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Praying?

Topic closed. 421 replies. Last post 6 years ago by visiondude.

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Posted: June 17, 2010, 3:02 am - IP Logged

most importantly, staying within the thread, i must address my position on "prayer", before i answer your assertion that God doesn't care. 

most peoples idea of prayer is waaaaaay off base.  prayer ISN'T asking God for something (per se), as much as it is a RELATIONSHIP tool that facilitates what God is thinking about any given subject matter, and what He intends to do about the particular event/concern.  people think for some reason that prayer is an avenue to get God to do what they want, and that's inherently backwards.  God is not our servant.  we are supposed to serve Him, and within the relationship context, prayer merely becomes that avenue to create the chance to get on the same page that God is already on.   no one changes Gods mind/will.  God doesn't make up His plans on the fly as He goes along.  He already has His will, and prayer is our free-will choice to find out what that is, and then we decide as to whether or not we are going to adjust to it.

therefore, i don't waste my time "praying" to win the lottery, etc.  what i do, that is judicious/effcient, is that i fully know God is omniscient, and therefore knows without hesitation what is best for me into the future of my life, and because i trust Him implicitly, i go to Him (BECAUSE HE IS STILL ALIVE, and not just a "religion"),  and He tells me what to pursue, and what not to pursue.  sometimes i "wonder" if something i am thinking about is, then i ask.  BUT, i get an answer for one reason, and that is because i am just as willing to accept the "no" answer, as i am the "yes" answer.  i realize i serve Him - he does NOT serve me.

it matters not how much "faith" as person has.....if it is not within Gods will for that person, it won't happen.  ever 

tomorrow sometime, i will answer the "children dying" concern.   it's late, and that takes a little bit of effort.

in the meantime pac, entertain the thought that God isn't spiteful as you assert, and actually loves you.  He is real pac, and can prove Himself to you PERSONALLY, should you decide to let Him show you who He really is, and THEN you can righteously decide for yourself, rather than allowing your heart to grow stiff beyond even His reach...

            "i am .........."meant to"       

P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

         until further notice,  it's  france everyday


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    Posted: June 17, 2010, 4:34 am - IP Logged

    Hey blind in one eye,

    God says he has the hairs on our heads numbered. That is to say the smallest thing important to you is important to Him. Did you ever ask your Dad for a coin or a dollar to do something or buy something? Your own parent can answer a request so why not God? And that is not making God your servant. What a bunch of unscriptural “Your an unworthy worm” hogwash.

    God says he is willing and able to do. What most brush off in unanswered prayer is the fact that the praying did not BELIEVE. And anybody that has holy spirit has the faith or believing of Jesus Christ! Peter didn’t even have that and he walked on water.

     Don’t bother praying for more faith, believe what is available when you get it. What limits God’s ability is personal unbelief. As for His will, most have read all around the book and get taught fallacies by supposed spiritual leaders. God’s will is His word. Read the book of Ephesians for moment of clarity and decide if the traditions you have been taught can stand up to the truth. You will likely believe your traditions and they do not deliver. That is being waaayyy off base. Don’t ask the god of this world for anything because he does not deliver, he only teases. Get your God right.

    God’s will is that you prosper and be in health. Someone else would say that poverty, sickness and death is the will of a god. You just gotta understand which god or God is speaking the truth. One is the father of lies and the author of death, "a murderer from the begining". Once he had dominion of this world he could do all the genetic manipulations to cause disease, weeds and mutant hybreds that nearly killed mankind. Yea, they were gods, but with a small 'g'. To steal, kill and destroy is the three-fold ministry of the god of this world.

    DD

      RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

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      Posted: June 17, 2010, 6:18 am - IP Logged

      joker17

       

      God Might ask you some day.  "20,000 kids died everyday while you were on earth, what did you do to help

      them?  I hope you have a good reply.

       

      Not trying to be mean just a thought.

      RL

      Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

      I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

      they are not.  Many great discoveries come while searching for something else

      USAF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Base_Engineer_Emergency_Force

        US Flag Trump / 2016 & 2020  


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        Posted: June 17, 2010, 9:58 am - IP Logged

        joker17

         

        God Might ask you some day.  "20,000 kids died everyday while you were on earth, what did you do to help

        them?  I hope you have a good reply.

         

        Not trying to be mean just a thought.

        RL

        I don't have ominpotent power. I didn't create the universe. I didn't create a thousand different religions, and then persecute the person who just happened to be born in the wrong group, expecting he or she to choose the correct one.

        Even If i were to help one child today for the rest of it's life, there would still be 19,999 others who would perish. on a daily basis. And it's not just the kids issue. I threw that in there as a start. I have a laundry list a mile long of other inconsistencies that shows that these fabricated gods that people worship are just in their minds.

        But again, I'm not trying to belittle people's faiths. If that's what comforts them in time of need, then all the power to them. But I can't sit here with a straight face and say I believe under the present and past circumstances. There's just too many problems with the stories.

        Also the timelines in the Bible don't match the timelines of Earth's history. That makes it inaccurate and an unreliable source in my opinion. The universe can't be only 6,000 year old, since light from galaxies, billions of light years away took that long to reach our eyes. But despite that info, there are countless millions that ignore those issues and still believe the young age story. They refuse to take the blinders off. Hey....whatever tickles your pickle.

          Raven62's avatar - binary
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          Posted: June 17, 2010, 10:19 am - IP Logged

          Although millions believe that the Bible is the word of God, that belief is supported by no evidence what-so-ever. Millions of men have talked of God and written of him without any authority but their own. The world has many sacred books and the believers in each of these assert that theirs and theirs alone is the true revelation of the Deity.

          A mind once stretched by a new idea never returns to its original dimensions!

            dr65's avatar - black panther.jpg
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            Posted: June 17, 2010, 10:35 am - IP Logged

            I don't have ominpotent power. I didn't create the universe. I didn't create a thousand different religions, and then persecute the person who just happened to be born in the wrong group, expecting he or she to choose the correct one.

            Even If i were to help one child today for the rest of it's life, there would still be 19,999 others who would perish. on a daily basis. And it's not just the kids issue. I threw that in there as a start. I have a laundry list a mile long of other inconsistencies that shows that these fabricated gods that people worship are just in their minds.

            But again, I'm not trying to belittle people's faiths. If that's what comforts them in time of need, then all the power to them. But I can't sit here with a straight face and say I believe under the present and past circumstances. There's just too many problems with the stories.

            Also the timelines in the Bible don't match the timelines of Earth's history. That makes it inaccurate and an unreliable source in my opinion. The universe can't be only 6,000 year old, since light from galaxies, billions of light years away took that long to reach our eyes. But despite that info, there are countless millions that ignore those issues and still believe the young age story. They refuse to take the blinders off. Hey....whatever tickles your pickle.

            Anyone is free to search for an answer and entertain whatever conclusion they come to regarding whether God exists or doesn't.

            If you think God had no hand in our being here...did we come from another planet or crawl out of the water? Joker, I'm not being smart or

            sarcastic. I'd just like to know. If you are still searching, that is fine. I believe what I believe and won't sway or agree with others thoughts on

            anything different from what I know. You are free to believe what you'd like as anyone else is.

            To me, the earth is nowhere near millions of years old. I don't buy carbon dating or anything else they dream up to discount or discredit the

            fact God exists and created the universe and everything in it.

            I think you might be one that needs to see to believe? Is that it? If so, you might never see. Please don't base your feelings on that alone.


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              Posted: June 17, 2010, 10:44 am - IP Logged

              Although millions believe that the Bible is the word of God, that belief is supported by no evidence what-so-ever. Millions of men have talked of God and written of him without any authority but their own. The world has many sacred books and the believers in each of these assert that theirs and theirs alone is the true revelation of the Deity.

              AMEN !


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                Posted: June 17, 2010, 11:26 am - IP Logged

                Anyone is free to search for an answer and entertain whatever conclusion they come to regarding whether God exists or doesn't.

                If you think God had no hand in our being here...did we come from another planet or crawl out of the water? Joker, I'm not being smart or

                sarcastic. I'd just like to know. If you are still searching, that is fine. I believe what I believe and won't sway or agree with others thoughts on

                anything different from what I know. You are free to believe what you'd like as anyone else is.

                To me, the earth is nowhere near millions of years old. I don't buy carbon dating or anything else they dream up to discount or discredit the

                fact God exists and created the universe and everything in it.

                I think you might be one that needs to see to believe? Is that it? If so, you might never see. Please don't base your feelings on that alone.

                I've noticed a trend in the past 20 years or so. People with strong faiths rely on science when it suits them. They rely on science when it has a benefit to their agendas, yet when it comes to science showing the universe's age, or anything else that may disagree with the holy books of many religions, they suddenly don't believe.

                I;ve debated people in the past about this very subject. They use T.V.s, computers, medicine that helps cure their ailments, cars, sewing machines, fly in airplanes, blenders, microwave ovens,  and the list goes on, but when it comes to the nitty gritty, like carbon dating, or the age of the universe, then the scientist are all of a sudden deceiving lunatics...lol...You can't cherry pick what you believe in. It's a fact that galaxies are billions of light years away. It's a fact that it takes 8 and a half minutes for the sun's light to reach our eyes.

                I can go a step further. I've seen debates on Youtube between the two sides, and the religious folks actually use science to make their points. WHAT?....I thought they didn't believe in science. They don't.....but when it benefits them, they'll use it.

                I'll give you just one example. I've heard the argument that there exists a light source called a Tachyon light source which supposedly travels faster than the speed of normal light speed. And that's why we can see the distant galaxies within a short time span of 6,000 years. It's a hypothetical particle, and there is absolutely no evidence of it's existence. But this is not the point. Even if it did exist, the mere fact that they use science to debunk the conventional thinking is funny. WHAT?  I thought you didn't believe in science. They don't, but use it when it benefits them. And in this case, they were wrong anyways.

                Think how rediculous that sounds. When God created the universe, he purposely created a tachyon particle for the Galaxies that are far off, so that their light might reach our eyes faster in a timeline to fit the 6,000 year story. So let me get this straight. It's not bad enough that humanity is confused beyond recognition already. Let's really throw off everyone on Earth by making the universe look younger than it really is, even though God gave them brains to think, and realize the manipulation of matter by the creator. This is just too hilarious.

                Science doesn't have the answer to everything, but it's pretty darn close.

                People in the early books had no idea of what was going on around them. They had no clue why the moon was sitting up in the sky. One passage from the Bible says......"The moon hangeth upon nothing". They didn't know things float in space. They didn't even know what space was...lol ...Every un-answerable dilemma was related to a God being the reason. Everytime a comet passed by, they thought it was a sign from God. They either celebrated the event, or killed people thinking it was a warning of doom If the wicked people didn't change their ways. If there was a disease, it was because God was sending it t as punishment. They knew nothing of the microbial world.

                During the Bubonic plague, it got to a point where folks started freaking out. They had enough. They thought that this was a curse from God, and what they did was to form large groups that paraded throught towns and cities, killing anyone they thought might be the cause of this curse imposed by God. Anyone who was drinking, and having a good time was killed. They even flogged themselves hoping God would see this and spare further destruction.

                Most of those questions about the unexplained have been resolved by science. We now know that it wasn't a curse, it was a bacteria that was present in fleas, which still exists today. The rats were carriers of the fleas, which killed one third of Europe.

                We now know that comets, asteroids, and meteors which enter our atmosphere aren't signs and wonders. They are natural occurences in space. We now know that the Earth is not the center of the universe. We now know that the Sun is not a God, like the very early Egyptian folks used to think. You think it's a coincidence that my 104 year old Muslim Grandmother faces East and prays 5 times a day. East, where the sun rises. Most of the big religions were actually derived from Sun God egyptian sources. In actuality, the Christian religion among others, were haned down from earlier belief systems. They share the same stories as the Bible, like a man who was killed on a cross then rose 3 days later. And many other stories in the Bible were written long before by others.

                Do you know why the term "Sunset" is used? It refers to the two Gods in Egyptian days....Sun, and set. They fought in the sky. When Sun won the battle, it was daytime. When set won, it was dark.

                Watch the movie Zeitgeist, It talks in detail about Horus, and how religions were born from the Egyptian Gods.

                 

                 


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                      Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
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                      Posted: June 17, 2010, 4:39 pm - IP Logged

                      joker17

                       

                      God Might ask you some day.  "20,000 kids died everyday while you were on earth, what did you do to help

                      them?  I hope you have a good reply.

                       

                      Not trying to be mean just a thought.

                      RL

                      RL,

                      I realize your post is just a thought, but it smacks of guilt-trip works based theology.

                      It's not joker17's fault or anyone else's that even when people try to do good the corruption of foreign leaders intercepts the foodstuffs, medical supplies and other things intnded for the needy.

                      During the Viet Nam conflict tons of such things that were sent south went directly to the VC and NVA. That's just one minor example.

                      I know a stock answer to such things is God provided the reources to make all the food the world needs and it's humankind's distribution system that causes problems, but to try and put that kind of blame on any indiviual is kind of like shooting a 12 year old German kid and when asked why the shooter says, "Auschwitz."

                      Bang Head

                      Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                      Lep

                      There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

                        Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
                        Zeta Reticuli Star System
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                        Posted: June 17, 2010, 4:48 pm - IP Logged

                        joker17,

                        Great pics on your blog. Gee, objects in the sky in paintings by artists centuries before the Wright borthers, imagine that.

                        The denial of any other life in all of the universe (or universes, the multiverse!) is humankinds' ego gone beserk, the rest of the universe exists as our front yard?  Doubtful.

                        I've always thought of a scenario somethig like this. We send a spaceship up looking for life somewhere in space and they find it. One of the astronauts tells the others that the religious leaders on that planet has most of their followers convinced that any visitors from space are demons.

                        One of the other astronauts says, "How primitive."

                        Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                        Lep

                        There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

                          RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

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                          Posted: June 17, 2010, 5:06 pm - IP Logged

                          I don't have ominpotent power. I didn't create the universe. I didn't create a thousand different religions, and then persecute the person who just happened to be born in the wrong group, expecting he or she to choose the correct one.

                          Even If i were to help one child today for the rest of it's life, there would still be 19,999 others who would perish. on a daily basis. And it's not just the kids issue. I threw that in there as a start. I have a laundry list a mile long of other inconsistencies that shows that these fabricated gods that people worship are just in their minds.

                          But again, I'm not trying to belittle people's faiths. If that's what comforts them in time of need, then all the power to them. But I can't sit here with a straight face and say I believe under the present and past circumstances. There's just too many problems with the stories.

                          Also the timelines in the Bible don't match the timelines of Earth's history. That makes it inaccurate and an unreliable source in my opinion. The universe can't be only 6,000 year old, since light from galaxies, billions of light years away took that long to reach our eyes. But despite that info, there are countless millions that ignore those issues and still believe the young age story. They refuse to take the blinders off. Hey....whatever tickles your pickle.

                          joker17

                          I was just pointing out that maybe God has provided a solution.  It's just that most of us are not doing

                          our part.  Correct, this would leave 19,999 others but there are far more than 19,999 of us that can do

                          something. If you are doing your part then your questions may be valid.  Many people are doing their

                          part and I hate to think what the figures would be without them.  Even if 10% of the people gave just

                          $5.00 each month, many if not all of these could be helped.  Any time that something good is started

                          then there is always somthing bad to oppose it.  Mankind must see the logic in this.  Take a few moments

                          and think. "If I was God what would I do to fix this"  Even if you rained down gold and made everybody

                          rich what would happen then. Most would not work and then who would grow our food, We would

                          all starve.  Every action has an equal but opposite reaction.  Man is the problem, Not God.  I fear that

                          if the bible is real and true then where will I stand in the end.  Be carfull what you wish for as someday

                          you might get it.  When God does take over and sets things right, what will He do on that day.  This is

                          what is meant by "fear of God is the beginning of wisdom". So at least help in some little way as......

                          "No Problems only solutions"  applies here to.

                          your friend

                          RL

                          Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

                          I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

                          they are not.  Many great discoveries come while searching for something else

                          USAF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Base_Engineer_Emergency_Force

                            US Flag Trump / 2016 & 2020  

                            RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - usafce

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                            Posted: June 17, 2010, 5:10 pm - IP Logged

                            joker17

                            I was just pointing out that maybe God has provided a solution.  It's just that most of us are not doing

                            our part.  Correct, this would leave 19,999 others but there are far more than 19,999 of us that can do

                            something. If you are doing your part then your questions may be valid.  Many people are doing their

                            part and I hate to think what the figures would be without them.  Even if 10% of the people gave just

                            $5.00 each month, many if not all of these could be helped.  Any time that something good is started

                            then there is always somthing bad to oppose it.  Mankind must see the logic in this.  Take a few moments

                            and think. "If I was God what would I do to fix this"  Even if you rained down gold and made everybody

                            rich what would happen then. Most would not work and then who would grow our food, We would

                            all starve.  Every action has an equal but opposite reaction.  Man is the problem, Not God.  I fear that

                            if the bible is real and true then where will I stand in the end.  Be carfull what you wish for as someday

                            you might get it.  When God does take over and sets things right, what will He do on that day.  This is

                            what is meant by "fear of God is the beginning of wisdom". So at least help in some little way as......

                            "No Problems only solutions"  applies here to.

                            your friend

                            RL

                            everyone

                            Every action has an equal but opposite reaction, my only question is "who or what made the first move"

                            Rl

                            Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

                            I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

                            they are not.  Many great discoveries come while searching for something else

                            USAF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Base_Engineer_Emergency_Force

                              US Flag Trump / 2016 & 2020  


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                              Posted: June 17, 2010, 5:29 pm - IP Logged

                              joker17

                              I was just pointing out that maybe God has provided a solution.  It's just that most of us are not doing

                              our part.  Correct, this would leave 19,999 others but there are far more than 19,999 of us that can do

                              something. If you are doing your part then your questions may be valid.  Many people are doing their

                              part and I hate to think what the figures would be without them.  Even if 10% of the people gave just

                              $5.00 each month, many if not all of these could be helped.  Any time that something good is started

                              then there is always somthing bad to oppose it.  Mankind must see the logic in this.  Take a few moments

                              and think. "If I was God what would I do to fix this"  Even if you rained down gold and made everybody

                              rich what would happen then. Most would not work and then who would grow our food, We would

                              all starve.  Every action has an equal but opposite reaction.  Man is the problem, Not God.  I fear that

                              if the bible is real and true then where will I stand in the end.  Be carfull what you wish for as someday

                              you might get it.  When God does take over and sets things right, what will He do on that day.  This is

                              what is meant by "fear of God is the beginning of wisdom". So at least help in some little way as......

                              "No Problems only solutions"  applies here to.

                              your friend

                              RL

                              As I pointed out earlier in this thread, like Cointoss also, the Govt.s will not allow food and medicine into most of the poverty ridden countries on purpose to get back at their enemies. But again, even if that problem was solved, there are a myriad of other problems facing the mere existence of such a God. Myriads!.........Not that there isn't a God, but basic questions have to be answered for me to be satisfied.

                              If I was God, you say, how would I fix this?....See?...You're missing the whole point. I wouldn't have to fix anything, because If I as God, I wouldn't allow this mess to begin with. You know how I would do this? Very simple....Even free will can be iincluded to satisfy everyone....very simple...

                              I create the universe, and then all the beings I wish to be with me. Trillions of beings stand before me in some plane of existence in spirit form as I lay down the rules. In my grand speech I would tell everyone that If you want to live in paradise with me, you have to be nice, kind and no fighting amongst each other, plus other rules. If you broke the rules, I will give you one or two chances, maybe evem 3, but after that, you're on your own to wander aimlessly in the universe all by yourself, and not be able to re-enter my kingdom.....That's it....done.....No head games, no being born into a world in which you die, no being born into a world where therer 1700 different religions and total confusion, no worries, no guessing, no wars, no famine......the list goes on.

                              When a father tells his kid what he expects from him, he doesn't send the kid a letter 3,000 miles away in a coded form that the kid has to decipher. He doesn't send the kid confusing messages, hoping that maybe the kid gets lucky and understands. No...He sits down with the kid, face to face and relates to the kid exactly what he wants. He doesn't beat around the bush with vague symbolic writings, and interpretations.

                              No problems, only solutions baby......

                               

                               

                                 
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