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Praying?

Topic closed. 421 replies. Last post 7 years ago by visiondude.

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tiggs95's avatar - Lottery-036.jpg

United States
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November 4, 2006
3930 Posts
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Posted: June 28, 2010, 1:57 pm - IP Logged

Tiggs? Bible? heh,heh,heh,heh,heh...

I know the area of Kentucky he lives in Rosie. Ain't none of them people got any books unless you count the Sears Catalog.

And they keep that in the outhouse fer practical purposes.

Funny thing though, they all seem to have trampolines. Morons love trampolines. Last time I drove through there, there was an army of morons jumping on trampolines.

Really something to see...

You drove through Ky and diden't tell tiggs..Smart move on your part ridge but another prayer not answered for the tigger..Lock and loaded at all times..

    tiggs95's avatar - Lottery-036.jpg

    United States
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    Posted: June 28, 2010, 1:58 pm - IP Logged

    You drove through Ky and diden't tell tiggs..Smart move on your part ridge but another prayer not answered for the tigger..Lock and loaded at all times..

    PS...Nap time..

      visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
      light on my feet
      United States
      Member #356
      May 20, 2002
      2744 Posts
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      Posted: June 28, 2010, 2:22 pm - IP Logged
      I was watching a show on the discovery channel or some show of that nature a while back and they had a Catholic priest, Rabbi, Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist, and Episcopalian ministers. All were talking about the bible and the teachings therein. By the time they show was ending i was never as confused as i am now once again.
       
      These doctrine theologians bounced back and fourth about what was written what was real and what was considered fallacy. In the hour or so of the show there is only so much ground they could cover. It was pretty civil in that there were no name calling or battling over the words in the bible.
       
      And it dawned on me when one of them said towards the end of the show that the bible was a great story book about God and Jesus and all the people in it, that the bible was a means by where people who read it can draw their own conclusions about what the words mean but by no means should they try and understand it because there is so much information overload in it.
       
      At some point they talked about the King James version and that when it was transcribed from the scriptures which were in many different languages that some of the wordings in the bible were misrepresented in that they actually were never able to decipher them so King James had written what he perceived them to be.
       
      Since then there have been many scholars who are trying to correct this but it remains doubtful if any bible will be more popular than the King James version.

      as if God is "unable" to differentiate Himself, and who He is,  over the "debates" of men.

        like men are capable of dismissing God,  just because they are afraid of being "narrow" about who He is.

      the task of that is simple,  with the summation of who God is, being based on what God has proven, or said about Himself.

      not mixing words, the "lost in translation / king james" arguement as the "ultimate reason" for not comig to a conclusion about God,  is akin to an intellectually dishonest joke.

      take a man who doesn't want to know, whose every push in a debate is to dismiss God, rather than look to qualify Him as real, you will come up with these intellectually rediculous excuses.

      who cares if any language the bible was translated into wasn't "100% accurate", if there is a God, God is not going to allow himself to be dismissed off the pages of history over a few grammatical errors here or there.  that's comletely ludicrous, and is just an accuse so that a person can tell themselves....."see there, i don't have to"

      the real truth about God then becomes ......there will ALWAYS be enough "accuracy",  to insure Gods words ("if" He made them in the 1st place).

      God is a person.  He is not some hyperbole - mythical figure written about in some austere book of wishful thinking in History, He's a person.  and armed with those facts - that He is a person,  and that He is God,  two things become very clear, and very narrow in a debate on who He is...

      (1) did He do something in History that showed that He was alive, that gave Him that "voice" to His creation where He could state, this is who I am,  and this is what my standards are?    and the answer to that is emphatically yes, and it's fully provable.

      (2)  if the answer to #1 is true,  then no amount of jocular angling will ever proove that to ........."not be true"

      really, it's up to God to prove Himself to be real.  intially speaking,  it never was up to us.  but, if He has,  THEN it is up to us to adjust to whatever it is,  that He has spoken about Himself - and adjust to that.

      and wammo - there comes the sticking point of the qualification,  because that's where men pull up short, they really don't want to place themselves under the authority of God.

      when it gets down to it,  it's ALWAYS an "authority issue".

      it never has been,  nor ever will be,  a matter of God not being able to proove Himself. that's an intellectual joke.

      if i ever get the chance in a one-on-one challenge, where someone challenges me about "God not being real"......i ALWAYS point them to repeatable proven pre-recorded history, and the "collectiveness"  cohesion of that History, backed by a living person.  i never leave anything to an open ended unprovable "maybe".

      i can prove that God left His stamp on this world to anyone,  just as i attempted to with joker,  who promptly left the room once he sensed i might actually be able to do it.  why?  because he doesn't want to know,  not because there isn't any "proof". 

      if a person doesn't know,  only because they don't want to know.

      God doesn't disappear into objectiveland because of mans blunders, or success's.   that's an excuse.

      pick the qualifying process....mathematics....science....history....archaeology.......pre-recorded events.......cohesiveness, etc.....it doesn't matter.   all i have to do is repeat what God has already done, then it is up to you as to whether or not you will bow to His authority over your life,  so that you can experience the person part of that equation.

      "they will find me, and know me,  when they search for me with ALL their heart"

      cults, opinions, denominations "happen",  when a man ditches a portion of Gods authority over their life,  that they disagree with.  they then set about creating their "custom" versions of God to match their proclivities.

      that explains DD.   DD decides he doesn't like the fact that God doesn't automatically heal people everytime,  so he jumps on the prosperity wagon, "thinking" he can alter pre-written history to suit his "custom needs"

      DD is a "history alter----->er".  nothing more.  and nothing less.

      ditching the Deity of Christ is the ultimate "weapon" in the arsenal of would be authority-ditchers, because afterall,  if you can ditch that,  the sky's the limit to what you can "white -out" in Gods word, and filll in with your own wishful thinking.

      DD is better than most,  but "better than most" just means he is a professional at manufacturing error.

      big whoop

                  "i am .........."meant to"       

      P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

               until further notice,  it's  france everyday

        visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
        light on my feet
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        May 20, 2002
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        Posted: June 28, 2010, 2:31 pm - IP Logged

        DD

        I am a joint heir with Jesus Christ, and glorified by God as he glorifies His Son. By your thinking, I am fully man and fully God.

        DD

        You can have my bible when I am gone and all my research books. But first you will have to get past the looting hoards who want my stashed beer.

        DD

         see, I am three-in one-post! I don't fully understand that, but I don't feel bad at all. The trinity is confusion at it's best: every evil work

        now we are getting to lift the veil more.

        go ahead DD,  tell them your cultic thinking tells you YOU are a "little god" right now. 

        they probably won't mind.

        notice how DD hasn't run to distance himself from that accurate accusation?

        i wonder why?

         

        work me now DD.  back later

        what's tells all that needs to be told about you,  is that you STILL have not provided REAL LIFE provable examples.

        your "lies" are based in wishful thinking - not in provable life historical situations, past or present.

        until you can prove that,  you have squat

                    "i am .........."meant to"       

        P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                 until further notice,  it's  france everyday

          four4me's avatar - gate1
          MD
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          June 18, 2003
          8393 Posts
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          Posted: June 28, 2010, 3:22 pm - IP Logged

          as if God is "unable" to differentiate Himself, and who He is,  over the "debates" of men.

            like men are capable of dismissing God,  just because they are afraid of being "narrow" about who He is.

          the task of that is simple,  with the summation of who God is, being based on what God has proven, or said about Himself.

          not mixing words, the "lost in translation / king james" arguement as the "ultimate reason" for not comig to a conclusion about God,  is akin to an intellectually dishonest joke.

          take a man who doesn't want to know, whose every push in a debate is to dismiss God, rather than look to qualify Him as real, you will come up with these intellectually rediculous excuses.

          who cares if any language the bible was translated into wasn't "100% accurate", if there is a God, God is not going to allow himself to be dismissed off the pages of history over a few grammatical errors here or there.  that's comletely ludicrous, and is just an accuse so that a person can tell themselves....."see there, i don't have to"

          the real truth about God then becomes ......there will ALWAYS be enough "accuracy",  to insure Gods words ("if" He made them in the 1st place).

          God is a person.  He is not some hyperbole - mythical figure written about in some austere book of wishful thinking in History, He's a person.  and armed with those facts - that He is a person,  and that He is God,  two things become very clear, and very narrow in a debate on who He is...

          (1) did He do something in History that showed that He was alive, that gave Him that "voice" to His creation where He could state, this is who I am,  and this is what my standards are?    and the answer to that is emphatically yes, and it's fully provable.

          (2)  if the answer to #1 is true,  then no amount of jocular angling will ever proove that to ........."not be true"

          really, it's up to God to prove Himself to be real.  intially speaking,  it never was up to us.  but, if He has,  THEN it is up to us to adjust to whatever it is,  that He has spoken about Himself - and adjust to that.

          and wammo - there comes the sticking point of the qualification,  because that's where men pull up short, they really don't want to place themselves under the authority of God.

          when it gets down to it,  it's ALWAYS an "authority issue".

          it never has been,  nor ever will be,  a matter of God not being able to proove Himself. that's an intellectual joke.

          if i ever get the chance in a one-on-one challenge, where someone challenges me about "God not being real"......i ALWAYS point them to repeatable proven pre-recorded history, and the "collectiveness"  cohesion of that History, backed by a living person.  i never leave anything to an open ended unprovable "maybe".

          i can prove that God left His stamp on this world to anyone,  just as i attempted to with joker,  who promptly left the room once he sensed i might actually be able to do it.  why?  because he doesn't want to know,  not because there isn't any "proof". 

          if a person doesn't know,  only because they don't want to know.

          God doesn't disappear into objectiveland because of mans blunders, or success's.   that's an excuse.

          pick the qualifying process....mathematics....science....history....archaeology.......pre-recorded events.......cohesiveness, etc.....it doesn't matter.   all i have to do is repeat what God has already done, then it is up to you as to whether or not you will bow to His authority over your life,  so that you can experience the person part of that equation.

          "they will find me, and know me,  when they search for me with ALL their heart"

          cults, opinions, denominations "happen",  when a man ditches a portion of Gods authority over their life,  that they disagree with.  they then set about creating their "custom" versions of God to match their proclivities.

          that explains DD.   DD decides he doesn't like the fact that God doesn't automatically heal people everytime,  so he jumps on the prosperity wagon, "thinking" he can alter pre-written history to suit his "custom needs"

          DD is a "history alter----->er".  nothing more.  and nothing less.

          ditching the Deity of Christ is the ultimate "weapon" in the arsenal of would be authority-ditchers, because afterall,  if you can ditch that,  the sky's the limit to what you can "white -out" in Gods word, and filll in with your own wishful thinking.

          DD is better than most,  but "better than most" just means he is a professional at manufacturing error.

          big whoop

          Visiondude ... You born again Christians are all alike just about, especially the ones who read the bible, memorize the versus and go to bible study and then preach the doctrine. Come down off your high horse stop looking through people as if they weren't there. I was born and raised a catholic don't think for one moment that the bible and the churches beliefs weren't drummed into me. To the point of being brainwashed into believing all this stuff.  I have done battle with born again Christians since i can remember you already know my wife is born again. She too thinks she has an answer for everything in life based on biblical terms or happenings. It don't wash with me one bit. 
           
          When I talked about the show with the elder clergymen that debated the same questions we all have.
           
          Turn water into wine.... ------ Yea in about 3 days maybe ....
          Make man blind man see...--- Yea wipe the crud out of his eyes.
          Conceive through emasculate conception.---- Artificial insemination.
          Rise again from the dead. ------ Beam me up Scotty.
           
          Every one of Jesus miracles have been debated to death by people more learned than you me or anyone else. None have ever been proven......... it is by faith alone in Jesus/God that we believe it took place. Faith is the tool and blessing that binds us together. That keeps the doctrine alive and keeps the flock together.
            Avatar
            New York,
            Panama
            Member #73078
            April 4, 2009
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            Posted: June 28, 2010, 5:23 pm - IP Logged

            "DD...are you soooo sure, is there Perhaps a slight possibility that you could be wrong is it at all possible???... I am asking! We are Human and we are fallible!"

            No I am not sure my ‘fallibility’ is the reason for error. Why? God’s Word is perfect as are the words that comprise the whole. He would be fallible if He were as you say, “fully man and fully God”. He (GOD) is not imperfect. He (God) cannot be TEMPTED.

            Think about it Rosie, why should I attribute my human fragilities to God in saying He is human and capable of being a screw-up? You can’t have your cake on that and eat it too. If God is not perfect, His Son could not have been the perfect sacrifice to buy you back from the god of this world, under who's dominion you were born.

            You want to say Jesus is God. You say He (God) raised himself when the book only says God raised Jesus Christ? The book nowhere says in black and white in any text Jesus Christ is God. Jesus was questioned if he did in fact say he was the Son of God and said yes. Why can’t you read that verse? Because your eyes are blinded. Go ahead and have you game and God-Man-God. I am instructed not to cast my pearls before swine. Time and again it is clear Jesus Christ is Not God. God is not a man that he should lie. Ever think about that one and the “fully man-yet fully God” fallacy? That is in the book “God is not a Man” look it up. God says he cannot lie. So who is doing the lying? God? NO!   Another god is telling the lies and wishes to harm those who might just get enough real bible in their ears to get SONship.

            It’s like this Rosie, When Jesus Christ walked this earth he could only be at one place at one time. Now since Pentecost anyone confessing Jesus as their Lord AND believes GOD raised him from the dead (ROMANS 10:9 & 10) ,….. wait ,…. Who said who raised Jesus? Himself? NO!! a thousand times NO! God said HE did the raising of His Son.                          Back on point, everyone who believes gets holy spirit and that is SONship. It is Christ in YOU. Now there are millions of people with Christ in them out there with the potential to do the same works defeating the adversary as Christ did- and greater works! Among the greater works is bringing someone to the new birth. Jesus could not do that because it was not available yet. The comforter is the gift of holy spirit you get when you confess and believe Romans 10:9 & 10. John 3:16 is a good verse but misses the mark for SONship because there is no mention about God raising His SON! Say Jesus rose himself and it is a big fat lie! No cigar. No new birth. No holy spirit IN you. And the Holy Spirit is not another entity in some kind of tri-une god. God is Spirit John 4:24. Do yo get that? He is Holy. Get that? He is HOLY SPIRIT. HIS GIFT to you when you Believe for SONship is the image of God, what Adam lost and that is holy spirit. Does that make you GOD? NO. It makes you a Son of God. SONship! Adam to Jesus Christ (men of God) had spirit UPON them on a condition: Obedience! Even Jesus! Now it says that the spirit of God that was in Christ is in you. Colossians 1:27. Get that? God was in Christ reconciling (WHO?) HIMSELF (GOD) unto the world. Now the gift, the comforter is holy spirit, your own holy spirit and it is also Christ in YOU. GOD in CHRIST in YOU. You are now amember of the body of Christ and the head is Christ and the head of Christ is GOD. One God Rosie. not three. Three Gods is worship misdirection and is no deal. God says how many Gods you can have before Him? How many did He say Rosie? Do you relly want to think he is a man that is fallable based on something that cannot be easily explained and should be taken on blind faith? Not in my book! God did not die. His son gave his life, and died to legaly buy you back from the hopeless nature you were born with, estranged from GOD as Adam died and under the DOMINION of the Adversary, the god of this world.

            DD 

             sorry tiggs

            DD, Thanks....For on that day we will have ran out of chances to get it right!!! They will be no UUpss!!

            ..and I have a deep fear of ALMIGHTY GOD, Mathew 24:4 And JESUS answered and said unto them  Take care that no man deceive you 5: For many shall come in My name saying I AM Christan Shall deceive Many!!! again

            Matthew 24:11 And Many false prophets shall rise and shall deceive many.

            Matthew25:31 When the Son of Man shall come in HIS GLORY and all the Holy angels with HIM, then Shall HE SIT Upon THE THRONE OF HIS GLORY and before HIM shall be gathered All Nations: and HE shall separate them one from another as a Shepherd divides his sheep from the Goats 33: And HE shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. Then shall THE KING say unto them on HIS right hand come ye Blessed of My father, Inherit the Kingdo9m prepared for you from the foundation of the world  

            DD, this sounds like some one with GREAT POWER AND AUTHORITY Not a mere MAN...Sounds LIKE DEITY to me....... How can HE offer Kindomship If he is not in authority to do so!!

            DD; I am not,  and do not, do not, Do NOT want to hear this from HIM......

            Mathew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day Lord...Lord have we not prophesied in thy name, and in thy name cast out Devils and in thy name done many wonderful Works?!! (and this is the dreadful reply)  Mathew 7:23 Then I will tell them Plainly  I never knew you depart from me you that work Lawlessness...

            DD this is a sentence to eternal <snip>ation.....

            This post has been automatically changed by the Lottery Post computer system to remove inappropriate content and/or spam.

            forget what "they" say about youWhat you say about you?...

            Now, does it count??

             

             

            *Jr$ina

              visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
              light on my feet
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              May 20, 2002
              2744 Posts
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              Posted: June 28, 2010, 9:01 pm - IP Logged

              DD

              I am a joint heir with Jesus Christ, and glorified by God as he glorifies His Son. By your thinking, I am fully man and fully God.

              DD

              You can have my bible when I am gone and all my research books. But first you will have to get past the looting hoards who want my stashed beer.

              DD

               see, I am three-in one-post! I don't fully understand that, but I don't feel bad at all. The trinity is confusion at it's best: every evil work

              DD.......ahhh no, "we" (as in the reading audience) would like your research books now.

              i for one, cannot possibly wait till you tell us all what other "sources" back up your beliefs.

              seems if your beliefs are legit, and especially if they mirror Gods,  you would be thanking me for the opportunity to pass that info along,  so that you can "enlighten" others,  and you can further your qualification credentials.

              so let's see your list of "books" you go to for the parallel universal truth of your beliefs.

              the truth is - you won't reveal what they are,  because what you believe as a whole can't ever stand up to scrutiny,  so you do what cults are famous for ......pumping out what i call "partial ballpark truths".

              truths that mimic biblical truths,  just enough to fly under the radar of most people (most people" ,  being the operative word),  but "in the ballpark" in the attempt to pass it off as "legit".   same deal as the "fake rolex watch" 

              we will file this under the continuous behavior of someone who is attempting to sell something, but cannot qualify those claims.

              or,  you CAN do what ever logical thinking person uses to come to terms with what's real,  vs what's "wishful thinking",  and that is to demonstrate BIBLICALLY where what you sell, the MAJORITY of biblical characters have enjoyed CONSISTENTLY throughout scripture.   and,  in real time.......what real people enjoy NOW as a result of that lie.

              i stated accurately........that people aren't getting "healed" anywhere near the numbers your lying prosperity "doctrine" claims is true.   if that doctrine were true.......MILLIONS of people would be getting healed, by the virtue of that many Christians there are in the world.    you could slice that down to 10% basing it on the "unbelief" factor, and you would still lose that arguement based soley on REAL LIFE statistics.  ----->   it's a lie.  PERIOD

              none of this rediculous attempt at validation by hitting key words your cult runs to, and posting a zillion "scriptures", because that proves nothing.  Gods word doesn't teach that in the WHOLE of scripture.  Gods word teaches interdependantcy on Him, no matter what He decides.

              you won't do it, because man-to-man,  you are afraid, because you realize you can't qualify it that way,  so my next logical - progression question for you should be.....

              when are you going to pen your OWN  "scriptures" ????

              like the mormons and jehova witnesses did when they met resistence about their "beliefs"?

              they just flat out changed the book entirely, and so are you

                          "i am .........."meant to"       

              P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                       until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                light on my feet
                United States
                Member #356
                May 20, 2002
                2744 Posts
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                Posted: June 28, 2010, 9:45 pm - IP Logged
                Visiondude ... You born again Christians are all alike just about, especially the ones who read the bible, memorize the versus and go to bible study and then preach the doctrine. Come down off your high horse stop looking through people as if they weren't there. I was born and raised a catholic don't think for one moment that the bible and the churches beliefs weren't drummed into me. To the point of being brainwashed into believing all this stuff.  I have done battle with born again Christians since i can remember you already know my wife is born again. She too thinks she has an answer for everything in life based on biblical terms or happenings. It don't wash with me one bit. 
                 
                When I talked about the show with the elder clergymen that debated the same questions we all have.
                 
                Turn water into wine.... ------ Yea in about 3 days maybe ....
                Make man blind man see...--- Yea wipe the crud out of his eyes.
                Conceive through emasculate conception.---- Artificial insemination.
                Rise again from the dead. ------ Beam me up Scotty.
                 
                Every one of Jesus miracles have been debated to death by people more learned than you me or anyone else. None have ever been proven......... it is by faith alone in Jesus/God that we believe it took place. Faith is the tool and blessing that binds us together. That keeps the doctrine alive and keeps the flock together.

                i know it "doesn't wash with you",  john.......because you are the type of person i was referring to when i made an accurate unbiased historical statement that God is "provable", based on facts.  (what was written, vs what has happened since what was written)

                it isn't anywhere near relegated to an "issue of faith",  because then it becomes completely subjective to mans opinions and emotions, and NO ONE can proove God exists when there is a gazillion emotions and opinions flying around the room.

                you base Gods existence on FACTS........and there are P.L.E.N.T.Y.

                to prove my point,  you came after me, instead of DD's rediculous assertions about God,  that i know for a fact you vehetmetly disagree with, not because i commented off of something you said,  but because i became "narrow", and stated that a man could know, only IF they really wanted to, and THATS what strikes a cord within you.

                our past between us has never changed.  you didn't like what i said,  because what i say challenges your decision making about God,  because it takes away your ability to "reason it away" based on an opinion, and makes a person choose whether or not it's really real.   that's what i do, i challenge people that they can know for sure, and that's why i have "fans" like you

                you know the truth about you john, is that you are not challenging me to "prove it", as a person naturally would who was interested.  instead,  your push is for silence.  that says alot about what you think about the subject matter. 

                if i am searching for God, and i "think" some person is on to something tangible, i am going to do everything i can to cull info out of that opportunity,  so that i can qualify God, not excuse Him away.  ask yourself,  what is your 1st move?

                i don't mind if you want to live your whole life out claiming "no one knows for sure",  that's your deal, and i respect that. 

                but for me,  my life is about telling those who really are interested,  that there IS proof,  real relatable provable historical proof,  and that God hasn't left it up to mans "emotions and opinions",  because that's a lie

                and no, i am not going to water down what i say to tailor it to someones "sensitivities".  you should know that by now...

                VISIONitellsitjustlikeitssupposedtobeDUDE

                john,  did you ever even bother to ask Christ if He really IS "real"?   or are you just afraid of the answer?

                            "i am .........."meant to"       

                P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                         until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                  visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
                  light on my feet
                  United States
                  Member #356
                  May 20, 2002
                  2744 Posts
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                  Posted: June 28, 2010, 10:46 pm - IP Logged

                  "DD...are you soooo sure, is there Perhaps a slight possibility that you could be wrong is it at all possible???... I am asking! We are Human and we are fallible!"

                  No I am not sure my ‘fallibility’ is the reason for error. Why? God’s Word is perfect as are the words that comprise the whole. He would be fallible if He were as you say, “fully man and fully God”. He (GOD) is not imperfect. He (God) cannot be TEMPTED.

                  Think about it Rosie, why should I attribute my human fragilities to God in saying He is human and capable of being a screw-up? You can’t have your cake on that and eat it too. If God is not perfect, His Son could not have been the perfect sacrifice to buy you back from the god of this world, under who's dominion you were born.

                  You want to say Jesus is God. You say He (God) raised himself when the book only says God raised Jesus Christ? The book nowhere says in black and white in any text Jesus Christ is God. Jesus was questioned if he did in fact say he was the Son of God and said yes. Why can’t you read that verse? Because your eyes are blinded. Go ahead and have you game and God-Man-God. I am instructed not to cast my pearls before swine. Time and again it is clear Jesus Christ is Not God. God is not a man that he should lie. Ever think about that one and the “fully man-yet fully God” fallacy? That is in the book “God is not a Man” look it up. God says he cannot lie. So who is doing the lying? God? NO!   Another god is telling the lies and wishes to harm those who might just get enough real bible in their ears to get SONship.

                  It’s like this Rosie, When Jesus Christ walked this earth he could only be at one place at one time. Now since Pentecost anyone confessing Jesus as their Lord AND believes GOD raised him from the dead (ROMANS 10:9 & 10) ,….. wait ,…. Who said who raised Jesus? Himself? NO!! a thousand times NO! God said HE did the raising of His Son.                          Back on point, everyone who believes gets holy spirit and that is SONship. It is Christ in YOU. Now there are millions of people with Christ in them out there with the potential to do the same works defeating the adversary as Christ did- and greater works! Among the greater works is bringing someone to the new birth. Jesus could not do that because it was not available yet. The comforter is the gift of holy spirit you get when you confess and believe Romans 10:9 & 10. John 3:16 is a good verse but misses the mark for SONship because there is no mention about God raising His SON! Say Jesus rose himself and it is a big fat lie! No cigar. No new birth. No holy spirit IN you. And the Holy Spirit is not another entity in some kind of tri-une god. God is Spirit John 4:24. Do yo get that? He is Holy. Get that? He is HOLY SPIRIT. HIS GIFT to you when you Believe for SONship is the image of God, what Adam lost and that is holy spirit. Does that make you GOD? NO. It makes you a Son of God. SONship! Adam to Jesus Christ (men of God) had spirit UPON them on a condition: Obedience! Even Jesus! Now it says that the spirit of God that was in Christ is in you. Colossians 1:27. Get that? God was in Christ reconciling (WHO?) HIMSELF (GOD) unto the world. Now the gift, the comforter is holy spirit, your own holy spirit and it is also Christ in YOU. GOD in CHRIST in YOU. You are now amember of the body of Christ and the head is Christ and the head of Christ is GOD. One God Rosie. not three. Three Gods is worship misdirection and is no deal. God says how many Gods you can have before Him? How many did He say Rosie? Do you relly want to think he is a man that is fallable based on something that cannot be easily explained and should be taken on blind faith? Not in my book! God did not die. His son gave his life, and died to legaly buy you back from the hopeless nature you were born with, estranged from GOD as Adam died and under the DOMINION of the Adversary, the god of this world.

                  DD 

                   sorry tiggs

                   once again,  you weren't "truthful" when you said Jesus "never said He raised Himself from the dead, because you know He did.    remember,  if you have to purposefully lie about something, in order to change it into something you want it to be,  you don't have a viable premise.   unfortunately for you,  the bible repeats the same premise,  starting in genesis.

                  and no,  there isn't "3 Gods".     if there were "3 Gods",  then you assertion against the Trinity "might" have some teeth. 

                  1 God, in 3 persons.   no big whoop that God manifested Himself at different places in History,  in 3 different forms

                  back to your blatant lie that "Jesus never said that".........

                  john chapter 2.  verses......

                   18Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

                   19Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

                   20Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

                   21But he spake of the temple of his body.

                   22When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

                  sorry DD,  pre-recorded (before the cult of prosperity existed) history tells US .........you are in error (at the very minimum). 

                  and DD,  make sure from now on you replicate the debate about the term "Son of God" accurately,  because you continue to stretch armstrong that one into your cult submission.

                  there was only ONE......"Son of God" (singular),  and that was Jesus Christ.

                  we are referred to as "sons of God" ( Plural)

                  you purposefully lump those 2 very different terms together, in an effort to make us "equal" with Jesus Christ, as if Jesus Christ only possessed "humanity",  instead Deity AND humanity.

                  the truth is,  Jesus Christ possed more God-like attributes than any man in history,  and isn't anywhere near on the same level playing field if one was to measure a man like that against God vs humanity.

                  come to think of it,  i got sidetracked,  and forgot to keep you on the honest trail,  by you explaining how Jesus is SOOOOOO revered by God,  including God bestowing on Him attributes that mimic His (like Worship),  and yet He is still "only a man".

                  either way,  you can still spit out cult-speak, the facts are,  that ...

                  (a)  Christ said He raised Himself

                  (B) Christ received ,  courted and never squashed.........Worship

                  the Worship of Jesus Christ totally disinegrates every cults wishful thinking in history......including yours

                              "i am .........."meant to"       

                  P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                           until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                    visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                    Posted: June 28, 2010, 11:21 pm - IP Logged

                    uh oh.  bad news DD.  i was right...

                    according to the "gospel" of wikipedia,  the proseprity gospel (just exactly like you sell it)  didn't even appear on the world's stage until around world war 2,   where our ever trustful friend oral roberts decided to turn God into his personal ATM machine.

                    see,  i can replicate history.  actual recorded history.   varifiable recorded events, that replicate a claim accurately,  as "when and if" something really happened.

                    the truth is DD, your health and wealth "doctrine" hasn't even been around in all the time that Gods word has been around.

                    know why?

                    because you can't demonstrate one group of people in the entirety of the history of this planet where even the "health" portion of that was ever true.

                    and you certainly can't even today

                    what an intellectual joke,  that even a fly by the seat of someones pants avenue like wikipedia, would provide enough "truth" to completely dissolve all your claims about the prosperity doctrine "guaranteeing" it's your'e "devine right" to be healed.

                    since healing is a biblical rights, and biblical rights are relagated solely to EACH individual, and is never incumbent on anothers "unbelief" as a means of which to verify whether "it" works, or not........maybe you can explain to all the parents on these boards who have children that have medical issues,  and their CHILD......."suffers from unbelief".

                    born that way,  as a matter of fact.

                    downs syndrome, etc.    must be a result of "unbelief" in the womb,  i guess.  who knew.

                    your cult teaching makes NO SENSE.    on a spiritual level,  and even according to wikipedia,  you have lost it to your cult.

                                "i am .........."meant to"       

                    P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                             until further notice,  it's  france everyday


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                      Posted: June 28, 2010, 11:48 pm - IP Logged

                      i know it "doesn't wash with you",  john.......because you are the type of person i was referring to when i made an accurate unbiased historical statement that God is "provable", based on facts.  (what was written, vs what has happened since what was written)

                      it isn't anywhere near relegated to an "issue of faith",  because then it becomes completely subjective to mans opinions and emotions, and NO ONE can proove God exists when there is a gazillion emotions and opinions flying around the room.

                      you base Gods existence on FACTS........and there are P.L.E.N.T.Y.

                      to prove my point,  you came after me, instead of DD's rediculous assertions about God,  that i know for a fact you vehetmetly disagree with, not because i commented off of something you said,  but because i became "narrow", and stated that a man could know, only IF they really wanted to, and THATS what strikes a cord within you.

                      our past between us has never changed.  you didn't like what i said,  because what i say challenges your decision making about God,  because it takes away your ability to "reason it away" based on an opinion, and makes a person choose whether or not it's really real.   that's what i do, i challenge people that they can know for sure, and that's why i have "fans" like you

                      you know the truth about you john, is that you are not challenging me to "prove it", as a person naturally would who was interested.  instead,  your push is for silence.  that says alot about what you think about the subject matter. 

                      if i am searching for God, and i "think" some person is on to something tangible, i am going to do everything i can to cull info out of that opportunity,  so that i can qualify God, not excuse Him away.  ask yourself,  what is your 1st move?

                      i don't mind if you want to live your whole life out claiming "no one knows for sure",  that's your deal, and i respect that. 

                      but for me,  my life is about telling those who really are interested,  that there IS proof,  real relatable provable historical proof,  and that God hasn't left it up to mans "emotions and opinions",  because that's a lie

                      and no, i am not going to water down what i say to tailor it to someones "sensitivities".  you should know that by now...

                      VISIONitellsitjustlikeitssupposedtobeDUDE

                      john,  did you ever even bother to ask Christ if He really IS "real"?   or are you just afraid of the answer?

                      if i am searching for God, and i "think" some person is on to something tangible, i am going to do everything i can to cull info out of that opportunity,  so that i can qualify God, not excuse Him away. 

                      And that's where the root of your problem is. You just admitted it in your quote above. Why would anyone in their right mind debate you, when you just publicly admitted that you will purposely distort "Tangible" evidence, in order for it, to shape your beliefs. If tomorrow, Joe Schmo has the most Earth shattering proof that you were wong, and 99% of the world would agree that Joe's proof was undeniable, you still wouldn't believe....So sad...

                      That is the reason I stopped writing back to you until now, and will continue to not write after this post, unless I catch you unknowingly confessing again... 

                      Why ANYONE would debate you with the stipulation that you will  purposely "Qualify", (which is just a nice term for "Twist the proof"), is beyond me....

                      What's the point?

                       

                        four4me's avatar - gate1
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                        Posted: June 29, 2010, 12:35 am - IP Logged
                        My name is not John no need to put my real name on here. Will you admit to being Pentecostal. I admitted to being Catholic. My wife is Pentecostal. It doesn't wash with me because Pentecostals think they are the chosen ones. The are pushy almost to the point of being embattled never wavering to any one else's beliefs because they think  the word of god belongs to them. 
                         
                        I'm not going after anybody I posted a post to the board you replied to those posts several times and i replied back in kind. I don't agree with anyone about religion except the Catholic's. But i am willing to listen to the different religious groups discuss what they perceive to be the truth and the true God.
                         
                        What's never going to change is i don't think people should discuss god or politics on a forum that isn't about the subject matter there are hundreds of forums for religion and politics and just like you don't mix bars and alcohol with politics or religion because it can lead to bad blood between the persons involved. Religion has it's place and i think a site about lottery and gambling in general shouldn't have posts about religion or politics.
                         
                        All the banter between you, me, And DD is thread drift it has nothing to do with the topicPraying
                         
                         Do you believe in praying?.
                        Moreover the implied intent was  Do you believe in praying for a lottery win.
                         
                         Otherwise it should have been a blog topic.
                         
                        I gonna put this a plane and as simple as I can when you die if you have a good spirit and soul then your spirit will dwell with the other good spirits, if you have a bad spirit your spirit will dwell with other bad spirits, If you die and your spirit is indifferent then your spirit will dwell with other indifferent spirits. Some people call it heaven, hell, and purgatory. 
                         
                        But since Jesus died on the cross for all mans sins shouldn't we all be going to heaven.
                         
                        And i wrote this offline before Joker posted what he did.
                          visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                          Posted: June 29, 2010, 2:23 am - IP Logged

                          if i am searching for God, and i "think" some person is on to something tangible, i am going to do everything i can to cull info out of that opportunity,  so that i can qualify God, not excuse Him away. 

                          And that's where the root of your problem is. You just admitted it in your quote above. Why would anyone in their right mind debate you, when you just publicly admitted that you will purposely distort "Tangible" evidence, in order for it, to shape your beliefs. If tomorrow, Joe Schmo has the most Earth shattering proof that you were wong, and 99% of the world would agree that Joe's proof was undeniable, you still wouldn't believe....So sad...

                          That is the reason I stopped writing back to you until now, and will continue to not write after this post, unless I catch you unknowingly confessing again... 

                          Why ANYONE would debate you with the stipulation that you will  purposely "Qualify", (which is just a nice term for "Twist the proof"), is beyond me....

                          What's the point?

                           

                          not sure what to make of this post. 

                          should i call you on some lack of reading / comprehension skills?

                          or should i call you on knowing what you read, understanding it,  then purposefully twisting what i wrote to mean something 180degree's different than what you stated i "meant"?

                          tell you what, i am a reasonable guy, and i will spot you the odd chance that your anger about this situation sent you into auto-tainted mode, before you even read it.

                          read it again joker,  the sentence i wrote above,  that you quoted me on, was written in the 3rd person as a hypothetical.

                          i hope for your sake,  for your own personality "credibility", that you don't have to resort to lying about WHAT a person says,  by purposefully twisting their words,  in order to hope that you can "discredit them".

                          you may read it again, but you certainly won't come back in here and apologize to me for twisting what i said,  and that fact alone will speak volumnes about who you are.

                          and no,  i am not surprised that you would stick your head back in the door,  throw your .01 at the crowd,  then use another excuse to crawl away back out the door.

                          seen it a ton of times.    i call it "intellectual hit and run 101"

                                      "i am .........."meant to"       

                          P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                                   until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                            visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                            Posted: June 29, 2010, 3:15 am - IP Logged
                            My name is not John no need to put my real name on here. Will you admit to being Pentecostal. I admitted to being Catholic. My wife is Pentecostal. It doesn't wash with me because Pentecostals think they are the chosen ones. The are pushy almost to the point of being embattled never wavering to any one else's beliefs because they think  the word of god belongs to them. 
                             
                            I'm not going after anybody I posted a post to the board you replied to those posts several times and i replied back in kind. I don't agree with anyone about religion except the Catholic's. But i am willing to listen to the different religious groups discuss what they perceive to be the truth and the true God.
                             
                            What's never going to change is i don't think people should discuss god or politics on a forum that isn't about the subject matter there are hundreds of forums for religion and politics and just like you don't mix bars and alcohol with politics or religion because it can lead to bad blood between the persons involved. Religion has it's place and i think a site about lottery and gambling in general shouldn't have posts about religion or politics.
                             
                            All the banter between you, me, And DD is thread drift it has nothing to do with the topicPraying
                             
                             Do you believe in praying?.
                            Moreover the implied intent was  Do you believe in praying for a lottery win.
                             
                             Otherwise it should have been a blog topic.
                             
                            I gonna put this a plane and as simple as I can when you die if you have a good spirit and soul then your spirit will dwell with the other good spirits, if you have a bad spirit your spirit will dwell with other bad spirits, If you die and your spirit is indifferent then your spirit will dwell with other indifferent spirits. Some people call it heaven, hell, and purgatory. 
                             
                            But since Jesus died on the cross for all mans sins shouldn't we all be going to heaven.
                             
                            And i wrote this offline before Joker posted what he did.

                              if i am going to put out a "label" that gives you a better barometer of what my beliefs align with, it would be "non denominational",  because i don't align myself with any church / denomination, because no organization will be standing behind me for support on the day i stand before God.  i work hard at differentiating myself from that mindset.

                            but no, not "pentecostal".   too emotionally based and driven for me in particular.  i love "emotion",  but not the kind where you place emotions above facts.  facts first,  then emotions if they are a result of those facts. 

                            ***********************************************************************************************

                            you dont think people should discuss God or politics on a forum like this,  yet you regularly engage in it when it does happen?    what kind of statement is that, other than one aimed at an attempt to shut down something you don't like.

                            you get to decide what and where it happens, and only when you want to add your .02 ?

                            i don't think so, and neither do other people,....... who are obviously interested in whats going on based on the thread view count. 

                             this happened before when i was at LP.   all i do is state my opinion about the subject matter, and because i become "narrow" about the challenging aspects of a mans life vs the claims of Christ,  the whiners come out in an attempt to silence what they don't wanna hear.

                            you have no justification for coming at me this way, because this is a lottery forum that has a ton of people "of faith".  and whats in here is obviously important to them,  even in the back and forth of this thread.

                            the rules of engagement are still the same four after all these years.......if you don't like what you read,  then don't.

                            and certainly don't think that you can comment, and not expect some rebuttals in return

                            whats telling about your "mission" in your recent comments to me,  is your admission (and disdain) for your wife being a "pentecostal".   you know this as well as me,  that some  pentecostals are the ones wrapped up in that "prosperity doctrine", and you know what i said about it is true......that it is a scam that rips money of desperate people.  what's "telling", is you haven't said squat to DD about him being in here "talking about God".   you haven't,  because what he says doesn't challenge you like i did,  and thats what really bothers you.

                            (1) go play over in another forum / thread if you encounter something you aren't "interested in"

                            (2) don't engage people, and then demand that no one can re-engage you.    that's arrogance

                            (3) don't pretend to think you are going to undermine what i say,  just because you don't like it.  "vision" isn't a card carrying member of door mat Christianity, remember?       i will defend what is right (whatever that amounts to, at that time).  everytime

                            (4) no...... i don't believe in praying for a "lottery win" (per se).   but i do realize it is an avenue that God can possibly choose in a persons life,  in order to accomplish certain aspects of His will,  thru that persons life, and not just to make someone "wealthy".   more importantly,  is to stress the importance of Going to God about such matters,  realizing He has foreknowledge on what is best for us,  so that we don't chase things that aren't meant to happen in the first place.  sometimes a person doesn't really know,  but they feel compelled to play, and they "test-drive" that possibility.  hopefully, if they get in that place where they know they are not supposed to- they stop.  likewise,  one never puts thier "hope & trust" in a lottery win,  even if it were to happen. 

                            (5) on your last statement on what you think happens.......i am good with that.  it's your life four,  not mine. 

                            no man should base their eternity on a "guess",  instead of on historical fact,  but it's your life

                            (6) ever witnessed me attempting to shut anyone down that i don't agree with?  .......and you never will

                            ask yourself why that is...

                              visiondude's avatar - eye3logo
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                              May 20, 2002
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                              Posted: June 29, 2010, 3:20 am - IP Logged
                              My name is not John no need to put my real name on here. Will you admit to being Pentecostal. I admitted to being Catholic. My wife is Pentecostal. It doesn't wash with me because Pentecostals think they are the chosen ones. The are pushy almost to the point of being embattled never wavering to any one else's beliefs because they think  the word of god belongs to them. 
                               
                              I'm not going after anybody I posted a post to the board you replied to those posts several times and i replied back in kind. I don't agree with anyone about religion except the Catholic's. But i am willing to listen to the different religious groups discuss what they perceive to be the truth and the true God.
                               
                              What's never going to change is i don't think people should discuss god or politics on a forum that isn't about the subject matter there are hundreds of forums for religion and politics and just like you don't mix bars and alcohol with politics or religion because it can lead to bad blood between the persons involved. Religion has it's place and i think a site about lottery and gambling in general shouldn't have posts about religion or politics.
                               
                              All the banter between you, me, And DD is thread drift it has nothing to do with the topicPraying
                               
                               Do you believe in praying?.
                              Moreover the implied intent was  Do you believe in praying for a lottery win.
                               
                               Otherwise it should have been a blog topic.
                               
                              I gonna put this a plane and as simple as I can when you die if you have a good spirit and soul then your spirit will dwell with the other good spirits, if you have a bad spirit your spirit will dwell with other bad spirits, If you die and your spirit is indifferent then your spirit will dwell with other indifferent spirits. Some people call it heaven, hell, and purgatory. 
                               
                              But since Jesus died on the cross for all mans sins shouldn't we all be going to heaven.
                               
                              And i wrote this offline before Joker posted what he did.

                              i forgot to address this from four4me,  when he stated......

                              "But since Jesus died on the cross for all mans sins shouldn't we all be going to heaven".

                              no.  just the ones that accept the free gift. 

                              you can't have,  what you constantly reject. 

                              even you realize that

                              VISION

                                          "i am .........."meant to"       

                              P.S.,  that RJoH  is a stand up guy.  thanks,  vision

                                       until further notice,  it's  france everyday

                                 
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