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Praying?

Topic closed. 421 replies. Last post 7 years ago by visiondude.

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RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

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Posted: June 17, 2010, 6:13 pm - IP Logged

Maybe we are the ones that are on our own, as written only one thing we were not suppose to do.

Fits prety good, I would hope at some time He or you would have a little mercy on me and give me a second

chance.

LP

Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

they are not.  Many great discoveries come while searching for something else

USAF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Base_Engineer_Emergency_Force

  US Flag Trump / 2016 & 2020  

    visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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    Posted: June 17, 2010, 6:43 pm - IP Logged

    DD,  you must have mis-interepreted my intent.  i never said that we couldn't or shouldn't go to God on anything, as we MUST on EVERYTHING.  prayer is THE integral component TO our relationship with God.  but rather we cannot (and must not) turn Him into our "personal concierge" thru prayer, and being honest, that's what most people do, and aim their "prayers" accordingly.  that attitude turns God into our servant, rather than us to Him. He has a will, and that will supercedes anything beyond our personal comfort at that moment. 

    you wrote "God’s will is that you prosper and be in health".  actually, that's a biblical lie, and one that is sweeping the body of Christ like a cancer.  that sounds harsh, but it is true.  while the TV prosperity teachers are getting "wealthy" at the expense of desperate all too trusting people, people are leaving thier relationship with Christ in droves because of that teaching.  because afterall, if God doesn't "prosper you", or "heal you", there is something wrong with your "faith", right?   ( WRONG )

    if the prosperity doctrine were true,  you would have to explain why it only works in an already wealthy civilization,  compared to why it doesn't work in 3rd world countries.

    i guarantee you that people in 3rd world countries have a TON more "faith" toward God via their hardships they face daily, then you and i ever will combined.  yet God doesn't make them "prosperous".

    i have watched how prayer chains that were formed, that numbered in the thousands, and yet God did not heal that particular person.  that's because there is no "prosperity" doctrine biblically.

    those congregations of the prosperity gospel are filled with people who have HUGE amounts of faith/belief that God can do anything, yet they remain ill, or "un-wealthy".

    God is NOT our servant.  we are supposed to be His, whatever that includes, and prayer is that toll that facilitates that possibility...

                "i am .........."meant to"       

    P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

             until further notice,  it's  france everyday

      visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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      Posted: June 17, 2010, 7:04 pm - IP Logged

      joker (pac),  your "concern" about God allowing children to die isn't as disconcerting as you paint it, when it is measured against Gods authority and decision making.

      even on a common sense level, the following makes sense...

      when God the creator created us, he created THE most beautiful component in a relationship.  that of free-will. 

      that being said, what establishes Him as God over us, is that as God, He is not about to allow His creation to ultimately (over time) dictate the rules.  at some point, man must become accountable for attempting to usurp the role over God, by calling the shots.  God is never going to allow that too happen. only to a certain extent, but only just enough to demonstrate to man his own inabilities TO run the show.  at some point,  accounting for the free-will factor, God must act like righteously by basically saying "ok, since you THINK you know better than i do, then i will remove my hand of protection from you, and i will step back and allow you to see what your choices become".  thus,  you see chaotic events such as you described.

      if you notice, the common denominator as to "where" these attrocities happen, are usually in the same places where idolatry occurs.  were nations/countries as a collective whole have willfully turned their back on God, and chased after (and worshipped) false gods.   when a nation/country does that, it creates the possiblitity of all kinds of chaos, but chaos man chooses and creates.  God allows it because He has to.  at some point, He has to allow some level of this to happen.

      and before you think that God makes young children "pay" for the sins of following after other gods, think again. God in his infinte wisdom takes them AS children, before they are intellectually accountable, and removes them from that possiblity before they do as well.

      what is inconsistent, is your assertion that God is mean when He allows this (and yet it is mans undoing. not God),  yet you do not speak up about the willful murder of unborn babies lives.  there happenstances are the same.  they "happen' at the hands of men who disregard Gods design, and neither are Gods fault...

      ever wonder why there is chaos in your own life, and why you wrestle so much about this subject?

                  "i am .........."meant to"       

      P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

               until further notice,  it's  france everyday


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        Posted: June 17, 2010, 7:16 pm - IP Logged

        joker (pac),  your "concern" about God allowing children to die isn't as disconcerting as you paint it, when it is measured against Gods authority and decision making.

        even on a common sense level, the following makes sense...

        when God the creator created us, he created THE most beautiful component in a relationship.  that of free-will. 

        that being said, what establishes Him as God over us, is that as God, He is not about to allow His creation to ultimately (over time) dictate the rules.  at some point, man must become accountable for attempting to usurp the role over God, by calling the shots.  God is never going to allow that too happen. only to a certain extent, but only just enough to demonstrate to man his own inabilities TO run the show.  at some point,  accounting for the free-will factor, God must act like righteously by basically saying "ok, since you THINK you know better than i do, then i will remove my hand of protection from you, and i will step back and allow you to see what your choices become".  thus,  you see chaotic events such as you described.

        if you notice, the common denominator as to "where" these attrocities happen, are usually in the same places where idolatry occurs.  were nations/countries as a collective whole have willfully turned their back on God, and chased after (and worshipped) false gods.   when a nation/country does that, it creates the possiblitity of all kinds of chaos, but chaos man chooses and creates.  God allows it because He has to.  at some point, He has to allow some level of this to happen.

        and before you think that God makes young children "pay" for the sins of following after other gods, think again. God in his infinte wisdom takes them AS children, before they are intellectually accountable, and removes them from that possiblity before they do as well.

        what is inconsistent, is your assertion that God is mean when He allows this (and yet it is mans undoing. not God),  yet you do not speak up about the willful murder of unborn babies lives.  there happenstances are the same.  they "happen' at the hands of men who disregard Gods design, and neither are Gods fault...

        ever wonder why there is chaos in your own life, and why you wrestle so much about this subject?

        That's your interpretation of what God's will is, or what he's thinking. And that's your right. However, there are countless interpretations of how God thinks, and what is his goals are. How any one  group can possibly know what God's intentions are is beyond me. Everyone who feels this way thinks they have a 1-800-God number, and he told them what his intentions are.

        Not only do they claim they know what his intentions are, but know this in great detail, down to crossing the T's and dotting the I's. It's incredible to me. How can multitudes of different faiths all claim they have a monopoly on truth? How I ask?...

        The whole reason I say...."I don't know", is because I don't know. I like a good healthy debate, and I like to share info and ideas with folks like you and others, and also take what you guys have to say in consideration also. It works both ways..... I don't want to lose any friendships here on the LP because of differing opinions. 

        I don't want to end this by saying I know what the truth is because no one has the answer. I search for truth. But If i said I knew for sure, I'd be just as bad as others who claim they know the secrets of the universe. You don't know what the secrets are, and neither do I.

          visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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          Posted: June 17, 2010, 7:40 pm - IP Logged

          on one hand joker,  you are right......there are THOUSANDS of opinions/religions, and who could possibly be right?

          simple deduction and common sense says that "if' there is a God,  then He must have done or said something to differentiate Himself from all other 'gods',  otherwise He cannot EVER judge us,  because then there could be no "standards".

          but God DID differetitate Himself, when He claimed over several thousand years that He would come in the flesh, and take upon Himself the debt owed by man, and that as God, He would raise Himself from the dead, a feat only God could accomplish,  and thereby distancing Himself from any other imposters to the throne (so to speak).

          1) God fullfilling hundreds of prophecies AFTER they were made, exactly to a "T".  no man can do that.

          2) raising Himself from the dead.  something only God could do

          3) eyewitness accounts to all of it,  pre and post resurrection.  all written down for our "proof" plaesure :)

          4) science and archaeology backing up the biblical record

          5)  and the best "evidence" of all, and one that NO MAN can refute......a PERSONAL relationship with a LIVING Jesus Christ.

          as long as you are willing TO know Him,  you can ask Him yourself to see if He is still alive, and He is God just like He claimed to be.   

           

          but,  so long as your thinking about this is first chance dismissle,  realistically,  do you ever think you will encounter him?

          you can't.  you create an environment where that's not even possible.  God LOVES for you to question and challenge Him.  He certainly isn't offended by that.  BUT, at some point, the ONLY way He will prove Himself to be real, is that you remove the antagonistic bent, and replace it with a "maybe it's true"...

          "prayer" is maybe too formal of a word for you, so just talk to Him and ask Him.  ask Him if He really loves you, and see what His response is.  if you are willing to come to Him, He WILL answer you.  if you are not,  you have zero chance of a response...

                      "i am .........."meant to"       

          P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                   until further notice,  it's  france everyday


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            Posted: June 17, 2010, 7:48 pm - IP Logged

            on one hand joker,  you are right......there are THOUSANDS of opinions/religions, and who could possibly be right?

            simple deduction and common sense says that "if' there is a God,  then He must have done or said something to differentiate Himself from all other 'gods',  otherwise He cannot EVER judge us,  because then there could be no "standards".

            but God DID differetitate Himself, when He claimed over several thousand years that He would come in the flesh, and take upon Himself the debt owed by man, and that as God, He would raise Himself from the dead, a feat only God could accomplish,  and thereby distancing Himself from any other imposters to the throne (so to speak).

            1) God fullfilling hundreds of prophecies AFTER they were made, exactly to a "T".  no man can do that.

            2) raising Himself from the dead.  something only God could do

            3) eyewitness accounts to all of it,  pre and post resurrection.  all written down for our "proof" plaesure :)

            4) science and archaeology backing up the biblical record

            5)  and the best "evidence" of all, and one that NO MAN can refute......a PERSONAL relationship with a LIVING Jesus Christ.

            as long as you are willing TO know Him,  you can ask Him yourself to see if He is still alive, and He is God just like He claimed to be.   

             

            but,  so long as your thinking about this is first chance dismissle,  realistically,  do you ever think you will encounter him?

            you can't.  you create an environment where that's not even possible.  God LOVES for you to question and challenge Him.  He certainly isn't offended by that.  BUT, at some point, the ONLY way He will prove Himself to be real, is that you remove the antagonistic bent, and replace it with a "maybe it's true"...

            "prayer" is maybe too formal of a word for you, so just talk to Him and ask Him.  ask Him if He really loves you, and see what His response is.  if you are willing to come to Him, He WILL answer you.  if you are not,  you have zero chance of a response...

            Thanx for the response.

            Maybe i should've given a little history about myself, but i really didn't want to bore the viewer.

            But on one hand you agree, then do a 180. Which one is it? You say you understand why I think multiple religions can't all be right, but in the same breath you say......"But God is differentiating himself. How? Another story? The Christian religion is among many others who have a story. You agree with me, then disagree....lol

             

            Dance

              Guru101's avatar - rw6jhh
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              Posted: June 17, 2010, 8:07 pm - IP Logged

              I wish so many people would stop debating over who is who's servant. Man being God's servant, or God being man's servant. Just STOP thinking of it like that. People need to look at God and others as FAMILY. We do things for God and he does things for us. We care about each other. We love God and God loves us. What really matters is the love you have for God and the purity of your heart, which he can see. So many people make God out to be some man with a magnifying glass looking at an anthill and we are the ants. And when it comes to how God answers prayers, so many people make it seem like we're blue collar workers writing a letter to the chairman of a company making requests.

              This isn't how it goes people. Each and every single one of us is a child of God. A CHILD of God. He will have certain expectations of us, but as the child of a loving parent, we can expect him to take care of us and if we are having a problem with something, there's no reason we shouldn't have faith that he will help us with it. He wants to. He wants to because he loves us.

              And don't forget how powerful a friend and father God is to you. Think about the powerful people there are in the world today. Take President Obama for example. Is President Obama your friend? Do you know him really well? You think you can just pick up the phone and give him a call? Maybe meet him at McDonald's, talk about politics, maybe go play some golf? More than likely no. But God is always with you, and God is more powerful than anybody! Anybody and anything! This is the guy who set the laws of physics. He knows how everything ticks, no matter what level you break it down to. He can take a pinhead piece of the sun and wipe out everything within a 150 mile radius.

              Think about that. You're in a battle. You're going through a rough time in your life. Who's got your back? Think about how awesome and how powerful a friend you got on your side(yes I said "awesome", smile about it, be happy about it).

              Think about that. THAT IS YOUR FRIEND, YOUR BEST FRIEND. Who can be against us if God is for us?

              So please don't look at our relationship with God as that of one in an enterprise. Look at is as one of a family.

              Gonna win.Big Smile

                DEE88's avatar - animal doggy2.jpg
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                Posted: June 17, 2010, 9:52 pm - IP Logged

                I wish so many people would stop debating over who is who's servant. Man being God's servant, or God being man's servant. Just STOP thinking of it like that. People need to look at God and others as FAMILY. We do things for God and he does things for us. We care about each other. We love God and God loves us. What really matters is the love you have for God and the purity of your heart, which he can see. So many people make God out to be some man with a magnifying glass looking at an anthill and we are the ants. And when it comes to how God answers prayers, so many people make it seem like we're blue collar workers writing a letter to the chairman of a company making requests.

                This isn't how it goes people. Each and every single one of us is a child of God. A CHILD of God. He will have certain expectations of us, but as the child of a loving parent, we can expect him to take care of us and if we are having a problem with something, there's no reason we shouldn't have faith that he will help us with it. He wants to. He wants to because he loves us.

                And don't forget how powerful a friend and father God is to you. Think about the powerful people there are in the world today. Take President Obama for example. Is President Obama your friend? Do you know him really well? You think you can just pick up the phone and give him a call? Maybe meet him at McDonald's, talk about politics, maybe go play some golf? More than likely no. But God is always with you, and God is more powerful than anybody! Anybody and anything! This is the guy who set the laws of physics. He knows how everything ticks, no matter what level you break it down to. He can take a pinhead piece of the sun and wipe out everything within a 150 mile radius.

                Think about that. You're in a battle. You're going through a rough time in your life. Who's got your back? Think about how awesome and how powerful a friend you got on your side(yes I said "awesome", smile about it, be happy about it).

                Think about that. THAT IS YOUR FRIEND, YOUR BEST FRIEND. Who can be against us if God is for us?

                So please don't look at our relationship with God as that of one in an enterprise. Look at is as one of a family.

                      I Agree!       I Agree!         I Agree!    Guru101...you couldn't have said it any better.....Thumbs Up

                  DEE88's avatar - animal doggy2.jpg
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                  Posted: June 17, 2010, 9:56 pm - IP Logged

                  on one hand joker,  you are right......there are THOUSANDS of opinions/religions, and who could possibly be right?

                  simple deduction and common sense says that "if' there is a God,  then He must have done or said something to differentiate Himself from all other 'gods',  otherwise He cannot EVER judge us,  because then there could be no "standards".

                  but God DID differetitate Himself, when He claimed over several thousand years that He would come in the flesh, and take upon Himself the debt owed by man, and that as God, He would raise Himself from the dead, a feat only God could accomplish,  and thereby distancing Himself from any other imposters to the throne (so to speak).

                  1) God fullfilling hundreds of prophecies AFTER they were made, exactly to a "T".  no man can do that.

                  2) raising Himself from the dead.  something only God could do

                  3) eyewitness accounts to all of it,  pre and post resurrection.  all written down for our "proof" plaesure :)

                  4) science and archaeology backing up the biblical record

                  5)  and the best "evidence" of all, and one that NO MAN can refute......a PERSONAL relationship with a LIVING Jesus Christ.

                  as long as you are willing TO know Him,  you can ask Him yourself to see if He is still alive, and He is God just like He claimed to be.   

                   

                  but,  so long as your thinking about this is first chance dismissle,  realistically,  do you ever think you will encounter him?

                  you can't.  you create an environment where that's not even possible.  God LOVES for you to question and challenge Him.  He certainly isn't offended by that.  BUT, at some point, the ONLY way He will prove Himself to be real, is that you remove the antagonistic bent, and replace it with a "maybe it's true"...

                  "prayer" is maybe too formal of a word for you, so just talk to Him and ask Him.  ask Him if He really loves you, and see what His response is.  if you are willing to come to Him, He WILL answer you.  if you are not,  you have zero chance of a response...

                    Thumbs Up Visiondude...you make some very good and true points also....

                    Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
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                    Posted: June 18, 2010, 12:22 am - IP Logged

                    Some say that when you pray, that's you trying to talk to God. When you get a gut hunch about something, that's God talking to you.

                    As for the woman who prayed to win a jackpot and did, had she not prayed would different numbers have been drawn? Would she still have won?

                    Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                    Lep

                    There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

                      visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                      Posted: June 18, 2010, 1:12 am - IP Logged

                      GURU,  that was an AWESOME reply/analogy, and i am totally on that same page as to that definition of God, within it's contextual relationship with us.  there is nothing more important in my life than to point people TO a vibrant "2 WAY" relationship between God and us.  the last thing i would ever do is facilitate some sterile thought that God is "up there", and we are "down here", and your dang lucky if you even think that God would answer you.  i seek to promote exactly the opposite of that ideal.

                      it's just that i was addressing a growing problem in that "most" people are seemingly thinking that God is just there to serve them.  look at the various Christian TV ministries and you will agree, most everyone promotes that "give me" gospel.  if you give me what I want God - THEN i will serve you.  there is nothing good about that.  nothing good, because it creates expectation that sometimes God won't meet, because it is not within the constraints of what's good for your future.

                      when i stated we should serve God, i was implying that to be out of a LOVE relationship.  one of respect, and not of demand.  keeping the "demand" attitude in check, and the prosperity gospel breeds that thinking - that God owes me.  that's a lie.

                      some of THE most blessed people, THE most close(r) to God in terms of contextual realtionship are people in those 3rd world countries.  they most likely never will be "healed",  nor they may never experience "wealth" like those TV evangelists promote, yet they experience a deeper RELATIONSHIP than most people.  their hardships ensure that they do. parameters built into thier lives by God to ensure that.  a person that knows how those parameters work experiences peace no matter what comes their way.  "prosperity" proponents fall easily when the things they hope for, don't come. 

                      that was the distinction i was making.  pray about EVERYTHING.  but be willing to adjust to that answer no matter what it is, because God IS soveriegn, and ultimately has our best interest in life.

                                  "i am .........."meant to"       

                      P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                               until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                        visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                        Posted: June 18, 2010, 1:32 am - IP Logged

                        joker (pac),  what we agree upon......... is that there are thousands of religions.

                        but the distinction i made is that within the world's history,  only one person made good on a claim to be God, and to speak authoritatively about the things of God,  by raising Himself from the dead.  effectively reducing the "thousands" down to only ONE. 

                        that, is an historical fact,  and one that can still be backed up by the PERSON that did. 

                        ask Him yourself.  if it's not true,  then He cannot answer you.

                        i deduce it down to common sense even - if there is a God, and He actually has standards by which He will ultimately judge us by,  then it would be completely ludicrous to think that He "didn't" differentiate Himself from all others down thru history, and that somehow who He is, or what He wants,  is nothing more than a clouded mystery guessing game.

                        if there is a God - that certainly isn't true.  and it certainly isn't

                        equally ludicrous is anyone thinking that they can define who God is, and that when we die, God somehow is supposed to become what we wanted him to be.  that certainly isn't true. God has defined Himself in history.  now the deal is, whether or not we will adjust TO that "definition",  so that we can have a relationship with Him.

                        any man that portends to think they can make God into what they would like Him to be, based on their likes/dislikes, will never meet Him. 

                         every man comes to God on the basis of who He already says He is, and "how" we are supposed to come to Him, ad that first step is one of simple trust......that He is, who He claimed to be.  after that,  it's up to Him to "prove it"...

                        only one (not "thousands")

                                    "i am .........."meant to"       

                        P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                                 until further notice,  it's  france everyday


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                          Posted: June 18, 2010, 3:57 am - IP Logged

                          Hey, and can’t see out of the other eye-guy,

                           

                          You make a spiritual statement and fluff about what is and is not? It sounds you are making a pretty convincing theological statement that people should adhere to. You say what I call good is really evil and basically ungodly - wrong thinking. You warn. You condemn (and boy you got that one down good with a nice guilt trip!). I know scripture upsets some reading this post but what it says kind of blows what you say out of the water. To quote you:

                          you wrote "God’s will is that you prosper and be in health".  actually, that's a biblical lie, and one that is sweeping the body of Christ like a cancer.  that sounds harsh, but it is true.”

                          We definitely are not talking about the same God. I see jokers point clearly about the many denomintions.

                           

                          3 John 1:2
                          Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

                           

                           

                          because afterall, if God doesn't "prosper you", or "heal you", there is something wrong with your "faith", right?   ( WRONG ),…… if the prosperity doctrine were true,  you would have to explain why it only works in an already wealthy civilization,  compared to why it doesn't work in 3rd world countries.”

                          You know, I never looked at it that way but to answer you I would ask why you imply wealth is the same as being prosperous? Answered prayer of any kind is prosperity. God can meet your need, not greed. Your big on God’s judgment, but then the Sonship right of Justification never crossed your blind eyes, likely for the same reason you never read the scripture above and say it is a "biblical lie".

                          This is an interesting thread, but it sounds like a systems debate instead of a discussion.

                          Now I know this will ruffle some feathers but I do not believe Jesus Christ is God. I believe he was as he said, the son of God. To pray to J.C. is like breaking the 1st commandment. The one TRUE God theme abounds in the book as well as warnings of following other gods. If you got your god wrong, you got a big fat psuedo-biblical lie. That is why the failure rate is high for Christians.

                          Get the book in brail and check it out. Nothing worse than the blind leading the blind, but after all these years it is getting entertaining.

                          DD


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                            Posted: June 18, 2010, 7:47 am - IP Logged

                            joker (pac),  what we agree upon......... is that there are thousands of religions.

                            but the distinction i made is that within the world's history,  only one person made good on a claim to be God, and to speak authoritatively about the things of God,  by raising Himself from the dead.  effectively reducing the "thousands" down to only ONE. 

                            that, is an historical fact,  and one that can still be backed up by the PERSON that did. 

                            ask Him yourself.  if it's not true,  then He cannot answer you.

                            i deduce it down to common sense even - if there is a God, and He actually has standards by which He will ultimately judge us by,  then it would be completely ludicrous to think that He "didn't" differentiate Himself from all others down thru history, and that somehow who He is, or what He wants,  is nothing more than a clouded mystery guessing game.

                            if there is a God - that certainly isn't true.  and it certainly isn't

                            equally ludicrous is anyone thinking that they can define who God is, and that when we die, God somehow is supposed to become what we wanted him to be.  that certainly isn't true. God has defined Himself in history.  now the deal is, whether or not we will adjust TO that "definition",  so that we can have a relationship with Him.

                            any man that portends to think they can make God into what they would like Him to be, based on their likes/dislikes, will never meet Him. 

                             every man comes to God on the basis of who He already says He is, and "how" we are supposed to come to Him, ad that first step is one of simple trust......that He is, who He claimed to be.  after that,  it's up to Him to "prove it"...

                            only one (not "thousands")

                            joker (pac),  what we agree upon......... is that there are thousands of religions.

                            You're absolutely correct. That's all we agree on.

                             

                             

                             

                             

                            but the distinction i made is that within the world's history,  only one person made good on a claim to be God, and to speak authoritatively about the things of God,  by raising Himself from the dead.  effectively reducing the "thousands" down to only ONE. 

                            Wrong......

                            Again, that's simply an interpretation  that you subscribe to. Just because you believe it to be true, doesn't reduce anything from thousands to one, except in your own mind.  

                             

                             

                             

                             

                             

                             

                            that, is an historical fact,  and one that can still be backed up by the PERSON that did. 

                            Wrong again...

                            Really?...A historical fact?....Ok then, point me in the direction to where I can see this fact. Show me proof of this fact and I'll shut up for good. Actually, save your energy, cause you ain't gonna find it. Just like you ain't gonna find any proof that the Prophet Mohammad rose to the sky in his sleep, and Angels whisked him away to meet God.

                             

                             

                             

                             

                             

                             

                             deduce it down to common sense even - if there is a God, and He actually has standards by which He will ultimately judge us by,  then it would be completely ludicrous to think that He "didn't" differentiate Himself from all others down thru history, and that somehow who He is, or what He wants,  is nothing more than a clouded mystery guessing game.

                            Sounds good, but you're forgetting that there are multitudes claiming the same thing you're writing here, and the difference is that they beilieve in a different faith than yours. Who should I listen to? Them or you?....Cause they claim to have the correct savior or laws needed to enter Heaven. They say you're wrong.

                             

                             

                             

                             

                             

                             

                             

                             

                            equally ludicrous is anyone thinking that they can define who God is, and that when we die, God somehow is supposed to become what we wanted him to be.  that certainly isn't true. God has defined Himself in history.  now the deal is, whether or not we will adjust TO that "definition",  so that we can have a relationship with Him.

                            Wrong again....

                            God has defined himself in more ways than I can even think of. Maybe you should brush up in the history section.

                            And the problem is, that If you happen to pick the wrong one, you're doomed. So I just dismiss ALL of them. 

                            I tune in to the universal intelligence. No silly rules and rituals,  just a nice conversation between me and the ubiquitous energy.  I don't have to wear any costumes, and I can eat what I want ,on any day of the week without feeling guilty. I'm not afraid of burning in some hell fire and brimstone nonsense because I didn't adhere to someone else's definition or interpretation of what God wants. 

                            People ask me all the time...."What If you're wrong?"

                            I simply ask the same question back at them...."What If you're wrong?" 

                             


                              United States
                              Member #75358
                              June 1, 2009
                              5345 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: June 18, 2010, 8:20 am - IP Logged

                              Hey Visiondude, Here's an incomplete list of the various denominations. If you guys can't even agree amongst yourselves, then how do you expect me to take any of this seriously. Maybe one day, they'll all come together, nad then they may have a case, but until that day, I'm steering away. Even If they do unite, they still have to explain why they are right, and not all the other many religions.

                               

                              Catholic 1,050,000,000         Orthodox/ astern Christian 240,000,000         African indigenous sects (AICs) 110,000,000 Pentecostal 105,000,000          Reformed/Presbyterian/Congregational/United 75,000,000            Anglican 73,000,000         Baptist 70,000,000            Methodist 70,000,000         Lutheran 64,000,000         Jehovah's Witnesses 14,800,000           Adventist 12,000,000        Latter Day Saints 12,500,000          Apostolic/New Apostolic 10,000,000          Stone-Campbell ("Restoration Movement") 5,400,000           New Thought (Unity, Christian Science, etc.) 1,500,000           Brethren (incl. Plymouth) 1,500,000 Mennonite 1,250,000           Friends (Quakers) 300,000

                              According to the World Christian Encyclopedia (year 2000 version), global Christianity had 33,820 denominations with 3,445,000 congregations/churches composed of 1,888 million affiliated Christians.

                               

                              Here's a partial list of the other religions:

                               

                               

                               

                                 
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