Welcome Guest
You last visited December 7, 2016, 9:19 am
All times shown are
Eastern Time (GMT-5:00)

# Are pre-draws corrupting your lottery strategy ?

Topic closed. 357 replies. Last post 5 years ago by Lucky Loser.

 Page 12 of 24
The Quantum Master
West Concord, MN
United States
Member #21
December 7, 2001
3675 Posts
Offline
 Posted: January 8, 2012, 1:07 pm - IP Logged

The input comes in three types: pre-draw, official draw, and in some cases, post-draw. As it relates to this topic, the pre-draw and/or official draw are our input. This leaves us with two ways of using the input: a strategy based on official draws alone, and a strategy based on pre-draws and official draws together. From what we've read, the problem in our strategy arises from the fact that our winning numbers are coming up in the pre-draw more often.

Now that we have isolated the cause and effect in general, we need to change the partial control into total control. Since the lottery would be very reluctant to give us their machines for testing, we'll have to setup a neutral test that we can use to examine the two different ways of strategy, with and without pre-draw. This is so we can determine if the pre-draw by itself has any relationship to our strategy or does it show something else is influencing the strategy.

Presented 'AS IS' and for Entertainment Purposes Only.
Any gain or loss is your responsibility.

Order is a Subset of Chaos
Knowledge is Beyond Belief
Wisdom is Not Censored
Douglas Paul Smallish
Jehocifer

Stone Mountain*Georgia
United States
Member #828
November 2, 2002
10491 Posts
Offline
 Posted: January 8, 2012, 1:23 pm - IP Logged

Crow..... It is not missing data.    If actual data is missing from something "offical" ....it's bad of course.  Duh... pre is not official.

Crow is the only one calling it "missing data."     It is not missing data from the normal game rules.  Normal is a game with 365 draws per year ......not 400 or 500 draws.  More than that is a different game. Nothing else matters on the record........unless we say it does and we invent another type game altogether.....but they still have to be agreed to up front.... and be offical draws that are actually counted on the record.

============================================================================================

Sadly, good members are trying to be gentleman and use logic and  facts not just smears.  It's sad to see our folks like Jade ..Ricky..etc. and so many other very nice, very bright people..... kind and sharing their time and talents here at LP over the years .......gifted teachers, helpers ...and developers being verbally abused.

Crow and his one comedy relief person are ignoring simple logic  ...... The only ideas or contribution by which we can judge Crow and his logic is his one single idea .......and his one chart with the bad math in it. We disagree with the MATH.

This chart idea is the only thing he has ever offered up on lottery post in the way of a factual statistic. The only thing to go by.

If he still insist his idea  concerning his static chart figures are still correct regarding the bad math ......then we must question that persons IDEAs on math as well as their opinion on  .....college level statistics.

He has posted that chart in many State's games several times. It is a static chart of odds not STATE specific. Why should we take opinion from someone on statistics .......that will not admit simple errors ......or even use grammar school grade math.  It's not correct math and he will not even admit to the obvious things.  He tried to morph that math toward one state but even that was wrong.....but thats not the same one he's used everywhere on many games.

Here is the static chart idea .....corrected.

Mostly to All even and All odd singles is 72% of the chart .....not 75% in his chart . Half of 75% is 37.5% yes......but that isn't right in P3.  Actually, the correct number of singles is 72% then the correct math is  36% ....not 37.5 %!

......and Crow worries about a few pre-draws effecting his results? LOL  Worry about bad math. It  does a lot more damage to his results than pre- draws .

Next .... your simple math chart shows the 10 all odd numbers hit rate is every 1/10 .....that's not correct either.....it's actually16.66666

Plus..... trying to include pre-draws into the game changes the game rules and all the number expectations.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My game only has  365 "OFFICAL"draws a year ...and I base all the math on those  official number statistics..... and those game rules. I could include  Mid and Eve together..... but that just doubles everything....and that is fine. They are  "official" game draw results. That's anyone's choice ,,, and adjustments can be made accordingly. Just as long as it is consistent official draws.

Midday draws are bad old Pre-draws too I guess.....but our official game still only has 365 official draws. We could include all 60 official state draws into ONE game if we choose....... or treat them as missing data ...LOL

He calls it "missing data" .....and that's wrong. No one else calls it missing.

If the state cheats and only drew 360 draws in our 365 game ...then, it's missing. LOL

Our game has 365 draws a year....  if Crow wants to include 3 additional pre-draws a day along with the "official draw"...fine.

...3+1 = 4 x 365 =1,460 draws a year.  Sure if he wants to play a game with 1,460 draws a year in it....let him. Then he is missing his data......but that's his game.

Our game isnt missing anything.  The "official version"  ....and "official rules" of the game are just fine...

Except for those gross low ball  payouts \$\$\$ LOL

The only real failure .....is the failure to try.

Luck is a very rare thing....... Odds not so much.

Odds never change .....but probability does.

Win d

Dallas, Texas
United States
Member #4549
May 2, 2004
1691 Posts
Offline
 Posted: January 8, 2012, 1:29 pm - IP Logged

Youre just another troll stating an opinion on something you know nothing about .

Ill start a thread on quantum entanglement and then you can jump right on in and give us some of your wise counsel on that ......... ok ?

Heh! You know nothing about me. Hi pot!

Got a better idea. Start on RANDOM SAMPLING.

NASHVILLE, TENN
United States
Member #33372
February 20, 2006
1044 Posts
Offline
 Posted: January 8, 2012, 1:32 pm - IP Logged

After reviewing the banter back and forth of both interesting and insulting opinions, we enjoyed every word. We need to go back to the original question and understand what the question is asking and what answer it is seeking. The question, "Are pre-draws corrupting your lottery strategy?", has three parts we can examine: pre-draws, your lottery strategy, and corrupting. Pre-draw is obvious as it relates to the pre-draw tests before each official drawing. Your lottery strategy tells us that some form a selection process is used to derive a playable set of numbers for a given official draw. Finally, there is corrupting and its interpretation is where we think the understanding begins to diverge.

Based on the replies we see and our own understanding, corrupting is being interpreted in a few ways. First, it could imply the pre-draws by themselves influence or alter the outcome of the official draw. Second, it could imply the pre-draws are being used to influence or alter the outcome of the official draw. Third, it could imply the lack of pre-draw data has an influence on your lottery picking strategy. Fourth, it could imply just plain old corruption; in that the lottery uses the pre-draw numbers to fix the drawing so anyone playing their own numbers can't win by picking whatever pre-draw fits the least number of matching self picked numbers.

The first and third interpretations seem to be the most prevalent points of view. In the first interpretation, under honest and ideal conditions, the pre-draws should not influence the official draws. However, uncertainty might suggest that sampling has some affect on the next sample. This is the underlying reason why many of us analyze draw data. If there were no pre-draw, how do you select numbers? Some might say, "Well, I use the previous draws." OK, so you use previous draws, meaning there is some connection between the previous and the next. Usually this would be to see if certain patterns are happening, Or, if something is due, overdue, hot, cold, what have you. But aren't previous draws really another form of pre-draw? Previous or pre, to occur before something else, hence, PREvious draw or pre-draw. This leads to the third interpretation and why it might be important in knowing the pre-draw data. There may be some information that could be used just like the previous draws that are used by most everyone else. However, it should be noted that under honest and ideal conditions, the previous draw or pre-draw should not influence the official draws. But if pre-draws and previous draws have equal validity, then we should also ask the question, with equal validity, "Are previous draws corrupting your lottery strategy?"

Moving on to the second and fourth interpretations; both of which have very serious implications beyond the original question. In some of the replies, there is a perception the pre-draws are used as means of thwarting any strategy someone may have come up with. Yes, the possibility does exist that pre-draws are used in this way. How we go about answering this can be partially handle between Lottery Posts members. But, it's important to understand, the other part must be directed at the Lottery and Lottery Officials. We're only going to get part of the answer between each of us; this has to be directed to the other parties involved, The Lottery. Without that, everyone here is going to be in a round and round fashion, beating each other over the head with stats, figures, opinions, and occasional tangential thoughts askew.

Jade.  Butt out, man.  You are making too much common sense.  Doing this will kill this thread and I, for one, am enjoying the kiddie antics; espcially the name calling.  This site was getting boring.  We need this thread to keep the adrenilin going.

The Quantum Master
West Concord, MN
United States
Member #21
December 7, 2001
3675 Posts
Offline
 Posted: January 8, 2012, 1:41 pm - IP Logged

Now that we have isolated the cause and effect in general, we need to change the partial control into total control. Since the lottery would be very reluctant to give us their machines for testing, we'll have to setup a neutral test that we can use to examine the two different ways of strategy, with and without pre-draw. This is so we can determine if the pre-draw by itself has any relationship to our strategy or does it show something else is influencing the strategy.

From previous posts, we see this relates to Pick 3 drawings. Our setup will relate to that kind of lottery. However, this will be generalized enough that you should be able to play the Mathematical, Combinatorial, Permutation Ho-down with some other kind of lottery.

The set of draws without pre-draws will be {A1, A2, A3, ...}.

The set of draws with pre-draws will be {{P(1,1), P(1,2), P(1,3), ...}, B1, {P(2,1), P(2,2), P(2,3), ...}, B2, {P(3,1), P(3,2), P(3,3), ...}, B3, ...}

To be valid draws and pre-draws, any of the variables can be any randomly selected number for a the given kind of lottery.

The set of played combos will be {C1, C2, C3, ...}

Since C1, C2, C3, ... can be anything, it can be both strategies.

Presented 'AS IS' and for Entertainment Purposes Only.
Any gain or loss is your responsibility.

Order is a Subset of Chaos
Knowledge is Beyond Belief
Wisdom is Not Censored
Douglas Paul Smallish
Jehocifer

The Quantum Master
West Concord, MN
United States
Member #21
December 7, 2001
3675 Posts
Offline
 Posted: January 8, 2012, 1:42 pm - IP Logged

Jade.  Butt out, man.  You are making too much common sense.  Doing this will kill this thread and I, for one, am enjoying the kiddie antics; espcially the name calling.  This site was getting boring.  We need this thread to keep the adrenilin going.

No.

Presented 'AS IS' and for Entertainment Purposes Only.
Any gain or loss is your responsibility.

Order is a Subset of Chaos
Knowledge is Beyond Belief
Wisdom is Not Censored
Douglas Paul Smallish
Jehocifer

The Quantum Master
West Concord, MN
United States
Member #21
December 7, 2001
3675 Posts
Offline
 Posted: January 8, 2012, 1:48 pm - IP Logged

Lunch time.

Look over what we have so far.

If you have an unkind word to say, Please, by all means, keep telling us that.

We love it.

Presented 'AS IS' and for Entertainment Purposes Only.
Any gain or loss is your responsibility.

Order is a Subset of Chaos
Knowledge is Beyond Belief
Wisdom is Not Censored
Douglas Paul Smallish
Jehocifer

Guest

Member #0
January 1, 2000
0 Posts
Offline
 Posted: January 8, 2012, 2:18 pm - IP Logged

Lunch time.

Look over what we have so far.

If you have an unkind word to say, Please, by all means, keep telling us that.

We love it.

who's we?

are you going over this with a committee?

The Quantum Master
West Concord, MN
United States
Member #21
December 7, 2001
3675 Posts
Offline
 Posted: January 8, 2012, 4:24 pm - IP Logged

who's we?

are you going over this with a committee?

we have a disconnect with one of our other selves.

who are we?

ask that a few more times and often the solution that eludes us, presents itself very eloquently.

committee, hmm, we've seen that spelled different ways before: association, union, congregation, angry mob.

but, in the end, it's just, us.

Presented 'AS IS' and for Entertainment Purposes Only.
Any gain or loss is your responsibility.

Order is a Subset of Chaos
Knowledge is Beyond Belief
Wisdom is Not Censored
Douglas Paul Smallish
Jehocifer

United States
Member #69530
January 11, 2009
7803 Posts
Offline
 Posted: January 8, 2012, 4:57 pm - IP Logged

Crow..... It is not missing data.    If actual data is missing from something "offical" ....it's bad of course.  Duh... pre is not official.

Crow is the only one calling it "missing data."     It is not missing data from the normal game rules.  Normal is a game with 365 draws per year ......not 400 or 500 draws.  More than that is a different game. Nothing else matters on the record........unless we say it does and we invent another type game altogether.....but they still have to be agreed to up front.... and be offical draws that are actually counted on the record.

============================================================================================

Sadly, good members are trying to be gentleman and use logic and  facts not just smears.  It's sad to see our folks like Jade ..Ricky..etc. and so many other very nice, very bright people..... kind and sharing their time and talents here at LP over the years .......gifted teachers, helpers ...and developers being verbally abused.

Crow and his one comedy relief person are ignoring simple logic  ...... The only ideas or contribution by which we can judge Crow and his logic is his one single idea .......and his one chart with the bad math in it. We disagree with the MATH.

This chart idea is the only thing he has ever offered up on lottery post in the way of a factual statistic. The only thing to go by.

If he still insist his idea  concerning his static chart figures are still correct regarding the bad math ......then we must question that persons IDEAs on math as well as their opinion on  .....college level statistics.

He has posted that chart in many State's games several times. It is a static chart of odds not STATE specific. Why should we take opinion from someone on statistics .......that will not admit simple errors ......or even use grammar school grade math.  It's not correct math and he will not even admit to the obvious things.  He tried to morph that math toward one state but even that was wrong.....but thats not the same one he's used everywhere on many games.

Here is the static chart idea .....corrected.

Mostly to All even and All odd singles is 72% of the chart .....not 75% in his chart . Half of 75% is 37.5% yes......but that isn't right in P3.  Actually, the correct number of singles is 72% then the correct math is  36% ....not 37.5 %!

......and Crow worries about a few pre-draws effecting his results? LOL  Worry about bad math. It  does a lot more damage to his results than pre- draws .

Next .... your simple math chart shows the 10 all odd numbers hit rate is every 1/10 .....that's not correct either.....it's actually16.66666

Plus..... trying to include pre-draws into the game changes the game rules and all the number expectations.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My game only has  365 "OFFICAL"draws a year ...and I base all the math on those  official number statistics..... and those game rules. I could include  Mid and Eve together..... but that just doubles everything....and that is fine. They are  "official" game draw results. That's anyone's choice ,,, and adjustments can be made accordingly. Just as long as it is consistent official draws.

Midday draws are bad old Pre-draws too I guess.....but our official game still only has 365 official draws. We could include all 60 official state draws into ONE game if we choose....... or treat them as missing data ...LOL

He calls it "missing data" .....and that's wrong. No one else calls it missing.

If the state cheats and only drew 360 draws in our 365 game ...then, it's missing. LOL

Our game has 365 draws a year....  if Crow wants to include 3 additional pre-draws a day along with the "official draw"...fine.

...3+1 = 4 x 365 =1,460 draws a year.  Sure if he wants to play a game with 1,460 draws a year in it....let him. Then he is missing his data......but that's his game.

Our game isnt missing anything.  The "official version"  ....and "official rules" of the game are just fine...

Except for those gross low ball  payouts \$\$\$ LOL

AH ah ah youre forgetting something in your idiotic attempt at trying to discredit me.

the actual percentage actually slides in relationship to the amount of draws are you aware of that .... go back and see for yourself with the list i posted for the NC DRAWS...!!

75 % is still an accurate figure and its waaay more accurate than some missing structure available in lot soft pro.

Now, get lost troll and go plug someone else's software that doesnt work .

United States
Member #69530
January 11, 2009
7803 Posts
Offline
 Posted: January 8, 2012, 5:03 pm - IP Logged

I hate to rain on everybody's parade here but have most of you just plain forgotten these are ping pong balls with air blowing them around in a machine & then 3 seperate numbers pop out in p3 or whichever game you're playing.

I might not come close to being as smart as most of you sound like you are but even I can understand that there is no way we are going to be able to come up with a system to beat the odds in pick 3.

I don't worry about pre-draws at all but I do look at the actual past numbers that have fallen in P3 & then that is a big guess right there.  It does seem odd that when you go back in years past you can see patterns of several numbers falling in a group more than once but there are only 10 numbers we are dealing with here...0 to 9, so quite naturally there are going to be some patterns that fall from those 10 numbers together sometimes.

The best thing to do is try not to analyze the game too much or worry about pre-draws etc, or it will drive you crazy!

Just try to have fun playing!

Ok ok youre right ... the lotteries are always honest its just the players who are the villians.

I think ill just give all my money freely away to them and maybe even ask for absolution.

The irony is where the antagonism truly lys is it not, vergie ?

Stone Mountain*Georgia
United States
Member #828
November 2, 2002
10491 Posts
Offline
 Posted: January 8, 2012, 6:34 pm - IP Logged

Ok ok youre right ... the lotteries are always honest its just the players who are the villians.

I think ill just give all my money freely away to them and maybe even ask for absolution.

The irony is where the antagonism truly lys is it not, vergie ?

crow...This is the generic chart you spit out at every chance .....in every state. This is not the NC draw you tried to change to fit your mistakes just yesterday.

This is the chart you have been passing off no matter what the state or draws.  These are always the same figures no matter what state you have stuck it into.

YOUR chart and figures are below.....  and I am not criticizing you crow..... no ....just your idea of what correct thinking is.   LOL

odd or even pair

(13x-15x-17x-19x-35x-37x-39x-57x-59x-79x)-------(37.5%)  Wrong !...correct answer is 36%

(02x-04x-06x-08x-24x-26x-28x-46x-48x-68x)-------(37.5%)   Wrong ..."          "    "

LHH/LLH --->(37.5%)

(135-137-139-157-159-179-357-359-379-579)---> 1/10 draws  Wrong... every 16.6666 draws.

(024-026-028-046-048-246-248-468-682-680)---> 1/10 draws   Wrong ...."    "       "

This isn't software crow...... this is just good old fashion arithmetic.

The only real failure .....is the failure to try.

Luck is a very rare thing....... Odds not so much.

Odds never change .....but probability does.

Win d

Stone Mountain*Georgia
United States
Member #828
November 2, 2002
10491 Posts
Offline
 Posted: January 8, 2012, 6:58 pm - IP Logged

crow why don't you at least sign up for Todd's INSPECTCOR-3 software? I don't think you will find anything wrong with that software  ......it's very good at those missing number groups ....and missing structures as well. Get that premium membership crow and all those software tools you will really benefit from. Todd's a great software developer too and I use it everyday.

See below ......72% not 75%       72 divided by 2 = 36%

 Number Types: Singles 720 100.0% 012 013 014 015 016 017 018 019 021 023 024 025 026 027 028 029 031 032 034 035 036 037 038 039 041 042 043 045 046 047 048 049 051 052 053 054 056 057 058 059 061 062 063 064 065 067 068 069 071 072 073 074 075 076 078 079 081 082 083 084 085 086 087 089 091 092 093 094 095 096 097 098 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 120 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 132 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 142 143 145 146 147 148 149 150 152 153 154 156 157 158 159 160 162 163 164 165 167 168 169 170 172 173 174 175 176 178 179 180 182 183 184 185 186 187 189 190 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 201 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 230 231 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 243 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 253 254 256 257 258 259 260 261 263 264 265 267 268 269 270 271 273 274 275 276 278 279 280 281 283 284 285 286 287 289 290 291 293 294 295 296 297 298 301 302 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 312 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 324 325 326 327 328 329 340 341 342 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 354 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 364 365 367 368 369 370 371 372 374 375 376 378 379 380 381 382 384 385 386 387 389 390 391 392 394 395 396 397 398 401 402 403 405 406 407 408 409 410 412 413 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 423 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 435 436 437 438 439 450 451 452 453 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 465 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 475 476 478 479 480 481 482 483 485 486 487 489 490 491 492 493 495 496 497 498 501 502 503 504 506 507 508 509 510 512 513 514 516 517 518 519 520 521 523 524 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 534 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 546 547 548 549 560 561 562 563 564 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 576 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 586 587 589 590 591 592 593 594 596 597 598 601 602 603 604 605 607 608 609 610 612 613 614 615 617 618 619 620 621 623 624 625 627 628 629 630 631 632 634 635 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 645 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 657 658 659 670 671 672 673 674 675 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 687 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 697 698 701 702 703 704 705 706 708 709 710 712 713 714 715 716 718 719 720 721 723 724 725 726 728 729 730 731 732 734 735 736 738 739 740 741 742 743 745 746 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 756 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 768 769 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 798 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 809 810 812 813 814 815 816 817 819 820 821 823 824 825 826 827 829 830 831 832 834 835 836 837 839 840 841 842 843 845 846 847 849 850 851 852 853 854 856 857 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 867 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 879 890 891 892 893 894 895 896 897 901 902 903 904 905 906 907 908 910 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 920 921 923 924 925 926 927 928 930 931 932 934 935 936 937 938 940 941 942 943 945 946 947 948 950 951 952 953 954 956 957 958 960 961 962 963 964 965 967 968 970 971 972 973 974 975 976 978 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987

The only real failure .....is the failure to try.

Luck is a very rare thing....... Odds not so much.

Odds never change .....but probability does.

Win d

Switching between Fairfax, VA and Belgium
Belgium
Member #19287
July 29, 2005
2254 Posts
Offline
 Posted: January 8, 2012, 7:54 pm - IP Logged

AH ah ah youre forgetting something in your idiotic attempt at trying to discredit me.

the actual percentage actually slides in relationship to the amount of draws are you aware of that .... go back and see for yourself with the list i posted for the NC DRAWS...!!

75 % is still an accurate figure and its waaay more accurate than some missing structure available in lot soft pro.

Now, get lost troll and go plug someone else's software that doesnt work .

Can't remember the day someone made a fool of himself the way you do. This is becoming epic.

Is my post to difficult to respond to, let alone comprehend?I guess me having two sons of 6 and 9 puts me in a position where i can even explain it in such a way you might be able to understand. But i thought wrong, i have lost the touch of explaining to 3 year olds.

Like i wrote before, you and your fellow 'somer' buddy have not much else to do than call names and call people trolls.

Facts! It's as simple as that. Just post facts, then the debat has a meaning and can continue. But it appears all you can post is rubbish, heck, you don't even understand the basics of mathematics so what's the point in trying to answer to your, let's call it, "questions" because we'd stay well mannered.

The world is turning, pick3 games are played, and people put money on it, and here you come into the picture, calling other people trolls, well, WOW, just WOW, bravo, you are a real hero.

Post facts, but it seems the answer to that such a second grade question is way out of your league so why don't you, and your alter ego "somer" (track IP LOL) just put your time and effort there where it belongs, <snip> (and i have snipped myself here , because i don't argue the fact that you most likely have a degree in mathematics, ... for 4 year olds... )

I am willing to spent time and effort into comments of people who are serious.

Like i asked before, do something real basic. Post a list of your (free) contributions. Then we might 'talk' again.
then again, i have this strange feeling you will not post such a list, of all the things you have contributed, and i don't need te explain why, because everyone knows... one big 0

lasas3

An onion a day keeps everyone away!!!

NASHVILLE, TENN
United States
Member #33372
February 20, 2006
1044 Posts
Offline
 Posted: January 8, 2012, 8:13 pm - IP Logged

Lunch time.

Look over what we have so far.

If you have an unkind word to say, Please, by all means, keep telling us that.

We love it.

I love it too.  OK, so don't butt out.  After all, it is your call.  I just hate to see all the name calling end.

 Page 12 of 24