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Statistically Speaking - QP's and PP's

Topic closed. 1161 replies. Last post 6 years ago by Todd.

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Posted: August 20, 2010, 11:11 pm - IP Logged

I arduously hunt believers?.....ha ha ha ha...

All I did was ask a simple question. That's hunting believers and trapping them or whatever you decipher?...........lol

Yup, On my days off, I scour the net looking for unsuspecting believers to argue with. Once I find those scoundrels, I pounce on them and use smoke screen tactics and become biligerent.

 

    visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
    light on my feet
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    Posted: August 20, 2010, 11:11 pm - IP Logged

    oh,  and light does travel at that speed now,  when someone measures it now

    when God first created light (and all the other peripheral entities surrounding your "example")..... it's "travel" (as you put it)  was instantaneous.

    that's a whole lot more mindblowing than "186,000 miles per sec"

    see how true science works

     

    Really? And how the heck do you know what God did? Wow....You are good. You know what God does, thinks, and will do?

    You need to put pads, really thick pads on all of the walls in your house.

     

    Even the loonies in the looney bin would think you're nuts........

     

    crazy

     

     

     

     

    that's a whole lot more mindblowing than "186,000 miles per sec"

     

    The only thing here that's mind blowing is that you really believe this stuff you spew. Now that's mind blowing.

    "Really? And how the heck do you know what God did? Wow....You are good.

    yep, because He told me how he accomplished that.  told you too,  but your arrogance shucked it out your revolving back door.

    "how He told" me was thru a man called moses,  who had a personal relationship with God,  whereby God entrusted many of these "gems"  to moses,  so that he could pass them onto guys like me,  so that when UNBELIEVERS LIKE you yell "how do YOU know",   and i could answer "them".

    moses didn't witness the actual event,  but God personally told him,  and i can trust moses.

    know how i can "trust"  moses's accounting of it?   the pay it forward rule.

    i can trust moses,  because moses parallels ALL the rest of the other 40 authors of Gods word.   you can qualify (or similarly reject)  it being "inspired" by God when it parallels ALL the other works.

    moses's was part of the prophecy parade.  the COLLECTIVE "parade"  of prophecies where every single one of them came to pass with 100%  accuracy.

    moses passes the "collective truth"  qualification litmus test,  and THAT'S how i KNOW God created LIGHT  "instantly"

    see,  you can't disqualify moses's account,  because of moses's COLLECTIVE credibilty.

    something you definitely DON'T possess

    *************************************************************************************

    genesis 1 verse 3    (derived from a personal conversation)

     3 and God said, "let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

     

    I.N.S.T.A.N.E.O.U.S.

    **************************************************************************************

     

    "You know what God does, thinks, and will do?

    yep. 

    i know what He has done,  based on what He has said He's done.

      i know what He "thinks" when He has stated it. 

    i know what He "will do"  when He tells me what He "will do".

    your an UNBELIEVER.   

    why do you possibly think that He would tell YOU these things,  or that you would know how these arena's in life work,  when all you EVER DO is talk trash about Him?

    how do you think your ability to conduct yourself in ANY relationship like that would ever allow you access to intimacy.

    IT WOULDN'T

    so far,  your an arrogant jerk,  so you don't deserve TO know.

    truth is,  you turn the "jerk switch" off and get some humility that actually displays respect,  and you will be able to say YES to those questions.

    truth isx2.........you aren't remotely interested IN playing on that side of the tracks

    that be the REAL truth...

                "i am .........."meant to"       

    P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

             until further notice,  it's  france everyday


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      Posted: August 20, 2010, 11:15 pm - IP Logged

      "Really? And how the heck do you know what God did? Wow....You are good.

      yep, because He told me how he accomplished that.  told you too,  but your arrogance shucked it out your revolving back door.

      "how He told" me was thru a man called moses,  who had a personal relationship with God,  whereby God entrusted many of these "gems"  to moses,  so that he could pass them onto guys like me,  so that when UNBELIEVERS LIKE you yell "how do YOU know",   and i could answer "them".

      moses didn't witness the actual event,  but God personally told him,  and i can trust moses.

      know how i can "trust"  moses's accounting of it?   the pay it forward rule.

      i can trust moses,  because moses parallels ALL the rest of the other 40 authors of Gods word.   you can qualify (or similarly reject)  it being "inspired" by God when it parallels ALL the other works.

      moses's was part of the prophecy parade.  the COLLECTIVE "parade"  of prophecies where every single one of them came to pass with 100%  accuracy.

      moses passes the "collective truth"  qualification litmus test,  and THAT'S how i KNOW God created LIGHT  "instantly"

      see,  you can't disqualify moses's account,  because of moses's COLLECTIVE credibilty.

      something you definitely DON'T possess

      *************************************************************************************

      genesis 1 verse 3    (derived from a personal conversation)

       3 and God said, "let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

       

      I.N.S.T.A.N.E.O.U.S.

      **************************************************************************************

       

      "You know what God does, thinks, and will do?

      yep. 

      i know what He has done,  based on what He has said He's done.

        i know what He "thinks" when He has stated it. 

      i know what He "will do"  when He tells me what He "will do".

      your an UNBELIEVER.   

      why do you possibly think that He would tell YOU these things,  or that you would know how these arena's in life work,  when all you EVER DO is talk trash about Him?

      how do you think your ability to conduct yourself in ANY relationship like that would ever allow you access to intimacy.

      IT WOULDN'T

      so far,  your an arrogant jerk,  so you don't deserve TO know.

      truth is,  you turn the "jerk switch" off and get some humility that actually displays respect,  and you will be able to say YES to those questions.

      truth isx2.........you aren't remotely interested IN playing on that side of the tracks

      that be the REAL truth...

      yep, because He told me how he accomplished that. 

      Now i've heard of everything.....lol

      When is the movie coming out?

      "God spoke to me" will be the title.

      Can I get some of what you're smoking?...is it even legal?

      Green laugh


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        Posted: August 20, 2010, 11:23 pm - IP Logged

        "Really? And how the heck do you know what God did? Wow....You are good.

        yep, because He told me how he accomplished that.  told you too,  but your arrogance shucked it out your revolving back door.

        "how He told" me was thru a man called moses,  who had a personal relationship with God,  whereby God entrusted many of these "gems"  to moses,  so that he could pass them onto guys like me,  so that when UNBELIEVERS LIKE you yell "how do YOU know",   and i could answer "them".

        moses didn't witness the actual event,  but God personally told him,  and i can trust moses.

        know how i can "trust"  moses's accounting of it?   the pay it forward rule.

        i can trust moses,  because moses parallels ALL the rest of the other 40 authors of Gods word.   you can qualify (or similarly reject)  it being "inspired" by God when it parallels ALL the other works.

        moses's was part of the prophecy parade.  the COLLECTIVE "parade"  of prophecies where every single one of them came to pass with 100%  accuracy.

        moses passes the "collective truth"  qualification litmus test,  and THAT'S how i KNOW God created LIGHT  "instantly"

        see,  you can't disqualify moses's account,  because of moses's COLLECTIVE credibilty.

        something you definitely DON'T possess

        *************************************************************************************

        genesis 1 verse 3    (derived from a personal conversation)

         3 and God said, "let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

         

        I.N.S.T.A.N.E.O.U.S.

        **************************************************************************************

         

        "You know what God does, thinks, and will do?

        yep. 

        i know what He has done,  based on what He has said He's done.

          i know what He "thinks" when He has stated it. 

        i know what He "will do"  when He tells me what He "will do".

        your an UNBELIEVER.   

        why do you possibly think that He would tell YOU these things,  or that you would know how these arena's in life work,  when all you EVER DO is talk trash about Him?

        how do you think your ability to conduct yourself in ANY relationship like that would ever allow you access to intimacy.

        IT WOULDN'T

        so far,  your an arrogant jerk,  so you don't deserve TO know.

        truth is,  you turn the "jerk switch" off and get some humility that actually displays respect,  and you will be able to say YES to those questions.

        truth isx2.........you aren't remotely interested IN playing on that side of the tracks

        that be the REAL truth...

        You've got some balls Vision. You make it sound as a matter of fact. Moses said this and Moses said that, so it makes it true. Again, more old scribblings. You just don't get it do you?

        Can you even answer a question using your own words? And If you do use your own words, try to make it sound realistic at least...lol Don't tell me God told you so....Give me that much respect. C'mon....

        Use the brain God gave you. I'm using it, why can't you? Ask questions instead of answering questions you have no answer to. Don't make them up as you go.  

         

         

         

          visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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          Posted: August 20, 2010, 11:30 pm - IP Logged

          You've got some balls Vision. You make it sound as a matter of fact. Moses said this and Moses said that, so it makes it true. Again, more old scribblings. You just don't get it do you?

          Can you even answer a question using your own words? And If you do use your own words, try to make it sound realistic at least...lol Don't tell me God told you so....Give me that much respect. C'mon....

          Use the brain God gave you. I'm using it, why can't you? Ask questions instead of answering questions you have no answer to. Don't make them up as you go.  

           

           

           

          i noticed you purposefully AVOIDED the question i asked you about the bible being an historical document?

          you wouldn't be afraid of HONESTLY answering that question,  would you.

                      "i am .........."meant to"       

          P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                   until further notice,  it's  france everyday


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            Posted: August 20, 2010, 11:37 pm - IP Logged

            i noticed you purposefully AVOIDED the question i asked you about the bible being an historical document?

            you wouldn't be afraid of HONESTLY answering that question,  would you.

            I thought I already did. See.....you don't read what I write. I'll go look for it and post the link. It's only a page or two before this one....geeesh...!


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              Posted: August 20, 2010, 11:38 pm - IP Logged

              I thought I already did. See.....you don't read what I write. I'll go look for it and post the link. It's only a page or two before this one....geeesh...!

              joker17joker17's avatar - avatar 7254Platinum Member
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              along"So far, all you and Vision have produced is either fairytale stories from the Bible as proof "

              like i reminded you,  it's a prerecorded history book,  whether you believe it is a book of "fables"  or not,  and one thing even you can't do is dream up ENOUIGH of an excuse to make it "not a historical document"

              speaking of intellectual integrity,   for you to say "it isn't",   you would have to wipe out the REST of world history along with it.

              your an illusionist of what's really "true",  let's see you criss angel that into oblivion.

               

              since you started this current rodeo,  i would LOVE to see you say the bible "isn't"  an historical document.

              truecritic is afraid of that one.   maybe you will be brave enough to make an attempt on white outing history

              yes or no,  is the bible an historical document ,  joker?

              The Bible's stories have been interpreted and changed more times than Tammy Faye Baker's hairdo.

              tammy

               

               

               

               

               

               The Bible may be an historical document, but that doesn't make it true. The Quaran is a historical document also, that doesn't make it true. And so are the thousands of other religious documents written in the past, and that also doesn't make them true. You my friend, need serious help.

              The story of Jesus and his activities is plagiarism. Many religions before and after Christ's time had the exact same events told in their stories.

              What you need to do is to do some investigating in other places to get some perspective. But i know ou won't cause the blinders are limiting your peripheral vision.

              It's futile to argue with you, but go ahead and keep demanding proof for PP selections to outweigh Qps.

               

              No Problems, only solutions......

                visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                Posted: August 21, 2010, 12:13 am - IP Logged

                so then,  where are these "plagairistic"  individuals you "forgot"  to produce?    if these people were so significant in history,  we would know about "them".

                funny how all these imaginary pretenders to the "faith"  are MIA,  and you CANNOT produce "them"

                that's an intellectually rediculous excuse

                 

                and the bible has NEVER lost it's original intent and form,  despite it's many "translations".   

                that's another intellectually lame excuse.

                i just demonstrated that thru the fulfillment of prophecy,  because no where in time did any aspect of the trustworthyness of what was entrusted knowledge wise ever get "ditched"  in the literary pile of human effort.

                as if God "lost"  his mojo from a weakly translated word here or there.   that's  rediculously lame

                get ahold of a copy of the torah........it has NEVER CHANGED,  and it contains the original starting gates of prophecy,   and those prophecies were fulfilled by Christ and recorded by eyewitnesses,  who i might add are STILL recognizable even though weak translations exist.

                many regard the original king james as the "closest" exegesis of the original languages,  but even then there are no "english words"  that are a compartive to certain original language words / phrases.

                given that FACT,  even including a need to "ballpark"  words and phrases cannot make a guy like you anything more than a manufacturer of  excuses

                from the beginning,  God has never lost the battle that the bible can't be trusted,  and is only a book of "fairy tales".

                the prophecies preclude your intellectual lie.

                so at least you DID admit the bible is an "historical document".

                now you HAVE to lie that prophecies weren't 'prerecorded'

                go ahead and lie about it.    that's what makes YOU "untrustworthy"  in the trustworthy game we are playing.

                truth wins again

                *******************************************************************************************

                keep in mind,  not only did the prophet isaiah record this in history,  he did it some 700 years BEFORE Christ.

                keep in mind,  it still says the SAME THING it said when he first wrote it BACK THEN.

                don't believe me?  fine.   go to a synagogue and ask a jew to read it FOR YOU straight from the torah

                go ahead and read the whole context of what isaiah said,  so you can't make another excuse.

                btw,  without even realizing it,  one verse is a "3 fer"  deal.

                (1) they lashed his back with 39 stripes.

                (2) plucked the hair out of His beard

                (3) spit upon

                thanks for allowing me the opportunity to "teach"  tonight

                 

                "isaiah 50:6

                 6i gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: i hid not my face from shame and spitting".

                            "i am .........."meant to"       

                P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                         until further notice,  it's  france everyday


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                  Posted: August 21, 2010, 12:20 am - IP Logged

                  so then,  where are these "plagairistic"  individuals you "forgot"  to produce?    if these people were so significant in history,  we would know about "them".

                  funny how all these imaginary pretenders to the "faith"  are MIA,  and you CANNOT produce "them"

                  that's an intellectually rediculous excuse

                   

                  and the bible has NEVER lost it's original intent and form,  despite it's many "translations".   

                  that's another intellectually lame excuse.

                  i just demonstrated that thru the fulfillment of prophecy,  because no where in time did any aspect of the trustworthyness of what was entrusted knowledge wise ever get "ditched"  in the literary pile of human effort.

                  as if God "lost"  his mojo from a weakly translated word here or there.   that's  rediculously lame

                  get ahold of a copy of the torah........it has NEVER CHANGED,  and it contains the original starting gates of prophecy,   and those prophecies were fulfilled by Christ and recorded by eyewitnesses,  who i might add are STILL recognizable even though weak translations exist.

                  many regard the original king james as the "closest" exegesis of the original languages,  but even then there are no "english words"  that are a compartive to certain original language words / phrases.

                  given that FACT,  even including a need to "ballpark"  words and phrases cannot make a guy like you anything more than a manufacturer of  excuses

                  from the beginning,  God has never lost the battle that the bible can't be trusted,  and is only a book of "fairy tales".

                  the prophecies preclude your intellectual lie.

                  so at least you DID admit the bible is an "historical document".

                  now you HAVE to lie that prophecies weren't 'prerecorded'

                  go ahead and lie about it.    that's what makes YOU "untrustworthy"  in the trustworthy game we are playing.

                  truth wins again

                  *******************************************************************************************

                  keep in mind,  not only did the prophet isaiah record this in history,  he did it some 700 years BEFORE Christ.

                  keep in mind,  it still says the SAME THING it said when he first wrote it BACK THEN.

                  don't believe me?  fine.   go to a synagogue and ask a jew to read it FOR YOU straight from the torah

                  go ahead and read the whole context of what isaiah said,  so you can't make another excuse.

                  btw,  without even realizing it,  one verse is a "3 fer"  deal.

                  (1) they lashed his back with 39 stripes.

                  (2) plucked the hair out of His beard

                  (3) spit upon

                  thanks for allowing me the opportunity to "teach"  tonight

                   

                  "isaiah 50:6

                   6i gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: i hid not my face from shame and spitting".

                   

                  You see what I mean? You don't watch the videos. Watch this one and you'll have your answer about plagiarism.

                    visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                    Posted: August 21, 2010, 12:35 am - IP Logged

                    "notice how when someone asked,  i was at least willing to go the distance ?"

                    Willing?  You pushed until you became totally obnoxious.

                    Nobody cares if you "go the distance."  Nobody asked you to.  Not one person posted that they are thankful that you saved them from doing self-picks.  I have given you more than one opportunity to quietly depart and you are too dumb to accept. 

                    You coming here and DEMANDING people do workout tests between QPs and SPs.  "Prove your system" "8 years and no proof" - blah, blah, blah - 6,000 years - billions of years and no workouts proving one thing you say!  The junk you spit out makes a person want to give up on any religion - especially Christian.   Someone explains things to you and you stick your hands over your ears and go La La La La.  You and the way you twist things is a disgrace to the human species. 

                    You have a totally inflated arrogant belief in yourself, if you want to argue your "religious" beliefs, go to these places and see if you can convince them! 

                    http://www.ummah.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?10-General&s=f77ab5ad82996be003ea9af74d569434

                    http://forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?t=47110

                       

                    your just mad that you couldn't uphold your end of the SP vs QP debate,  once you opened your mouth about it.

                    you fell in the disrespectful category by self choice

                    i 'demanded proof'  because that's exactly what the thread was about .   ------->  proof.

                    you sure didn't provide any,  and i know you fiddle faddle a "system".

                    you didn't because you can't prove squat,  and you blame me for your inabilities?    that's an ongoing joke

                    true history isn't "junk",  and this time accurately replicated true history trumps your wishful thinking that i am "the bad guy"

                     

                    as far as your "forum suggestions".......i am not of the ilk that joker is,   where i go hunting down people who believe the opposite of what i do.

                    somebody brings 'trouble' to MY doorstep first ........i AM all about that when that happens

                    as you can now tell from personal experience.

                     

                    the board is still waiting for you to take joker to task for spraying the board with all his amalgamated mess.

                    so far,  you haven't said a word to him

                    i guess because you hold to the "truths"  joker holds to.......that's ok.  ROFL

                    what an integrity giant you are Thumbs Down

                                "i am .........."meant to"       

                    P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                             until further notice,  it's  france everyday

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                      dover delaware
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                      Posted: August 21, 2010, 12:42 am - IP Logged

                      hmmmmm    hate to say this  but there is no such person or being as a god  if there was there would be no deasth wars violence or anything bad going on my my  lesonook

                        visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                        Posted: August 21, 2010, 12:47 am - IP Logged

                         

                        You see what I mean? You don't watch the videos. Watch this one and you'll have your answer about plagiarism.

                        i will watch the whole thing tomorrow and give it's honest review tomorrow.

                         

                        in the meantime,  you can apologize for being a selfish human being for having dragged this thread away from it's original intent.

                         

                        you know,  because you started out of the gate in a 'respectful manner',   only asking 'a question'  Puke

                         

                        truecritic isn't man enough to take you to task for causing this ensuing mess...

                        ......SO I WILL

                         

                         i got to go to bed.    but before i fall asleep,  i will make sure i listen to what God might have to say to me about tomorrow.

                        you know,  i can do that,  because God is real and alive,  and He hears those who approach his presence with thanksgiving,  reverance and respect   with  anticipation that the relationship will GROW.

                        you don't hear from God not because He "isn't real".

                        it's because you drag Him thru the mud EVERYDAY.

                        currently,  your a relationship possibility killer

                        what a job description to possess

                                    "i am .........."meant to"       

                        P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                                 until further notice,  it's  france everyday


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                          Posted: August 21, 2010, 1:08 am - IP Logged

                          i will watch the whole thing tomorrow and give it's honest review tomorrow.

                           

                          in the meantime,  you can apologize for being a selfish human being for having dragged this thread away from it's original intent.

                           

                          you know,  because you started out of the gate in a 'respectful manner',   only asking 'a question'  Puke

                           

                          truecritic isn't man enough to take you to task for causing this ensuing mess...

                          ......SO I WILL

                           

                           i got to go to bed.    but before i fall asleep,  i will make sure i listen to what God might have to say to me about tomorrow.

                          you know,  i can do that,  because God is real and alive,  and He hears those who approach his presence with thanksgiving,  reverance and respect   with  anticipation that the relationship will GROW.

                          you don't hear from God not because He "isn't real".

                          it's because you drag Him thru the mud EVERYDAY.

                          currently,  your a relationship possibility killer

                          what a job description to possess

                          in the meantime,  you can apologize for being a selfish human being for having dragged this thread away from it's original intent.

                          OK, you got a deal. I appologize for my rash behaviour.

                           

                          currently,  your a relationship possibility killer

                          what a job description to possess

                          No I'm not. If indeed there is a God, he's ominpotent enough to realize the situation with me and handle me accordingly. He may even praise me for seeking what the truth is, as opposed to following the status quo.

                           

                          I hope there is a God. If there is one, then I have many many questions.


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                            Posted: August 21, 2010, 1:25 am - IP Logged

                            hmmmmm    hate to say this  but there is no such person or being as a god  if there was there would be no deasth wars violence or anything bad going on my my  lesonook

                            I try to stay open minded. If I said God didn't exist based on the scientific evidence I've aquired over the many years, I'd be just as bad as those who claim to have a monopoly on truth based on religion.......So what I say is that I don't know. I don't have a problem saying that. It's nothing to be ashamed of. I DON'T KNOW!

                            Hopefully God does exist, but if he does, I would have a field day asking him pertinent questions for 38 days straight.

                            But you're right at the end. Nothing bad should ever happen If a God was really watching over us. It's easy to be an armchair warrior and proclaim this and that. But at the end of the day, even I can think of a better way to deal with problem souls. Ones I won't go into right now because it's not the right place.

                            Endless wars for centuries and no intervention. Endless suffering beyond understanding and nothing....not even a wisper.

                            Corruption, bad economy, wars, and nothing....no sounds, opeining of the skies, nothing.....

                            How many centuries has this been going on with no divine intervention?

                            The better question is why even create an atmosphere that will ultimately lead to disaster in the first place....knowing well ahead of time the plan is doomed?.  God is omnipotent, so if the story is correct, he is outside space and time meaning he already knew, yet went with it anyways......


                              United States
                              Member #81843
                              October 31, 2009
                              856 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: August 21, 2010, 2:51 am - IP Logged

                              i go hunting down people who believe the opposite of what i do.”

                              Oh so it’s windmills you want? You are wrong, Dulcinea . The book needs no defense any more than how someone plays a game. What needs defending are personal beliefs like luck or that science cannot prove God, or that you are meant to win. Truths need no defense even if nobody adheres to them. Gravity is a truth, try to defy it!

                              The man of the five senses cannot know God or understand his word, His written revelation . God is not limited to the perceptions of the natural man; men of the five senses. Joker is right in his approach that the proof he requires cannot be validated because he is limited to his five senses and science. All science has rules and order with the exception of chaos that has been introduced. The chaos can be defined and outlined. The rules of order are subject to the Creator. The outline and description of chaos is subject to the one who transformed order into chaos (the one who coveted the creation). Man’s study of the natural world is an attempt to define the order of the design and apply it for his own means. The science is unfounded when the secret to why something happens or works cannot be clearly defined. Man’s science is limited to the physical universe. Natural man does not see the hand, only the handiwork. Observances of phenomena in the natural world cannot be defined by the laws of the natural world; there are two sources of phenomena and few know them or the difference it makes.

                              It makes perfect sense that someone cannot understand something that is not in the scope of their natural senses/perceptions. That includes a knowledge of good and of evil and the difference between the God of goodness and the god of evil. As I said before, the book needs no defense, especially to the natural man who demands proof of matters he cannot discern.

                              As for QP vs. PP, there is no need to defend yourself in how you play especially to one who goes “hunting down people who believe the opposite of what i do.” What a misguided and misaligned leg-humping self-gratifying à la côte freak. Stalin and Lenin had the same frame of mind. An inalienable right recognized by our founding fathers was the freedom to choose what you believe, not prosecute, oppress or discriminate with it. Visiondude, your principals are un-American.

                              Visiondude is all macho and not man enough to see he has no grounds to stand on demanding what he thinks he is meant to demand. He admits he is at terms with anyone who believes different than he does, that’s why he debates Argues because he cannot discuss: petit esprit.

                              DD

                              “Facts are the enemy of truth.” Don Quixote

                              PS “I don’t know” is an honest answer and IMHO of greater proof of personal integrity than most men have or boast of.

                                 
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