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Are pre-draws corrupting your lottery strategy ?

Topic closed. 357 replies. Last post 5 years ago by Lucky Loser.

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RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
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Posted: January 9, 2012, 11:59 am - IP Logged

Thanks boney, and youre right.

I have been a little tough on some of these guys and have went over the line .

However my quest is still the same and that is to arrive at the truth as to whether pre-draws effect the statistics.

Keep in mind also that my stance on the issues has not been compromised simply because im selling a system

Thanks bro and thank you also for your wise words

Keep in mind also that my stance on the issues has not been compromised simply because im selling a system

If you had explained that you were talking about a particular program designed to use data that was not available before the drawings results were posted, your position would have been more understandable.  But then the question would be "Why design such a program?".

 * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
   
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    time*treat's avatar - radar

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    Posted: January 9, 2012, 12:37 pm - IP Logged

    If you totally ignore the pre-draws - whether by choice or by force - aren't any of you getting a solid pattern from what you are able to see and 

    consider?

    Is it just bothersome to find that a number that 'should have come' came in a pre-draw and not in the actual draw? Or is it really necessary to

    have access to and include pre-draw data into whatever program you use or system you run your info through? I really don't think it is.

    I don't know why someone isn't doing it instead of just guessing it might change things. Aren't NC pre-draw results available...why don't you

    try to include them in whatever system you're using to see if they matter?

    I'd be pulling my hair out if I had 6 sets of pre-draw results to consider everytime I sit down and try and do what I do for each draw. I think I'm

    better off not thinking about them at all.

    If you totally ignore the pre-draws - whether by choice or by force - aren't any of you getting a solid pattern from what you are able to see and consider? Yes, and with a good system, either approach will work just fine*.

    Is it just bothersome to find that a number that 'should have come' came in a pre-draw and not in the actual draw?
    Like the missing #28, in powerball? It was in the pre-draws, all along. LOL

    Or is it really necessary to have access to and include pre-draw data into whatever program you use or system you run your info through? I really don't think it is. You're correct, but some folks can infer a thing, some gotta learn by doing ... like that whole 'fork / electric outlet' lesson. Scared

    I don't know why someone isn't doing it instead of just guessing it might change things.
    Because "doing" takes actual effort (some of us have done this test on a few games -- that's how we know either approach will work*). Snarking at each other is far easier, and far more entertaining. Clown

    In neo-conned Amerika, bank robs you.
    Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a govnoment agency.

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      Posted: January 9, 2012, 2:15 pm - IP Logged

      It's nice to read that anyone who works for a living is a joke to you... Roll Eyes

      nice trying to twist the context of what i write. for such a lottery math genius, you should have your own island by now.

        dr65's avatar - black panther.jpg
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        Posted: January 9, 2012, 3:53 pm - IP Logged

        If you totally ignore the pre-draws - whether by choice or by force - aren't any of you getting a solid pattern from what you are able to see and consider? Yes, and with a good system, either approach will work just fine*.

        Is it just bothersome to find that a number that 'should have come' came in a pre-draw and not in the actual draw?
        Like the missing #28, in powerball? It was in the pre-draws, all along. LOL

        Or is it really necessary to have access to and include pre-draw data into whatever program you use or system you run your info through? I really don't think it is. You're correct, but some folks can infer a thing, some gotta learn by doing ... like that whole 'fork / electric outlet' lesson. Scared

        I don't know why someone isn't doing it instead of just guessing it might change things.
        Because "doing" takes actual effort (some of us have done this test on a few games -- that's how we know either approach will work*). Snarking at each other is far easier, and far more entertaining. Clown

        I agree time*treat with your statement on the effort part of things especially. I am tired just thinking of how much I'd have to do to consider

        more results on top of official results.


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          Posted: January 9, 2012, 3:58 pm - IP Logged

          Keep in mind also that my stance on the issues has not been compromised simply because im selling a system

          If you had explained that you were talking about a particular program designed to use data that was not available before the drawings results were posted, your position would have been more understandable.  But then the question would be "Why design such a program?".

          RJ, i just wish all lotteries would release the pre-draw before the live draws but they wont because this gives them an edge.

          Why play a missing structure when it has hit in the pre-draws ?

          Lets take the combinations 444 for example .... this combinations was recently hit in the NC pre-draws so knowing that means it isnt a missing structure any longer as pick3 software would have it listed as.

          I personally dont sell pick3 software programs although i do test them and test them alot.

          My position will always remain unbiased.

            LANTERN's avatar - kilroy 28_173_reasonably_small.jpg
            Tx
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            Posted: January 9, 2012, 4:37 pm - IP Logged

            RJ, i just wish all lotteries would release the pre-draw before the live draws but they wont because this gives them an edge.

            Why play a missing structure when it has hit in the pre-draws ?

            Lets take the combinations 444 for example .... this combinations was recently hit in the NC pre-draws so knowing that means it isnt a missing structure any longer as pick3 software would have it listed as.

            I personally dont sell pick3 software programs although i do test them and test them alot.

            My position will always remain unbiased.

            The use of pre-draws data would make the NEXT winning number prediction more accurate and the pre-draws being FRESH data would better show the BIAS or TRENDS of the ballsets and machines, but as what connects events is statistics and as trying to use pre-draws data is not too practical or possible sometimes, it is best to just ignore them, easier and less bothersome, but those who predict just for the very next draw can or could use pre-draws data, those who try to predict for more than one future draw ahead, should not in anyway try to use pre-draws data as their predicted numbers might come out on the pre-draws.

            I myself have never yet used pre-draws data, a person should try to simplify things as much as possible, also use as few past draws as possible, to update past draws databases everyday is a lot of trouble, it is easier to just find and look at the last few past draws and make your predictions from those, but it all depends on your prediction method, if you use softwares as I had sometimes before then the software might need a lot of past draws data in order to give what you need.

            Statistics is what connects events as events might not otherwise be related, might or might not be, some say yes and others say no.

            Things are relative.

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              JAP69's avatar - alas
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              Posted: January 9, 2012, 5:09 pm - IP Logged

              When are pre draws done? A couple hours or one hour or a half hour before the draw. Does not give you much time to figure out your plays in time to get to the store.

              They go thru the process of inspecting and weighing each and every ball before the pre draw I would gather.

              All lottery sytems are wether pencil and paper or software stats is a means to create the amount of plays you want to wager on.

              I have stopped at the store on my way home from somewhere and just pulled some numbers at random out of my head and on occasion had a winner.

              MAGA

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                Posted: January 9, 2012, 5:18 pm - IP Logged

                Crow,

                I really understand your point of view. You call pre-draws "missing data structures". Indulge me for a moment. What if actual draws contain all "missing data structures"? I contend that they do, and they are already imbedded in the actual draws. To use a crude and simple analogy:

                A ping pong ball is strongly thrown down a really long road and travels from Points A to B, and C in 7 hours..

                Point A = a ball begins rolling on clean road at 12:00 PM : Represents an actual lottery draw

                Point B = has a messy oil slick: Represents the 3:00 PM pre-draw

                Point C = Dead end stop: Represents the next actual  7:00 PM draw

                 

                Lets begin,

                I see the ball begins at A.

                I don't see the ball pass at B.

                I see it stops at C

                I take a look at the ball at Point C and see the HISTORY of what happend to the ball when I wasn't watching it. There are spots of oil on the ball. Apparently an imprint of what happend to the ball in the PAST at Point B is on the ball. Even though I didn't actually see what happened in the past at B, its markings are now visible at Point C.

                Granted, this is a crude analogy, but its simplicity is at the heart of the missing data issue. Data may not be missing. Just Like we have the knowledge of the car having picked up oil at Point B, because we see it at Point C, the present actual draw may already contain the history of imbedded past draws - actual draws and pre-draws. In essence, the actual draw looks the way it does, because all past draws(actual and pre) have been taken into account, and when the DOORWAY or WINDOW IN TIME is opened at a Particular Time of a drawing, all of the past draw's info, seen and unseen, rolls and pops into the NOW. This means that ALL NUMBERS MODIFY EACH OTHER in varying degrees at all times. So you can possibly work with any actual draws you want, see how they modify each other, and then predict what the next draw will be. One can especially do this, because just as numbers contain imbedded info about the past, they implicitly contain imbedded info about the future. As a matter of fact, one can even take a couple of draws and telescopically project decent guesses as to what will come out 20 days in the future...Of course the closer you get to that date, the numbers will better modify each other and one can microscopically be more exact. But from the little research I've done, its seems that all information is contained in the now. Pardon the mystical pronouncement, but I wouldn't even bring it onto this thread if it didn't have a tangible corollary.

                I explained in a past thread how our systems and they way we look at our results through the biased lens of our talents, education, prejudices, and etc..., favorably and unfavorably contract and expand how numbers show themselves and how we  then interpret what we see. These numbers do their best to give you the best, and are amendable to our machinatons, but we invariably get in the way. So Crow, maybe its all there, its just very hard to see, mainly because we're limited by what we don't know, and we can't imagine what that could be. Good luck to you and...

                Happy Explorations!

                Kola

                Legend says that The Craggy One was once asked about the Lottery Circle and the aged Lottery LoreKeeper whispered in his gravelly eloquence,"It is known among our kind that 2 successive draws are in reality the 2 center-points of 2 intersecting circles that share a common radius - a Root Center. This Vesica Piscis is the creative womb for all numbers, the Still Point from which two draws will unite & a new one is born. This "perfect" space is a wormhole through Time(Change). Master its proportions & your numerical predictions will not falter". 

                  Avatar
                  Kentucky
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                  Posted: January 9, 2012, 5:28 pm - IP Logged

                  I skipped through what happened between pages 5 and 13 but seeing Crow post this....

                   


                  "The topic is about pre-draws effecting results in correlating statistical data.

                  The only obvious honest answer is that it does and to keep on denying that means that you lack basic honesty and what is even worse is having your troll friends post needless banter that isnt even related to the subject matter at hand."


                  Is ridiculous.  The only "obvious answer is that it does"????  Crow, you'r a friend at LP but don't be so arrogant.  To me, it's obvious that a pre draw cannot affect the odds of the results (they obviously affect what the result is, but I don't see that as a relevant since you'll never know what the result is until you see it.)

                   

                  Disagree if you want.  After studying Statistics and the mathemetics of Casino games, I can safely say that I don't think predraws have any negative affect players.  But don't start a thread like this, while being so ingrained in your views that you won't have a meaningful debate.

                   

                  Like I said I skipped a few pages, and didn't care to read them, and I've also seen way worse.  Don't let someone who diagrees with you, Crow, make you angry or anything.  People disagree.

                  "Is ridiculous.  The only "obvious answer is that it does"????"

                  Exactly, let's look at the effect of showing the results of the pre-draw test two hours before the real drawing. Will players exchange their tickets because their number was drawn in the test?

                  "After studying Statistics and the mathemetics of Casino games, I can safely say that I don't think predraws have any negative affect players."

                  The test would affect players deciding not to play a number or substantially lowering their bet because it was drawn in the test and then see it drawn during the real drawing. The state lotteries say the tests are conducted to insure a fair and honest random drawing but we're being told the test are "corrupting their data gathering", suggesting the state lotteries should give out the test information prior to the real drawing that could confuse other players. But either way, the odds of matching the number is still 999 to 1.

                  It's easy to understand why players use past drawing results to predict and play the next drawing, but why would anyone want to analyze the test drawings to predict the results of the next test?

                    RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
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                    Posted: January 9, 2012, 6:44 pm - IP Logged

                    RJ, i just wish all lotteries would release the pre-draw before the live draws but they wont because this gives them an edge.

                    Why play a missing structure when it has hit in the pre-draws ?

                    Lets take the combinations 444 for example .... this combinations was recently hit in the NC pre-draws so knowing that means it isnt a missing structure any longer as pick3 software would have it listed as.

                    I personally dont sell pick3 software programs although i do test them and test them alot.

                    My position will always remain unbiased.

                    I'm assuming pre-draw tests are done within an hour or two of the live drawings.  Some games like PowerBall don't sell tickets within an hour of their live drawings so that information couldn't be used even if you had it.

                    Lotteries only promise players a totally random (unpredictable) drawing with equipment that have been tested before the official drawings to assure them it's working correctly.

                     * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                       
                                 Evil Looking       

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                      Posted: January 9, 2012, 7:02 pm - IP Logged

                       crow...This is the generic chart you spit out at every chance .....in every state. This is not the NC draw you tried to change to fit your mistakes just yesterday. 

                       This is the chart you have been passing off no matter what the state or draws.  These are always the same figures no matter what state you have stuck it into. 

                       

                                YOUR chart and figures are below.....  and I am not criticizing you crow..... no ....just your idea of what correct thinking is.   LOL   

                         

                      odd or even pair

                      (13x-15x-17x-19x-35x-37x-39x-57x-59x-79x)-------(37.5%)  Wrong !...correct answer is 36% 

                      (02x-04x-06x-08x-24x-26x-28x-46x-48x-68x)-------(37.5%)   Wrong ..."          "    "

                      LHH/LLH --->(37.5%)

                      (135-137-139-157-159-179-357-359-379-579)---> 1/10 draws  Wrong... every 16.6666 draws.

                      (024-026-028-046-048-246-248-468-682-680)---> 1/10 draws   Wrong ...."    "       " 

                                          This isn't software crow...... this is just good old fashion arithmetic. 

                      At risk of being told I'm asking an idiotic question; don't odd and even pairs have the same number of combos as low and high pairs?

                      LHH and LLH have 125 combos each or together 25%. If they are including LHL, HLL, LHL, and HLL, all six represent 75% or 750 numbers. If it's just to play the 250 straight numbers, they're going against 3 to 1 odds to get even money. Why do they need to know the test drawings to determine probability?

                      I suppose their idea is to say "LHH/LLH good for all states" hoping nobody notices there are 750 numbers and/or create the illusion it's legal for U.S. residence to open foreign online betting accounts and get $900 to $1 playing any state lottery in the U.S. I can't play penny anti-poker online so I'm no longer buying the "all states" claims. 

                      I too don't understand the name calling because nobody has shown the usefulness of publishing the test results before the drawing. To me it's like saying they need them to take the last test result and "Follow TaxiJohn's rule go up or down.  Flip  6=9 `9=6".

                        Guru101's avatar - rw6jhh
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                        Posted: January 9, 2012, 7:30 pm - IP Logged

                        I don't think I explained very well why predraws don't affect a strategy/system for picking the official winning numbers for the next drawing. When someone comes up with a pattern or some other strategy for picking numbers, they are comparing an official winning numbers to the previous official winning numbers. This is exactly what their pattern/strategy is based on. From one set of official numbers to the next, their pattern/strategy applies. It doesn't matter that there are predraws. When it comes to that person's strategy, predraws don't exist.

                        Gonna win.Big Smile


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                          Posted: January 9, 2012, 7:49 pm - IP Logged

                          Perfectly done Guru. Wind spent a long time explaining the importance of the official draws and the exact time in space.

                          Anything else outside of that is a different game entirely.   

                            Vergie6's avatar - DSCN5541
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                            Posted: January 9, 2012, 9:16 pm - IP Logged

                            I don't think I explained very well why predraws don't affect a strategy/system for picking the official winning numbers for the next drawing. When someone comes up with a pattern or some other strategy for picking numbers, they are comparing an official winning numbers to the previous official winning numbers. This is exactly what their pattern/strategy is based on. From one set of official numbers to the next, their pattern/strategy applies. It doesn't matter that there are predraws. When it comes to that person's strategy, predraws don't exist.

                            I agree with you 100%!

                            That's the way I have always played & it's worked for me!

                              eddessaknight's avatar - nw paladin.jpg
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                              Posted: January 9, 2012, 9:17 pm - IP Logged

                              So, are pre-draws corrupting your lottery strategy ?

                              The answer has to be an over whelmingly yes...!!! most if not all the missing structures have hit in the pre-draws then what structure truly is "MISSING" ?

                              For an example take a look at the most recent pre-draw list that was posted in NC

                              It's all about intention, isn't it? Objectively speaking, why do gaming operators use countermeasures like ostensible pre-draw testing if the games were unbeatable? Anything that will throw off any number association, methodology or energy flow of the player, Sure in 10,000 games it all averages out but how about the next game you're waiting on?      

                                                                                                                                                                                                               Think about it.....recorded gaming history proves whenever we talk large money & in all forms of speculation including Wall St- big money attracts big scams/interference and becomes a cruel possibility (although not each & every time)

                              'When you own the _wheel, its no longer a even chance game ' -Damon Runyon (legendary gaming expert)

                              No offence, Crow. may error but he errors on the side of the angels Wink

                              EddessaKnight Note 

                                 
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