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Praying?

Topic closed. 421 replies. Last post 6 years ago by visiondude.

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Posted: June 21, 2010, 10:26 am - IP Logged

thanks.

it's true,  and you can tell by the flow of joker's assertions that He lumps Christianity in with all the other "religions",  which in a sense,  can actually grant him an actual CORRECT statement about Christianity.

you can practice Christianity "the religion" for years,  and completely miss the PERSON (and finished work) of Christ.

 a result that leads to eternal seperation from God.  hell for the politically UNcorrect crowd

I simple love this thread!!! It gets to the core of the matter...and That is,  it get's to our origin, our Creation!  and some of us Deep down Do know that GOD IS REAL!! the problem is HE conflicts with what we want to do, we want to do as it pleases us, the thought that one day we have to answer for "wrong" doings, according to GOD, we rather deny HIM, like that is going to change the FACT!!!

Some of us want to be gods of our Own Life, gods in our own existence  and there can only be ONE!!!

forget what "they" say about youWhat you say about you?...

Now, does it count??

 

 

*Jr$ina

    visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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    Posted: June 21, 2010, 1:35 pm - IP Logged

    Boy o boy :) i just found this debate and i got to say its INTERESTING :)  I personaly was raised in catholic house (going to church every sunday etc.) and i do belive in God and always will becouse what would we be with out some caind of feith , however  I lost all my feith in bible and church  i belive in and live by ten commandments and trying to be the best i can for others and thats  were it ends, im not perfect not even close, but if God do exist and i will be judge one day atleast i will know i did it my way and not blindly follow some greedy idiots.

    Religion and belives are matter of personal opinion, we all are intitle to one, so no one is or will be wrong in that subject, bible speak of understandig for one to another but people who quote the bible are the most hypocritical ( i dont mean in this thread but in general), to all those who think they religion or belive is better ask urself a question:
    Who the hell are u to tell them they belive is wrong ,what makes u better then them.  

     

    P.S
    But i must say if God see me and tell me U SUCK, GET UR BACK SIDE TO HELL  i would be quite pissed :)

    broulir,  i hope you understand that every person you will ever meet in your entire life WILL be "hypocritical".  everyone.  because there is not one person on the planet that can maintain perfection.   none

    anytime you hold up "perfection" as a means to qualify validity in a mans position, you will come away with that excuse.

    it is intellectually disingenous to qualify (especially the things of God), based on the actions of men. 

     now they "can" be indicators in revealing quickly the falsehoods of a position, that part is true.   but anyone who bases the claims of Christ (as God, our savior) on the ability to maintain perfect principles on another humn being,  sets themselves up for eventual disappointment because of the inevitable human failure-factor,  and the old subsequent dismissle of God,  that somehow "it doesn't work".  that's a lie based solely on man,  and not on who God is, and does.

    you qualify God on what He HAS done,  based on what He said about Himself,  and Not on the actions of any man.

    there is one cerainty based just in common sense,  that no man will stand before God, and use the excuse with immunity, that "i didn't",  because "he/she did this or that"

    human hypocrisy isn't a stitch of a reason to disqualify God from anyones life.  ever

    if anything,  hypocrisy should spur you on to be completely opposite of what you observe, and complain about

                "i am .........."meant to"       

    P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

             until further notice,  it's  france everyday

      Broulir32's avatar - 112

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      Posted: June 21, 2010, 1:53 pm - IP Logged

      booboo i dont complain about it  its just an observation. And to be 100% honest with all of u i dont give a rat ... about ur belives im warrying only about my self and how i live , and if some wonts to go to church and jump like monkey and freaking pretend like they just got hollyspiryt in them then be my guess, not my problem so i really dont understand why u people argue ?????? this mean that all of u think u right and other person is wrongm, there is a word that describe those type of people :):):)

      And the answer is ???       U won't get it, if u don't ask the question ??

        visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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        Posted: June 21, 2010, 2:21 pm - IP Logged

        Hey vision,

        You’re blind in one eye and can’t see out the other.

        I am a joint heir with Jesus Christ who is my brother. We have the same heavenly Father. Christ is the head of the body of Christ. He is my lord. Our Father is the one true God.

        You go ahead and bank on a three headed goat-god if you want. I have family.

        I know why you do not hear or see what I have presented you before in posts. To begin with, you got the wrong god and wrong spiritual influence, even if you talk the book.

        “just to keep you on the hook,  you have yet to answer how Christ raised Himself from the dead.  you ran from that one.”

        He did not raise himself from the dead, moron. You got pigs in the parlor.

        1. Acts 4:10
          Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
          Acts 4:9-11 (in Context) Acts 4 (Whole Chapter)
        2. Acts 13:30
          But God raised him from the dead:
          Acts 13:29-31 (in Context) Acts 13 (Whole Chapter)
        3. Acts 13:34
          And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
          Acts 13:33-35 (in Context) Acts 13 (Whole Chapter)
        4. Acts 17:31
          Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
          Acts 17:30-32 (in Context) Acts 17 (Whole Chapter)
        5. Romans 4:24
          But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
          Romans 4:23-25 (in Context) Romans 4 (Whole Chapter)
        6. Romans 6:4
          Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
          Romans 6:3-5 (in Context) Romans 6 (Whole Chapter)
        7. Romans 8:11
          But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
          Romans 8:10-12 (in Context) Romans 8 (Whole Chapter)
        8. Romans 10:9
          That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
          Romans 10:8-10 (in Context) Romans 10 (Whole Chapter)
        9. Galatians 1:1
          Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
          Galatians 1:1-3 (in Context) Galatians 1 (Whole Chapter)
        10. Ephesians 1:20
          Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
          Ephesians 1:19-21 (in Context) Ephesians 1 (Whole Chapter)
        11. Colossians 2:12
          Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
          Colossians 2:11-13 (in Context) Colossians 2 (Whole Chapter)
        12. 1 Peter 1:21
          Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
          1 Peter 1:20-22 (in Context) 1 Peter 1 (Whole Chapter)

         

        “and you ran from qualifying your prosperity position,  by not explaining why people aren't "healed" “

        Here you go bible expert: Need a clue?

        1. Matthew 13:58
          And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
          Matthew 13:57-58 (in Context) Matthew 13 (Whole Chapter)
        2. Matthew 17:20
          And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
          Matthew 17:19-21 (in Context) Matthew 17 (Whole Chapter)
        3. Mark 6:6
          And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.
          Mark 6:5-7 (in Context) Mark 6 (Whole Chapter)
        4. Mark 9:24
          And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
          Mark 9:23-25 (in Context) Mark 9 (Whole Chapter)
        5. Mark 16:14
          Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
          Mark 16:13-15 (in Context) Mark 16 (Whole Chapter)
        6. Romans 3:3
          For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
          Romans 3:2-4 (in Context) Romans 3 (Whole Chapter)
        7. Romans 4:20
          He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
          Romans 4:19-21 (in Context) Romans 4 (Whole Chapter)
        8. Romans 11:20
          Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
          Romans 11:19-21 (in Context) Romans 11 (Whole Chapter)
        9. Romans 11:23
          And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
          Romans 11:22-24 (in Context) Romans 11 (Whole Chapter)
        10. Romans 11:30
          For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
          Romans 11:29-31 (in Context) Romans 11 (Whole Chapter)
        11. Romans 11:32
          For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
          Romans 11:31-33 (in Context) Romans 11 (Whole Chapter)
        12. 1 Timothy 1:13
          Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
          1 Timothy 1:12-14 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)
        13. Hebrews 3:12
          Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
          Hebrews 3:11-13 (in Context) Hebrews 3 (Whole Chapter)
        14. Hebrews 3:19
          So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
          Hebrews 3:18-19 (in Context) Hebrews 3 (Whole Chapter)
        15. Hebrews 4:6
          Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
          Hebrews 4:5-7 (in Context) Hebrews 4 (Whole Chapter)
        16. Hebrews 4:11
          Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
          Hebrews 4:10-12 (in Context) Hebrews 4 (Whole Chapter)

         

        “they killed Him for blasphemy, a charge He never denied before them,  or before others in their "accusations" of Him not being "just a man" during His lifetime.   should i recount those as well,  or is the worship thing good enough for you? “  You are insane. This is your proof that Jesus Christ is God?

        You just do not see or hear. Here is the reason why:

        Romans 11:8
        (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
        Romans 11:7-9(in Context) Romans 11(Whole Chapter)

        Here is Jesus Christ The Son of God; The Tempter and Devils confessing he is the Son of God, the trial for saying he is the Son of God, and more:

        1. Matthew 4:3
          And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
          Matthew 4:2-4 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter)
        2. Matthew 4:6
          And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
          Matthew 4:5-7 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter)
        3. Matthew 8:29
          And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
          Matthew 8:28-30 (in Context) Matthew 8 (Whole Chapter)

         

        1. Matthew 14:33
          Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
          Matthew 14:32-34 (in Context) Matthew 14 (Whole Chapter)
        2. Matthew 14:33
          Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
          Matthew 14:32-34 (in Context) Matthew 14 (Whole Chapter)
        3. Matthew 16:16
          And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
          Matthew 16:15-17 (in Context) Matthew 16 (Whole Chapter)
        4. Matthew 26:63
          But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
          Matthew 26:62-64 (in Context) Matthew 26 (Whole Chapter)

         59Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;

         60But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,

         61And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

         62And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?

         63But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

         64Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

         65Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

         66What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

        1. Matthew 27:43
          He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
          Matthew 27:42-44 (in Context) Matthew 27 (Whole Chapter)
        2. Mark 1:1
          The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
          Mark 1:1-3 (in Context) Mark 1 (Whole Chapter)
        3. Mark 3:11
          And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.
          Mark 3:10-12 (in Context) Mark 3 (Whole Chapter)
        4. Mark 5:7
          And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
          Mark 5:6-8 (in Context) Mark 5 (Whole Chapter)
        5. Mark 15:39
          And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
          Mark 15:38-40 (in Context) Mark 15 (Whole Chapter)
        6. Luke 4:3
          And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
          Luke 4:2-4 (in Context) Luke 4 (Whole Chapter)
        7. Luke 4:9
          And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:
          Luke 4:8-10 (in Context) Luke 4 (Whole Chapter)
        8. Luke 4:41
          And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
          Luke 4:40-42 (in Context) Luke 4 (Whole Chapter)
        9. Luke 8:28
          When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
          Luke 8:27-29 (in Context) Luke 8 (Whole Chapter)
        10. Luke 12:8
          Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
          Luke 12:7-9 (in Context) Luke 12 (Whole Chapter)

        Jesus Christ is NOT GOD.

        DD

        ooooooh. a pretty comprehensive post.  finally, after pressing you on your unwillingness to come to the table about what you really believe,  you do.   and,  you spill it,  so that now all can see the inconsistentcy from which you have built your position.

        some reading these threads write this back and forth off to a "matter of opinion",  but there is FAR MORE on the line than an opinion.......the clear picture of who God is,  and what He desires about our life.

        just a smidgen of mis-information about that subject matter,  and you end up with 1,000's of religions/opinions,  so this back and forth is crucial. 

        that being said,  i wanna start my defense of your above "spillage" by thanking you for inadvertantly helping me make the case for Christ's own claims,  that He was God.   i am an efficient guy, or at least i try to be.  long winded sometimes, but i have this penchant to make sure i cover it COMPLETELY.  so that all angles are considered, and that renders a decision about the information i give out.

        (1) just as YOU stated,  by posting the scripture from biblegateway when Christ said "thou sayest".   not only DIDN'T He deny it, He confimed it,  when He further stated that "He was coming in the clouds with great glory, and power".

        ummmm DD,  God doesn't share His glory OR His power with another,  and that fact even standing alone singularly solidifies the Godhood - one person, manifested in 3 forms/personalities OF that "person". 

        like i said,  Christ received worship, and that fact alone trumps every wishful thinking scripture the cult you are in, has told you to pump out whenever someone states the already recorded claims of Christ.  (it has to be a cult, because cults teach that Jesus Christ "isn't" God,  so the cult can control thier minions thru their manufactured "works").

        you even made the case YOURSELF,  when you inadvertantly posted a scripture YOURSELF,  that even says contextually that they worshipped Christ......"Matthew 14:33
        Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

        thank you, DD.   worship.  God won't allow that to be attributable to ANYONE but Him, and you just proved my point.  made it "efficient" for me.

        they worshipped Him (referring TO Christ in the boat with them), while affirming Him to be God in the flesh (Son of God).  the term "Son of God" literally means "God who came in the flesh, the only begotten".   

        if you actually study biblical terminology, you would understand that the term "Son of God" is specially used to denote Christ's humanity.  Christ had to be flesh, in order to become one of us, so that He could take on the sins of the world "bodily".  if God didn't become flesh, the sacrifice would not have been "relateable" on any level.  we are called the "Sons of God' (plural),  because we are also flesh.  but Christ was the only one ever referred to as the "Son of God", in singular form.  measure that against the old testament priesthood and kingship, and that adds up to one thing .....God litterally becoming a man.

        Son of God literally means that Jesus was human, as well as devine. He rightfully possessed BOTH personhoods,  so that He could complete the function of the "Son" aspect in the trinity.

        raised Himself (I will raise this temple in 3 days)

        was worshipped by angels.  will preside judgement over every man.  another attribute that only God can hold.

        here is a two-fer-one deal for you,  how about the fact that not only was Christ worshipped, that He courted it and that He never ONCE squashed it......what about His ability to forgive sins.

        DD,  only God can forgive sins,  and Jesus Christ has that power. a power ONLY attributable to God

        i can appreciate the complexities that the Trinity first presents,  but if someone actually has the mind to persue it's theological end thru actual individual effort,  the doctrine collectively stands.

        you go to one of those pick a scripture here/thereand run with it cults, then yeah, you wind up with a convoluted mess.

        maybe you can rectify this ...

        hebrews 1:6   "and let all the angels of God worship Him".

        maybe i should post all the passages that denote the WORSHIP of Christ.

        and maybe you can address the fact that Christ forgives sin.  if there is anything you will run for the hills from,  it's that one.  Christ forgives sin.  that's a "game over"

                    "i am .........."meant to"       

        P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                 until further notice,  it's  france everyday

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          New York,
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          Posted: June 21, 2010, 2:28 pm - IP Logged

          booboo i dont complain about it  its just an observation. And to be 100% honest with all of u i dont give a rat ... about ur belives im warrying only about my self and how i live , and if some wonts to go to church and jump like monkey and freaking pretend like they just got hollyspiryt in them then be my guess, not my problem so i really dont understand why u people argue ?????? this mean that all of u think u right and other person is wrongm, there is a word that describe those type of people :):):)

          You are absolutely right!!!  The Bible already tell us not to do this! in

          2-Timothy 2:23 but foolish and unlearned questions Avoid knowing that they do produce Strife

          To those who understands that it is not a question of religion  but of a daily relationship with ALMIGHTY GOD their creator...no explenation is necessary!

          To those who will not accept this and want to be religious, or unbelieving, no amount of explenation is possible!!

          forget what "they" say about youWhat you say about you?...

          Now, does it count??

           

           

          *Jr$ina

            visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
            light on my feet
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            Posted: June 21, 2010, 2:37 pm - IP Logged

            Hey vision,

            You’re blind in one eye and can’t see out the other.

            I am a joint heir with Jesus Christ who is my brother. We have the same heavenly Father. Christ is the head of the body of Christ. He is my lord. Our Father is the one true God.

            You go ahead and bank on a three headed goat-god if you want. I have family.

            I know why you do not hear or see what I have presented you before in posts. To begin with, you got the wrong god and wrong spiritual influence, even if you talk the book.

            “just to keep you on the hook,  you have yet to answer how Christ raised Himself from the dead.  you ran from that one.”

            He did not raise himself from the dead, moron. You got pigs in the parlor.

            1. Acts 4:10
              Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
              Acts 4:9-11 (in Context) Acts 4 (Whole Chapter)
            2. Acts 13:30
              But God raised him from the dead:
              Acts 13:29-31 (in Context) Acts 13 (Whole Chapter)
            3. Acts 13:34
              And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
              Acts 13:33-35 (in Context) Acts 13 (Whole Chapter)
            4. Acts 17:31
              Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
              Acts 17:30-32 (in Context) Acts 17 (Whole Chapter)
            5. Romans 4:24
              But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
              Romans 4:23-25 (in Context) Romans 4 (Whole Chapter)
            6. Romans 6:4
              Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
              Romans 6:3-5 (in Context) Romans 6 (Whole Chapter)
            7. Romans 8:11
              But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
              Romans 8:10-12 (in Context) Romans 8 (Whole Chapter)
            8. Romans 10:9
              That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
              Romans 10:8-10 (in Context) Romans 10 (Whole Chapter)
            9. Galatians 1:1
              Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
              Galatians 1:1-3 (in Context) Galatians 1 (Whole Chapter)
            10. Ephesians 1:20
              Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
              Ephesians 1:19-21 (in Context) Ephesians 1 (Whole Chapter)
            11. Colossians 2:12
              Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
              Colossians 2:11-13 (in Context) Colossians 2 (Whole Chapter)
            12. 1 Peter 1:21
              Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
              1 Peter 1:20-22 (in Context) 1 Peter 1 (Whole Chapter)

             

            “and you ran from qualifying your prosperity position,  by not explaining why people aren't "healed" “

            Here you go bible expert: Need a clue?

            1. Matthew 13:58
              And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
              Matthew 13:57-58 (in Context) Matthew 13 (Whole Chapter)
            2. Matthew 17:20
              And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
              Matthew 17:19-21 (in Context) Matthew 17 (Whole Chapter)
            3. Mark 6:6
              And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.
              Mark 6:5-7 (in Context) Mark 6 (Whole Chapter)
            4. Mark 9:24
              And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
              Mark 9:23-25 (in Context) Mark 9 (Whole Chapter)
            5. Mark 16:14
              Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
              Mark 16:13-15 (in Context) Mark 16 (Whole Chapter)
            6. Romans 3:3
              For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
              Romans 3:2-4 (in Context) Romans 3 (Whole Chapter)
            7. Romans 4:20
              He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
              Romans 4:19-21 (in Context) Romans 4 (Whole Chapter)
            8. Romans 11:20
              Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
              Romans 11:19-21 (in Context) Romans 11 (Whole Chapter)
            9. Romans 11:23
              And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
              Romans 11:22-24 (in Context) Romans 11 (Whole Chapter)
            10. Romans 11:30
              For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
              Romans 11:29-31 (in Context) Romans 11 (Whole Chapter)
            11. Romans 11:32
              For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
              Romans 11:31-33 (in Context) Romans 11 (Whole Chapter)
            12. 1 Timothy 1:13
              Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
              1 Timothy 1:12-14 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)
            13. Hebrews 3:12
              Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
              Hebrews 3:11-13 (in Context) Hebrews 3 (Whole Chapter)
            14. Hebrews 3:19
              So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
              Hebrews 3:18-19 (in Context) Hebrews 3 (Whole Chapter)
            15. Hebrews 4:6
              Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
              Hebrews 4:5-7 (in Context) Hebrews 4 (Whole Chapter)
            16. Hebrews 4:11
              Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
              Hebrews 4:10-12 (in Context) Hebrews 4 (Whole Chapter)

             

            “they killed Him for blasphemy, a charge He never denied before them,  or before others in their "accusations" of Him not being "just a man" during His lifetime.   should i recount those as well,  or is the worship thing good enough for you? “  You are insane. This is your proof that Jesus Christ is God?

            You just do not see or hear. Here is the reason why:

            Romans 11:8
            (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
            Romans 11:7-9(in Context) Romans 11(Whole Chapter)

            Here is Jesus Christ The Son of God; The Tempter and Devils confessing he is the Son of God, the trial for saying he is the Son of God, and more:

            1. Matthew 4:3
              And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
              Matthew 4:2-4 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter)
            2. Matthew 4:6
              And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
              Matthew 4:5-7 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter)
            3. Matthew 8:29
              And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
              Matthew 8:28-30 (in Context) Matthew 8 (Whole Chapter)

             

            1. Matthew 14:33
              Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
              Matthew 14:32-34 (in Context) Matthew 14 (Whole Chapter)
            2. Matthew 14:33
              Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
              Matthew 14:32-34 (in Context) Matthew 14 (Whole Chapter)
            3. Matthew 16:16
              And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
              Matthew 16:15-17 (in Context) Matthew 16 (Whole Chapter)
            4. Matthew 26:63
              But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
              Matthew 26:62-64 (in Context) Matthew 26 (Whole Chapter)

             59Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;

             60But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,

             61And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

             62And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?

             63But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

             64Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

             65Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

             66What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

            1. Matthew 27:43
              He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
              Matthew 27:42-44 (in Context) Matthew 27 (Whole Chapter)
            2. Mark 1:1
              The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
              Mark 1:1-3 (in Context) Mark 1 (Whole Chapter)
            3. Mark 3:11
              And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.
              Mark 3:10-12 (in Context) Mark 3 (Whole Chapter)
            4. Mark 5:7
              And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
              Mark 5:6-8 (in Context) Mark 5 (Whole Chapter)
            5. Mark 15:39
              And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
              Mark 15:38-40 (in Context) Mark 15 (Whole Chapter)
            6. Luke 4:3
              And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
              Luke 4:2-4 (in Context) Luke 4 (Whole Chapter)
            7. Luke 4:9
              And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:
              Luke 4:8-10 (in Context) Luke 4 (Whole Chapter)
            8. Luke 4:41
              And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
              Luke 4:40-42 (in Context) Luke 4 (Whole Chapter)
            9. Luke 8:28
              When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
              Luke 8:27-29 (in Context) Luke 8 (Whole Chapter)
            10. Luke 12:8
              Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
              Luke 12:7-9 (in Context) Luke 12 (Whole Chapter)

            Jesus Christ is NOT GOD.

            DD

            i have to include the quotes above so that you will know what i am referencing, but thank todd for making them retractable so you don't have to scroll thru every line to get to the "meat".   the improvements since i have been gone are good :)

            anyway DD,  you finally spilled it about that nasty component to the prosperity doctrine - that well,  you just didn't have "enough faith".   i can't tell you how much i abhor that unbiblical teaching,  because like i said, people are leaving thier realtionships with God over that garbage teaching over something He "didn't do".

            "oh well, i tried".  "i prayed and tithed".  "i believed God for it to happen with EVERYTHING i have within me, yet it STILL didn't happen".......followed by cursing God,  then ending up most likely were joker is...

            unbelief can be a roadblock to all that God "can" do,  but the blessing of God are NOT interdepedant on us, as it is upon His grace/mercy. 

            disobedience can short change a person to all that God desires to do thru a mans life as well,  but in your cultic teaching,  you gravely infer that "unbelief" equals "not enough faith, so THAT'S why i didn't happen".

            that's a lie.  no actually,  that's a HEINOUS lie.  one of the worst. 

            there are a gazillion people that cast every ounce of their being WITH their faith toward God,  believing at that time that God can literally do anything,  and yet he "didn't"

            that is a lie,  that you just don't have enough faith, and therefore it "didn't"

            i don't want to be anywhere near that teaching,  or being an accessory to the crime of selling false hope.

            "if you are meant to.  you will.  if you are not, you won't".  that's sound biblical principles.

            anything beyond that.......is false hope.

            believe God for EVERYTHING.  trust Him for EVERYTHING.  but adjust to His trust, if it "doesn't".

            unbelief my 2 good eyes

            VISION-20/20-DUDE

                        "i am .........."meant to"       

            P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                     until further notice,  it's  france everyday

              visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
              light on my feet
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              Posted: June 21, 2010, 2:40 pm - IP Logged

              booboo i dont complain about it  its just an observation. And to be 100% honest with all of u i dont give a rat ... about ur belives im warrying only about my self and how i live , and if some wonts to go to church and jump like monkey and freaking pretend like they just got hollyspiryt in them then be my guess, not my problem so i really dont understand why u people argue ?????? this mean that all of u think u right and other person is wrongm, there is a word that describe those type of people :):):)

              not a problem

              i was just making the observation as well - that no one can pin on God, for mans failures.

              has nothing to do with opinion.  it's just common sense.  you can apply that premise outside of religion just as judiciously.

              VISION

                          "i am .........."meant to"       

              P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                       until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                Chief Bottle Washer
                New Jersey
                United States
                Member #1
                May 31, 2000
                23275 Posts
                Online
                Posted: June 21, 2010, 8:18 pm - IP Logged

                visiondude,

                Nice to see you again. 

                I located that binaculars/eyes image on the Internet that you used in your signature, and gave it a permanent home here at LP so it will no longer appear "broken" (missing).  Anyone with a member number as low as you (#357) who is still hanging around deserves no less, don't you think?

                -Todd

                 

                Check the State Lottery Report Card
                What grade did your lottery earn?

                 

                Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                  visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                  light on my feet
                  United States
                  Member #356
                  May 20, 2002
                  2744 Posts
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                  Posted: June 21, 2010, 8:43 pm - IP Logged

                  if the chief bottle washer declares it so,  whom am i to argue with the gatekeeper?

                    i really liked the image when i had it,  both because it fell within the "vision" theme,  but it also had that odd-ball goofy bent to it.  a side of me that few get to see in here,  because i am focused on the issues, etc.   people probably think i am some rigid robot that doesn't fart, or something (yes, i do. ALOT).  i dunno.  not too many people in life have as much fun as i do, it's just that i know where i stand, etc.

                  what does demonstrate how long it's been since i left, is that i could not remember what that little box with the red "X" contained.

                  i couldn't for the life of me remember what that was.  so that was a nice surprise.  i appreciate it that you did that.  THANKS

                  any chance you can get "easy money" to join the reunion?

                  vision-intheflesh-dude

                              "i am .........."meant to"       

                  P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                           until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                    visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                    light on my feet
                    United States
                    Member #356
                    May 20, 2002
                    2744 Posts
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                    Posted: June 21, 2010, 9:14 pm - IP Logged

                    DD,  you need to answer the question, how Jesus Christ received worship, courted worship, and never did or said anything to squash it.    the fact that WE are called to worship Him,  that solidifies Him being God.  can you refute that?

                    if you want,  i can more than provide a whole gaggle of scriptures that specifically state/address the thumbs UP about worshipping Christ.   do i need to?   what i like to do,  so you will know my methodology in a debate, is i like to throw a "card" out here or there.  never all the cards at once,  because that keeps people more honest,  because then, when the full deck come out, there is no escaping that COLLECTIVE reality.

                    that's why i asked joker "should i do it", instead of just doing it upfront.  that methodology also demonstrates a mans true intent.  I.E.,  are they really looking for "a" truth, or are they yanking your chain for ego sport?  same with you.  i get to show all the "cards", AND, i get to demonstrate your true thinking/intent.

                    worship of Christ.  thumbs up biblically, or thumbs down?

                    *************************************************************************************************

                    here are a few more of my cards that i JACKED from men (from a website), who are smarter than me. 

                    i know these things intellectually, but having forgotton some of them, it's nice to affirm my position in cement, by revisiting them.   and they are...

                    Christ possessed the attributes of God...

                    (1) omniprescence (everywhere at one time, post resurrection)

                    (2) omniscience (all knowing of past, current and future events)

                    (3) omnipotence (having universal power OVER mankind/creation)

                    (4) pre existence (had been God,  prior to becoming flesh)

                    (5) from eternalness (had to look up that one.  but it's meaning is ONLY God has "no beginning")

                    (6) possessed the same authority as God

                    (7) received worship (my favorite,  because it alone is the "deal sealer")

                    (8) had authority to resurrect Himself

                    (9) spoke as God

                    (10) shared the SAME names/titles/cultural descriptions as designated ONLY to God.

                    they are (not in any order)....Husband.  Shepard. Creator. Giver of Life. Forgiver of sins. Lord the Healer. Yahweh. I AM. God. Alpha and Omega. The First, and the Last. Lord. Savior. King. Judge. Light. Rock. Redeemer. Lord our Righteousness,  etc

                    notice how i capitalized those names?  i only bother to capitalize things that pertain to God.  otherwise, i ooze literary laziness, and that becomes evident in my DIS-INTEREST in spell check.

                    that fact insures i maintain my "uniqueness"

                    you have some SPLAIN'IN to duuuuuuuuuuuuuuu,  DD. 

                    on both accounts ("unbelief" & "Christ isn't God")

                                "i am .........."meant to"       

                    P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                             until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                      jarasan's avatar - new patrick.gif
                      Harbinger
                      D.C./MD.
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                      Member #44103
                      July 30, 2006
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                      Posted: June 21, 2010, 10:02 pm - IP Logged

                      visiondude,

                      Nice to see you again. 

                      I located that binaculars/eyes image on the Internet that you used in your signature, and gave it a permanent home here at LP so it will no longer appear "broken" (missing).  Anyone with a member number as low as you (#357) who is still hanging around deserves no less, don't you think?

                      -Todd

                      Sweet binox!  And .357 caliber at that!

                      Instead of binox put a scope on the .357.  This particular 60's Ruger .357 will have one praying if it is pointed at them.  This definitely is not a hunters first choice.... hence the scope,  helps a lot after 25 yds. or so if needed.  This particular side arm is excellent in the woods close range,  in case your long gun is not ready and you have a wild hog boar man bear pig charging you.

                      .357 Kablooey! Stopping power!

                        visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                        light on my feet
                        United States
                        Member #356
                        May 20, 2002
                        2744 Posts
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                        Posted: June 21, 2010, 11:24 pm - IP Logged

                        yikes.

                        my "aim" is to grant life, not take it away (lol). 

                        that pic could spawn that 'my gun is bigger than you're gun' pictorial warfare.

                        plus, i don't recall in any of those movie westerns,  where the good guys took on the black hats from 100yds or more with a pistol ever having sights like that on their gunnage.  so,  me thinks that's a bit visually on the overkill side :)

                        i LOVE this quote,  and wish more people would adhere to it...

                        "don't bring a knife, to a gunfight"

                        here is one i just made up, in honor of your above "visual deterrent"...

                        "if your aim is good to begin with,  you don't need a scope"

                        (1st visiondude 3:22)

                                    "i am .........."meant to"       

                        P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                                 until further notice,  it's  france everyday


                          United States
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                          Posted: June 21, 2010, 11:31 pm - IP Logged

                          joker

                          I have nothing to prove, not once in this post have I even tried.  Now I ask you to prove God does not

                          exist.  I keep waiting to hear somthing from you that anybody with a computer can't get from a google

                          search.  Somthing original, not found on the web or cable news show.  I have to admit I expected more

                          from you.  All of your replies echo a google search mingled with old news.  Lets say no God exsist then

                          why even talk about it.  And the 20,000 kids a day, what are you doing to help them.  How much have

                          you sent to help feed them.  You set there and blame a God that doesn't exist for a  problem that you

                          do nothing about.  I think the clock is up to around 60,000 to 80,000 and counting since this post

                          started.  I would like to thank you for all the people that you have convinced that God does not exist

                          as now they won't be helping the poor dying kids either.  I hope this has been more fun for you than

                          it has been for me. LOL

                          RL

                          First of all, the burden of proof is not on my shoulders. Second, the reason I posted that article was because Vision dude asked me to google about the 300 prophecies of Jesus. So get your story straight before you write.

                          What I've learned over the years was from investigation I've done,  not to echo what I've learned, but read it from the pros, who were a little more articulate than I was. I didn't need google or any other source when I learned about common sense regarding the inconsistencies in the Bible and religion in general. Only after that point, did I truly investigate. Surely I sometimes repeat what I've learned....so what? If that's your biggest defense.....I have nothing to worry about....

                          I was trying to be cordial when I first decided to post in this thread because I respect Todd's site. But if the hostility increases, I can turn it up a notch too.

                          I don't need to prove anything to anybody. You folks can keep believing in your fairytales for all I care.

                           You never specifically address the points I bring up because you can't answer them. Your best effort is to keep bringing up what I can do for the 20,000 kids. You simply don't get the big picture....

                          Take the blinders off. You'll be able to have better peripheral vision.

                            jarasan's avatar - new patrick.gif
                            Harbinger
                            D.C./MD.
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                            5583 Posts
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                            Posted: June 21, 2010, 11:34 pm - IP Logged

                            No,  it ain't no cowboy gun!  Clint Eastwood made the .44 Magnum famous during his role of Officer Harry Callahan during the 70's San Francisco,  the .357 is the little brother of the .44,  less caliber more velocity.


                              United States
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                              June 1, 2009
                              5345 Posts
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                              Posted: June 21, 2010, 11:44 pm - IP Logged

                              The joker likes to think his logic is conclusive and can somehow influence,  change, or seem enlightened to the average viewer............unfortunately his debate excludes more than it concludes anything.  For eg. he will NOT acknowledge that he WILL find out the the answer to all this when he dies,  simple as that,  he avoids that fact/truth like the plague.  He cannot write:  "Hey you are right,  we'll find out in the end, all of us!"

                              I can't possibly reason with folks who don't use reasoning as a basis to make decisions when it comes to religion. It's impossible to do.

                              I know I said in earlier posts that I was done, but this time I'm really done.

                              I'll just sit back and watch the parade of delusional posts.

                              For me to debate a creationist, is like a Geologist debating  a flat Earth believer. It just won't work.

                              I'm gonna stock up on some popcorn.

                               

                                 
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