  the good, bad and the ugly on BOTH sides, and see what settles.   let the observers decide what's left to see.  but let them examine ALL OF IT.

        look at my posts to you.  they are always aimed at streamlining to a conclusion.  that's why i get straight to the meat,  by asking the most confrontive of questions.

         my questioning is perfectly in-line with qualifying (or dismissing) YOUR position.  while you continue to evade simple questions that would streamline this debate,  so we can get to the meat of what you believe,  instead of your intial superficial offerings,  we could actually get to the "comparison shopping" part of this - who really IS God, and who can REALLY answer your prayer(s). 

        look,  i am the last person you wanna accuse of killing off the notion of a person being prosperous before God.  but count on me to make sure no one sells that as a "right",  cuz it ain't.

        come to think of it DD,  you never addressed the health portion of your "prosperity" position.  what happened with that?  is that one just a little too obvious that it isn't a devine right?    did your position suffer from shrinkage after i told you that the prosperity teachers only do "healings" in their buildings, and NONE of them go to clean out the hospitals?   i would run from that one too, if i were you.  and you did

        a qualification.  i TOTALLY believe from what God has stated about Himself,  factoring in His character, His abilities as God to do anything He wants, anytime He wants, His compassion, etc........that God could heal anyone,  anytime He chooses.....and He most certainly can do anything on the scale as far as financial.   but only when He wants,  and if He wants.  as per HIS parameters for your life........and not a ME ME ME ME my life has to be perfectly stable before i have peace - proposition.

        we serve Him.  He is not there to serve us.   therein lies the differance (literally)

                    "i am .........."meant to"       

        P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                 until further notice,  it's  france everyday

          visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
          light on my feet
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          Member #356
          May 20, 2002
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          Posted: June 24, 2010, 3:12 am - IP Logged

          another qualification,  so that what i am putting out there doesn't get all tangled up in this DD web.

          i am NOT bagging on Christians who have a prosperity mindset (per se).  that, in and of itself, is a fantastic thing to possess. believing God can do anything at anytime, is where your heart should be,  24/7.

          alot of Christians short change themselves on all God could do thru them,  because they are either weary from the circumstances of their lives,  or they vasillate up and down because their circumstances change,  or other people are influences upon their solidarity.    look to God for everything.  believe God,  that He can do anything, and that He will see you thru, and He will. 

          but he will do it on His terms,  and your peace will come when you adjust to those terms.

          no,  i am not a "prosperity assasin"  (but i do promote efficientcy)

                      "i am .........."meant to"       

          P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                   until further notice,  it's  france everyday

            visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
            light on my feet
            United States
            Member #356
            May 20, 2002
            2744 Posts
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            Posted: June 24, 2010, 4:33 am - IP Logged

            You keep asking for proofs on a point and when I reply, you change the topic with new questions. I do not belong or participate in any organization of Christian worship because I cannot stand man’s religion mixed with truth. You think I am just loading a post? Notice how many times I double or triple or quadruple bump? Changing the topic through redirection is a trick of the adversary. You want an answer and I document. You don’t like documentation and accuse me of many things. You are as antagonistic to prosperity as an unbeliever, yet you use biblical myths taught in denominations for credibility. You have a spirit of error. You say what is written is a lie. Types like you are the reason good hearted people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge of biblical truths. What I do enjoy is this opportunity for others to see that religion and the commandments of men are hogwash. Christ taught truth Vs. Tradition. Hold fast to your traditions if you will, but there is no life in that way.

            Nowhere did I say God created Jesus. Nowhere did God, because Jesus was the first begotten Son. Do you even know what that word means? I am sure you have some unbiblical answer but what the book says is more important to me over what some freak says. I am looking forward every day for the parousia and knowing that the bible rejecters and unbelievers will have the wrath of God when I return on the lords day with my Lord and brother.

            If you do not have the Word right, you have nothing. If you do not have your God right, only the counterfeit god will prosper you to make the true God look like a joke. Prosperity started for me the day I believed God’s Word. Would anyone see me as an example of worldly prosperity? Likely not in this country. I have no problem getting answers to prayer and if you think true prosperity is some twisted wrong doctrine, then you do not trust God or His Word. I would not even waste my thoughts praying for you because you say the Word of God is a lie. God says of his word that he magnified it above his name. Psalm 138:2b. You trash it.

            Back to the J.C is God BS. If Christ was the second Adam, was Adam a piece of the Quadinity we should worship? There are two records of his death. First his spiritual fellowship with God followed by physical death. Death is an enemy. Did death have power over J.C. like it did over Adam? Why did not God just fix everything with Adam? Because he broke fellowship with God. Christ did not and legally won a victory over death and the god of this world, the author of death. Why do we not worship the first Adam? Was he just as much god as you think as the second? If Jesus Christ is God and as it is recorded was the second Adam, then Adam would be God too. How come nobody teaches that?

            Jesus Christ is not God no matter how many ways you try to prove it. There is more clear scripture declaring he was the Son of God and the trinity forgeries can be documented and exposed when you study manuscripts.

            I would trust my God any day of the week over yours. I know the difference and you do not.

            The devils and their leader even declare Jesus Christ is the Son of God. They fear his power and those who have the legal right to use that name. The seven son of Sceva tried to do miracles in the name of jesus, but it was not the true jesus they did works by, it was a devil spirit named jesus and a bigger spirit could not be exercised by a lesser. They got a whipp’n by a bigger devil than they had. Get your god right. There are many false signs miracles and wonders done in the name of ‘jesus’. That Jesus and the belief that he is God is the spirit of Antichrist. Many have believed on him as God.

            Time is short, so get your God right. Or, stock up on gold, food and munitions for some kind of last stand in a world that will be immersed in spiritual darkness after Christ picks up the believers. Father God has spared me from the wrath to come via the mediator, the man Christ Jesus.

            1 Timothy 2:5
            For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
            1 Timothy 2:4-6 (in Context) 1 Timothy 2 (Whole Chapter)

            1 Thessalonians 1:10
            And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
            1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 (in Context) 1 Thessalonians 1 (Whole Chapter)

            DD

            begotten means "pre-exisistent".   "always has been".  "without beginning". 

            made my case for me.

            just as i stated, and you appolo anton ono'ed right past it,  that Jesus Christ pre-existed as God, as the 2nd person in the Trinity.

            that's why i accurately stated that Jesus Christ created jonah AND that man-sized eating water dwelling leviathon, that decided to give him a jaques coustea (sp) adventure of a lifetime.   shall i quote the scripture that states Jesus Christ created ALL THINGS? 

            Jesus stated in john 8:58 that He was the "I AM".   the same "I AM" that God used as a description of Himself,  when moses asked God what His name was.

            Jesus stated (as the begotten) ......."before abraham was, I AM"...... after the jews had asked Him (in verse 57) that he had "seen abraham".     Jesus Christ stated He was alive BEFORE the prophet abraham ever lived.  how was that possible, DD?

            you won't answer that,  either.    because Christ the begotten, already pre-existed.

            you see, the jews were well aware of terminlogy,  and it's cultural interchangeableness,  in that anything a man said, THAT qualified who he was, and exactly what he meant.  none of this "the true meaning is lost in the sea of political correctness" that we experience today. the jews hung their beliefs on words and phrases,  and they sought to stone Jesus Christ after he made that statement "I AM".

            why?   because Christ had made Himself equal to God with that statement.

            the jews wouldn't seek to stone Him for being "just a man"

            "begotten" = pre-existence

            "Son of God" = God becoming man,  the Deity nature of Christ

            "Son of man" = the human nature of Christ

            "Son of God and "Son of Man" = fully God, and fully man,  so that God could fulfill the claim to "fill all, in all".

            anytime, and everytime the designation "Son of God" was used,  it pointed straight to His deity,  and every use of it was met with either acceptance as such (they knew it meant He was God in the Flesh),  or as Jesus did many times, He challenged those around Him, about "what" they believed about Him.   and NEVER ONCE did He deny that designation when anyone made it,  because anytime anyone ever hinted that what they said contained an element OF worship, Jesus Christ never once squelched that thought, or that designation.

            don't believe me?    ask a modern day jew that can actually tell you what a jew would have understood the usage of that term to maen back in Jesus' day when the term "Son of God" was used.  not "sons of God",  "Son of "God'. 

            you still tonya harding'ing away from my question (if Christ isn't God, according to you),  how revelation makes competeting statements,  one attributed to God, and one attributed to Christ,  where they make the SAME exact worded statement...

            "I AM the Alpha and the Omega.  the Beginning and the End"

            you will make up some other excuse, and then you will blame me.   anyone wanna lay odds on that one?

                        "i am .........."meant to"       

            P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                     until further notice,  it's  france everyday

              visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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              Posted: June 24, 2010, 5:11 am - IP Logged

              back to the worship part,  because if anything seals the deal as Jesus Christ being God,  it's that He was worshipped.

              **********************************************************************************************

              it's 2:00am in the morning,  so i copy and pasted this from a website.  you can sue me if you want,  but i don't own a fake rolex watch.

              Matthew 14:32-33: “And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God.’”

              In a Jewish culture, only the one true God can be worshiped; their actions show that they acknowledged Jesus as being divine. And Jesus didn’t correct them or say, “Don’t you realize that I’m just a mortal prophet? Stop worshiping me!” Rather, He accepted their worship, knowing He really was God in human flesh.

               

              from me, vision ; that would be true.  any comments on that one DD?   that's a really hard one to explain away.   what does your cult tell you to say about these kinds of passages?  i have more.  one more tonight.  i am exhaustiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiD

              *****************************************************************************************

              John 20:27-29: “Then He said to Thomas, ‘Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.’ Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’ Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.’"

              called Jesus "God",  and Jesus never corrected Him.   called Him Lord too.   uh oh DD

              no one has ever called adam "LORD". 

              THE 3 wise men worshipped Him

              so did the angels

              so do we in revelation,  as the Lamb of God

              Worship of Christ.    that ends the 'debate'

              but that statement is only valid if the bible actually IS the "Words of God" to man.

              if joker had thrown out a boat anchor, instead of waving the yellow flag,  we could have proven that as well

              now i remember how much time it took for me to be at LP before.

                          "i am .........."meant to"       

              P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                       until further notice,  it's  france everyday


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                Posted: June 24, 2010, 9:46 am - IP Logged

                I will only bump once here. This took hours, not minutes to compose. As for a BlunderQuest, I will quote the best punch line I ever heard from a movie “He chose ,…poorly”. If I am a minority in this world it is no surprise to me and I “marvel not”.

                 

                1 Corinthians 15:45
                And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
                1 Corinthians 15:44-46 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 15 (Whole Chapter)

                 

                Adam is not God too (or God II, or God cubed -1, Or the almost-Almighty Quint).

                 

                1)”who really IS God, and who can REALLY answer your prayer(s). “

                Both the true God and the god of this world can answer prayers. Jesus was promised much if he worshiped his adversary. Get your God right. Jesus Christ is not God.

                 

                Matthew 4:1
                Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
                Matthew 4:1-3 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter)
                 

                 

                James 1:13
                Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
                James 1:12-14 (in Context) James 1 (Whole Chapter)
                 

                 

                2) “come to think of it DD,  you never addressed the health portion of your "prosperity" position. “

                 

                It was answered. It is the will of God for those who trust in Him to be healed; prosper like they are healthy too. To trust in Him is to trust His Word, not yours. Verse:

                 

                3 John 1:2
                Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
                3 John 1:1-3 (in Context) 3 John 1 (Whole Chapter)
                 

                 

                 3) “but only when He wants,  and if He wants.  as per HIS parameters for your life........”

                 

                Your turn to document that one. Show me where it says that in the bible. My book says that what God is willing to do, He is also able. Do you really know what He is willing and able to do according to His Word? Verse:

                 

                Hebrews 6:16-18 (King James Version)

                 

                  16For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.

                 

                  17Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

                 

                  18That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

                 

                Romans 4:21
                And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
                Romans 4:20-22 (in Context) Romans 4 (Whole Chapter)
                 

                 

                4) “we serve Him.  He is not there to serve us.   therein lies the differance (literally)”

                 

                Part right, but like the Moon which is dead and has no light of its own, it illuminates by reflecting a true light source. Most convincing lies have some truth mixed in, especially in the denominations. Where did you get the idea God will not do if we ask with believing? You talk in terms of His will but you do not know what his will is like many who only think they know what His will is. His Word is good. It is His will. Verse:

                 

                Philippians 4:19
                But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
                Philippians 4:18-20 (in Context) Philippians 4 (Whole Chapter)

                 

                1 John 5:15
                And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
                1 John 5:14-16 (in Context) 1 John 5 (Whole Chapter)

                 

                Luke 11:9
                And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
                Luke 11:8-10 (in Context) Luke 11 (Whole Chapter)

                 

                 

                 

                5) “but he will do it on His terms,  and your peace will come when you adjust to those terms.”

                 

                Yes there is a condition to meet to receive His promises. Believe His Word. God is no respecter of persons, but He does respect conditions.: Believing. Do you know what you can have by believing His Word? How about peace that passeth understanding. Verse:

                 

                Mark 11:24
                Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
                Mark 11:23-25 (in Context) Mark 11 (Whole Chapter)

                 

                Acts 10:34
                Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
                Acts 10:33-35 (in Context) Acts 10 (Whole Chapter)

                 

                Philippians 4:7
                And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
                Philippians 4:6-8 (in Context) Philippians 4 (Whole Chapter)

                 

                 

                 

                6) “begotten means "pre-exisistent".   "always has been".  "without beginning". 

                 

                made my case for me.”

                 

                For you, yes. For me, no. I looked the word up in a concordance. Who taught you that lie? You want to show it to me in the Greek text?

                 

                Begotten: The English word begotten occurs just eleven times in translation (KJV). Not one of the occurrences means as you teach, “pre-exisistent (SP)”. All of the gospel occurrences are translated from the Greek word Monogenes=begotten (Son), only (John 1:14, 18, 3:16, 3:18). The other places this Monogenes is found is Hebrews 11:17 and 1 John 4:9. Monogenes does not mean “pre-exisistent (SP)” . Only born is another English equivalent as is chief. The translators had no idea about genetics. God did. He does not mince words.

                 

                The other English begottens in the book:

                 

                *Lev. 11:18 Hebrew; Moledeth=birth

                 

                *Judg. 8:30 Hebrew; yatsa= To go out

                 

                *Begotten, first- Greek; prototokos= First born

                 

                     Hebrews 1:6

                 

                     Revelation 1:5

                 

                *Begotten, to be- Hebrew; yalad=To be born

                 

                     Deuteronomy 23:8

                 

                You are wrong again in spades.

                 

                     

                 

                7) “Jesus stated in john 8:58 that He was the "I AM".   the same "I AM" that God used as a description of Himself,  when moses asked God what His name was.

                 

                Jesus stated (as the begotten) ......."before abraham was, I AM"...... after the jews had asked Him (in verse 57) that he had "seen abraham".      Jesus Christ stated He was alive BEFORE the prophet abraham ever lived.  how was that possible, DD?

                 

                you won't answer that,  either.

                 

                 “ No I will not. You get upset when I load a post with scripture that proves otherwise. Where do you read that Jesus said he was alive BEFORE Abe?

                 

                 

                 

                John 8:

                 

                  45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

                 

                  46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

                 

                  47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

                 

                  48Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

                 

                  49Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

                 

                  50And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

                 

                  51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

                 

                  52Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

                 

                  53Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

                 

                  54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

                 

                  55Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

                 

                  56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

                 

                  57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

                 

                  58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

                 

                  59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

                 

                Good question but it does not prove Jesus Christ was or is God. This verse can be understood in other verses. Jesus Christ is the centerpiece of all the books of the bible. In Genesis he is the woman’s seed. The redeemer promised to Adam and Eve after they sinned. God gave them the hope of the first coming of the promised seed. The woman does not have the seed so how can that be? The seed of the redeemer did not come from God, but was with Mary in her DNA. That is how he was before Abraham. Jesus Christ was declaring his blood line to Eve, who was made from the marrow of Adam’s rib. See the movie Splice yet? Marrow is where the blood is made and Leviticus says the life of the flesh is in the blood. Each book of the old testament as it is known, has different things about the Redeemer and the hope of his coming. This verse in John 8:58 can be understood from John 6:35 where it was spoken before, try to understand context and usage.

                 

                John 6:35 (King James Version)

                  35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

                 

                “I am the bread of life”. “I am” A form of expression peculiar to this Gospel. The figure Metaphor which carries over, and asserts that one thing is, i.e. represents the other; thus differing from simile, and hypocatastasis. The seven examples in this Gospel: I am the Bread of life (6:35,41,48,51) ; the Light of the world (8:12; 9:5) ; the Door of the sheep (10: 7,9) ; the Good Shepherd (10:11,14) ; the Resurrection and the Life (11: 25) ; the true and living Way (14:6) ; the true Vine (15 :1, 5). Christ is all the metaphors spoken of him in the bible. Paraphrased: “I am this and I am that, and I am because what the book says I am”. I am too. I am a Son of God. 

                 

                One of the many attributes of the redeemer is that he is what the mana represented to Israel in the wilderness. The bread of life. It was provided daily and if one got greedy or did not trust God to give them the mana tomorrow, to supply their needs daily,… well you go read what their unbelief produced. Christ is many things and redeemer and bread of life are just a few. From Genesis to Revelation, he is the tie that binds. He is the promised seed in Genesis and the King of Kings and Lord of Lords in Revelation (note: he does not say God of Gods) He is the topic of the book, front to back. The book is His story. He was also THE Passover lamb. THE shed blood and THE MESSIAH, THE (MONOGENES) SON OF GOD.

                 

                1. Revelation 17:14
                  These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
                  Revelation 17:13-15 (in Context) Revelation 17 (Whole Chapter)
                2. Revelation 19:16
                  And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
                  Revelation 19:15-17 (in Context) Revelation 19 (Whole Chapter)

                 

                 

                . .The “I AM” as spoken to Moses was God; Exodus 3:14. He has ten names in the old testament, one is translated as ALMIGHTY. Looks like you got close to one of the forgeries of the translations and that is in Revelation 1:8. “the beginning and the ending” is omitted in the texts. There is no “ending” of the true God. The manuscripts! The word Lord there in that verse is Lord God. One who is sovereign over all. Almighty in that verse is Gr. Pantokrator. This title belongs to the same God, as Creator, but expresses His relationship to all He has created, by the exercise of His power over “all the works of His hands”. This is not the same words as Lord (1) of Lords(2) in Rev 17:4 or in 19:16 attributed to the Son of God: the fulfillment of Psalm 2.

                 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. 

                Acts 10:43
                To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
                Acts 10:42-44 (in Context) Acts 10 (Whole Chapter)

                 

                Peter speaking by revelation of the Old testament prophets witness of the promise of the Redeemer. Remission = forgiveness. Bought back from the world they were born into with the nature as Adam died; estranged from God, under the dominion of the god of this world. Answered prayer is available and yes, I do pray. Yes I get answers to my prayers. If I do not, it does not make the word of God non-effect. No matter what I think or was taught contrary to what the book says.

                 

                DD

                  visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                  light on my feet
                  United States
                  Member #356
                  May 20, 2002
                  2744 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: June 24, 2010, 7:22 pm - IP Logged

                  I will only bump once here. This took hours, not minutes to compose. As for a BlunderQuest, I will quote the best punch line I ever heard from a movie “He chose ,…poorly”. If I am a minority in this world it is no surprise to me and I “marvel not”.

                   

                  1 Corinthians 15:45
                  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
                  1 Corinthians 15:44-46 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 15 (Whole Chapter)

                   

                  Adam is not God too (or God II, or God cubed -1, Or the almost-Almighty Quint).

                   

                  1)”who really IS God, and who can REALLY answer your prayer(s). “

                  Both the true God and the god of this world can answer prayers. Jesus was promised much if he worshiped his adversary. Get your God right. Jesus Christ is not God.

                   

                  Matthew 4:1
                  Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
                  Matthew 4:1-3 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter)
                   

                   

                  James 1:13
                  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
                  James 1:12-14 (in Context) James 1 (Whole Chapter)
                   

                   

                  2) “come to think of it DD,  you never addressed the health portion of your "prosperity" position. “

                   

                  It was answered. It is the will of God for those who trust in Him to be healed; prosper like they are healthy too. To trust in Him is to trust His Word, not yours. Verse:

                   

                  3 John 1:2
                  Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
                  3 John 1:1-3 (in Context) 3 John 1 (Whole Chapter)
                   

                   

                   3) “but only when He wants,  and if He wants.  as per HIS parameters for your life........”

                   

                  Your turn to document that one. Show me where it says that in the bible. My book says that what God is willing to do, He is also able. Do you really know what He is willing and able to do according to His Word? Verse:

                   

                  Hebrews 6:16-18 (King James Version)

                   

                    16For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.

                   

                    17Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

                   

                    18That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

                   

                  Romans 4:21
                  And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
                  Romans 4:20-22 (in Context) Romans 4 (Whole Chapter)
                   

                   

                  4) “we serve Him.  He is not there to serve us.   therein lies the differance (literally)”

                   

                  Part right, but like the Moon which is dead and has no light of its own, it illuminates by reflecting a true light source. Most convincing lies have some truth mixed in, especially in the denominations. Where did you get the idea God will not do if we ask with believing? You talk in terms of His will but you do not know what his will is like many who only think they know what His will is. His Word is good. It is His will. Verse:

                   

                  Philippians 4:19
                  But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
                  Philippians 4:18-20 (in Context) Philippians 4 (Whole Chapter)

                   

                  1 John 5:15
                  And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
                  1 John 5:14-16 (in Context) 1 John 5 (Whole Chapter)

                   

                  Luke 11:9
                  And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
                  Luke 11:8-10 (in Context) Luke 11 (Whole Chapter)

                   

                   

                   

                  5) “but he will do it on His terms,  and your peace will come when you adjust to those terms.”

                   

                  Yes there is a condition to meet to receive His promises. Believe His Word. God is no respecter of persons, but He does respect conditions.: Believing. Do you know what you can have by believing His Word? How about peace that passeth understanding. Verse:

                   

                  Mark 11:24
                  Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
                  Mark 11:23-25 (in Context) Mark 11 (Whole Chapter)

                   

                  Acts 10:34
                  Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
                  Acts 10:33-35 (in Context) Acts 10 (Whole Chapter)

                   

                  Philippians 4:7
                  And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
                  Philippians 4:6-8 (in Context) Philippians 4 (Whole Chapter)

                   

                   

                   

                  6) “begotten means "pre-exisistent".   "always has been".  "without beginning". 

                   

                  made my case for me.”

                   

                  For you, yes. For me, no. I looked the word up in a concordance. Who taught you that lie? You want to show it to me in the Greek text?

                   

                  Begotten: The English word begotten occurs just eleven times in translation (KJV). Not one of the occurrences means as you teach, “pre-exisistent (SP)”. All of the gospel occurrences are translated from the Greek word Monogenes=begotten (Son), only (John 1:14, 18, 3:16, 3:18). The other places this Monogenes is found is Hebrews 11:17 and 1 John 4:9. Monogenes does not mean “pre-exisistent (SP)” . Only born is another English equivalent as is chief. The translators had no idea about genetics. God did. He does not mince words.

                   

                  The other English begottens in the book:

                   

                  *Lev. 11:18 Hebrew; Moledeth=birth

                   

                  *Judg. 8:30 Hebrew; yatsa= To go out

                   

                  *Begotten, first- Greek; prototokos= First born

                   

                       Hebrews 1:6

                   

                       Revelation 1:5

                   

                  *Begotten, to be- Hebrew; yalad=To be born

                   

                       Deuteronomy 23:8

                   

                  You are wrong again in spades.

                   

                       

                   

                  7) “Jesus stated in john 8:58 that He was the "I AM".   the same "I AM" that God used as a description of Himself,  when moses asked God what His name was.

                   

                  Jesus stated (as the begotten) ......."before abraham was, I AM"...... after the jews had asked Him (in verse 57) that he had "seen abraham".      Jesus Christ stated He was alive BEFORE the prophet abraham ever lived.  how was that possible, DD?

                   

                  you won't answer that,  either.

                   

                   “ No I will not. You get upset when I load a post with scripture that proves otherwise. Where do you read that Jesus said he was alive BEFORE Abe?

                   

                   

                   

                  John 8:

                   

                    45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

                   

                    46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

                   

                    47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

                   

                    48Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

                   

                    49Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

                   

                    50And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

                   

                    51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

                   

                    52Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

                   

                    53Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

                   

                    54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

                   

                    55Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

                   

                    56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

                   

                    57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

                   

                    58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

                   

                    59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

                   

                  Good question but it does not prove Jesus Christ was or is God. This verse can be understood in other verses. Jesus Christ is the centerpiece of all the books of the bible. In Genesis he is the woman’s seed. The redeemer promised to Adam and Eve after they sinned. God gave them the hope of the first coming of the promised seed. The woman does not have the seed so how can that be? The seed of the redeemer did not come from God, but was with Mary in her DNA. That is how he was before Abraham. Jesus Christ was declaring his blood line to Eve, who was made from the marrow of Adam’s rib. See the movie Splice yet? Marrow is where the blood is made and Leviticus says the life of the flesh is in the blood. Each book of the old testament as it is known, has different things about the Redeemer and the hope of his coming. This verse in John 8:58 can be understood from John 6:35 where it was spoken before, try to understand context and usage.

                   

                  John 6:35 (King James Version)

                    35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

                   

                  “I am the bread of life”. “I am” A form of expression peculiar to this Gospel. The figure Metaphor which carries over, and asserts that one thing is, i.e. represents the other; thus differing from simile, and hypocatastasis. The seven examples in this Gospel: I am the Bread of life (6:35,41,48,51) ; the Light of the world (8:12; 9:5) ; the Door of the sheep (10: 7,9) ; the Good Shepherd (10:11,14) ; the Resurrection and the Life (11: 25) ; the true and living Way (14:6) ; the true Vine (15 :1, 5). Christ is all the metaphors spoken of him in the bible. Paraphrased: “I am this and I am that, and I am because what the book says I am”. I am too. I am a Son of God. 

                   

                  One of the many attributes of the redeemer is that he is what the mana represented to Israel in the wilderness. The bread of life. It was provided daily and if one got greedy or did not trust God to give them the mana tomorrow, to supply their needs daily,… well you go read what their unbelief produced. Christ is many things and redeemer and bread of life are just a few. From Genesis to Revelation, he is the tie that binds. He is the promised seed in Genesis and the King of Kings and Lord of Lords in Revelation (note: he does not say God of Gods) He is the topic of the book, front to back. The book is His story. He was also THE Passover lamb. THE shed blood and THE MESSIAH, THE (MONOGENES) SON OF GOD.

                   

                  1. Revelation 17:14
                    These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
                    Revelation 17:13-15 (in Context) Revelation 17 (Whole Chapter)
                  2. Revelation 19:16
                    And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
                    Revelation 19:15-17 (in Context) Revelation 19 (Whole Chapter)

                   

                   

                  . .The “I AM” as spoken to Moses was God; Exodus 3:14. He has ten names in the old testament, one is translated as ALMIGHTY. Looks like you got close to one of the forgeries of the translations and that is in Revelation 1:8. “the beginning and the ending” is omitted in the texts. There is no “ending” of the true God. The manuscripts! The word Lord there in that verse is Lord God. One who is sovereign over all. Almighty in that verse is Gr. Pantokrator. This title belongs to the same God, as Creator, but expresses His relationship to all He has created, by the exercise of His power over “all the works of His hands”. This is not the same words as Lord (1) of Lords(2) in Rev 17:4 or in 19:16 attributed to the Son of God: the fulfillment of Psalm 2.

                   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. 

                  Acts 10:43
                  To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
                  Acts 10:42-44 (in Context) Acts 10 (Whole Chapter)

                   

                  Peter speaking by revelation of the Old testament prophets witness of the promise of the Redeemer. Remission = forgiveness. Bought back from the world they were born into with the nature as Adam died; estranged from God, under the dominion of the god of this world. Answered prayer is available and yes, I do pray. Yes I get answers to my prayers. If I do not, it does not make the word of God non-effect. No matter what I think or was taught contrary to what the book says.

                   

                  DD

                  whoa.  the response to this might require TWO donuts, and 3 glasses of milk.  not a problem,  i am always up for the challenge of it all.  a forewarning though.....this will take me a couple of posts,  done over time tonight.  i have to "pencil you in", as they say.

                  i will say,  i do respect your effort, despite our chasm over agreement.  can't tell you how many that can't qualify their positions in life (when REALLY pressed), and usually run away.  but you,  you (so far) are willing to throw it out there.  that i CAN respect.

                  *************************************************************************************************

                  (1) being a "minority" in anything,  isn't an instant qualifying premise.  it's just means you're ego has grown larger than your reasoning lobe.  that statement reminds me of that guy (fronting for his cult) i encountered last weekend, where he attempted to qualify his belief systems on the old percentages trick - "i have been doing this for 5 years",  and "we take so much grief being out here".....to which my reply to him was "so what.  nothing else but biblical accuracy qualifies a mans position in this matter.  man, he didn't like that response,  because it challenge HOW he chose his "qualification". 

                  *************************************************************************************************

                  (2) careful on the name calling.  you don't know this about me,  but i am a very sensitive guy, and my feelings get hurt easily, and if you then intimidate me, we will be unable to see this thru to any conclusion.  that would be sad Unhappy

                  **********************************************************************************************

                  (3) of course adam wasn't God.  but if you use the analoGEE of adam,  the original state he was created in (and for), and what happened as a result of his knowledgeable/willful disobedience in order to "compare" him to Jesus Christ (as a means of "disqualifying Him" as God), just because Gods word goes to the most extreme lengths it needs to, to explain mans sin / vs God having to take sin upon Himself,  then you my new friend have sadly throw yourself headfirst into makeitupasigoalongland.

                  the "comparison" is simple.  the first adam represents man's FIRST ATTEMPT at being righteous before a Holy God, because He was the first created human being. - thru simple obedience.  God was specific what He required adam to do. adam disobeyed, so adam fell into a sinful state, and thus required a "way" back to righteousness before God.

                  God (in His infinite wisdom) knows some of us require a little more "in depth", in order to understand what really is, a SIMPLE methodology.  God thing God is patient with us.  the "first adam, last adam" is simple.

                  man started it (in adam), and God finished it AS A MAN, by taking on the sins of mankind Himself

                  thus the human element "Picture analogy" (the 2nd adam), just as God said He would do.

                  you keep trying to turn Jesus Christ back into being "just another human being"

                  i can reduce your deduction that Jesus Christ was only a "human being" (via your assasination of the "1st adam/2nd adam" scenario) with 3 statements

                  "human beings" aren't to be WORSHIPPED < and Christ was

                  "human beings" can't forgive the sins of mankindChrist did, and specifically died FOR them.

                  "human beings don't (and CAN'T) offer themselves up FOR the "sins of mankind".  (unless your high on crack, or unless you are God).......Christ did, and is  (God).

                  the "2nd adam" represented man FINALLY having the ability, once and for all, to deal with the righteous issue, by God becoming HUMAN.......so that no one in creation can ever say that God can't relate to us.  He cared enough to make it poingnant enough, TO become flesh......because HE didn't have to.

                  THAT'S the beauty

                  your assertion backfired,  because the 2nd adam anology only solidifies that God became flesh

                              "i am .........."meant to"       

                  P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                           until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                    visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                    light on my feet
                    United States
                    Member #356
                    May 20, 2002
                    2744 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: June 24, 2010, 7:30 pm - IP Logged

                    I will only bump once here. This took hours, not minutes to compose. As for a BlunderQuest, I will quote the best punch line I ever heard from a movie “He chose ,…poorly”. If I am a minority in this world it is no surprise to me and I “marvel not”.

                     

                    1 Corinthians 15:45
                    And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
                    1 Corinthians 15:44-46 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 15 (Whole Chapter)

                     

                    Adam is not God too (or God II, or God cubed -1, Or the almost-Almighty Quint).

                     

                    1)”who really IS God, and who can REALLY answer your prayer(s). “

                    Both the true God and the god of this world can answer prayers. Jesus was promised much if he worshiped his adversary. Get your God right. Jesus Christ is not God.

                     

                    Matthew 4:1
                    Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
                    Matthew 4:1-3 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter)
                     

                     

                    James 1:13
                    Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
                    James 1:12-14 (in Context) James 1 (Whole Chapter)
                     

                     

                    2) “come to think of it DD,  you never addressed the health portion of your "prosperity" position. “

                     

                    It was answered. It is the will of God for those who trust in Him to be healed; prosper like they are healthy too. To trust in Him is to trust His Word, not yours. Verse:

                     

                    3 John 1:2
                    Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
                    3 John 1:1-3 (in Context) 3 John 1 (Whole Chapter)
                     

                     

                     3) “but only when He wants,  and if He wants.  as per HIS parameters for your life........”

                     

                    Your turn to document that one. Show me where it says that in the bible. My book says that what God is willing to do, He is also able. Do you really know what He is willing and able to do according to His Word? Verse:

                     

                    Hebrews 6:16-18 (King James Version)

                     

                      16For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.

                     

                      17Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

                     

                      18That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

                     

                    Romans 4:21
                    And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
                    Romans 4:20-22 (in Context) Romans 4 (Whole Chapter)
                     

                     

                    4) “we serve Him.  He is not there to serve us.   therein lies the differance (literally)”

                     

                    Part right, but like the Moon which is dead and has no light of its own, it illuminates by reflecting a true light source. Most convincing lies have some truth mixed in, especially in the denominations. Where did you get the idea God will not do if we ask with believing? You talk in terms of His will but you do not know what his will is like many who only think they know what His will is. His Word is good. It is His will. Verse:

                     

                    Philippians 4:19
                    But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
                    Philippians 4:18-20 (in Context) Philippians 4 (Whole Chapter)

                     

                    1 John 5:15
                    And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
                    1 John 5:14-16 (in Context) 1 John 5 (Whole Chapter)

                     

                    Luke 11:9
                    And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
                    Luke 11:8-10 (in Context) Luke 11 (Whole Chapter)

                     

                     

                     

                    5) “but he will do it on His terms,  and your peace will come when you adjust to those terms.”

                     

                    Yes there is a condition to meet to receive His promises. Believe His Word. God is no respecter of persons, but He does respect conditions.: Believing. Do you know what you can have by believing His Word? How about peace that passeth understanding. Verse:

                     

                    Mark 11:24
                    Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
                    Mark 11:23-25 (in Context) Mark 11 (Whole Chapter)

                     

                    Acts 10:34
                    Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
                    Acts 10:33-35 (in Context) Acts 10 (Whole Chapter)

                     

                    Philippians 4:7
                    And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
                    Philippians 4:6-8 (in Context) Philippians 4 (Whole Chapter)

                     

                     

                     

                    6) “begotten means "pre-exisistent".   "always has been".  "without beginning". 

                     

                    made my case for me.”

                     

                    For you, yes. For me, no. I looked the word up in a concordance. Who taught you that lie? You want to show it to me in the Greek text?

                     

                    Begotten: The English word begotten occurs just eleven times in translation (KJV). Not one of the occurrences means as you teach, “pre-exisistent (SP)”. All of the gospel occurrences are translated from the Greek word Monogenes=begotten (Son), only (John 1:14, 18, 3:16, 3:18). The other places this Monogenes is found is Hebrews 11:17 and 1 John 4:9. Monogenes does not mean “pre-exisistent (SP)” . Only born is another English equivalent as is chief. The translators had no idea about genetics. God did. He does not mince words.

                     

                    The other English begottens in the book:

                     

                    *Lev. 11:18 Hebrew; Moledeth=birth

                     

                    *Judg. 8:30 Hebrew; yatsa= To go out

                     

                    *Begotten, first- Greek; prototokos= First born

                     

                         Hebrews 1:6

                     

                         Revelation 1:5

                     

                    *Begotten, to be- Hebrew; yalad=To be born

                     

                         Deuteronomy 23:8

                     

                    You are wrong again in spades.

                     

                         

                     

                    7) “Jesus stated in john 8:58 that He was the "I AM".   the same "I AM" that God used as a description of Himself,  when moses asked God what His name was.

                     

                    Jesus stated (as the begotten) ......."before abraham was, I AM"...... after the jews had asked Him (in verse 57) that he had "seen abraham".      Jesus Christ stated He was alive BEFORE the prophet abraham ever lived.  how was that possible, DD?

                     

                    you won't answer that,  either.

                     

                     “ No I will not. You get upset when I load a post with scripture that proves otherwise. Where do you read that Jesus said he was alive BEFORE Abe?

                     

                     

                     

                    John 8:

                     

                      45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

                     

                      46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

                     

                      47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

                     

                      48Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

                     

                      49Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

                     

                      50And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

                     

                      51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

                     

                      52Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

                     

                      53Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

                     

                      54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

                     

                      55Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

                     

                      56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

                     

                      57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

                     

                      58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

                     

                      59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

                     

                    Good question but it does not prove Jesus Christ was or is God. This verse can be understood in other verses. Jesus Christ is the centerpiece of all the books of the bible. In Genesis he is the woman’s seed. The redeemer promised to Adam and Eve after they sinned. God gave them the hope of the first coming of the promised seed. The woman does not have the seed so how can that be? The seed of the redeemer did not come from God, but was with Mary in her DNA. That is how he was before Abraham. Jesus Christ was declaring his blood line to Eve, who was made from the marrow of Adam’s rib. See the movie Splice yet? Marrow is where the blood is made and Leviticus says the life of the flesh is in the blood. Each book of the old testament as it is known, has different things about the Redeemer and the hope of his coming. This verse in John 8:58 can be understood from John 6:35 where it was spoken before, try to understand context and usage.

                     

                    John 6:35 (King James Version)

                      35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

                     

                    “I am the bread of life”. “I am” A form of expression peculiar to this Gospel. The figure Metaphor which carries over, and asserts that one thing is, i.e. represents the other; thus differing from simile, and hypocatastasis. The seven examples in this Gospel: I am the Bread of life (6:35,41,48,51) ; the Light of the world (8:12; 9:5) ; the Door of the sheep (10: 7,9) ; the Good Shepherd (10:11,14) ; the Resurrection and the Life (11: 25) ; the true and living Way (14:6) ; the true Vine (15 :1, 5). Christ is all the metaphors spoken of him in the bible. Paraphrased: “I am this and I am that, and I am because what the book says I am”. I am too. I am a Son of God. 

                     

                    One of the many attributes of the redeemer is that he is what the mana represented to Israel in the wilderness. The bread of life. It was provided daily and if one got greedy or did not trust God to give them the mana tomorrow, to supply their needs daily,… well you go read what their unbelief produced. Christ is many things and redeemer and bread of life are just a few. From Genesis to Revelation, he is the tie that binds. He is the promised seed in Genesis and the King of Kings and Lord of Lords in Revelation (note: he does not say God of Gods) He is the topic of the book, front to back. The book is His story. He was also THE Passover lamb. THE shed blood and THE MESSIAH, THE (MONOGENES) SON OF GOD.

                     

                    1. Revelation 17:14
                      These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
                      Revelation 17:13-15 (in Context) Revelation 17 (Whole Chapter)
                    2. Revelation 19:16
                      And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
                      Revelation 19:15-17 (in Context) Revelation 19 (Whole Chapter)

                     

                     

                    . .The “I AM” as spoken to Moses was God; Exodus 3:14. He has ten names in the old testament, one is translated as ALMIGHTY. Looks like you got close to one of the forgeries of the translations and that is in Revelation 1:8. “the beginning and the ending” is omitted in the texts. There is no “ending” of the true God. The manuscripts! The word Lord there in that verse is Lord God. One who is sovereign over all. Almighty in that verse is Gr. Pantokrator. This title belongs to the same God, as Creator, but expresses His relationship to all He has created, by the exercise of His power over “all the works of His hands”. This is not the same words as Lord (1) of Lords(2) in Rev 17:4 or in 19:16 attributed to the Son of God: the fulfillment of Psalm 2.

                     >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. 

                    Acts 10:43
                    To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
                    Acts 10:42-44 (in Context) Acts 10 (Whole Chapter)

                     

                    Peter speaking by revelation of the Old testament prophets witness of the promise of the Redeemer. Remission = forgiveness. Bought back from the world they were born into with the nature as Adam died; estranged from God, under the dominion of the god of this world. Answered prayer is available and yes, I do pray. Yes I get answers to my prayers. If I do not, it does not make the word of God non-effect. No matter what I think or was taught contrary to what the book says.

                     

                    DD

                    (3) of course Jesus Christ could be "tempted" ,  because in His nature, He was fully man.

                    the "fully God and fully man" designation doesn't dismiss Him from anything that He did, or came His way.

                    in order to be able to even take on the sins of the world,  he HAD to become fully man in His nature,  otherwise that akin to "cheating",  in that why would Christ ever even live, or die,  because God could wave his magic wand from heaven and "poof", righteousness is restored.

                    His nature as "fully man' meant that fairness prevailed, and thus He experienced everything you and i will ever face - and He did it as  HUMAN BEING.  so no one can accuse Him of "not understanding me".

                    you purposefully forgot the parts AFTER he was tempted, where it states "yet He was without sin"

                    only God can attain to, or duplicate perfection,  and that's where the "fully God" aspect of His nature was enabled to NOT sin.

                    once again.  you made my case

                                "i am .........."meant to"       

                    P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                             until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                      visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                      light on my feet
                      United States
                      Member #356
                      May 20, 2002
                      2744 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: June 24, 2010, 7:55 pm - IP Logged

                      I will only bump once here. This took hours, not minutes to compose. As for a BlunderQuest, I will quote the best punch line I ever heard from a movie “He chose ,…poorly”. If I am a minority in this world it is no surprise to me and I “marvel not”.

                       

                      1 Corinthians 15:45
                      And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
                      1 Corinthians 15:44-46 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 15 (Whole Chapter)

                       

                      Adam is not God too (or God II, or God cubed -1, Or the almost-Almighty Quint).

                       

                      1)”who really IS God, and who can REALLY answer your prayer(s). “

                      Both the true God and the god of this world can answer prayers. Jesus was promised much if he worshiped his adversary. Get your God right. Jesus Christ is not God.

                       

                      Matthew 4:1
                      Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
                      Matthew 4:1-3 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter)
                       

                       

                      James 1:13
                      Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
                      James 1:12-14 (in Context) James 1 (Whole Chapter)
                       

                       

                      2) “come to think of it DD,  you never addressed the health portion of your "prosperity" position. “

                       

                      It was answered. It is the will of God for those who trust in Him to be healed; prosper like they are healthy too. To trust in Him is to trust His Word, not yours. Verse:

                       

                      3 John 1:2
                      Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
                      3 John 1:1-3 (in Context) 3 John 1 (Whole Chapter)
                       

                       

                       3) “but only when He wants,  and if He wants.  as per HIS parameters for your life........”

                       

                      Your turn to document that one. Show me where it says that in the bible. My book says that what God is willing to do, He is also able. Do you really know what He is willing and able to do according to His Word? Verse:

                       

                      Hebrews 6:16-18 (King James Version)

                       

                        16For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.

                       

                        17Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

                       

                        18That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

                       

                      Romans 4:21
                      And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
                      Romans 4:20-22 (in Context) Romans 4 (Whole Chapter)
                       

                       

                      4) “we serve Him.  He is not there to serve us.   therein lies the differance (literally)”

                       

                      Part right, but like the Moon which is dead and has no light of its own, it illuminates by reflecting a true light source. Most convincing lies have some truth mixed in, especially in the denominations. Where did you get the idea God will not do if we ask with believing? You talk in terms of His will but you do not know what his will is like many who only think they know what His will is. His Word is good. It is His will. Verse:

                       

                      Philippians 4:19
                      But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
                      Philippians 4:18-20 (in Context) Philippians 4 (Whole Chapter)

                       

                      1 John 5:15
                      And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
                      1 John 5:14-16 (in Context) 1 John 5 (Whole Chapter)

                       

                      Luke 11:9
                      And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
                      Luke 11:8-10 (in Context) Luke 11 (Whole Chapter)

                       

                       

                       

                      5) “but he will do it on His terms,  and your peace will come when you adjust to those terms.”

                       

                      Yes there is a condition to meet to receive His promises. Believe His Word. God is no respecter of persons, but He does respect conditions.: Believing. Do you know what you can have by believing His Word? How about peace that passeth understanding. Verse:

                       

                      Mark 11:24
                      Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
                      Mark 11:23-25 (in Context) Mark 11 (Whole Chapter)

                       

                      Acts 10:34
                      Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
                      Acts 10:33-35 (in Context) Acts 10 (Whole Chapter)

                       

                      Philippians 4:7
                      And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
                      Philippians 4:6-8 (in Context) Philippians 4 (Whole Chapter)

                       

                       

                       

                      6) “begotten means "pre-exisistent".   "always has been".  "without beginning". 

                       

                      made my case for me.”

                       

                      For you, yes. For me, no. I looked the word up in a concordance. Who taught you that lie? You want to show it to me in the Greek text?

                       

                      Begotten: The English word begotten occurs just eleven times in translation (KJV). Not one of the occurrences means as you teach, “pre-exisistent (SP)”. All of the gospel occurrences are translated from the Greek word Monogenes=begotten (Son), only (John 1:14, 18, 3:16, 3:18). The other places this Monogenes is found is Hebrews 11:17 and 1 John 4:9. Monogenes does not mean “pre-exisistent (SP)” . Only born is another English equivalent as is chief. The translators had no idea about genetics. God did. He does not mince words.

                       

                      The other English begottens in the book:

                       

                      *Lev. 11:18 Hebrew; Moledeth=birth

                       

                      *Judg. 8:30 Hebrew; yatsa= To go out

                       

                      *Begotten, first- Greek; prototokos= First born

                       

                           Hebrews 1:6

                       

                           Revelation 1:5

                       

                      *Begotten, to be- Hebrew; yalad=To be born

                       

                           Deuteronomy 23:8

                       

                      You are wrong again in spades.

                       

                           

                       

                      7) “Jesus stated in john 8:58 that He was the "I AM".   the same "I AM" that God used as a description of Himself,  when moses asked God what His name was.

                       

                      Jesus stated (as the begotten) ......."before abraham was, I AM"...... after the jews had asked Him (in verse 57) that he had "seen abraham".      Jesus Christ stated He was alive BEFORE the prophet abraham ever lived.  how was that possible, DD?

                       

                      you won't answer that,  either.

                       

                       “ No I will not. You get upset when I load a post with scripture that proves otherwise. Where do you read that Jesus said he was alive BEFORE Abe?

                       

                       

                       

                      John 8:

                       

                        45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

                       

                        46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

                       

                        47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

                       

                        48Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

                       

                        49Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

                       

                        50And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

                       

                        51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

                       

                        52Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

                       

                        53Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

                       

                        54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

                       

                        55Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

                       

                        56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

                       

                        57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

                       

                        58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

                       

                        59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

                       

                      Good question but it does not prove Jesus Christ was or is God. This verse can be understood in other verses. Jesus Christ is the centerpiece of all the books of the bible. In Genesis he is the woman’s seed. The redeemer promised to Adam and Eve after they sinned. God gave them the hope of the first coming of the promised seed. The woman does not have the seed so how can that be? The seed of the redeemer did not come from God, but was with Mary in her DNA. That is how he was before Abraham. Jesus Christ was declaring his blood line to Eve, who was made from the marrow of Adam’s rib. See the movie Splice yet? Marrow is where the blood is made and Leviticus says the life of the flesh is in the blood. Each book of the old testament as it is known, has different things about the Redeemer and the hope of his coming. This verse in John 8:58 can be understood from John 6:35 where it was spoken before, try to understand context and usage.

                       

                      John 6:35 (King James Version)

                        35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

                       

                      “I am the bread of life”. “I am” A form of expression peculiar to this Gospel. The figure Metaphor which carries over, and asserts that one thing is, i.e. represents the other; thus differing from simile, and hypocatastasis. The seven examples in this Gospel: I am the Bread of life (6:35,41,48,51) ; the Light of the world (8:12; 9:5) ; the Door of the sheep (10: 7,9) ; the Good Shepherd (10:11,14) ; the Resurrection and the Life (11: 25) ; the true and living Way (14:6) ; the true Vine (15 :1, 5). Christ is all the metaphors spoken of him in the bible. Paraphrased: “I am this and I am that, and I am because what the book says I am”. I am too. I am a Son of God. 

                       

                      One of the many attributes of the redeemer is that he is what the mana represented to Israel in the wilderness. The bread of life. It was provided daily and if one got greedy or did not trust God to give them the mana tomorrow, to supply their needs daily,… well you go read what their unbelief produced. Christ is many things and redeemer and bread of life are just a few. From Genesis to Revelation, he is the tie that binds. He is the promised seed in Genesis and the King of Kings and Lord of Lords in Revelation (note: he does not say God of Gods) He is the topic of the book, front to back. The book is His story. He was also THE Passover lamb. THE shed blood and THE MESSIAH, THE (MONOGENES) SON OF GOD.

                       

                      1. Revelation 17:14
                        These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
                        Revelation 17:13-15 (in Context) Revelation 17 (Whole Chapter)
                      2. Revelation 19:16
                        And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
                        Revelation 19:15-17 (in Context) Revelation 19 (Whole Chapter)

                       

                       

                      . .The “I AM” as spoken to Moses was God; Exodus 3:14. He has ten names in the old testament, one is translated as ALMIGHTY. Looks like you got close to one of the forgeries of the translations and that is in Revelation 1:8. “the beginning and the ending” is omitted in the texts. There is no “ending” of the true God. The manuscripts! The word Lord there in that verse is Lord God. One who is sovereign over all. Almighty in that verse is Gr. Pantokrator. This title belongs to the same God, as Creator, but expresses His relationship to all He has created, by the exercise of His power over “all the works of His hands”. This is not the same words as Lord (1) of Lords(2) in Rev 17:4 or in 19:16 attributed to the Son of God: the fulfillment of Psalm 2.

                       >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. 

                      Acts 10:43
                      To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
                      Acts 10:42-44 (in Context) Acts 10 (Whole Chapter)

                       

                      Peter speaking by revelation of the Old testament prophets witness of the promise of the Redeemer. Remission = forgiveness. Bought back from the world they were born into with the nature as Adam died; estranged from God, under the dominion of the god of this world. Answered prayer is available and yes, I do pray. Yes I get answers to my prayers. If I do not, it does not make the word of God non-effect. No matter what I think or was taught contrary to what the book says.

                       

                      DD

                      i said ......... “come to think of it DD,  you never addressed the health portion of your "prosperity" position. “

                       

                      DD's response...."It was answered. It is the will of God for those who trust in Him to be healed; prosper like they are healthy too. To trust in Him is to trust His Word, not yours".

                      **************************************************************************************************************************************

                      that, is a lie, and even YOU know that it is.   maybe i should make the list of the cults out there that say the same thing, that "build" their premise on the picking and choosing of Gods word that suits their agenda.  the WHOLE of Gods word does NOT support that teaching,  otherwise the WHOLE of the biblical characters would have "prospered" themselves.

                      don't attempt to sell that horrible teaching to peter the apostle.  he was crucified upside down.

                      you have still yet to qualify the smallest of questions,  that actuallycould in REAL LIFE validate your claims,  that if you take an arena full of 10,000 people.......how many of those are truly "healed" , odds wise?

                      are you that selfishly ensconced in your cult that you would LOVE to tell the 9,997 "other people" that you know.......you just don't have enough "faith".  come back next week.  maybe then you will.  oh,  next week, the "healings" are a bit more expensive, because TV time costs have risen.

                      as you sell "prosperity",  it's a crock straight up.

                      like i said,  it only "works" in their buildings, and under their "scrutiny", and NOT in hospitals.

                      i cannot imagine how much trouble you are in, when you are telling someone reading this thread that they aren't healed.........because of "unbelief".

                      how rediculous that God "hasn't" (and rarely does, now that i exposed the odds of it all based on YOUR premise)........because now God has been completely relegated to the whims of man.

                      maybe the 6 year old girl, who had luekemia died of "unbelief", huh?

                      that teaching emasculates God,  and disables Him from suffering mankind.

                      your teaching just singlehandedly ELIMINATED most everyone on the planet.  because, you know, only the "believers" die at 100 from natural causes.

                      it's like that dude i encountered that had a shirt on that read "the apocolypse is may21st, 2011" (if i remember right).  i asked him "what are you going to do on may22nd?"

                      he had NO ANSWER 

                      the prosperity doctrine is great......for a man in his 20's.  not so "believable" for one in his 60's  

                                  "i am .........."meant to"       

                      P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                               until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                        visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                        light on my feet
                        United States
                        Member #356
                        May 20, 2002
                        2744 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: June 24, 2010, 8:45 pm - IP Logged

                        I will only bump once here. This took hours, not minutes to compose. As for a BlunderQuest, I will quote the best punch line I ever heard from a movie “He chose ,…poorly”. If I am a minority in this world it is no surprise to me and I “marvel not”.

                         

                        1 Corinthians 15:45
                        And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
                        1 Corinthians 15:44-46 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 15 (Whole Chapter)

                         

                        Adam is not God too (or God II, or God cubed -1, Or the almost-Almighty Quint).

                         

                        1)”who really IS God, and who can REALLY answer your prayer(s). “

                        Both the true God and the god of this world can answer prayers. Jesus was promised much if he worshiped his adversary. Get your God right. Jesus Christ is not God.

                         

                        Matthew 4:1
                        Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
                        Matthew 4:1-3 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter)
                         

                         

                        James 1:13
                        Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
                        James 1:12-14 (in Context) James 1 (Whole Chapter)
                         

                         

                        2) “come to think of it DD,  you never addressed the health portion of your "prosperity" position. “

                         

                        It was answered. It is the will of God for those who trust in Him to be healed; prosper like they are healthy too. To trust in Him is to trust His Word, not yours. Verse:

                         

                        3 John 1:2
                        Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
                        3 John 1:1-3 (in Context) 3 John 1 (Whole Chapter)
                         

                         

                         3) “but only when He wants,  and if He wants.  as per HIS parameters for your life........”

                         

                        Your turn to document that one. Show me where it says that in the bible. My book says that what God is willing to do, He is also able. Do you really know what He is willing and able to do according to His Word? Verse:

                         

                        Hebrews 6:16-18 (King James Version)

                         

                          16For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.

                         

                          17Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

                         

                          18That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

                         

                        Romans 4:21
                        And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
                        Romans 4:20-22 (in Context) Romans 4 (Whole Chapter)
                         

                         

                        4) “we serve Him.  He is not there to serve us.   therein lies the differance (literally)”

                         

                        Part right, but like the Moon which is dead and has no light of its own, it illuminates by reflecting a true light source. Most convincing lies have some truth mixed in, especially in the denominations. Where did you get the idea God will not do if we ask with believing? You talk in terms of His will but you do not know what his will is like many who only think they know what His will is. His Word is good. It is His will. Verse:

                         

                        Philippians 4:19
                        But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
                        Philippians 4:18-20 (in Context) Philippians 4 (Whole Chapter)

                         

                        1 John 5:15
                        And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
                        1 John 5:14-16 (in Context) 1 John 5 (Whole Chapter)

                         

                        Luke 11:9
                        And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
                        Luke 11:8-10 (in Context) Luke 11 (Whole Chapter)

                         

                         

                         

                        5) “but he will do it on His terms,  and your peace will come when you adjust to those terms.”

                         

                        Yes there is a condition to meet to receive His promises. Believe His Word. God is no respecter of persons, but He does respect conditions.: Believing. Do you know what you can have by believing His Word? How about peace that passeth understanding. Verse:

                         

                        Mark 11:24
                        Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
                        Mark 11:23-25 (in Context) Mark 11 (Whole Chapter)

                         

                        Acts 10:34
                        Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
                        Acts 10:33-35 (in Context) Acts 10 (Whole Chapter)

                         

                        Philippians 4:7
                        And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
                        Philippians 4:6-8 (in Context) Philippians 4 (Whole Chapter)

                         

                         

                         

                        6) “begotten means "pre-exisistent".   "always has been".  "without beginning". 

                         

                        made my case for me.”

                         

                        For you, yes. For me, no. I looked the word up in a concordance. Who taught you that lie? You want to show it to me in the Greek text?

                         

                        Begotten: The English word begotten occurs just eleven times in translation (KJV). Not one of the occurrences means as you teach, “pre-exisistent (SP)”. All of the gospel occurrences are translated from the Greek word Monogenes=begotten (Son), only (John 1:14, 18, 3:16, 3:18). The other places this Monogenes is found is Hebrews 11:17 and 1 John 4:9. Monogenes does not mean “pre-exisistent (SP)” . Only born is another English equivalent as is chief. The translators had no idea about genetics. God did. He does not mince words.

                         

                        The other English begottens in the book:

                         

                        *Lev. 11:18 Hebrew; Moledeth=birth

                         

                        *Judg. 8:30 Hebrew; yatsa= To go out

                         

                        *Begotten, first- Greek; prototokos= First born

                         

                             Hebrews 1:6

                         

                             Revelation 1:5

                         

                        *Begotten, to be- Hebrew; yalad=To be born

                         

                             Deuteronomy 23:8

                         

                        You are wrong again in spades.

                         

                             

                         

                        7) “Jesus stated in john 8:58 that He was the "I AM".   the same "I AM" that God used as a description of Himself,  when moses asked God what His name was.

                         

                        Jesus stated (as the begotten) ......."before abraham was, I AM"...... after the jews had asked Him (in verse 57) that he had "seen abraham".      Jesus Christ stated He was alive BEFORE the prophet abraham ever lived.  how was that possible, DD?

                         

                        you won't answer that,  either.

                         

                         “ No I will not. You get upset when I load a post with scripture that proves otherwise. Where do you read that Jesus said he was alive BEFORE Abe?

                         

                         

                         

                        John 8:

                         

                          45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

                         

                          46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

                         

                          47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

                         

                          48Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

                         

                          49Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

                         

                          50And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

                         

                          51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

                         

                          52Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

                         

                          53Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

                         

                          54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

                         

                          55Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

                         

                          56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

                         

                          57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

                         

                          58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

                         

                          59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

                         

                        Good question but it does not prove Jesus Christ was or is God. This verse can be understood in other verses. Jesus Christ is the centerpiece of all the books of the bible. In Genesis he is the woman’s seed. The redeemer promised to Adam and Eve after they sinned. God gave them the hope of the first coming of the promised seed. The woman does not have the seed so how can that be? The seed of the redeemer did not come from God, but was with Mary in her DNA. That is how he was before Abraham. Jesus Christ was declaring his blood line to Eve, who was made from the marrow of Adam’s rib. See the movie Splice yet? Marrow is where the blood is made and Leviticus says the life of the flesh is in the blood. Each book of the old testament as it is known, has different things about the Redeemer and the hope of his coming. This verse in John 8:58 can be understood from John 6:35 where it was spoken before, try to understand context and usage.

                         

                        John 6:35 (King James Version)

                          35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

                         

                        “I am the bread of life”. “I am” A form of expression peculiar to this Gospel. The figure Metaphor which carries over, and asserts that one thing is, i.e. represents the other; thus differing from simile, and hypocatastasis. The seven examples in this Gospel: I am the Bread of life (6:35,41,48,51) ; the Light of the world (8:12; 9:5) ; the Door of the sheep (10: 7,9) ; the Good Shepherd (10:11,14) ; the Resurrection and the Life (11: 25) ; the true and living Way (14:6) ; the true Vine (15 :1, 5). Christ is all the metaphors spoken of him in the bible. Paraphrased: “I am this and I am that, and I am because what the book says I am”. I am too. I am a Son of God. 

                         

                        One of the many attributes of the redeemer is that he is what the mana represented to Israel in the wilderness. The bread of life. It was provided daily and if one got greedy or did not trust God to give them the mana tomorrow, to supply their needs daily,… well you go read what their unbelief produced. Christ is many things and redeemer and bread of life are just a few. From Genesis to Revelation, he is the tie that binds. He is the promised seed in Genesis and the King of Kings and Lord of Lords in Revelation (note: he does not say God of Gods) He is the topic of the book, front to back. The book is His story. He was also THE Passover lamb. THE shed blood and THE MESSIAH, THE (MONOGENES) SON OF GOD.

                         

                        1. Revelation 17:14
                          These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
                          Revelation 17:13-15 (in Context) Revelation 17 (Whole Chapter)
                        2. Revelation 19:16
                          And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
                          Revelation 19:15-17 (in Context) Revelation 19 (Whole Chapter)

                         

                         

                        . .The “I AM” as spoken to Moses was God; Exodus 3:14. He has ten names in the old testament, one is translated as ALMIGHTY. Looks like you got close to one of the forgeries of the translations and that is in Revelation 1:8. “the beginning and the ending” is omitted in the texts. There is no “ending” of the true God. The manuscripts! The word Lord there in that verse is Lord God. One who is sovereign over all. Almighty in that verse is Gr. Pantokrator. This title belongs to the same God, as Creator, but expresses His relationship to all He has created, by the exercise of His power over “all the works of His hands”. This is not the same words as Lord (1) of Lords(2) in Rev 17:4 or in 19:16 attributed to the Son of God: the fulfillment of Psalm 2.

                         >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. 

                        Acts 10:43
                        To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
                        Acts 10:42-44 (in Context) Acts 10 (Whole Chapter)

                         

                        Peter speaking by revelation of the Old testament prophets witness of the promise of the Redeemer. Remission = forgiveness. Bought back from the world they were born into with the nature as Adam died; estranged from God, under the dominion of the god of this world. Answered prayer is available and yes, I do pray. Yes I get answers to my prayers. If I do not, it does not make the word of God non-effect. No matter what I think or was taught contrary to what the book says.

                         

                        DD

                        your "begotten" explanation fell well short.  you "forgot" some important components to illustrate it's context.

                        i should added for the nail on the head moment, the term "ONLY begotton".  means one time event.

                        you could have passed off your explanation of "begotten" as just another birth, of another ordinary baby,  but "begotten" froms it's WHOLE biblical perspective means exactly what i said - pre-existed.

                        why?   because in the orginal,  "begotten" means "just the same", sharing the same attributes, nature, etc.

                        the "begotten" ALWAYS shares the same attributes as the "begettor" possesses.

                        "begotten" is the beneficary of what ever the "begettor" had.

                        what's even more important,  is Christ's  pre-existence  before He was born

                        i was literally laughing (in the most tragic of ways) watching your pathetic attempt at explaining away Jesus Christ literally stating He was alive (i am really digging re-discovering the "color" buttons, having been away from LP so long).....BEFORE abraham ever lived.

                        really DD,  that was an intellectual joke.   even a pig and a poke cursory glance at the ensuing responses of that statement by the jews, after Christ stated He lived before abraham is that were incensed.  FURIOUS.  they wanted to kill him.  kill him for what?   because he was crazy?  those guys saw "crazy" all the time,  but they wouldn't have reacted that way if they thought He was nuts.

                        they fully understood what Christ inferred......that He was claiming equality with God.

                        ********************************************************************************************

                        i had to highlight this part, because as of yet,  this is your most rediculous "defense" of what you believe, especially the WHY of what you believe.

                        where you stated ......" The woman does not have the seed so how can that be? The seed of the redeemer did not come from God, but was with Mary in her DNA".

                        oh wow.  watch science fiction movies much?

                        you are right.  you are in a "minority".   and man is that ever now so evident.  yikes

                        by that i mean,  even kindergarders can read what Gods word actually says about it (with the graduating class of all of historical Christianity right behind them).......that the Holy Spirit was the "impregnator" ( which means mary didn't have ZIP "residing in her".....or whatever james cameron scenario you can dream up). 

                        mary already had the DNA.   wow.  that's one even i have never heard before i met you.  that is not a compliment DD.

                        DD,  i know you are desperate to sell your cultic wares as too-legit-to-quit,  but really, you are going to have to come up with an "excuse" that you can actually sell.

                        not only was God the father of mary's child (for the Deity aspect),  but God said He would impregnate mary HUNDREDS OF YEARS BEFORE mary was ever born.

                        cults don't like the virgin birth,  and they do whatever they can to eliminate it, or explain it away.  typical cult behavior

                        why?  because the virgin birth solidifies that God came in the flesh....to man.....thru man

                        DNA.  ha ha.    try selling that as legit a hand full of decades ago.

                        DD,  here is some advice.  really, take it.   don't let hollywood dictate your "theology".   right now yours is an amalgamation of "avatar" and "cribs"

                        E-gads

                                    "i am .........."meant to"       

                        P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                                 until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                          visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                          light on my feet
                          United States
                          Member #356
                          May 20, 2002
                          2744 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: June 24, 2010, 11:13 pm - IP Logged

                          I will only bump once here. This took hours, not minutes to compose. As for a BlunderQuest, I will quote the best punch line I ever heard from a movie “He chose ,…poorly”. If I am a minority in this world it is no surprise to me and I “marvel not”.

                           

                          1 Corinthians 15:45
                          And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
                          1 Corinthians 15:44-46 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 15 (Whole Chapter)

                           

                          Adam is not God too (or God II, or God cubed -1, Or the almost-Almighty Quint).

                           

                          1)”who really IS God, and who can REALLY answer your prayer(s). “

                          Both the true God and the god of this world can answer prayers. Jesus was promised much if he worshiped his adversary. Get your God right. Jesus Christ is not God.

                           

                          Matthew 4:1
                          Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
                          Matthew 4:1-3 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter)
                           

                           

                          James 1:13
                          Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
                          James 1:12-14 (in Context) James 1 (Whole Chapter)
                           

                           

                          2) “come to think of it DD,  you never addressed the health portion of your "prosperity" position. “

                           

                          It was answered. It is the will of God for those who trust in Him to be healed; prosper like they are healthy too. To trust in Him is to trust His Word, not yours. Verse:

                           

                          3 John 1:2
                          Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
                          3 John 1:1-3 (in Context) 3 John 1 (Whole Chapter)
                           

                           

                           3) “but only when He wants,  and if He wants.  as per HIS parameters for your life........”

                           

                          Your turn to document that one. Show me where it says that in the bible. My book says that what God is willing to do, He is also able. Do you really know what He is willing and able to do according to His Word? Verse:

                           

                          Hebrews 6:16-18 (King James Version)

                           

                            16For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.

                           

                            17Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

                           

                            18That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

                           

                          Romans 4:21
                          And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
                          Romans 4:20-22 (in Context) Romans 4 (Whole Chapter)
                           

                           

                          4) “we serve Him.  He is not there to serve us.   therein lies the differance (literally)”

                           

                          Part right, but like the Moon which is dead and has no light of its own, it illuminates by reflecting a true light source. Most convincing lies have some truth mixed in, especially in the denominations. Where did you get the idea God will not do if we ask with believing? You talk in terms of His will but you do not know what his will is like many who only think they know what His will is. His Word is good. It is His will. Verse:

                           

                          Philippians 4:19
                          But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
                          Philippians 4:18-20 (in Context) Philippians 4 (Whole Chapter)

                           

                          1 John 5:15
                          And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
                          1 John 5:14-16 (in Context) 1 John 5 (Whole Chapter)

                           

                          Luke 11:9
                          And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
                          Luke 11:8-10 (in Context) Luke 11 (Whole Chapter)

                           

                           

                           

                          5) “but he will do it on His terms,  and your peace will come when you adjust to those terms.”

                           

                          Yes there is a condition to meet to receive His promises. Believe His Word. God is no respecter of persons, but He does respect conditions.: Believing. Do you know what you can have by believing His Word? How about peace that passeth understanding. Verse:

                           

                          Mark 11:24
                          Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
                          Mark 11:23-25 (in Context) Mark 11 (Whole Chapter)

                           

                          Acts 10:34
                          Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
                          Acts 10:33-35 (in Context) Acts 10 (Whole Chapter)

                           

                          Philippians 4:7
                          And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
                          Philippians 4:6-8 (in Context) Philippians 4 (Whole Chapter)

                           

                           

                           

                          6) “begotten means "pre-exisistent".   "always has been".  "without beginning". 

                           

                          made my case for me.”

                           

                          For you, yes. For me, no. I looked the word up in a concordance. Who taught you that lie? You want to show it to me in the Greek text?

                           

                          Begotten: The English word begotten occurs just eleven times in translation (KJV). Not one of the occurrences means as you teach, “pre-exisistent (SP)”. All of the gospel occurrences are translated from the Greek word Monogenes=begotten (Son), only (John 1:14, 18, 3:16, 3:18). The other places this Monogenes is found is Hebrews 11:17 and 1 John 4:9. Monogenes does not mean “pre-exisistent (SP)” . Only born is another English equivalent as is chief. The translators had no idea about genetics. God did. He does not mince words.

                           

                          The other English begottens in the book:

                           

                          *Lev. 11:18 Hebrew; Moledeth=birth

                           

                          *Judg. 8:30 Hebrew; yatsa= To go out

                           

                          *Begotten, first- Greek; prototokos= First born

                           

                               Hebrews 1:6

                           

                               Revelation 1:5

                           

                          *Begotten, to be- Hebrew; yalad=To be born

                           

                               Deuteronomy 23:8

                           

                          You are wrong again in spades.

                           

                               

                           

                          7) “Jesus stated in john 8:58 that He was the "I AM".   the same "I AM" that God used as a description of Himself,  when moses asked God what His name was.

                           

                          Jesus stated (as the begotten) ......."before abraham was, I AM"...... after the jews had asked Him (in verse 57) that he had "seen abraham".      Jesus Christ stated He was alive BEFORE the prophet abraham ever lived.  how was that possible, DD?

                           

                          you won't answer that,  either.

                           

                           “ No I will not. You get upset when I load a post with scripture that proves otherwise. Where do you read that Jesus said he was alive BEFORE Abe?

                           

                           

                           

                          John 8:

                           

                            45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

                           

                            46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

                           

                            47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

                           

                            48Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

                           

                            49Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

                           

                            50And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

                           

                            51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

                           

                            52Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

                           

                            53Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

                           

                            54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

                           

                            55Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

                           

                            56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

                           

                            57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

                           

                            58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

                           

                            59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

                           

                          Good question but it does not prove Jesus Christ was or is God. This verse can be understood in other verses. Jesus Christ is the centerpiece of all the books of the bible. In Genesis he is the woman’s seed. The redeemer promised to Adam and Eve after they sinned. God gave them the hope of the first coming of the promised seed. The woman does not have the seed so how can that be? The seed of the redeemer did not come from God, but was with Mary in her DNA. That is how he was before Abraham. Jesus Christ was declaring his blood line to Eve, who was made from the marrow of Adam’s rib. See the movie Splice yet? Marrow is where the blood is made and Leviticus says the life of the flesh is in the blood. Each book of the old testament as it is known, has different things about the Redeemer and the hope of his coming. This verse in John 8:58 can be understood from John 6:35 where it was spoken before, try to understand context and usage.

                           

                          John 6:35 (King James Version)

                            35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

                           

                          “I am the bread of life”. “I am” A form of expression peculiar to this Gospel. The figure Metaphor which carries over, and asserts that one thing is, i.e. represents the other; thus differing from simile, and hypocatastasis. The seven examples in this Gospel: I am the Bread of life (6:35,41,48,51) ; the Light of the world (8:12; 9:5) ; the Door of the sheep (10: 7,9) ; the Good Shepherd (10:11,14) ; the Resurrection and the Life (11: 25) ; the true and living Way (14:6) ; the true Vine (15 :1, 5). Christ is all the metaphors spoken of him in the bible. Paraphrased: “I am this and I am that, and I am because what the book says I am”. I am too. I am a Son of God. 

                           

                          One of the many attributes of the redeemer is that he is what the mana represented to Israel in the wilderness. The bread of life. It was provided daily and if one got greedy or did not trust God to give them the mana tomorrow, to supply their needs daily,… well you go read what their unbelief produced. Christ is many things and redeemer and bread of life are just a few. From Genesis to Revelation, he is the tie that binds. He is the promised seed in Genesis and the King of Kings and Lord of Lords in Revelation (note: he does not say God of Gods) He is the topic of the book, front to back. The book is His story. He was also THE Passover lamb. THE shed blood and THE MESSIAH, THE (MONOGENES) SON OF GOD.

                           

                          1. Revelation 17:14
                            These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
                            Revelation 17:13-15 (in Context) Revelation 17 (Whole Chapter)
                          2. Revelation 19:16
                            And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
                            Revelation 19:15-17 (in Context) Revelation 19 (Whole Chapter)

                           

                           

                          . .The “I AM” as spoken to Moses was God; Exodus 3:14. He has ten names in the old testament, one is translated as ALMIGHTY. Looks like you got close to one of the forgeries of the translations and that is in Revelation 1:8. “the beginning and the ending” is omitted in the texts. There is no “ending” of the true God. The manuscripts! The word Lord there in that verse is Lord God. One who is sovereign over all. Almighty in that verse is Gr. Pantokrator. This title belongs to the same God, as Creator, but expresses His relationship to all He has created, by the exercise of His power over “all the works of His hands”. This is not the same words as Lord (1) of Lords(2) in Rev 17:4 or in 19:16 attributed to the Son of God: the fulfillment of Psalm 2.

                           >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. 

                          Acts 10:43
                          To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
                          Acts 10:42-44 (in Context) Acts 10 (Whole Chapter)

                           

                          Peter speaking by revelation of the Old testament prophets witness of the promise of the Redeemer. Remission = forgiveness. Bought back from the world they were born into with the nature as Adam died; estranged from God, under the dominion of the god of this world. Answered prayer is available and yes, I do pray. Yes I get answers to my prayers. If I do not, it does not make the word of God non-effect. No matter what I think or was taught contrary to what the book says.

                           

                          DD

                          you stated.........."Christ is many things and redeemer and bread of life are just a few". 

                          it was your "defense" against the usage of the term by Christ to the jews when He said "I AM".

                          regular old human beings,  despite an exceptional piously lived life ,  cannot EVER redeem another person.

                          "redeemer" is another title ONLY attributable TO God.  no human being can hold that title,  or attain to it, except God.

                          "Bread of Life".   Jesus Christ gives life?  how is that possible, if he was Only human?   Christ was rightfully called the "Bread of Life", because it was but another (in the arms length list) of names and designations that are ONLY attributable to God.

                          if you are attempting to discredit the position i hold,  that Christ claimed to be God, and proved it by raising Himself from the dead, and by receiving Worship,  you shouldn't continue to help my case,  by continuing to ADD to it's validity.

                          you should rattle of the names and designations that Christ held,  and then we can go thru the old testament and match them up SIDE BY SIDE.

                          ***********************************************************************************************

                          like the usage of the word "Lord" (with a capital "L")

                          you watered that down with your super soaker theology so much,  you turned Jesus into "just another man".

                          ahhh nope.  Lord with a capital "L"  means a "master", or "one of authority".

                          there is only ONE that we as believers should go to for all things "God authoratative", and that's God.  period.  not any man, God.

                          you see,  what i have done with you,  is to draw out over time what your true theological line of thinking is,  and anyone with a smidgen of ability following along can tell you CAN'T DECIDE who Jesus Christ really is in your cults "theology".

                          you fade in out about so much about what YOU believe about Jesus Christ,  it's making us dizzy Crazy

                          "He's just a man".  "no, He has atrributes no man has, and or has ever had".  "wait a minute, i wanna stipulate he's just a man".   "but he can forgive sins, and he is the bread of life, and he is the ONLY man that can demand we call him Lord".   "the whole book is written about him".  "ugggg. i can't get past that worship part,  but i know he's just a man". 

                          DD,  you are better than most of masking what your cult teaches,  but even you can't hide from the fact now that you have 2 "Jesus Christ's"  floating around in your theo-un-logical wishful thinking, so it can match your dream of being on "cribs".

                          your version of "Jesus Christ" is one where He is some super human DNA one time event,  a man that teters on being "God" (because even you attribute attributes and names only attributable TO God), but more in the "almost, but not quite" category.   sort of a "the most super human to ever grace the planet.  maybe we are to take most of our que's from Him, but don't cross that line and call him "God", because afterall,  he's just another human being".

                          sorry DD.   you totally undermined any possibility that your position holds soap, much less water,  because everyone must decide if He is God,  or "just another man"

                          you don't pray to a "man".  "man" cannot grant you salvation thru his name.  "man" is NOT to be worshipped. ad infinitum...

                          He wasn't, and isn't "just a man". 

                          DD,  you have whats called a "revolving door Jesus".    actually,  He is ever evolving in your cult (evidenced by that desperate "DNA" rediculousness), as you dream of ways to reduce Him to mere "man status", because you cult doesn't want to accept the fact that Christ IS God,  so they can control you with THEIR version of authority (hey DD, gimme yo money).

                             yesterday he was compared to a synthetic fish.  what's on the manufacture menu to tomorrow?  any ideas?

                          you say everything there is to say,  you corroberate everything there is to corroberate, and you even use Gods word citing the incredible importance of Christ......but you stop short.  you stick the tip of your nose 2milimeters from touching the line, but you refuse to cross it.......that Jesus Christ is God.

                          can't have it both ways DD.   you can't have a "He's just a man" theology,  with a man that shares 100% of the names, attributes and designations of God alone.

                          Well you can......(if you are in a cult were someone robbed your ability to rationally think and compare)

                          the one fact you can never manufacture enough "versions" of Jesus Christ to "explain away" His deity......that He is Worshipped.  with a capital "W".    never one squashed it.  courted it.

                          Just like Jesus Christ said about Himself "I Am the Alpha, and the Omega.  The Beginning, and The End. The First, and The Last"

                          which one of your "Jesus'" said that?

                                      "i am .........."meant to"       

                          P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                                   until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                            visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                            light on my feet
                            United States
                            Member #356
                            May 20, 2002
                            2744 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: June 24, 2010, 11:19 pm - IP Logged

                            just so you know DD,  i am finished for tonight,  as far as my rebuttal of your last post anway, so you are free to explain just "who" Jesus is in your "theology",  so the reading audience will know exactly WHICH ONE you pick.

                            Who is He, and what can He do, or cannot do?

                            now focus,  because this is now the "meat" of where we needed to go, in order to lift the veil of what you believe.

                            even you know you can't have "multiple Jesus'".

                            or do you?

                                        "i am .........."meant to"       

                            P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                                     until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                              victorl3ichiban's avatar - georgemichael
                              san jose
                              United States
                              Member #53761
                              July 20, 2007
                              277 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: June 24, 2010, 11:43 pm - IP Logged

                              I didn't expect this thread to be this long....

                                 
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