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Praying?

Topic closed. 421 replies. Last post 6 years ago by visiondude.

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Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
Zeta Reticuli Star System
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Posted: June 18, 2010, 9:23 am - IP Logged

Some of the posts in this thread bring a line from a Joe South song to mind:

People walking up to ya

singing glory hallelulah

and they're trying to sock it to ya

in the name of the Lord

- Games People Play

One of the real ironies here is that many of the fundamentalists inmany of the religions joker17 listed above would condemn us all justfor playing the lottery.

(Joe South)

Oh, the games people play now,
Every night and every day now
Never meaning what they say now,
Never saying what they mean.

They just wile away the hours,
In their ivory towers
‘Til they’re covered up with flowers,
In the back of a black limousine.

La da da, da da da, da da
La da da, da da da, da dee
I’m talking ‘bout you and me
And the games people play.

Oh, we make one another cry,
Break our heart when we say goodbye
Cross our hearts and we hope to die
Bet the other was to blame.

Neither one ever give an inch
So we gaze at our eight by ten
Thinking ‘bout the things that might of been
And its a dirty rotten shame.

--- Instrumental ---

People walking up to you,
Singing glory, Hallelujah!
And their trying’ to sock it to you,
In the name of the Lord.

There gonna teach you how to meditate
Read your horoscope and cheat your fate
And to furthermore to hell with hate
Come on get on board.


La da da, da da da, da da
La da da, da da da, da dee
I’m talking ‘bout you and me
And the games people play.

Well, look around and tell me what you see
What’s a happening to you and me
God grant me the serenity
To remember who I am.

'Cause you've given up your sanity
For your pride and your vanity
Turns you back on humanity
And you don't give a da da.

La da da, da da da, da da
La da da, da da da, da dee
I’m talking ‘bout you and me
And the games people play.

La da da, da da da, da da
La da da, da da da, da dee
I’m talking ‘bout you and me
And the games people play...

Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

Lep

There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

    four4me's avatar - gate1
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    Posted: June 18, 2010, 1:45 pm - IP Logged

    Most if not all Christian faiths believe that their is a god who created heaven and earth. Who had a son that died on the cross to wipe away the sins of Adam and Eve. And who rose again to sit at the right hand of his father. The spirit of Christ all three beings are know as the trinity. 

    God said he who believith in me though he were dead yet shall he live. If you don't believe in these statements you must not have come to the realization that their is one god. A god above all others. The god that sent his son to die on the cross and a spirit that lives in all Christians.

    Since Peter was the head of the apostles and started the church upon a rock as ordered by god the son and the holy spirit.  Then that religion must be the one true religion.

      Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
      Zeta Reticuli Star System
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      Posted: June 18, 2010, 2:05 pm - IP Logged

      four4me,

      I'm a believer but I also understand what joker17 is saying.

      From your example about Peter, consider this.

      Jesus, speaking to Peter said, "You are Cephas (Peter, also means rock, in Greek), upon this rock I will build my church.

      Different theologians and Christian authors have said what really happened was Jesus said, "You are Cephas", pointint go Peter, then poiniting to Himself, "but upon this rock I will build my Church".

      Also, the Bible says absolutly nothing about a pope. So was this appointment of Peter a retro thing, or should that story start off with "Once upon a time...."?

      Just something to think about.

      Now, consdier, we can't go from modern day English to modern day Farsi or Chinese and get it all right. Yet we're going to go from 6,000 year old Hebrew, with no vowels and no punctuation, and no spaces between words, to modern day English and get it right?

      Let's also factor in things like there was a time people in the Eastern Orthodox church killed each other over a disagreement about making the sign of the Cross from left to right or right to left.

      Love thy neighbor as thyself.

      =====================

      Everyone,

      I still want to know, had the lady who prayed to win a jackpot not prayed would she still have won it?

      Or, as the late Kurt Vonnegut Jr. said in his books, was "that moment in time just structured that way"?


      Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

      Lep

      There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

        visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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        Posted: June 18, 2010, 2:31 pm - IP Logged

        DD, i don't mean to be rude, and i am the polar opposite of being "judgemental", but what i am is a man that is one afraid of taking a firm stand on the truths of God, when an opportunity presents itself.

        when you stated that "Jesus Christ isn't God",  you pretty much pushed the game over button on your ability to accurately represent what God said about Himself. 

        if there is any one truth about Jesus Christ, is that He IS God.  the entirety of the old testament pointed to God literally coming in the flesh, to take away the sins of the world.  Christ fulfilled over 300 prophecies about Himself,  and for you to say "He wasn't"???

        Christ made multiple claims that He WAS God, and solidified He WAS,  when He not only stated He would raise Himself from the dead, but did.  only God can raise the dead, and Christ raised HIMSELF, so your assertion that He "wasn't God",  precludes anything you say about interpretive issues after that fact,  because it's obviously clouds what you say and think about scriptural issues.

        you should re-read johns statement again about "health and prospering".   john never alluded to it as a "right", but instead stated "i wish that"...    who doesn't wish good things upon each other as believers?  but john wasn't asserting it as a "right", and prosperity teachers twist that into something john never alluded to.

        it's but one of the many pick-and-choose stand alone scriptures that prosperity teachers cull to use to build thier case, when the WHOLE of biblical passage/interpretation doesn't come close to the prosperity is a right position.

        if you biblically assert that scripture teaches that,  maybe you can explain that hardly ANY (save soloman and a few others) biblical characters were "prosperous" and healthy".   most EVERY biblical character had components of struggles that included health challenges/issues, and most DEFINETLY were not "wealthy".

        and what ---> I <----  mean when I use the term "prosperous", i am using is as per what the prosperity teachers always falsely promise their flock - wealth beyond their dreams.  big houses.  no debt.  fat stock portfolios. 

        you are into it (obviously), so you know that what they mean by "properous", is MATERIAL

        that teaching works.......for the preachers preaching it.

        it's garbage. it's a lie.  and worst of all,  via it's empty false hope promise,  there are Christians leaving a realtionship with God over it in droves.

                    "i am .........."meant to"       

        P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                 until further notice,  it's  france everyday

          visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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          Posted: June 18, 2010, 2:34 pm - IP Logged

          i will be back later joker to answer you.   i always do

          i like these kinds of conversations. 

          enough to finally come out of LP retirement evidently :)

                      "i am .........."meant to"       

          P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                   until further notice,  it's  france everyday

            rundown99's avatar - cigar

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            Posted: June 18, 2010, 2:53 pm - IP Logged

            i will be back later joker to answer you.   i always do

            i like these kinds of conversations. 

            enough to finally come out of LP retirement evidently :)

            Hi Visiondude

             

            OMG  Visiondude!  It's you.  It's been years since I last saw you on here.  I was wondering what happened to you?  What have you been up to lately?  This is rundown99.  I was goldeneye26 awhile back.  Are you coming back to Lottery Post?  I miss seeing you on here.  Let me know how you have been.

            Smart lottery winners form trust to claim their winnings.  They send an attorney to the lottery headquarters to claim the prize in trust, so that ONLY the name of the trust is revealed.  And they tell NO ONE, especially relatives.

            If you ever win a lottery and you are single, the only person you should ever marry is someone who was truly in love with you BEFORE you won the jackpot!

              Jack Pot's avatar - Lottery-028.jpg

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              Posted: June 18, 2010, 3:00 pm - IP Logged

              Re: prosperity doctrine:   "that teaching works.......for the preachers preaching it."

              I Agree! 100%, visiondude.

                visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                Posted: June 18, 2010, 8:28 pm - IP Logged

                the semantics hide the "why" of that question. 

                it never comes down to certain numbers, the amounts of tickets, when and where you buy them, etc,  as much as one thing ....

                "if you are meant to, you will.  if you are not, you won't".

                "praying' wasn't what won her the jackpot, per se.  prayer just enabled her to be in that place that if God had meant her to,  she would, because she was "supposed to".

                i gurantee you that there are FAR MORE amounts of people "praying to win", that maybe even exceed the odds amount. 

                i can also gurantee you that there were ALOT more people that prayed "harder" than her, and most likely via life's circumstances, were probably WAY more "needy" than she was.

                she was "meant to".   it's as simple as that.

                people chase their tails, putting untallied amounts of money and time toward winning a lottery.  just relax. 

                 buy 1ticket, and sit back and wait.  that "if you are meant to" mantra will give you your life back, as well as fatten your wallet

                            "i am .........."meant to"       

                P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                         until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                  visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                  Posted: June 18, 2010, 8:57 pm - IP Logged

                  joker,  you know just as well as i do, that a man can only come to terms on something factual WHEN they are ambivilent about the subject matter, and are actually in a place that they can truly weigh the evidence, in order to EXCLUDE falsehoods,  or include truths.  wherever the true unadulterated evidence leads.

                  seriously,  you know you aren't in that place, because given your advanced intelligence level, you simply refuse eveidence even before you consider it or weigh it.   your first choice is to scream NO, long before you at minimum give your heart that possiblity.  you can never hope to experience, God should you continue that mindset to your grave.

                  there isn't a man on the planet that can refute the evidence about Christ, and who He claimed to be,  HUNDREDS of years even BEFORE He was born.    e.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g. ever said about Him pre carnate, came true.   

                  let's say you are not very good at math.  fine.  there is a whole section at lottery post devoted to the brilliant mathematical minds, and they can help you come to terms with actual hard and fast historical proof.  have them show you the statistical odds of ONE MAN fulfilling 300 prophecies in a lifetime.   shoot,  you can even spot yourself the prophecies that one can write off to being "self fulfilling"

                  say what you will about Gods word being "from man",  but until you can actually come up with a legitimate excuse as to how ONE MAN in history fullfilled hundreds of prophecies himself,  WRITTEN DOWN in a book of history (so that you cannot refute that "it isn't),  then you cannot with any authority say "it ain't true".

                  i was once in a place just like you.  not to be arrogant, because that's NOT who i am, but the difference between my position and yours, is that i actually WEIGHED that evidence, instead of brushing it aside everytime someone served it up.  that evidence led me to a realtionship, whereby God supercededs all that hyperbole you and i go thru about "is He, or isn't He?   because then,  evidence is just icing on the cake, because God is real, and can SPEAK TO YOU...

                  seriously,  you have the actual chance to meet God, and all you can continually come up with is "it ain't true"?

                  i work toward efficientcy on these issues, so that we can exclude a lengthy back and forth with one simple assertion....

                  it ain't because there isn't any evidence, or even that there isn't enough evidence.  it's when you encounter someone who refuses to intellectually/actually refute the evidence,  THAT is where futility lives.

                  God promises ANY man can know Him.  the ONLY person who "can't", is the one that refuses to

                  Jesus Christ raised HIMSELF from the dead.  there is no other.

                  please joker,  re-read your last statement on YOUR post and be honest with yourself......if there really IS a God,  you know then you have no leg to stand on, if you build your life around that last statement.

                  God makes the rules.  we never will.  (that's why there are 1,000's of "religions")

                              "i am .........."meant to"       

                  P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                           until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                    visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                    Posted: June 18, 2010, 9:18 pm - IP Logged

                    the problem becomes when man builds an entire premise (i.e, "religion") upon one or a few passages,  you can run amok pretty quick as to what God originally intended.  which is also why i noted the complete assasination of scripture by prosperity doctrine teachers.  they pull they same thing when "building" their case.  it won't stand against the whole of scripture, because the whole of scripture ALSO teaches the inherent value of God ordained hardships as a means of molding us into what He wants us to be,  instead of the supercial aspects of "give me give me give me"

                    if a person reads thru the entirety of Gods word,  they will be quick to note that the "church" is never ONE under the connotation that it (the church) is a building or an organization.

                    "the church" is EVERY believer, as Gods word points out repeadedly that the Holy Spirit does not indewell a building, but He indwells our hearts.  WE (each one of us that accepts Christ as our only savior)......are the church.  us.  not a building.

                    that makes the "church" mobile,  instead of geogrphically stagnant.

                    one of the many examples of man highjacking Gods word for personal control and self exhortation, which in turn cretaes "sects" within it's ranks

                    to answer joker's assertion just within the subset of Christianities ranks (hundreds of sects within Christianity alone), and which one is right.......that's simple.

                    you come to Christ just as He asked, trusting Him alone for salvation, and not your own "works", and your life afterward will show as to whether you did or not.

                    there is no such thing as "church affliation" that makes any person more right with God, than others.  that's hogwash.  you get "sects" because of the "addition to" issues within the premise of Christ alone.  any organization that teaches that Christ isn't sufficient,  that you should do "this or that" in order to be right, or remain right,  before God......run from them.

                    a subset sect ALWAYS is peppered with those things somewhere in their "teaching",  and that's the deal breaker

                                "i am .........."meant to"       

                    P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                             until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                      visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                      Posted: June 18, 2010, 9:26 pm - IP Logged

                      waasssssssssssssssssssUP?

                      i have never really left, in that most every day i have hung around LP watching the action since my last posts way back when.

                      i left a long time ago, because some things took place, that made me realize i needed to take a break from LP.

                      many times i have contemplated returning, but never felt the timing was right.  i felt it was with this thread.  we will see how long i am "supposed to"......lol

                      i am still doing excellente.  i appreciate you asking,  and seeing that you are still advocating "claiming anonymously".  lol

                      hope everything is good with you, my friend. 

                      visionwadudeomatic

                                  "i am .........."meant to"       

                      P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                               until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                        visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                        Posted: June 18, 2010, 9:31 pm - IP Logged

                        ugh.

                        re-reading my posts.  i forgot to include the quoted text into my reply,  so they can see who i was replying to.

                        obviously some to joker

                        then to cointoss' question about the lady who won

                        four4me's comment about the one true "church"

                        and finally, my friend rundown

                        been away a long time from LP.  a bit rusty on ma skills.  may bad...

                                    "i am .........."meant to"       

                        P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                                 until further notice,  it's  france everyday


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                          Posted: June 19, 2010, 12:18 am - IP Logged

                          I give up....It's futile.....

                            visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                            Posted: June 19, 2010, 2:37 am - IP Logged

                            without sneaking a peak at the gospel of wikipedia, and what it's version of "futility" entails, somethings only truly "futile" when there is no definitive / provable answer.   fortunately,  there is,  and it isn't anywhere near the zip code of "i dunno land".

                            forget about my assertions.  forget about the future assertions that you are going to encounter when you challenge others that God is "not" actually real.   disregard what appears to be an insurmountable wall in front of you,  as to the "which god (if any) is the real one out the thousands" puzzle.   the reality with you, or anyone in your position,  is that if you are intellectually honest with yourself,  you really DON'T wanna know.  if you really DID wanna know,  your first move isn't one of automatic dismissle, and yours always is (if you are brutally honest with yourself).

                            i can appreciate that you don't trust my "opinion" on it, but ask the all knowing googlemaster and see what "it" says about Christ fulfilling over 300 prophecies BEFORE he was ever born,  before you can legitimately use the word "futile".

                            shoot, you might find yourself on the right side of this thread, giving advice on what is "efficient prayer",  so that people don't waste their time (and money) wallowing in the land of false hope.

                            "a man may never.  but only because he really doesn't want to"  (1st futility chapter 1,  verse 1)

                                        "i am .........."meant to"       

                            P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                                     until further notice,  it's  france everyday


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                              Posted: June 19, 2010, 3:22 am - IP Logged

                              Hey Slumbervision,      Romans 11:8

                              I am not responsible for errors people teach as ‘truth’.

                              If you want to believe in a three-headed god that pulled out a mirror and prayed to himself, then go ahead. What I do not understand is the Son of God taught how to pray a prayer to God many repeat weekly with no thought. Yes, among many, God died in a three-in-one formula. I thought three-in-one was nothing more than household oil. You should read the book you claim to have knowledge of.

                              I suppose you would say that J.C. when talking about abundance was talking about material things. John 10:10. Too bad everyone would have to wait nearly 2,000 years for microwave popcorn and gameboys.

                              I have no problem being my father’s son. I know the difference between the two. Popular beliefs are many, but so many “Christians” live as though they are defeated and destroyed (their lord is hung in effigy , sometimes with fake blood). Most are taught sin and guilt and condemnation. Romans 8:1. Most are destroyed for a lack of an accurate knowledge of spiritual things; Hosea 4:6, Romans 10:2.

                              At any point where the Word of God is corrupted by adding a word, deleting a word or turning the whole thing 180 like you can read about in Genesis with Eve, you got a lie. Lies are not truth.

                               Marx was right, religion is the opiate of the people. If you really knew the book, you would see that religion stinks to the high heaven to God. His blueprint was a family and He has much to say about wisdom, understanding and knowledge. He has much also to say about what men do in His name to other men and that’s religion. He does not approve.

                              When the door is closed like the door on the Ark, many will want in with counterfeit credentials. Many will wish the door hits them in the azz. No deals. The trinity BS looks like, smells like and tastes like the real deal but it is not fit for dogfood and is a No-go ticket. Most Christian’s prayer life is as emaciated as the three-headed dead god they worship.

                               

                              DD

                              PS you got that guilt-trip BS pretty good Slumbervision. Your serving some potent laudanum highballs!

                                 
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