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Statistically Speaking - QP's and PP's

Topic closed. 1161 replies. Last post 6 years ago by Todd.

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rdgrnr's avatar - walt
Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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Posted: July 19, 2010, 11:30 am - IP Logged

I know your not I'm just qualifying my statement  and it is based on an  EVEN measure of play I'm quite sure your aware of the  many players that have  won money in all the  games just by playing 1 TICKET so since  each method of  play has the same chance  of winning no matter how  many tickets are purchased it's still very even if I were too buy 50 tickets and  Visiondude 1 ticket he  could  win  and I lose or  vice-versa or we could both win.

I'm not as smart as you guys but I find the part about his one Quick Pick and your 50 Self Picks being an even match a little hard to reconcile so I'll let him address that one.


                                             
                     
                                         

 

 

 

 

                                                                                                   

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                            --Edmund Burke

 

 

    visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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    Posted: July 19, 2010, 12:37 pm - IP Logged

    I'm not as smart as you guys but I find the part about his one Quick Pick and your 50 Self Picks being an even match a little hard to reconcile so I'll let him address that one.

    laughing.

    i got a good sized chuckle out of that one.

    yeah,  "they"  play all these endless sets of numbers,  and end up still most times in the red.

    much ado about nuttin in my semi humble pie opinion.

    but,  i already stated i don't play for "2nd place",  aiming solely for the kihuna.

    whereas the systems players mostly dink their way along,  eeking out anything they can squeeze out.

    they play smaller games mostly,  aiming for smaller wins.  that's cool (if that's your aim).

    not exactly apples to apples anyhoots

    me,  i believe my destiny isn't about the amount of money,  but more about the platform it will create,  therefore my "aim" would naturally be on a "larger scale".

    i liken it to most of the people i have ever known peripheral to my life.  i have watched as they have made the pursuit of "money",  and the accrual of "material possesions" to be their goal in life,  while i have always / consistently had my priorities straight. 

     for me in order - God, my family, and people before "me".

    that commitment has cost me alot in the "get all you can,  while you can" game.   i have never experienced what most of the people around me have,  because i refused to "chase it".

    my boss is the perfect example.   materialistic to a good degree.   but worse,  her money / accomplishments are what define her.   pull that rug out from under her,  she has nothing to hold her up.    me,  i can literally weather anything

    what's dichotomy diddly,  is that she has expended her entire lifetime building this sand based foundation,  only to eventually be passed up by a guy like me (if i am right about being "meant to"),  who could care less about that aspect of life.

    that parallel's what happens in here,  is that alot of  these people that play systems expend rediculous amounts of time and money,  only to be passed up with a guy who bought 1 QP ticket who doesn't care in the 1s place.

    it doesn't define my life now,  and it most certainly won't then

                "i am .........."meant to"       

    P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

             until further notice,  it's  france everyday


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      Posted: July 19, 2010, 12:43 pm - IP Logged

      In theory it's an even match if you go by what VISIONDUDE says about the games being  random and each number has the same chance of being drawn and also that each player has the  same chance of  getting a winning ticket.It does not matter  how many tickets are purchased if you beleive everyone has the same chance based on random number theory.BUT in reality based on my own activity with quick-picks and non-quick-picks I would have too say you do get an EDGE on the game when you apply a certain level of  intelligent selection  when picking the  numbers.Now concerning playing 1 or 50 tickets if I were too  play 50 quick-picks  and visiondude  1 quick-pick he could still win  and I lose or vice-versa  in  theory  it doesn't make a difference since his 1 and my 50 have the same random chance of producing a hit.Now comparing  my 50 self-picks and his quick-pick in theory they  are still evenly matched based  on the  belief in the  randomness of the game.Now if you were too  put this too the test in  REALITY and not just go  by theory then you would get an accurate result if my 50 self-picks are better then his 1 quick-pick or  his better  than mine also you could test 50  quick-picks  against 1 quick-pick and see if  playing more increases  your chances  somehow.Theory is based on  the statistical results or probaility/possibilty concerning random numbers, Reality is  based on actually putting it too the  test and see if the  results  agree  with theory or  not if 50 quick-picks produce a winning ticket and  the 1 quick-pick  does  not every time it's used  then obviously playing  more  increases your chances if they both don't produce winners or  both produce  winners then  they are  obviously evenly matched.

        visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
        light on my feet
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        Posted: July 19, 2010, 1:42 pm - IP Logged

        In theory it's an even match if you go by what VISIONDUDE says about the games being  random and each number has the same chance of being drawn and also that each player has the  same chance of  getting a winning ticket.It does not matter  how many tickets are purchased if you beleive everyone has the same chance based on random number theory.BUT in reality based on my own activity with quick-picks and non-quick-picks I would have too say you do get an EDGE on the game when you apply a certain level of  intelligent selection  when picking the  numbers.Now concerning playing 1 or 50 tickets if I were too  play 50 quick-picks  and visiondude  1 quick-pick he could still win  and I lose or vice-versa  in  theory  it doesn't make a difference since his 1 and my 50 have the same random chance of producing a hit.Now comparing  my 50 self-picks and his quick-pick in theory they  are still evenly matched based  on the  belief in the  randomness of the game.Now if you were too  put this too the test in  REALITY and not just go  by theory then you would get an accurate result if my 50 self-picks are better then his 1 quick-pick or  his better  than mine also you could test 50  quick-picks  against 1 quick-pick and see if  playing more increases  your chances  somehow.Theory is based on  the statistical results or probaility/possibilty concerning random numbers, Reality is  based on actually putting it too the  test and see if the  results  agree  with theory or  not if 50 quick-picks produce a winning ticket and  the 1 quick-pick  does  not every time it's used  then obviously playing  more  increases your chances if they both don't produce winners or  both produce  winners then  they are  obviously evenly matched.

        "In theory it's an even match if you go by what VISIONDUDE says about the games being  random and each number has the same chance of being drawn and also that each player has the  same chance of  getting a winning ticket".

        amen amen anda amen.

        this has been my utmost humble (though consistently "stubborn") contention in here for 8 years. 

        what i "contended against",  is the notion someone could manipulate a 'better outcome'.

        i still don't believe and think (making sure this is not misconstruddled as an "emotional response"),  that anyone can.

        buy a ticket (or multiples) and see what happens. 

        if you are "meant to" ---------> Party

        ********************************************************************************************

         

        whoops, i just read the "my 50 picks are equal to his 1QP"   preambulatory.  (someones really bad at math and even odds.  lol)

        completely ambulatory and handinotcapable,  because the only way that's "fair",  is if you compare 50 PP to 50 QP's.

        hey,  im a fun loving guy.  just for kicks and giggles,  we should do a picking challenge.

        your sets against the same number of QP's i put up.   

        you can even pick a game you have "history" with.

        let's do this.   the board would love to watch it go down.

        i certainly am all for it...

                    "i am .........."meant to"       

        P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                 until further notice,  it's  france everyday

          visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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          Posted: July 19, 2010, 1:59 pm - IP Logged

          "In theory it's an even match if you go by what VISIONDUDE says about the games being  random and each number has the same chance of being drawn and also that each player has the  same chance of  getting a winning ticket".

          amen amen anda amen.

          this has been my utmost humble (though consistently "stubborn") contention in here for 8 years. 

          what i "contended against",  is the notion someone could manipulate a 'better outcome'.

          i still don't believe and think (making sure this is not misconstruddled as an "emotional response"),  that anyone can.

          buy a ticket (or multiples) and see what happens. 

          if you are "meant to" ---------> Party

          ********************************************************************************************

           

          whoops, i just read the "my 50 picks are equal to his 1QP"   preambulatory.  (someones really bad at math and even odds.  lol)

          completely ambulatory and handinotcapable,  because the only way that's "fair",  is if you compare 50 PP to 50 QP's.

          hey,  im a fun loving guy.  just for kicks and giggles,  we should do a picking challenge.

          your sets against the same number of QP's i put up.   

          you can even pick a game you have "history" with.

          let's do this.   the board would love to watch it go down.

          i certainly am all for it...

          i finally just got around to checking my mega millions 1QP from friday nights drawing.

          you guessed it.........im a loser

            naturally,  i would be completely devasted,  having expended countless hours in time and worrying,  if not for the fact i had the first number.

          you cannot imagine how my confidence soared,  "thinking"  i was closer.

          i don't live far enough away from the golden gate bridge to discount emotional suicide,  because i wasn't "meant to".

          but hey,  people have survived that 220ft fall,  so there is that possibility "odds wise"

          getting one number,  this will spur me on for the next go around, when the jackpoteth reaches $50 million.   that's when i throw something at it,  and walk away.

          i almost gave up on my destiny, because it's taking so long.

          but, alas,  reality for my life comes back into focus......VISIONwillalwaysstaythecoursenomatterwherethat"course"mayleadDUDE

          (i ain't playing for 2nd place - and i aint jumping off any bridge ever - unless there is a brand new bungee cord attached to my cankles)

                      "i am .........."meant to"       

          P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                   until further notice,  it's  france everyday

            visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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            Posted: July 19, 2010, 9:12 pm - IP Logged

            I cant afford to play all the numbers this little workout generates so i do the workout and make one or two selections from it. Play my own favorite numbers and from some other excel stuff i have going on.

            powertrails helps me keep track of the numbers that are hot and cold. Many of the selections i get or got from it i put on the prediction boards.

            There have been many times the powertrails number came out but i didn't play them. powertrails isn't fool proof, no system is, it doesn't give any doubles and doubles account for about a 3rd of all the numbers that come out every month. A person who plays doubles all the time would have to get creative and make their on selections based on the hot and cold picks.

            Now profit wise is very hard to describe suppose the goal was one pick 4 straight a year then yes powertrails can do that but if your looking for more than that then you really have to fudge the history to tune it in and hope they use the same ball sets for a couple days. One month the powertrail would have made some one very happy here because 3 times a pick 4 number came up in the workout straight using the past 10 draws as the history.

            I don't play to many pick 3 numbers got the bug for pick 4 having won so many pick 3 numbers in the past got boring so i spent most of my time trying to make pick 4 happen and in the last 3 years had about 3 pick 4 straights each year some were for a buck and some were for 50 cents.

            This year i am not doing so well pick 4 wise i am stuck on some personal selections and am not playing all the numbers i should using powertrails. Which has been my undoing.

            All i can say is powertrails works but like any other system it's got good and bad days. It is not nor is it intended to be a workout that will produce a winner every time.

            "Now profit wise is very hard to describe suppose the goal was one pick 4 straight a year then yes powertrails can do that but if your looking for more than that then you really have to fudge the history to tune it in and hope they use the same ball sets for a couple days".

             i said i would come back to this,  so i have to keep my word...

            (1) one pick4 straight probably won't put a person in the profit column vs money played i am thinking,  and "success" = profit

            (2)  "fudge the history"?    what?   i thought the "history" of a game is what you bank on.   fudging it means it isn't "history" anyway,  it's whatever you guys manufacture it to be.    please,  correct me if i am wrong.

            (3) "hope the use the same ball sets".    what?  (again).    it's not like one can pick up "nuances" from any of the ball sets,  because even common knowledge understands "ball sets" is a relative term anyhow.

            they test balls for weight, consistentcy, etc,  anyway,  and most likely change out ones that aren't within spec.   even so,  they change balls and machines up at such a dizzying pace,  anyone that "thinks"  they have the ability to "recognize" certain balls,  is only fooling themselves.

            there is too much "protective tech" to insure against ball behavior recognition

            **********************************************************************************************

            "All i can say is powertrails works but like any other system it's got good and bad days. It is not nor is it intended to be a workout that will produce a winner every time".

            again,  my "validation requirement"  isn't a hit "here and there",  because that's only fairly assigned to luck,  rather than skill.

            if a person actually has a system that works,  it's "varifiableness" is measured in it's end user profiting from it's use.

            even that isn't proof.   if it is a "system",  it's validation is in it's repeatability - by all that use it (so long as the end user uses it as per it's "design".

            other than that - it's luck

            a true system,  a valid system that actually works,  puts MONEY  in the users wallet.   it does not suck it out

                        "i am .........."meant to"       

            P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                     until further notice,  it's  france everyday

              visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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              Posted: July 19, 2010, 9:27 pm - IP Logged

              "one thing i did catch,  via coin toss's  "explanation",  is that system players are famous for "implying" a win,  but when observed more thoroughly under the statistical played out microscope,  it isn't."

              I'll keep it simple by saying I believe the wheel bet does have the potential to (over time) show a profit but since we're talking about MM where the odds are greatly against us, I won't be making that bet often enough to show any real results. And I don't like simulated bets to prove a point so I won't be posting imaginary bets either.

              "it's just that system players are notorious purveyors of "half truths" when validating "systems".

              I give no credibility to anyone giving a long list of numbers and suggesting "these numbers are good in all states" when they probably can't play those numbers in all states and even if they could, the cost of play exceeds the potential payoff. The common excuse is the reader is suppose to pick out their own best numbers and play them in their state and had so and so played one of the numbers in their state, they would have caught a box hit.

              "and that's why it's completely disappointing whenever i see a person run out of the room once i challenge them to a game of thier "system" vs my "random numbers",  whenever i have done that."

              Since the topic is PPs vs QPs and exclusive to PB and MM, the only real way to settle that debate would be for me to create a 46 combo wheel and post the tickets I bought and for you to buy 46 QPs and post those tickets too. I'm not going to risk at the very least $44 playing MM to prove a point and doubt you would risk $46 either.

              "Since the topic is PPs vs QPs and exclusive to PB and MM, the only real way to settle that debate would be for me to create a 46 combo wheel and post the tickets I bought and for you to buy 46 QPs and post those tickets too. I'm not going to risk at the very least $44 playing MM to prove a point and doubt you would risk $46 either".

               i got an even better idea...

              it won't cost us anything but time.

              you pick whatever methodology you would like to throw at it,  and post it here at LP,   pre-draw game specific.

              i will in turn post my "head my of top"  random QP's,  and we can see where that takes us.

              you would be the only one that accepted the challenge,  so you can add that up however you want. 

               personally,  i like a (person) who will stand up for what they got,  or don't have,  public scrutiny wise.

              too many banty roosters at LP.   all cluck.  no buck Turkey

              i did this years ago,  when i could find a brave soul to do it with.

              not bragging or anything - but i have never lost one of these challenges.

              i would love it if you could take down the QP king.     i don't mind batting  .750

               besides,  i couldn't brag about winning these "challenges"  anyway,  because it's random

              yes, no, maybe ?

               

              VISION

                          "i am .........."meant to"       

              P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                       until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                four4me's avatar - gate1
                MD
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                Posted: July 19, 2010, 10:04 pm - IP Logged

                I knew you would pick this system apart you couldn't resist. This system is used by more people than probably any other system out here not just the people who come to lottery post but all over the place.

                (1) one pick4 straight probably won't put a person in the profit column vs money played i am thinking,  and "success" = profit

                Well that depends two draws a day or one / 4 dollars or 8 dollars suppose a person just selects one of the 4 ways in pick 4 ---- 365 days a year minus a 5000 win = a good profit.

                (2)  "fudge the history"?    what?   i thought the "history" of a game is what you bank on.   fudging it means it isn't "history" anyway,  it's whatever you guys manufacture it to be.    please,  correct me if i am wrong.

                read the powertrails instructions again this time try and understand it.

                This is form powertrails instructions below it is not the only way BobP describes things to do.

                "Instead of counting up the digits daily, do it
                once a week and play the same sets for seven days.
                Use more than seven past games, try 10, 14 or 21
                days for the count up."



                 I only use the last 10 draws but some people might need to fudge it and use more or less draw history GOT IT

                (3) "hope the use the same ball sets".    what?  (again).    it's not like one can pick up "nuances" from any of the ball sets,  because even common knowledge understands "ball sets" is a relative term anyhow.

                It's only relevant if you understand or comprehend how your lottery does things sometimes they don't always switch the balls sometimes they might just use the same sets.

                they test balls for weight, consistentcy, etc,  anyway,  and most likely change out ones that aren't within spec.   even so,  they change balls and machines up at such a dizzying pace,  anyone that "thinks"  they have the ability to "recognize" certain balls,  is only fooling themselves.

                I know everything you could possibly know about the balls i am a machinist and i worked with the people at garron who supply most of the balls and equipment the lottery uses. Consider this if i wanted to i could weigh a set of balls and within the parameters of the weight lets say 2 or 3 grams load 8 heavy balls in a  tray and 4 light balls. Ahem!

                there is too much "protective tech" to insure against ball behavior recognition

                Keep thinking that. 

                **********************************************************************************************

                "All i can say is powertrails works but like any other system it's got good and bad days. It is not nor is it intended to be a workout that will produce a winner every time".

                again,  my "validation requirement"  isn't a hit "here and there",  because that's only fairly assigned to luck,  rather than skill.

                if a person actually has a system that works,  it's "varifiableness" is measured in it's end user profiting from it's use.

                even that isn't proof.   if it is a "system",  it's validation is in it's repeatability - by all that use it (so long as the end user uses it as per it's "design".

                other than that - it's luck

                a true system,  a valid system that actually works,  puts MONEY  in the users wallet.   it does not suck it out

                VD this powertrails works it is used by some of the longest members here. To include people from maybells.

                Some people might have better luck with it than others depending on how they use it again the instructions come into play here what works for one state might not work for another unless you modify how you use it or how you play it.

                If you take the approach that a system has to win every time you play it in order for it to be a good system you are delusional if i spend 600 dollars a year and make 10 grand then i made a good profit. Sometimes for gamblers it's not about how much they spent it's about how much they win all at one time..... suppose powertrails kicks in for a week worth of draws and a person bets more money straight on a number then they win the lottery for 20 30 40 50 1000 grand or more depending on how much they bet on a straight.. 

                  visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                  light on my feet
                  United States
                  Member #356
                  May 20, 2002
                  2744 Posts
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                  Posted: July 19, 2010, 11:38 pm - IP Logged

                  I knew you would pick this system apart you couldn't resist. This system is used by more people than probably any other system out here not just the people who come to lottery post but all over the place.

                  (1) one pick4 straight probably won't put a person in the profit column vs money played i am thinking,  and "success" = profit

                  Well that depends two draws a day or one / 4 dollars or 8 dollars suppose a person just selects one of the 4 ways in pick 4 ---- 365 days a year minus a 5000 win = a good profit.

                  (2)  "fudge the history"?    what?   i thought the "history" of a game is what you bank on.   fudging it means it isn't "history" anyway,  it's whatever you guys manufacture it to be.    please,  correct me if i am wrong.

                  read the powertrails instructions again this time try and understand it.

                  This is form powertrails instructions below it is not the only way BobP describes things to do.

                  "Instead of counting up the digits daily, do it
                  once a week and play the same sets for seven days.
                  Use more than seven past games, try 10, 14 or 21
                  days for the count up."



                   I only use the last 10 draws but some people might need to fudge it and use more or less draw history GOT IT

                  (3) "hope the use the same ball sets".    what?  (again).    it's not like one can pick up "nuances" from any of the ball sets,  because even common knowledge understands "ball sets" is a relative term anyhow.

                  It's only relevant if you understand or comprehend how your lottery does things sometimes they don't always switch the balls sometimes they might just use the same sets.

                  they test balls for weight, consistentcy, etc,  anyway,  and most likely change out ones that aren't within spec.   even so,  they change balls and machines up at such a dizzying pace,  anyone that "thinks"  they have the ability to "recognize" certain balls,  is only fooling themselves.

                  I know everything you could possibly know about the balls i am a machinist and i worked with the people at garron who supply most of the balls and equipment the lottery uses. Consider this if i wanted to i could weigh a set of balls and within the parameters of the weight lets say 2 or 3 grams load 8 heavy balls in a  tray and 4 light balls. Ahem!

                  there is too much "protective tech" to insure against ball behavior recognition

                  Keep thinking that. 

                  **********************************************************************************************

                  "All i can say is powertrails works but like any other system it's got good and bad days. It is not nor is it intended to be a workout that will produce a winner every time".

                  again,  my "validation requirement"  isn't a hit "here and there",  because that's only fairly assigned to luck,  rather than skill.

                  if a person actually has a system that works,  it's "varifiableness" is measured in it's end user profiting from it's use.

                  even that isn't proof.   if it is a "system",  it's validation is in it's repeatability - by all that use it (so long as the end user uses it as per it's "design".

                  other than that - it's luck

                  a true system,  a valid system that actually works,  puts MONEY  in the users wallet.   it does not suck it out

                  VD this powertrails works it is used by some of the longest members here. To include people from maybells.

                  Some people might have better luck with it than others depending on how they use it again the instructions come into play here what works for one state might not work for another unless you modify how you use it or how you play it.

                  If you take the approach that a system has to win every time you play it in order for it to be a good system you are delusional if i spend 600 dollars a year and make 10 grand then i made a good profit. Sometimes for gamblers it's not about how much they spent it's about how much they win all at one time..... suppose powertrails kicks in for a week worth of draws and a person bets more money straight on a number then they win the lottery for 20 30 40 50 1000 grand or more depending on how much they bet on a straight.. 

                  "I knew you would pick this system apart you couldn't resist. This system is used by more people than probably any other system out here not just the people who come to lottery post but all over the place."

                  of course i am,  because that's the discussion of this thread,  and you put powertrails up for auction,  and you know me...

                  if it's used by the "most people",  i would naturally think it should also serve up the "best results".   we will see...

                  ********************************************************************************************

                  (1)  i was making the distinction of money played,  vs money won.  if most people are honest when using systems,  "most people" lose money,  rather than making money on their investment into it.   rarely can one ever find someone making a consistent profit.    that's why i accurately stated "one straight" does not necessarily constitute success.   

                  (2)  "more or less" draw history sounds better,  maybe.   but the terms "fudging the history"?   that sounded comical,  compared to lotterytech saying he relied so much on "past history".    i thought "gee,   you like it,  but change it when the whim strikes you?   that just sounded like lottery system schizophrenia to me. 

                  *******************************************************************************************

                  "It's only relevant if you understand or comprehend how your lottery does things sometimes they don't always switch the balls sometimes they might just use the same sets".

                  but you,  or anyone else in the history of this lottery board.......... has ZERO heads up as to whenever they "change sets".

                  no one knows which balls /machines they are gonna use any given draw.

                  i wouldn't buy a stick of gum from someone claiming "they knew"  beforehand.

                  no one does

                  ************************************************************************************

                  "I know everything you could possibly know about the balls i am a machinist and i worked with the people at garron who supply most of the balls and equipment the lottery uses. Consider this if i wanted to i could weigh a set of balls and within the parameters of the weight lets say 2 or 3 grams load 8 heavy balls in a  tray and 4 light balls. Ahem!"

                  you could,  but you would be sharing a bunk with bubba,  right next to lindsay lohan,  because the lottery officials" weigh the balls consistently to see if anything incongruent has changed place,  and they change out balls right away that don't match equal specs.

                  that statement is very bothersome,  because it far more indicates wishful thinking than reality.

                  a realistic thinking individual realizes a ball set with that 'anomoly'   wouldn't last two draws,  whereas a prison sentence connected to that scheme outta getcha 10years (+/-)  i am guessing.

                  the question becomes now,  what won't lengths will systems players go to,  to convince themselves that stuff works?

                  yikes

                  you know how we know you can't do the equivalent of insider lottery trading?    your self admitted "loses".

                  i know the "tech" works.   you just proved it does...

                              "i am .........."meant to"       

                  P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                           until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                    visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                    light on my feet
                    United States
                    Member #356
                    May 20, 2002
                    2744 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: July 19, 2010, 11:46 pm - IP Logged

                    I knew you would pick this system apart you couldn't resist. This system is used by more people than probably any other system out here not just the people who come to lottery post but all over the place.

                    (1) one pick4 straight probably won't put a person in the profit column vs money played i am thinking,  and "success" = profit

                    Well that depends two draws a day or one / 4 dollars or 8 dollars suppose a person just selects one of the 4 ways in pick 4 ---- 365 days a year minus a 5000 win = a good profit.

                    (2)  "fudge the history"?    what?   i thought the "history" of a game is what you bank on.   fudging it means it isn't "history" anyway,  it's whatever you guys manufacture it to be.    please,  correct me if i am wrong.

                    read the powertrails instructions again this time try and understand it.

                    This is form powertrails instructions below it is not the only way BobP describes things to do.

                    "Instead of counting up the digits daily, do it
                    once a week and play the same sets for seven days.
                    Use more than seven past games, try 10, 14 or 21
                    days for the count up."



                     I only use the last 10 draws but some people might need to fudge it and use more or less draw history GOT IT

                    (3) "hope the use the same ball sets".    what?  (again).    it's not like one can pick up "nuances" from any of the ball sets,  because even common knowledge understands "ball sets" is a relative term anyhow.

                    It's only relevant if you understand or comprehend how your lottery does things sometimes they don't always switch the balls sometimes they might just use the same sets.

                    they test balls for weight, consistentcy, etc,  anyway,  and most likely change out ones that aren't within spec.   even so,  they change balls and machines up at such a dizzying pace,  anyone that "thinks"  they have the ability to "recognize" certain balls,  is only fooling themselves.

                    I know everything you could possibly know about the balls i am a machinist and i worked with the people at garron who supply most of the balls and equipment the lottery uses. Consider this if i wanted to i could weigh a set of balls and within the parameters of the weight lets say 2 or 3 grams load 8 heavy balls in a  tray and 4 light balls. Ahem!

                    there is too much "protective tech" to insure against ball behavior recognition

                    Keep thinking that. 

                    **********************************************************************************************

                    "All i can say is powertrails works but like any other system it's got good and bad days. It is not nor is it intended to be a workout that will produce a winner every time".

                    again,  my "validation requirement"  isn't a hit "here and there",  because that's only fairly assigned to luck,  rather than skill.

                    if a person actually has a system that works,  it's "varifiableness" is measured in it's end user profiting from it's use.

                    even that isn't proof.   if it is a "system",  it's validation is in it's repeatability - by all that use it (so long as the end user uses it as per it's "design".

                    other than that - it's luck

                    a true system,  a valid system that actually works,  puts MONEY  in the users wallet.   it does not suck it out

                    VD this powertrails works it is used by some of the longest members here. To include people from maybells.

                    Some people might have better luck with it than others depending on how they use it again the instructions come into play here what works for one state might not work for another unless you modify how you use it or how you play it.

                    If you take the approach that a system has to win every time you play it in order for it to be a good system you are delusional if i spend 600 dollars a year and make 10 grand then i made a good profit. Sometimes for gamblers it's not about how much they spent it's about how much they win all at one time..... suppose powertrails kicks in for a week worth of draws and a person bets more money straight on a number then they win the lottery for 20 30 40 50 1000 grand or more depending on how much they bet on a straight.. 

                    you just called me "VD".    lol

                     i was wondering how long that would take.  took alot longer than i would have "bet".   pretty funny.  i don't mind.    anyway.....

                    ********************************************************************************************

                    If you take the approach that a system has to win every time you play it in order for it to be a good system you are delusional if i spend 600 dollars a year and make 10 grand then i made a good profit. Sometimes for gamblers it's not about how much they spent it's about how much they win all at one time..... suppose powertrails kicks in for a week worth of draws and a person bets more money straight on a number then they win the lottery for 20 30 40 50 1000 grand or more depending on how much they bet on a straight.. 

                    then bring this "person" here. 

                    the one that actually profits consistently,  because to imply you guys work a system to lose money is really lying to the whole board of the "why",   of why you pursue it so intently.

                       every system player works to make a profit.

                    bring that person front and center,  that actually can.

                                "i am .........."meant to"       

                    P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                             until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                      four4me's avatar - gate1
                      MD
                      United States
                      Member #1701
                      June 18, 2003
                      8359 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: July 20, 2010, 12:42 am - IP Logged

                      you just called me "VD".    lol

                       i was wondering how long that would take.  took alot longer than i would have "bet".   pretty funny.  i don't mind.    anyway.....

                      ********************************************************************************************

                      If you take the approach that a system has to win every time you play it in order for it to be a good system you are delusional if i spend 600 dollars a year and make 10 grand then i made a good profit. Sometimes for gamblers it's not about how much they spent it's about how much they win all at one time..... suppose powertrails kicks in for a week worth of draws and a person bets more money straight on a number then they win the lottery for 20 30 40 50 1000 grand or more depending on how much they bet on a straight.. 

                      then bring this "person" here. 

                      the one that actually profits consistently,  because to imply you guys work a system to lose money is really lying to the whole board of the "why",   of why you pursue it so intently.

                         every system player works to make a profit.

                      bring that person front and center,  that actually can.

                      "I knew you would pick this system apart you couldn't resist. This system is used by more people than probably any other system out here not just the people who come to lottery post but all over the place."

                      of course i am,  because that's the discussion of this thread,  and you put powertrails up for auction,  and you know me...

                      Yea did you test this system or do i have to do it for California just to prove my point this system works everybody that uses it knows it.

                      if it's used by the "most people",  i would naturally think it should also serve up the "best results".   we will see...

                      ********************************************************************************************

                      (1)  i was making the distinction of money played,  vs money won.  if most people are honest when using systems,  "most people" lose money,  rather than making money on their investment into it.   rarely can one ever find someone making a consistent profit.    that's why i accurately stated "one straight" does not necessarily constitute success.   

                      Thats your mind working overtime again i see..... a profit is anytime a person spends money and wins or gets more in return than what they spent

                      (2)  "more or less" draw history sounds better,  maybe.   but the terms "fudging the history"?   that sounded comical,  compared to lotterytech saying he relied so much on "past history".    i thought "gee,   you like it,  but change it when the whim strikes you?   that just sounded like lottery system schizophrenia to me. 

                      It's a part of the you gotta figure it out for yourself like i said i use 10 past draws and i don't change up this could be a problem for me.

                        1 separate the draws..... I don't maybe i should.

                      2 used more or less history. --- well i have a block here 10 balls per machine 10 ball per machine rotate from hot to cold

                      3 played the sets of numbers every draw. ----Or do the workout and play the selected numbers for a week . Something i never do and it's cost me because those sets of numbers have came out.

                       

                      *******************************************************************************************

                      "It's only relevant if you understand or comprehend how your lottery does things sometimes they don't always switch the balls sometimes they might just use the same sets".

                      but you,  or anyone else in the history of this lottery board.......... has ZERO heads up as to whenever they "change sets".

                      no one knows which balls /machines they are gonna use any given draw.

                      i wouldn't buy a stick of gum from someone claiming "they knew"  beforehand.

                      no one does

                      Well mister i know it all for over a year our lottery had a video on their site of how the number are weighed and all the steps they take to prepare for draw. Our past director went on the discovery channel and explain how the ball sets are selected. He said an employee comes to work and presses a button on a computer and that computer tells him/her what balls sets from what safe are to be used for the midday and evening draws the computer picks those machines and ball sets at random so who's to say the computer doesn't pick the same balls as in a previous draw.

                      ************************************************************************************

                      "I know everything you could possibly know about the balls i am a machinist and i worked with the people at garron who supply most of the balls and equipment the lottery uses. Consider this if i wanted to i could weigh a set of balls and within the parameters of the weight lets say 2 or 3 grams load 8 heavy balls in a  tray and 4 light balls. Ahem!"

                      you could,  but you would be sharing a bunk with bubba,  right next to lindsay lohan,  because the lottery officials" weigh the balls consistently to see if anything incongruent has changed place,  and they change out balls right away that don't match equal specs.

                      It's a scale that measures the balls it's fool proof in that very ball must fall in between plus or minus 3 tenths of a gram. When the ball sets were first made they were calibrated for that weight and then that are placed in a tray much like an egg crate. The are packaged and shipped to the lottery's that way. So unless something drastically alterers the balls the will remain in that tray until they are replaced.

                      that statement is very bothersome,  because it far more indicates wishful thinking than reality.

                      a realistic thinking individual realizes a ball set with that 'anomoly'   wouldn't last two draws,  whereas a prison sentence connected to that scheme outta getcha 10years (+/-)  i am guessing.

                      the question becomes now,  what won't lengths will systems players go to,  to convince themselves that stuff works?

                      yikes

                      you know how we know you can't do the equivalent of insider lottery trading?    your self admitted "loses".

                      i know the "tech" works.   you just proved it does...

                      You didn't do anything other than read powertrails, if in fact you even read it you replied to my post the same general rhetoric you replied to anybody else's post about systems.

                      You didn't test powertrails in any shape form or fashion.

                      The fact is you could care less about the lottery pick 3/4/5/6 games have not interest except your one quick pick ticket you purchase.

                      The proof is pick a way you want to use powertrails and do the workout any way it is described and stick to the plan.

                      Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

                                     I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.

                        United States
                        Member #68002
                        December 10, 2008
                        477 Posts
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                        Posted: July 20, 2010, 8:48 am - IP Logged

                        "FOUR4ME"

                        This  is the  same  stubborness  I've dealt with and I'm not saying you can  make a  profit with my strategy plus his criteria for a system too be valid is totally unrealistic it's based on his very limited knowledge of how systems and  strategies work or  the  random nature of lottery numbers.If a person can hit more than once using  some kind of system or  strategy then that's PROOF it works but he says it has too work consistantly and with a profit NO method in the  world  can  do that because it's NOT the  system  at work here it's  the player the system just gives you an edge  and lays out the information regarding how the numbers  behave throughout  a draw history but the final decision  is the PLAYER  the system  doesn't work on  it's on it's not AUTOMATED it requires human  interaction.

                          jarasan's avatar - new patrick.gif
                          Harbinger
                          D.C./MD.
                          United States
                          Member #44103
                          July 30, 2006
                          5583 Posts
                          Online
                          Posted: July 20, 2010, 10:17 am - IP Logged

                          "FOUR4ME"

                          This  is the  same  stubborness  I've dealt with and I'm not saying you can  make a  profit with my strategy plus his criteria for a system too be valid is totally unrealistic it's based on his very limited knowledge of how systems and  strategies work or  the  random nature of lottery numbers.If a person can hit more than once using  some kind of system or  strategy then that's PROOF it works but he says it has too work consistantly and with a profit NO method in the  world  can  do that because it's NOT the  system  at work here it's  the player the system just gives you an edge  and lays out the information regarding how the numbers  behave throughout  a draw history but the final decision  is the PLAYER  the system  doesn't work on  it's on it's not AUTOMATED it requires human  interaction.

                          For some reason this young lady comes to mind, for those that just play 1 ticket and obsess to discredit and diminish lottery players' methods/systems.

                            visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                            light on my feet
                            United States
                            Member #356
                            May 20, 2002
                            2744 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: July 20, 2010, 1:56 pm - IP Logged

                            For some reason this young lady comes to mind, for those that just play 1 ticket and obsess to discredit and diminish lottery players' methods/systems.

                            " for those that just play 1 ticket and obsess to discredit and diminish lottery players' methods/systems"

                            nope.   wrong accusation again.

                            if i my "aim"  was what you just said it was,  my fingers would be bleeding from all the typing i would have to do in here,  given the "targets"   you just described.

                            like i already explained before...........my aim is false hope,   and all the "other people" that watch these boards.

                            i already realize i am not going to change the minds of people like you with simple common sense. 

                             my push is all the "others" watching this,  and by picking systems apart systematically,  i provide a service,   i call it "lottery truth in lending".

                            aka,  if you are goiung to pursue the lottery,  fine.     just be smart about it,  and don't waste your time pursuing aspects of it that are a waste of time (in my opinion).

                            would i do,  is throw out some common sense about it,  and then let the dusy settle where it may.

                            what anyone chooses to do after that,  is beyond me.

                            i find it completely telling,  that you guys whine when i do it.   seems to me a man in a position of "strength" would laugh.

                            they surely wouldn't "whine".

                            besides,  it's only my "opinion".   what's so "threatening" to you guys about my opinion?    ROFL

                                        "i am .........."meant to"       

                            P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                                     until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                              visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                              light on my feet
                              United States
                              Member #356
                              May 20, 2002
                              2744 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: July 20, 2010, 2:12 pm - IP Logged

                              "FOUR4ME"

                              This  is the  same  stubborness  I've dealt with and I'm not saying you can  make a  profit with my strategy plus his criteria for a system too be valid is totally unrealistic it's based on his very limited knowledge of how systems and  strategies work or  the  random nature of lottery numbers.If a person can hit more than once using  some kind of system or  strategy then that's PROOF it works but he says it has too work consistantly and with a profit NO method in the  world  can  do that because it's NOT the  system  at work here it's  the player the system just gives you an edge  and lays out the information regarding how the numbers  behave throughout  a draw history but the final decision  is the PLAYER  the system  doesn't work on  it's on it's not AUTOMATED it requires human  interaction.

                              "but he says it has too work consistantly and with a profit NO method in the  world  can  do that"

                              finally.  it only took 27 pages of back and forth for a truthful admission.

                              i realize the above highlighted statement was extracted out of context from your above complete "admission",  but hey,  what you said is true........no method in the world can do that.

                              this has been my assertion all along.   

                               finally

                              you guys play tug-o-war with thruth about this. 

                              because just as you made the statement above,  you go on to say ....."but the final decision  is the PLAYER  the system  doesn't work on  it's on".

                              first you say no method can do that,  then you try and reel yourself back in,  and save the day by implying it is possible,  because it's up to the player tweeking it.

                              uh, no.

                              if a system works,  it's "formula"  doesn't have to change, to "work".   

                              it would work the same from player to player,  if they are playing the same matrix game.

                              "tweaking it"  demonstrates it doesn't work

                              once a formula is correct and established,  it will work automatically

                              all the parameters you guys have explained that you work around in the 8 years i have been here (variables. odds.  sums, due, etc,)  one things for certain......ball sets and machines are the same methodology they use.

                              if the lottery uses the same methodology,  then you have no "excuse".

                              either you can extract a consistent profit,  or you can't.

                              consistent losses = a guess in my most humble opinion.

                                          "i am .........."meant to"       

                              P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                                       until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                                 
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