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Praying?

Topic closed. 421 replies. Last post 6 years ago by visiondude.

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Posted: June 21, 2010, 12:35 am - IP Logged

Hey Zombies, (Singular)

"and your way of dealing with something you don't like is to disingenuienly try and dismiss it, in hopes that it will go away,  so that you won't have to.  nope. 

intellectual integrity in a debate means you deal with the data placed before you,  whether or not you are antagonistic toward it, or not."

intellectual integrity? How about having an integrity for what is written in the book? You are more upset of being misquoted, but you handle the book worse than the unlearned.

Did you understand my last post in response to your fabrications?

2 Timothy 4:3 (King James Version)

  3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

DD

    visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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    Posted: June 21, 2010, 12:44 am - IP Logged

    i do want to make a case for "proof" about God,  because even Christians make that statement that "no one can prove there is a God".

    i whole heartedly (and respectfully disagree).

    why?   because Gods word is filled with infalliable proofs of Himself thru the methodology that joker is allowing me to describe.

    it were just a matter of "faith",  than that premise would subject it to human emotion and opinion, and we all know how up and down and all around that is.

    "faith" is a component OF belief, but the belief in something must still be based in FACT,  or otherwise the faith component has no teeth.

    God knows that He could not allow the free-for-all of what a "faith only" based belief in Him would lead.  straight to chaos.

    God went to great lengths to ensure that wouldn't happen, and that's why you have prophecy.  you have the actual life of Christ recorded in history, etc.    the facts you build on totally removes the human element of faith, because faith always wavers with whom ever persues it.  one day you have a ON of faith.  one day you have NONE.  facts never change,  so that is your foundation.

    i built my entire premise of faith on one historical event - the prophesied life, death and ressurection of Christ.  because history allows me to be aware of that FACT,  i now how something solid for which to aim my 'faith".

    faith comes afterward.  after the fact, and not before.  most people think it boild down to an opinion.  it doesn't.  it boils down to a fact ,  then it builds from there.

    i believe,  because there is factual evidence TO believe.  my faith builds as those facts grow, and God keeps doing what He says He would.

    so now,  our whole premise of what we believe is based in historical evidence.  it is NOT "faith based"

    that is another reason why the beginning of this thread was compelling, because what does "prayer" mean, and do,  for the believer?    it should be to facilitate what God has to say about Himself, on any subject matter, and then we adjust to that.

    facts then faith

                "i am .........."meant to"       

    P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

             until further notice,  it's  france everyday

      RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

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      Posted: June 21, 2010, 12:47 am - IP Logged

      There nakedness must have been a sin before, If it was a sin,  but God had not allow them to see it

      If he didn't allow them to see it, how can he Blame them for it?

      As if, there's a God who creates the universe, and has nothing better to do than play mind games. Silly.......

      joker

      He didn't,  they blamed them selves.   They hid from God knowing that they were unclean.  It was them

      knowing that drove them from God, not the other way around.  This could not be undone until  Jesus, the

      2nd Adam.  Jesus became the bridge for man to return back to God, and without him there is no other

      way. When we accept him as our Lord and Savior the Only Son of GOD  We receive his rigteousness like

      a covering and with this new coat we are not ashamed and can come back to him without the shame

      of our uncleanness.  Adam and Eve were driven from the garden so that they could die.  The tree of life

      was in the mist of the garden and if they were allowed to eat from it they would forever live apart from

      God.  Why did it take so long for  Jesus To come to earth, I don't know but It might have been a time of

      preparation.  Why did God put the garden where the tree of knowledge of good and evil was, maybe it

      was because the tree of life was there also.  Free will and free choice are not the same thing. They

      were told that eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil would cause them to die.  God is

      not playing a game as your 20,000 kids each day show.  We need a Savior and God provided one in

      Jesus.  

       

      We are talking about the bible now, Not one of the 100000000000 other examples.  You asked, this

      is my reply.

      RL

      Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

      I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

      they are not.  Many great discoveries come while searching for something else

      USAF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Base_Engineer_Emergency_Force

        US Flag Trump / 2016 & 2020  

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        Posted: June 21, 2010, 1:01 am - IP Logged

        The rapture is nowhere in the Bible. That was created by wishful thinkers.

        that is completely not true.

        enoch is one example that could go either way as to what happened (because i am honest intellectually when re-counting events so that it doesn't just favor "my position"),  but theologians premise that enoch WAS raptured,  because it refers to him being "no more",  in referencing the end of his life,  but yet the writer does not recount a "burial" of enoch.  so they concur that he was "raptured".  his body was never found.

        but, elijah was "raptured".   the bible (recorded history) states specifically that elijah was physically extracted from earth without dying.  2nd kings i believe.  written somewhere around 700bc, in case you were wondering "when".

        plus,  other new testament scriptures that denote a rapture like occurance - in future tense form.

        is the word "rapture' in the bible?  no.

        had you said that,  you would have been honest.   if you don't know for sure,  it's not a great idea to comment as if you know.

        just sayin, joker

                    "i am .........."meant to"       

        P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                 until further notice,  it's  france everyday


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          Posted: June 21, 2010, 1:23 am - IP Logged

          Hey Visionquest.

          “because Gods word is filled with infalliable (SP) proofs of Himself”

          And what of the verse you use for proof that J.C. was killed for saying he was God that is in the same context where he said he was misquoted in a blasphemous fashion and declared he said he was only the Son of God? NOT GOD!

          “ "faith" is a component OF belief, but the belief in something must still be based in FACT,  or otherwise the faith component has no teeth.”

          Close but no cigar. Facts are everyday documented events but Truth is something else. Base you belief on facts and no cigar. Base them on Truth and now you got something to sink your teeth into.

          Face it you are side stepping what I documented. This is not arguing. You fail to face the fact that the truth does not reside in your thinking. You have a very complex belief system based on what you think is in the book and are very sincere about it. Sincerity is no guarantee for truth. Stagnant thinking.

          Jeremiah 2:13
          For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

          The cisterns are complex belief systems that leak and do not provide when needed while God is likened to a fountain of living waters. No stagnant reserves.  God describes the evil, not me.

          You got zeal, no doubt! What does zeal and stupidity have in common?

          Romans 10:2
          For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

          Your elaborate thinking is founded on bad teaching and you want to promote that like it is truth. You are as sincere as a heart attack. 

          You are all nice and white and fluffy like a marshmallow, but pure poison.

          DD

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            Posted: June 21, 2010, 1:36 am - IP Logged

            visiondude

            Great answer.

            the difference between a a man who follows Christianity the "religion", and Christ the "PERSON"? eternity.

            These verses show this is correct Bible teaching.

            matt 7 vs 22 and 23

            Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

            And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

            thanks.

            it's true,  and you can tell by the flow of joker's assertions that He lumps Christianity in with all the other "religions",  which in a sense,  can actually grant him an actual CORRECT statement about Christianity.

            you can practice Christianity "the religion" for years,  and completely miss the PERSON (and finished work) of Christ.

             a result that leads to eternal seperation from God.  hell for the politically UNcorrect crowd

                        "i am .........."meant to"       

            P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                     until further notice,  it's  france everyday


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              Posted: June 21, 2010, 1:39 am - IP Logged

              Hey Z!

              Can you document this for me? I cannot find that one in the book.

              " hell for the politically UNcorrect crowd"

              DD

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                Posted: June 21, 2010, 1:47 am - IP Logged

                Re: rapture not being in the Bible.......it's in Greek, harpazo, read on.....

                Rapture in: 1 Thessalonians4, 1 Corinthians 15:

                There is no debate that 1 Thessalonians 4, and 1 Corinthians 15 teachon the rapture.  Both chapters also teach the resurrection and ofthe trumpet blast.  Neither chapter mentions anything about havingto endure the tribulation before the rapture comes.  There is no debatethat Revelation 19 and Zechariah 14 teach on the physical return of theLord Jesus Christ in power after the tribulation.  Neither of thosechapters speak of the rapture, nor of a resurrection, nor of a trumpetblast.

                1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the wordof the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of theLord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
                1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend fromheaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with thetrumpof God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
                1 Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shallbe caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lordin the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
                1 Thess 4:18 Therefore comfort one another withthese words.

                [caught up=HARPAZO=Rapture]

                Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                Lep

                There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.


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                  Posted: June 21, 2010, 1:55 am - IP Logged

                  Re: rapture not being in the Bible.......it's in Greek, harpazo, read on.....

                  Rapture in: 1 Thessalonians4, 1 Corinthians 15:

                  There is no debate that 1 Thessalonians 4, and 1 Corinthians 15 teachon the rapture.  Both chapters also teach the resurrection and ofthe trumpet blast.  Neither chapter mentions anything about havingto endure the tribulation before the rapture comes.  There is no debatethat Revelation 19 and Zechariah 14 teach on the physical return of theLord Jesus Christ in power after the tribulation.  Neither of thosechapters speak of the rapture, nor of a resurrection, nor of a trumpetblast.

                  1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the wordof the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of theLord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
                  1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend fromheaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with thetrumpof God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
                  1 Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shallbe caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lordin the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
                  1 Thess 4:18 Therefore comfort one another withthese words.

                  [caught up=HARPAZO=Rapture]

                  There you are! Excellent!

                  It appears the usage of the word rapture is to describe a future event in simplified layman’s terms. Not found in the scriptures as an english word but it does communicate greater truths in the greek.

                  DD

                  PS I bought some QP’s last night, Have not checked them yet. LOL

                    visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                    Posted: June 21, 2010, 1:55 am - IP Logged

                    Hey Zombies, (Singular)

                    "and your way of dealing with something you don't like is to disingenuienly try and dismiss it, in hopes that it will go away,  so that you won't have to.  nope. 

                    intellectual integrity in a debate means you deal with the data placed before you,  whether or not you are antagonistic toward it, or not."

                    intellectual integrity? How about having an integrity for what is written in the book? You are more upset of being misquoted, but you handle the book worse than the unlearned.

                    Did you understand my last post in response to your fabrications?

                    2 Timothy 4:3 (King James Version)

                      3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

                    DD

                    DD, i sure did.  i more than did, and kept on track per our discussion by asking you repeatedly to qualify 2 things you still refuse to do,  and you keep deflecting from so you think you don't have to.

                    i will note your continued feigned arrogance as means to paint to the reading audience the character for whom i am dealing with, because afterall DD,  you can't even begin to affirm your position, if all you do is call names and cut-and-run on statements /claims YOU made.

                    i thought of you today when i ecountered these 3 guys wearing t-shirts outside a busy mall that read "judgement day may21st 2011".   they said "because the bible teaches that". 

                    i said really?  it does?  where?

                    they said "here is the pamphlet.  it says it in there".

                    i said "i don't wanna know what the pamphlet says as much as i wanna know why YOU believe that, and claim the bible teaches that,  when Christ clearly stated no man knows the day, nor the hour".

                    to make a long story short, after imploring them to defend their position THEMSELVES,  they refused,  because they couldn't do it.

                    reminded me of our exchange.  you refuse,  because you either can't,  or you don't know,  so you resort (still) to ame calling and deflection.   that's called having "no position for which you CAN defend"

                    anyway,  to put your assertion to rest that Christ "isn't God" (according to you),  the angels worship God.  the 3 wise men showed up at the geographical location i pointed out to joker, and they "worshipped Him". 

                    Jesus Christ received worship, and never ONCE tried to squash it.  if He wasn't "God",  then He would have straight up.

                    in revelations,  we bow down and worship Him.

                    worship.   that alone is the complete undoing of your claims that Christ "wasn't God".

                    just to keep you on the hook,  you have yet to answer how Christ raised Himself from the dead.  you ran from that one.

                    and you ran from qualifying your prosperity position,  by not explaining why people aren't "healed"

                    straight up DD,  you are wasting your time.  until you can qualify your own claims,  it's all smoke, and no mirror

                                "i am .........."meant to"       

                    P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                             until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                      visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                      Posted: June 21, 2010, 2:29 am - IP Logged

                      Hey Visionquest.

                      “because Gods word is filled with infalliable (SP) proofs of Himself”

                      And what of the verse you use for proof that J.C. was killed for saying he was God that is in the same context where he said he was misquoted in a blasphemous fashion and declared he said he was only the Son of God? NOT GOD!

                      “ "faith" is a component OF belief, but the belief in something must still be based in FACT,  or otherwise the faith component has no teeth.”

                      Close but no cigar. Facts are everyday documented events but Truth is something else. Base you belief on facts and no cigar. Base them on Truth and now you got something to sink your teeth into.

                      Face it you are side stepping what I documented. This is not arguing. You fail to face the fact that the truth does not reside in your thinking. You have a very complex belief system based on what you think is in the book and are very sincere about it. Sincerity is no guarantee for truth. Stagnant thinking.

                      Jeremiah 2:13
                      For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

                      The cisterns are complex belief systems that leak and do not provide when needed while God is likened to a fountain of living waters. No stagnant reserves.  God describes the evil, not me.

                      You got zeal, no doubt! What does zeal and stupidity have in common?

                      Romans 10:2
                      For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

                      Your elaborate thinking is founded on bad teaching and you want to promote that like it is truth. You are as sincere as a heart attack. 

                      You are all nice and white and fluffy like a marshmallow, but pure poison.

                      DD

                      "visionquest".  now that's more like it,  and far more accurate than your childish jabs.  i am on a "quest" to gain as much "vision" as i can about the things of God (while still NOT becoming a blithering fact spitting robot), so that can help other people with their "vision".   so yeah, thanks.

                      typical of people with out a defensible position,  you purposefully twist my words, and what i said about that particular verse.  it clearly states the accusers of Jesus Christ called him blasphemous FOR making HIMSELF out to be equal to God. 

                      they killed Him for blasphemy, a charge He never denied before them,  or before others in their "accusations" of Him not being "just a man" during His lifetime.   should i recount those as well,  or is the worship thing good enough for you?

                      maybe you should also do some research about the meaning of Christ.  it isn't His last name.

                      oh, and you read it,  but you still didn't answer the one thing that shows you have zip idea what you are talking about,  and that is Jesus Christ not only receieved worship,  but i forgot to mention,  He courted it.

                      ************************************************************************************************

                        anyone that promotes the prosperity doctrine,  but cannot defend it,  i am supposed to take que's from as far as facts vs "truth"?

                      ahhhh no.  my aim is to completely avoid the meery-go-around that swirls wildy, based on my emotion of that day.  no thanks

                      your "truths" are obviously derived from a subjective place,  based solely on what you WANT to believe,  vs what IS factual.

                      that's what prosperity proponents do - they base their "theology" totally in what they feel,  and that makes "truth" subjective.

                      facts lead to truth,  because truth is collective over time. 

                      (facts) who Jesus Christ claimed to be - (truth) He really IS who He claimed to be.

                      DD,  you need to get your FACTS straight,  before you stand any chance of trying to sell your brand of "truth"

                                  "i am .........."meant to"       

                      P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                               until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                        visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                        Posted: June 21, 2010, 2:34 am - IP Logged

                        Hey Z!

                        Can you document this for me? I cannot find that one in the book.

                        " hell for the politically UNcorrect crowd"

                        DD

                        not in 'the book".  made it up on the fly.  do you like it?  feel free to use it then,  but make sure you quote me IN CONTEXT.

                        you have a bad habit of fading in and out of that simple edict.

                        "hell for the politically UNcorrect crowd was purposefully aimed at people that always say ....."oh no.  don't talk about those things.  that's too harsh".  etc

                                    "i am .........."meant to"       

                        P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                                 until further notice,  it's  france everyday


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                          Posted: June 21, 2010, 3:21 am - IP Logged

                          Hey vision,

                          You’re blind in one eye and can’t see out the other.

                          I am a joint heir with Jesus Christ who is my brother. We have the same heavenly Father. Christ is the head of the body of Christ. He is my lord. Our Father is the one true God.

                          You go ahead and bank on a three headed goat-god if you want. I have family.

                          I know why you do not hear or see what I have presented you before in posts. To begin with, you got the wrong god and wrong spiritual influence, even if you talk the book.

                          “just to keep you on the hook,  you have yet to answer how Christ raised Himself from the dead.  you ran from that one.”

                          He did not raise himself from the dead, moron. You got pigs in the parlor.

                          1. Acts 4:10
                            Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
                            Acts 4:9-11 (in Context) Acts 4 (Whole Chapter)
                          2. Acts 13:30
                            But God raised him from the dead:
                            Acts 13:29-31 (in Context) Acts 13 (Whole Chapter)
                          3. Acts 13:34
                            And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
                            Acts 13:33-35 (in Context) Acts 13 (Whole Chapter)
                          4. Acts 17:31
                            Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
                            Acts 17:30-32 (in Context) Acts 17 (Whole Chapter)
                          5. Romans 4:24
                            But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
                            Romans 4:23-25 (in Context) Romans 4 (Whole Chapter)
                          6. Romans 6:4
                            Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
                            Romans 6:3-5 (in Context) Romans 6 (Whole Chapter)
                          7. Romans 8:11
                            But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
                            Romans 8:10-12 (in Context) Romans 8 (Whole Chapter)
                          8. Romans 10:9
                            That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
                            Romans 10:8-10 (in Context) Romans 10 (Whole Chapter)
                          9. Galatians 1:1
                            Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
                            Galatians 1:1-3 (in Context) Galatians 1 (Whole Chapter)
                          10. Ephesians 1:20
                            Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
                            Ephesians 1:19-21 (in Context) Ephesians 1 (Whole Chapter)
                          11. Colossians 2:12
                            Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
                            Colossians 2:11-13 (in Context) Colossians 2 (Whole Chapter)
                          12. 1 Peter 1:21
                            Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
                            1 Peter 1:20-22 (in Context) 1 Peter 1 (Whole Chapter)

                           

                          “and you ran from qualifying your prosperity position,  by not explaining why people aren't "healed" “

                          Here you go bible expert: Need a clue?

                          1. Matthew 13:58
                            And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
                            Matthew 13:57-58 (in Context) Matthew 13 (Whole Chapter)
                          2. Matthew 17:20
                            And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
                            Matthew 17:19-21 (in Context) Matthew 17 (Whole Chapter)
                          3. Mark 6:6
                            And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.
                            Mark 6:5-7 (in Context) Mark 6 (Whole Chapter)
                          4. Mark 9:24
                            And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
                            Mark 9:23-25 (in Context) Mark 9 (Whole Chapter)
                          5. Mark 16:14
                            Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
                            Mark 16:13-15 (in Context) Mark 16 (Whole Chapter)
                          6. Romans 3:3
                            For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
                            Romans 3:2-4 (in Context) Romans 3 (Whole Chapter)
                          7. Romans 4:20
                            He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
                            Romans 4:19-21 (in Context) Romans 4 (Whole Chapter)
                          8. Romans 11:20
                            Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
                            Romans 11:19-21 (in Context) Romans 11 (Whole Chapter)
                          9. Romans 11:23
                            And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
                            Romans 11:22-24 (in Context) Romans 11 (Whole Chapter)
                          10. Romans 11:30
                            For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
                            Romans 11:29-31 (in Context) Romans 11 (Whole Chapter)
                          11. Romans 11:32
                            For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
                            Romans 11:31-33 (in Context) Romans 11 (Whole Chapter)
                          12. 1 Timothy 1:13
                            Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
                            1 Timothy 1:12-14 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)
                          13. Hebrews 3:12
                            Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
                            Hebrews 3:11-13 (in Context) Hebrews 3 (Whole Chapter)
                          14. Hebrews 3:19
                            So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
                            Hebrews 3:18-19 (in Context) Hebrews 3 (Whole Chapter)
                          15. Hebrews 4:6
                            Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
                            Hebrews 4:5-7 (in Context) Hebrews 4 (Whole Chapter)
                          16. Hebrews 4:11
                            Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
                            Hebrews 4:10-12 (in Context) Hebrews 4 (Whole Chapter)

                           

                          “they killed Him for blasphemy, a charge He never denied before them,  or before others in their "accusations" of Him not being "just a man" during His lifetime.   should i recount those as well,  or is the worship thing good enough for you? “  You are insane. This is your proof that Jesus Christ is God?

                          You just do not see or hear. Here is the reason why:

                          Romans 11:8
                          (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
                          Romans 11:7-9(in Context) Romans 11(Whole Chapter)

                          Here is Jesus Christ The Son of God; The Tempter and Devils confessing he is the Son of God, the trial for saying he is the Son of God, and more:

                          1. Matthew 4:3
                            And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
                            Matthew 4:2-4 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter)
                          2. Matthew 4:6
                            And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
                            Matthew 4:5-7 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter)
                          3. Matthew 8:29
                            And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
                            Matthew 8:28-30 (in Context) Matthew 8 (Whole Chapter)

                           

                          1. Matthew 14:33
                            Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
                            Matthew 14:32-34 (in Context) Matthew 14 (Whole Chapter)
                          2. Matthew 14:33
                            Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
                            Matthew 14:32-34 (in Context) Matthew 14 (Whole Chapter)
                          3. Matthew 16:16
                            And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
                            Matthew 16:15-17 (in Context) Matthew 16 (Whole Chapter)
                          4. Matthew 26:63
                            But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
                            Matthew 26:62-64 (in Context) Matthew 26 (Whole Chapter)

                           59Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;

                           60But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,

                           61And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

                           62And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?

                           63But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

                           64Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

                           65Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

                           66What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

                          1. Matthew 27:43
                            He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
                            Matthew 27:42-44 (in Context) Matthew 27 (Whole Chapter)
                          2. Mark 1:1
                            The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
                            Mark 1:1-3 (in Context) Mark 1 (Whole Chapter)
                          3. Mark 3:11
                            And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.
                            Mark 3:10-12 (in Context) Mark 3 (Whole Chapter)
                          4. Mark 5:7
                            And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
                            Mark 5:6-8 (in Context) Mark 5 (Whole Chapter)
                          5. Mark 15:39
                            And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
                            Mark 15:38-40 (in Context) Mark 15 (Whole Chapter)
                          6. Luke 4:3
                            And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
                            Luke 4:2-4 (in Context) Luke 4 (Whole Chapter)
                          7. Luke 4:9
                            And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:
                            Luke 4:8-10 (in Context) Luke 4 (Whole Chapter)
                          8. Luke 4:41
                            And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
                            Luke 4:40-42 (in Context) Luke 4 (Whole Chapter)
                          9. Luke 8:28
                            When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
                            Luke 8:27-29 (in Context) Luke 8 (Whole Chapter)
                          10. Luke 12:8
                            Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
                            Luke 12:7-9 (in Context) Luke 12 (Whole Chapter)

                          Jesus Christ is NOT GOD.

                          DD

                            Broulir32's avatar - 112

                            United States
                            Member #67381
                            November 24, 2008
                            282 Posts
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                            Posted: June 21, 2010, 9:14 am - IP Logged

                            Boy o boy :) i just found this debate and i got to say its INTERESTING :)  I personaly was raised in catholic house (going to church every sunday etc.) and i do belive in God and always will becouse what would we be with out some caind of feith , however  I lost all my feith in bible and church  i belive in and live by ten commandments and trying to be the best i can for others and thats  were it ends, im not perfect not even close, but if God do exist and i will be judge one day atleast i will know i did it my way and not blindly follow some greedy idiots.

                            Religion and belives are matter of personal opinion, we all are intitle to one, so no one is or will be wrong in that subject, bible speak of understandig for one to another but people who quote the bible are the most hypocritical ( i dont mean in this thread but in general), to all those who think they religion or belive is better ask urself a question:
                            Who the hell are u to tell them they belive is wrong ,what makes u better then them.  

                             

                            P.S
                            But i must say if God see me and tell me U SUCK, GET UR BACK SIDE TO HELL  i would be quite pissed :)

                            And the answer is ???       U won't get it, if u don't ask the question ??

                              jarasan's avatar - new patrick.gif
                              Harbinger
                              D.C./MD.
                              United States
                              Member #44103
                              July 30, 2006
                              5583 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: June 21, 2010, 10:22 am - IP Logged

                              The joker likes to think his logic is conclusive and can somehow influence,  change, or seem enlightened to the average viewer............unfortunately his debate excludes more than it concludes anything.  For eg. he will NOT acknowledge that he WILL find out the the answer to all this when he dies,  simple as that,  he avoids that fact/truth like the plague.  He cannot write:  "Hey you are right,  we'll find out in the end, all of us!"

                                 
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